Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jul 17 2016 7:06pm

Yeah, Jay I'd be interested in your opinion on the frame as well.
Everything else I've seen from HPC up till this frame was rubbish, so I would be interested to hear more on what you think. :)

Specifically that rear swing arm and drop-out. Care to post some close up pics of it.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rix » Jul 17 2016 7:10pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:Yeah, Jay I'd be interested in your opinion on the frame as well.
Everything else I've seen from HPC up till this frame was rubbish, so I would be interested to hear more on what you think. :)

Specifically that rear swing arm and drop-out. Care to post some close up pics of it.

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Also what CD said. You seeing a trend here Jay, we want to hear what you think. :wink:

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jul 18 2016 12:15am

Thanks guys. Yeah Kep this one was a fairly pricey build, mainly because of the frame and suspension base. The owner had already put down a deposit on a full HPC bike then he came to me. I told him he was mad (for a 5kw bike it was going to cost he about $15,000 AUD landed!) so he ended up just getting the value of the deposit sent out (4k from memory, not sure if that wwas AUD or USD but it was just the frame and suspension)

OK here goes.
Disclaimer: I am heavily involved with FLX so that could be seen as a bias or conflict of interest. But at the same time I've owned and built or at least ridden nearly all of the current commercial and DIY platforms out there so I'm in a good position to make objective comparisons.

First impression - the frame is light! Of course I expected that being Aluminium. With the suspension fitted it was a similar weight to comparable bare steel frames at the lighter end of the spectrum. The CNC work on the swing arm is very nice. Fancy, and must contribute a chunk towards their 'well-above-the-competitors' asking price. By the time you add in powerful heavy motors and batteries though the initial lightness goes out the window. Overall you end up with a bike that’s maybe 40kg instead of 43…
I like the size of the frame - in the clone wars battle it has slimmer side profile than the raptor and vector/eeb/wingchingchung style. As I've said numerous times over the years I'm a big fan of a subtle side profile which is what I like so much about the beta. I tried to get qulbix to make a smaller raptor a year or 2 back and they weren't too interested, then recently came out with a "smaller" one (Q76) that looked exactly the same, just skinnier :lol: I think they missed the point, but oh well. I think the NYX fits into the same mid-sized category, along with the along with the FLX Alpha. If NYX made a smaller beta sized frame I'd be very interested. Would I buy the current one for weight savings ? No. Would I buy the HPC for the same reason ? No.

OK, so things I didn’t like.
The first thing that struck me was the dirty great weld right down the middle of the top-tube section of the bike.
It was like a bikini model with a giant botched C section scar. Or perhaps more relevant one from open heart surgery! There's also weld marks up on the flat parts of the neck section where the heat from the internal welds has come through and caused a bit of rippling. When I was building it my wife walked into the workshop and it was the first thing she commented on. IMO the big seam down the middle really detracts from what is an otherwise nice looking frame. It runs right to the headtube and due to it being quite risen it stops the small panel on the top of the neck section from sitting flat. What stops it sitting even more flat is the fact that only 2 of the 4 holes are tapped. Only 2 diagonal holes were threaded (nut welded underneath ? I didnt check too closely) The other 2 holes were just larger hollow holes. I guess I could have used nuts on the underside of those but then I would have had 2 different size and types of bolts holding it down, which would have annoyed me aesthetically. It was also the last thing I went to finish on the bike and I didn't want to have to pull out the wiring etc try find a solution. The result is only 2 bolts are holding down this panel - so it bulges up in the middle over the fat weld and is lifted up at each corner. It's not waterproof with the big wiring hole in the top anyway, but this makes it even less so.
hpc-3.jpg
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The top and side panels are also not what I was expecting. Initially they showed a 3D risen carbon cross type side cover which looked pretty cool. What shipped was plain flat black panels that I'm pretty sure were just fibreglass sheet. They looked awful and thankfully after raising this issue they sent out these high gloss carbon ones which look much nicer. The top panel is still the flat black FG sheet but it's not so noticeable. I suspect the high gloss covers will scratch easily with wear. They already had a few slight scratches in certain light right out of the box so that'll be a bummer if it's the case. The covers are a little bigger than they need to be (following the shape of the frame) and if I was designing it I would have made the carbon bit smaller. I'm nitpicking though now and I guess they were trying to make it a little different looking than the stealth bomber that it's obviously based on. I think having a bit more of margin around the covers like below looks better, but that's peronal opinion. When the customer came to pick it up he said "can these be painted orange too ?" Peasant. :lol:
HPC2-sides.jpg
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Other nitpicky things is the side covers could do with an extra bolt or 2. They have a thin foam gasket on the underside and there's bolts most of the way around to pull it in tight against the frame but there's a big stretch between the one in the front corner and the base of the seat support where there's no bolt. So it bulges out slightly here and you can see the foam between the frame and cover where you can't elsewhere. Again it's not a biggy but these are the little things that stood out. Green dots below is where it needs more screws. Again you can see the internal welds coming through
hpc-screws.jpg
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The steering is quite sharp, on the road test it was very quick to change directions. I dunno what the geometry is supposed to be but it feels more XC than DH. The turning circle is absolutely diabolical though. I nearly fell off it just crawling out of my garage out because it has so little movement in the steering. The new owner did the same when the threw a leg over it and then did that hopping side step shuffle one does in such circumstances. It's a combination of the fat head tube and neck and the boxxer forks. You've only got a few degrees of rotation and the bumpers are hitting the frame. Triple clamp forks in general DO cost you some steering maneuverability but the USD-8s on my alpha quite literally allow double the amount of movement. I told him he'd get used to it but after his 30km ride home on the road (where you think it'd be least noticeable) he said it was terrible and wanted to swap them out.

The other aspect of the bike I really didn't like was the back end. The ends of the swing arm are open and hollow, presumably for routing cables. The tail end is big and gaping (could do with a cap) but the other end is quite a small exit. OK for brake lines and gear shift cables but too small for fat motor cables. I guess HPC made them to run crystalytes with smaller phase wires. Still, you'd have to cut off all the connectors to come close to jamming it throuh and that's a PITA. There's also quite a lack of cable guides so I had to zip tie the swing arm to within an inch of it's life to keep the cables in place. I want to say there's only one wiring entrance to the frame because I didnt notice another, but since handing the bike over and looking at other pics they seem to show the wiring disappearing somewhere under pivot. I think with the longer shock in place this wiring entrance may have been completely obscured and I somehow missed it :oops: I was going to poo poo them for not having somewhere to easily run the wiring without drilling a hole in the frame (something I especially didn't want to do after a frame recently snapped just from rough hanging during shipping) but yeah, it sounds like I'm at fault for this one. So the only frame entrance (that I saw) is tucked up in the back of the controller cavity on the underside so I had to do an almost 360 degree loop the loop under bottom bracket and then back around and round. Early model qulbix frames were the same. This wouldn't be so bad if there were a few tie points but there's were very few (I think 1 or 2 on the bottom left side only) resulting in a bit of unsightly with ziptie city. And the one cable guide they DID have for the wiring exit from the motor pulled off the frame as soon as I put a tie through it! Looks like it was only epoxied on. It certainly doesn't leave much option for the motor wires not getting minced up by the rotor bolt heads.
hpc-guide.jpg
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Anyway that's mainly aesthetics. The biggest pain in the arse from a practicality point of view is that that the whole dropout section of the bike is removable. I didn't take a before pic but where the 10mm dropout should be is an oversized slot that's way bigger than any motor flats would be. The actual dropout part that physically captures the axle is a piece that slides (hammers) into place from the rear and is then held in place by 3 screws. This whole dropout section incorporates the derailleur hanger on one side and the brake mount on the other. God help you if you get a flat tyre on a trail, you have to remove the whole back end of the bike including derailleur and brake caliper! These dropout inserts are only aluminium too so I'm a bit worried about how they'll hold up at high power levels. I set the adaptto with a smooth power ramp as a precaution.

Other than that it's good :lol:

I think with single crown forks, a smaller motor (maybe one of HPCs famous 4kw geared numbers :lol: ) and small battery it'd make for a much more light and nimble bike.
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rix » Jul 18 2016 3:28am

(maybe one of HPCs famous 4kw geared numbers :lol: )
Yah, thats the ticket :lol: :lol:

Good write up Jay, I don't have the case of the wants for the bike, I could tell by just looking at it that the handling would be twitchy to say the least, you confirmed that.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Allex » Jul 18 2016 3:45am

For what is is worth, our bikes mostly look like post boxes(or washing machines heh) on wheels so not that pretty, but this one looks like a pregnant post box, so no thanks, back to the drawings it should go.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Kepler » Jul 18 2016 4:41pm

Jay, thanks for taking the time to do the detailed write up. Very interesting read indeed and certainly not what i was expecting.

DNM USD-6 single crown forks will be a good fix for the poor turning circle and considering it has more of an XC feel then DH feel, should make them a good match for the bike.
Allex wrote:For what is is worth, our bikes mostly look like post boxes(or washing machines heh) on wheels so not that pretty, but this one looks like a pregnant post box, so no thanks, back to the drawings it should go.
Still think it is a nice looking bike however I think the Beta is the pick of the crop when it comes to ebike frames currently available. Your open lattice framed Beta is in my opinion the best looking after market framed ebike to date. However this will be short lived once my 29er Beta is complete :mrgreen:
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Allex » Jul 18 2016 4:54pm

Knowing your good eye for craftsmanship Kep, I have no doubt about that, looking forward to the results!

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jul 18 2016 6:26pm

Kepler wrote:I think the Beta is the pick of the crop when it comes to ebike frames currently available.
I concur, but didn't want to finish off with that after my serve above. haha
And yes, an exchange program for a set of USD6s is already under way.
Your open lattice framed Beta is in my opinion the best looking after market framed ebike to date. However this will be short lived
Indeed
once my 29er Beta is complete
wait. what ? No, it'll be MY beta. :P

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jul 18 2016 11:08pm

Oh and next week I'll have something that will blow your skirts up. :mrgreen:
The white beta's haven't been getting enough love IMO. Hopefully my upcoming black and white special edition one will change a few minds :)
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Mammalian04 » Jul 18 2016 11:24pm

Great detailed write-up. I it makes me love the bikes in my stable even more.

I do find the turning radius on my Qulbix 140s a bit limited too. Interesting comments about the USD-8 giving more turning radius over Fox 40s.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Kepler » Jul 19 2016 5:18am

Hyena wrote:Oh and next week I'll have something that will blow your skirts up. :mrgreen:
The white beta's haven't been getting enough love IMO. Hopefully my upcoming black and white special edition one will change a few minds :)
Ooh, looking forward to that. My skirt awaits you.
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rix » Jul 19 2016 8:20pm

Kepler wrote:
Hyena wrote:Oh and next week I'll have something that will blow your skirts up. :mrgreen:
The white beta's haven't been getting enough love IMO. Hopefully my upcoming black and white special edition one will change a few minds :)
Ooh, looking forward to that. My skirt awaits you.
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by pendragon8000 » Nov 17 2016 12:10am

Hyena wrote:Oh and next week I'll have something that will blow your skirts up. :mrgreen:
The white beta's haven't been getting enough love IMO. Hopefully my upcoming black and white special edition one will change a few minds :)
:?:
Update time mate... the forums a bit slow now FB is thriving!
Its just not the same. Its like a bloody constantly derailing train wreck... nah its good sometimes.
What you been upto though?

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Nov 17 2016 3:04am

Oh man, where to start. I have both 100 things to talk about yet at the same time nothing...
I've had a few ups and downs with health issues and then been stupidly flat out trying to play catch up. I'm working full time + a second job 10hrs/week + contract work away or interstate many weekends. Inbetween that I see my family and there's essentially zero spare time to play with ebike stuff. I've got so many half done projects I want to finish but just can't get a run at it, and when I do get 30 seconds spare I'm generally buggered and can't be enthused to lift a spanner or soldering iron...

I get on ES FB or here occasionally, mainly just dropping in here and there checking in on old threads I'd sub'd to - generally on my phone standing in line waiting for my lunch or stuff like that. I read a few posts but don't typically get time to sit down and write the lengthy replies I'd generally be prone to.. :lol:

So synopsis of what I've been up to and what I've been building...
umm... OK let me go take a walk around the garage and get back to you :P
Not that I've been doing much riding at all but I've got a mega backlog of footage to post if I ever get time to edit it. I normally don't post first person trail footage as it's generally boring without mixing it up with other camera angles but I have a few clips I might chuck up as they're mildly interesting. I got a few day break in Qld a few weeks back and dropped in to visit sketch and we went for a ride on some sick local trails near his place. It's always more interesting with a second bike to follow and his trails were pretty tight with a mix of scenery and an amusing near stack from Sketch.

I desperately need to finish off my white beta to show off as a demo. I've got 10 bikes worth of frames and components in my workshop but had no time to build any up to shift. Hopefully very soon I get my own one finished and that will generate some interest in a few sales so I can recoup some of the many thousands worth I have tied up!

In the mean time here's a picture of my grey demo which I'll chuck up for sale when I get 30 seconds to post an add. Finally got it finished, and now I want to build a white one so can't keep both!
It's got all the good stuff - 20ah 72v battery, adaptto, schlumf, fox dhx5 etc. Tell all ya cashed up friends :P
Beta-park11.jpg
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What else is new...
I bought a new car recently. I was hoping to hang out a bit longer but got a good deal on this and it's pretty snazzy. 2.0l turbo so it's got some punch, epic hatch style boot that I can fit a whole bike in without pulling wheels off, heaps of gadgets. Ticks all the hyena boxes :)
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It'll do me until this arrives ;)
tesla11.jpg
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Last week I sold my little yamaha I was planning to convert to a legit road registered e-moto. I'm starting over with a new bike, going to look at the donor tomorrow after work. I've got a separate thread here if you're interested:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=80720
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rix » Nov 17 2016 4:10pm

Nice car Jay, glad it meets your specs. I know what you mean with work and being flat out. I have been averaging around 210-240 hours a month for the past 3 months. El suckio bro. I get a day off and piss it away on recovering and going to the gym and having a half assed total body work out, like earlier today. :? Hopefully, my employer status will change in Jan or Feb of 2017.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Nov 26 2016 5:22am

Yet another work trip away this weekend, I went via the blue mountains west of Sydney which has some great mtb trails. For those not familiar with it, years ago when I showed my dad pics of my trip to the US and grand canyon he said "oh, it looks just like the blue mountains but with no trees" :lol:
It's not quite Yosemite Rix but it's up there!

I've been meaning to get up there for ages but it's about 2 hours from where I live which ends up being a whole day return trip and I can never find the time. But driving right through I had no excuse this time so got in a great late afternoon ride. After riding out 8km to the very tip of the mountain I decided the view was too good not to get some video, so raced back to the car to get my drone. I got back in time to shoot some video with the last of the light, including a pretty spectacular golden sunset. I don't usually post selfies, but when the scenery is this good I'll make an exception :)


Image
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rodney64 » Nov 26 2016 6:57am

Nice photo Jay.

Good to see you're getting some riding in still.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rix » Nov 26 2016 11:32am

Thats just a plain awesome photo Jay, should consider blowing that up into a poster, and hanging on the wall in your shop. Its cold here, now, seeing day time temps in the upper 30s, low 40s, and night time down around 10-15F. Our cold came early. Would like to point out that the 30q cells are less affected by the cold then Lifepo4 :lol:

Yah the Blue Mountains do look like the Grand Canyon, Neat.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Nov 27 2016 5:15pm

Yeah Rix for all the hundreds of bike photos I take I reckon that ones a keeper. While I was out there flying about I had a young couple out bushwalking come up and check out what I was doing. I offered the girl to be a HEB model which she agreed too :P
Stay tuned for that in an upcoming FUTR promo vid :)
random-model.jpg
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I was wondering what you were on about with those temps for a sec until I realised you were talking fahrenheit :lol:
That's plenty chilly! Full face helmet weather for sure.
Good to hear the 30Qs are holding up well. I won't get a chance to test mine below 40F !
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » May 24 2017 12:09am

So I haven't updated this thread in a while - I figure I'm due for a 6 month dump / recap of what I've been up to :P

I've been out of action for the last month or so with a broken wrist - I had a bad stack over the easter long weekend on my dirtbike. I was following another dirt bike at around 50km/hr when he darted through a tiny gap in a fence (it was his property so knew the trail well) I was sitting a bit back off him out of his roost and dust cloud and by the time I saw the fence at the last split second it was too late. I think I'd probably started slightly to endo before the front wheel hit the fence. In retrospect I actually got off pretty light considering I was going pretty fast and spent alot of time in the air before hitting the ground! (and apparently the bike was spectacularly cartwheeling through the air after me)
Aaaanyway.

I STILL haven't gotten my white beta finished, nearly 12 months after starting work on it. What a travesty...
I keep chopping and changing my plans with it, then get caught up with other things. As a result my alpha is the only working bike I have at the moment. I've scratched it up a bit now unfortunately as myself and a few others have taken turns at gracefully coming off it. But that's kinda good now because I can throw it around without worrying too much and ride it like I stole it. Wait, I always did that... :P
alpha-wheelie.jpg
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And for our international friends, Straya!
Straya.jpg
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I cleared out a bunch of my old projects and half done bikes and my workshop space is looking alot more accessible as a results. The wife is happier too so that's a bonus in the nagging reduction department :P

This was my stable a few months ago.
Since then I've sold the madass, the raptor and my grey beta. The dirt bike now resides at a friends farm and once I put a battery on the fatbike I'll take that for a few laps along the beach for the sake of it then move that on too.
Bike-collection.jpg
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I have assembled a crew of mini trail fairies, my boys and the other kids in the street and got them enthused about building trails and jumps. The hyena private test track is coming along nicely :P
Trail-fairies.jpg
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I'm nearly finished building a tricked out alpha for a guy in the UK. The red and gunmetal theme has really grown on me so I've decided I'll build another one the same. 19" red motos rims front and rear with knobbies, not decided on the controller or battery yet.
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rix » May 24 2017 9:04am

Good update Jay. Glad you weren't hurt too bad in the crash. I am with you with the gun metal gray and red color. Just looks great. So great in fact, I am thinking of switching from my usual army green on black to that for my next build. I am on the fence for running either the MXUS 4T V3 with a 20s 12P battery made from 30Q cells with the Midi, or run the MXUS 5K with a 14S 16P battery and the MAX E. The MXUS has a 13kv rating so even a 14s battery will yield 55MPH or so without OVS. I should have my mind made up by september hopefully.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by vkadam » Jul 23 2017 8:39pm

Hi

I would appreciate it if someone can give me an idea as to the pricing for the 5kw and 10kw hyena turn key bikes. Also what do they weigh?

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Rix » Jul 23 2017 10:39pm

vkadam wrote:Hi

I would appreciate it if someone can give me an idea as to the pricing for the 5kw and 10kw hyena turn key bikes. Also what do they weigh?
Hey Jay, I think you have a potential customer. And he is local....at least in Oz.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Lost » Jul 28 2017 1:02pm

I tried using search, and came up nada.
Can someone tell me what the frame set with the fork weighs?

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Hyena   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jul 28 2017 8:51pm

Here's one with a USD-8 fitted.
The bare frame weight is about 6.9kg.
Assembled with all bolts, side covers, bottom door, suspension mounts AND the rear shock it's 7.8kg which is pretty respectable. The triple clamp forks add ~3.8kg

It's not often you see an ebike frame that is made to look so small and slight from the forks 8)
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