Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

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MurderousFrog   100 mW

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Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Jan 08 2017 3:57pm

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After my misadventures of trying to design custom bolt-on dropouts to fit a MXUS 3000 to my giant reign sx 2014, 3d-printing countless models which were just as unfitting for my frame as they were expensive and finally giving up after over a year I said to myself: screw it. I'm going mid-drive!
After a short search I settled for a Bafang BBSHD. From my last build I will use the batteries 20s 10AH and the adaptto controller. I will remove the original BBSHD controller and replace it with the adaptto, a few people have done that, running it on 3000W should be plenty, while still allowing the gears a long(ish) life. Battery will be enclosed in a custom mid-frame mounted unibody fiberglass box (room for ~20 20s 5AH Lipo bricks, should total to about 1000Wh usable capacity), similar to the one in my previous build.
After I received the BBSHD, I tried to take off the pedals and the bottom bracket on my Reign. Thats when I discovered that both of these need special tools. One GXP removal tool and one crank puller for octalink cranks. When I received the tools, I immediately took off the cranks and the bottom bracket just to discover that the BBSHD does not fit over the ISIS mount on the lower side of the frame. Grabbed a hacksaw and cut that nipple right off. Well... now the BBSHD went like 2cm deeper into the bottom bracket until it got stuck again. Searched the sphere for a few mintues, took a dremel to to the bottom bracket for a few hours, shaved the paint off the crank part of the BBSHD and it finally fit through! This was like birthday and christmas on the same day, minus the sweat and tears.
Im currently stuck waiting for the LunaCycle Lockring tool for the BBSHD. While I'm waiting for the tool I'm trying to replace the controller on the BBSHD, which is an absolute PITA. The controller is potted into the enclosure with this silicone-like substance and just won't come out. Originally I wanted to take the controller out without damaging it so I could keep it for later use it or resell it, but I might need to reconsider that...
Here are some pics of the progress so far:
Very early cardboard prototype
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early foam box prototype
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early box prototype fitting
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Later battery box prototypes. Currently the battery box is already made, foam removed, still working on the surface finish before painting. no pics from that yet.
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Previous adventures with 3D printed dropout prototypes. Made the rookie mistake of not checking the scaling before printing...
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Sawed off ISIS mount
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The BBSHD controller potted into the enclosure
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Carefully pulling out the potting material and trying not to damage the pcb...
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[EDIT] Added some pictures.
Last edited by MurderousFrog on Mar 05 2017 4:28am, edited 4 times in total.

Tats   1 kW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Tats » Jan 09 2017 3:51am

If you haven't bought the adapt yet you may want to have a look at the FOC from bikes.ca. Electricrt is selling a straight connect kit and the results like the adaptto look impressive.

MurderousFrog   100 mW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Jan 10 2017 7:54am

I already have the adaptto from my last build and I am not afraid of the electronics and wiring and stuff, removing the BBSHD controller from the casing without damaging it is the hard part right now.
Also, there's good news and bad news. The good ones first: I received my package from lunacycle yesterday! The bad news: they forgot to put in the LUNA wrench, which I was exactly what I was waiting for.
Customer support was nice, they're sending it out to me for free. But still, gotta wait 2 more weeks until it arrives.
However, I don't have that much time right now anyway, because the midterms are coming up and I should study like a mad man instead of tinkering with my bike...

MurderousFrog   100 mW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Jan 24 2017 3:31pm

As most of my exams are over, I had some time to work on the bike.
Pictures tell more than a thousand words:

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Testfit of all components on the bike. It is still comfortably light.
Battery is 10 packs of 5Ah 4s hobbyking lipo. This equals a 74V nominal 10Ah battery, and I still have room for 5Ah more or so. But mixing new and old lipo isn't the best idea, so I'll stick to the current battery.
Adaptto will be inside the battery case, because on my previous build, maxing it out with 6KW+ it never even got warm. Although I will have to see about this, because I'm not entirely sure that the higher eRPM won't create more heat in the controller, even when running less power, I'm shooting for about 2-3kw.

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Only the right one of the two switches is currently wired as a throttle cutoff, which is very useful when getting off the bike and not wanting it to accidentally leap around or when going slow around town/people.
Maybe I'll use some of the others for the front/back lights later.
I managed to carefully remove the original BBSHD controller from the housing and then soldered a new cable with XT150 connectors for the phase wires. Afterwards I soldered a new wiring harness for the throttle / speed sensor using plugs, so unplugging the throttle and the speed sensor is now easily possible without removing the whole wiring from the bike. Then I mounted the motor to the bike and it fits like a glove! You can't even really see it behind the large chainring. Ground clearance might be a problem, hmm.
I am planning to buy more of these black metal strips from the hardware store which I used for my last build to fix the battery-box to the bike. Then some more sanding, filling, sanding etc. for the box. The most boring part of the whole build. I ordered a shift sensor (GSD from gearsensor.com) with my BBSHD, but I didn't think that the regen/brake cutoff wire on the MINI-E would be used for the external speed sensor... So I basically only have the throttle signal line to work with. The worst thing is I can't even find a wiring diagram for the gearsensor so I could create a circuit for pulling the throttle signal down to ground. This will require some tinkering around, but it's currently not vital to get the bike running, which is what I've been pursuing as top priority. I will have to get a longer chain, the one that's on the bike is way too short for the 42T Lekkie Bling Ring.
At this stage, the bike test-fitted with the motor, controller, throttle, battery and everything else terribly important still weighs less than my last build with only the motor and nothing else mounted! I am pretty excited to ride it soon...
At last, could anyone tell me what kind of sensor this thing is? I suppose it's some kind of hall sensor, but for what? It was included with my BBSHD and I can't find any info on it in the manuals.
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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by WoodlandHills » Jan 24 2017 5:34pm

It's a brake sensor in case you decide to use levers without microswitches. There should be a small magnet as well......
Last edited by WoodlandHills on Jan 24 2017 6:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

MurderousFrog   100 mW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Jan 24 2017 5:46pm

Oh well that solves it. Thank you very much. There was no magnet included.
Gotta figure out how to use it because the adaptto regen/thr cutoff wire is already used by the external speed sensor....

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Mar 05 2017 4:37am

I didn't have time to post any updates in the last month because I was busy finishing the bike! Finally now I can share it with all of you.
First off, it's an absolute blast to ride. Even though it has less power than my last buildit effortlessly pulled me up every grade i could find.

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Fabricating the fiberglass battery box is something I won't be doing again any time soon. This is a very time intensive process, even more so because I probably didn't do it right. I would not recommend this to anyone who does not know what they are getting into. However, it looks just so much better than any way one can build a battery box at home, as well as being much lighter and sturdier than any other material. I can literally stomp and jump on mine with the only damage being some scratched paint.
I cannot recommend Epoxy resin enough. It is so much more friendly to work with than Polyester. Your lungs, hands, clothes and tools will all thank you.
Basically here is the process broken down:
  • Create a foam plug. Having a hot wire foam cutter, a box knife with a fresh blade and a workshop where stuff is allowed to get dirty is essential. I started by glueing two thick plates of foam together and cutting out the general shape fitting into the bike frame. After hours of sanding I arrived at a shape I was satisfied with. Rounded edges save lives. And tears, blood and sweat, when working with fiberglass. Watch out to make it up to 8mm smaller on all sides, because the fiberglass will go on top and make it bigger.
  • Coating the plug with wax to ensure proper seperation at the end.
  • Cutting out the largest fitting pieces of fiberglass mat and cloth.
  • Layering it up all over and around the plug. This was the hardest part. The fiberglass mat and cloth do not want to adhere to strongly rounded surfaces.
  • After waiting for the resing to dry, I started cutting out the middle of the sides of the box where the lids will later be. Then I started pulling out all the foam from inside the box with a screw driver. this literally took days, because it is such a hard and frustrating thing to do. Do not try to dissolve the foam with acetone or gasoline, this just causes a greater mess and very hard residues on the inside of the box, which are even harder to clean up.
  • Start sanding. This was probably where most of the work went. Uncountable hours of sanding and filling to make the outside (relatively) smooth.
  • Drilling. Putting all the necessary holes into the box for cables, lids and mounting brackets.
  • Painting. This is where I stopped caring how the box would look in the end. I used three coats of primer, five for the paint and another four of clear coating.
If I would ever do this again I would probably make a proper mould first, make two halves and later glue/mount them together to save myself all the hassle of sanding and filling.

When I first set up the BBSHD with the Adaptto, I was let down with the performance of the motor, it would heat up in no time and going up even the slightest incline would make it overheat. After spending thousands of Euros and hundreds of hours of work on this bike I felt pretty defeated. I got on the web, searched the manuals and drew the conclusion that 'ind timing' and pwr was set too low by the adaptto autodetect. By trial and error I managed to find a setting where the motor only reaches 65°C on the steepest inclines under long durations of full throttle.
The full suspension and thick downhill tires really make this thing a beast. Now I can ride faster, longer and more comfortably with more control than before.
Something I am noticing even more than on my last bike is that people are glaring and pointing at me when I pass by. Inside the town I mostly ride at normal bike speeds not to attract cops, and I can sometimes hear people laugh about my full face downhill helmet, thick jacket, boots and gloves. When I am in the forests hauling ass down the mountain or going neck-breaking speeds on the rural roads I chuckle about them and their petty lives, where the most thrilling part of their lives is prime time TV. Kind of gives me a smug sense of satisfaction, I guess...

Things to be done:
  • Swap the spring in my fork because it is currently way too firm. Sag is less than 20mm and I haven't been able to reach more than half of the 170mm the fork has to offer.
  • Shorten the seatpost! Every time I stop i almost fckin fall over because my flimsy legs are too short, which leaves me looking like an ass at red lights.
  • Make or buy a kickstand, having to find a tree or other objects to lean my bike on everytime I leave it is a serious downside.
  • Buy a heavy and high-quality bike chain. There's practically no criminality in my town, but I can see why someone would steal the bike. (Its so damn sexy)
  • Properly set up the external speed sensor on the adaptto. Currently it reads only motor speed, even though the option in the menu is turned on. Will have to investigate further (perhaps update the firmware?).
  • Set up PAS
  • Install a step down converter to power my bike lights.
  • Buy the Mighty Mini 30 tooth BBSHD chainring for even more torque in the lower gears.
Things to be afraid of:
  • Cops
  • Chains falling off and eating into your calves
  • Batteries spontaneously combusting
  • Eating tarmac at 70km/h after going too fast over that one pothole
  • Getting my bike stolen
Now for some technical specs:
Current power: 2.5kw
Battery voltage: 82V hoc
If anyone is interested, I can post my adaptto settings for the BBSHD.

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Matador   10 kW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Matador » Mar 05 2017 3:24pm

MurderousFrog wrote: If anyone is interested, I can post my adaptto settings for the BBSHD.
I'd like to know your adaptoo settings.
I'm considering purchasing that Adapto Mini-E form my BBSHD setup.
Best controller system ever !

MurderousFrog   100 mW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Mar 06 2017 7:15am

I'm currently busy with university and work but I'll write them down for you as soon as I can find the time.
Just a word of warning: Replacing the original controller was everything except easy. Also currently the external speed sensor does not work and the adaptto itself is far from perfect. If you do not know what you are doing you can easily destroy the BBSHD with the wrong settings. I recommend using the original BBSHD controller as it is already a very good integrated system in itself. If you need more power, there is the possibility to reprogram the BBSHD controller as far as I know. If you still feel up to doing all that and don't care about the downsides, by all means, go ahead. This is why we are here on ES, to modify and hot-rod things.
Cheers

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Matador   10 kW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Matador » Mar 06 2017 6:20pm

MurderousFrog wrote:I'm currently busy with university and work but I'll write them down for you as soon as I can find the time.
Just a word of warning: Replacing the original controller was everything except easy. Also currently the external speed sensor does not work and the adaptto itself is far from perfect. If you do not know what you are doing you can easily destroy the BBSHD with the wrong settings. I recommend using the original BBSHD controller as it is already a very good integrated system in itself. If you need more power, there is the possibility to reprogram the BBSHD controller as far as I know. If you still feel up to doing all that and don't care about the downsides, by all means, go ahead. This is why we are here on ES, to modify and hot-rod things.
Cheers
Yes. If I install this, I will get help from a pro. DoctorBass lives close from my place and I believe he knows a lot about the adaptto...
It just seems awsome to be able to configure the controller on the go, to recharge from any source of voltage, to be able to pull more than 30 amps.
I am mechanicely and electricely inclined...But for that kind of stuff I like to learn from people with more hands-on experience . Hence me asking you... No hurries though.
I have lots of exams coming too. Good luck on them!

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Sean9002   1 kW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Sean9002 » Mar 06 2017 11:09pm

Great work on the box, Glassing is one of those things you get better at with time.....or walk away from completely and never attempt again. :D
Good luck with the exams man!
OSET 20+ - Custom frame and swingarm, Motorims - 66V
Ruff Cycles Porucho - MXUS 3000w - whitewalls - Gloss black/Pearl blue/copper leaf - custom tanks - bobber saddle
Giant Glory 00 - Clyte X5404 - Hubsinks - 18FET Sinewave
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39inch longboard Dual 50mm, 12s lipo

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pwd   100 W

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by pwd » Mar 07 2017 4:10pm

That is a damn fine build. The bike looks awesome and clean; very inspiring. I am definitely considering a full face helmet when I get back into commuting; its better to be safe than sorry; even at the 45km/h I'll be doing. You must have so much fun on those rural roads with that machine! I really like that switch panel; how did you mount it to the bars?
Current Build:
Rocky Mountain Element
Magic Pie 4 front + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ WCEC 18fet
em3ev 14S5P 30Q + 14S6P 25R pack

Old Build:
GIANT ATX 980 w/ Cycle Analyst v2.25
Golden Motor Magic Pie (internal controller) X2
14S3P 15aH: 6X 6S 5000mAh + 3X 2S 5000mAh LiPo packs
My thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 5&p=693208

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by DriftTrike » Mar 31 2017 1:13pm

Nice work! I am in almost the exact same situation as you except I have a 2017 Reign. Did you ever consider modding the rear triangle by cutting the rear frame and chemically bonding stainless steel dropouts? How is the clearance when riding the trails?

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by ideate » May 15 2017 11:01pm

Cool. Ever bash the motor on things? Rocks?

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Sep 10 2017 2:47pm

Matador wrote: Yes. If I install this, I will get help from a pro. DoctorBass lives close from my place and I believe he knows a lot about the adaptto...
It just seems awsome to be able to configure the controller on the go, to recharge from any source of voltage, to be able to pull more than 30 amps.
I am mechanicely and electricely inclined...But for that kind of stuff I like to learn from people with more hands-on experience . Hence me asking you... No hurries though.
I have lots of exams coming too. Good luck on them!
Took me a long time to get back to you, but here I am!
If you are still interested, I will upload some screenshots of the settings I'm currently running. Beware though - these are not fully optimized, when the freewheel in the rearwheel hasn't engaged yet (bike rolling or braking and accelerating afterwards) the throttle control is very coarse, so either you'll smash the freewheel in with a loud "clunk" or the motor begins to oscillate. When riding normally it's fine though.
pwd wrote:That is a damn fine build. The bike looks awesome and clean; very inspiring. I am definitely considering a full face helmet when I get back into commuting; its better to be safe than sorry; even at the 45km/h I'll be doing. You must have so much fun on those rural roads with that machine! I really like that switch panel; how did you mount it to the bars?
Thanks a lot, this is what I was aiming for, I hate cable nests on ebikes! The full face helmet is definitely needed, smashing into anything at those speeds can be deadly. You kind of get used to it, as well as people looking and staring. I would feel naked riding without the full face now. It is quite the machine, 3.5Kw is more than enough in the mountains, especially with the torque of a low gearing. Can flip me right over on my back if I'm not careful. The switchpanel is just a piece of carbonfiber panel (2mm thick) left over from my previous build. I mounted it with a custom made fiberglass piece which has kind of an U shape, with flanges on the end. similar to how some cheap bike bells are mounted, fixed to the bar by one screw clamping it on.
DriftTrike wrote:Nice work! I am in almost the exact same situation as you except I have a 2017 Reign. Did you ever consider modding the rear triangle by cutting the rear frame and chemically bonding stainless steel dropouts?
Thank you very much. Originally I considered building custom bolt-on dropouts out of steel, but I wasted lots of time on it without outcome. I think it certainly is possible if you have the tools, knowledge and patience when frocking up designs, which certainly happens a lot. I personally wouldn't recommend doing that though, because its just way too much work. The BBSHD combined with the downhill frame works just so well on everything from racing straight uphill through the woods to going 70+km/h on the roads. I don't miss the power of my previous ~5-6kw build even one bit, the light weight, gear shifting and cooler running motor make it all up.
DriftTrike wrote: How is the clearance when riding the trails?
ideate wrote:Cool. Ever bash the motor on things? Rocks?
Clearance is great, I have never hit anything except maybe high grass and flowers with it, even when riding through rough terrain. It probably would be possible if there is a tree laying across the trail or something... but then I would stop and lift the bike over even if it had no motor, so no loss here.

MurderousFrog   100 mW

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by MurderousFrog » Sep 10 2017 2:58pm

Finally, some more recent pics.
http://imgur.com/a/00y2r

Also, the adaptto settings:
https://imgur.com/qeiMvIN
https://imgur.com/JcfZfHP
Let me know if you need anything else.

I also got the adaptto external speed sensor working. The problem was that the speed sensor i was using (which was included with the BBSHD) has a very low signal range. From 0V up to 200mV when the magnet on the spoke is passing. This is not enough for the adaptto. My solution was to splice in a simple inverting amplifier using a NPN transistor and a resistor, both of which I had laying around. With a bit of calculation and a bit of trial and error I arrived at a signal now going from 0.7V up to around 4.3V when the magnet is passing, enough for the adaptto to recognize it. For anyone else doing this, be careful and use a high enough resistor, else you could damage the adaptto 5V hall voltage rail, which I read is a pain in the ass to replace.
When someone needs a schematic I can draw one up.

This is the perfect trail machine, and I would recommend anyone else looking for something like this to try the combination of BBSHD, downhill bike and Adaptto. It is so lightweight, smooth, powerful enough to smoke small motorcycles and way more fun than any hub motor will ever be. For the terrain I'm riding in this is absolutely perfect. I don't have to deal with overheating motors, blown out dropouts or shorts on the motor cables anymore. It is just so much less work than properly setting up a bike frame for the power of a hub, and even then it is hard to reach the balance and light weight of this build.

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by mikebermea » Oct 24 2017 8:48pm

Awesome build man. Hey I was wondering if you could share more photos of your settings. I seem to be producing more heat than desired and think maybe I have something incorrect. The bike is fast but I feel like its not running efficient enough as the power input does not produce as much mechanic output as one might expect and heat build up is rather quick. Thanks a lot for you post so far it has helped a ton.

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Iwan96 » Oct 31 2017 6:04pm

Hi very awesome build
Can you draw me the schematic to modify external speed sensor?thanks

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Alex07 » Nov 04 2017 8:53pm

awesome battery box build !

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Bigbear » Nov 07 2018 2:33pm

Hi, amazing build!!! You’ve inspired me to mount a BBSHD to my Reign x2 (2010). Do you have any idea how different are these bikes? From the pictures that you posted they look really similar... thanks for the detailed build :D

P.s. can you please explain what was the problem with the bottom bracket? Why didn’t it fit in the first place?

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Bigbear » Nov 11 2018 4:51am

What size is your bbshd? 100mm?

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Re: Giant Reign SX 2014 + Bafang BBSHD + Adaptto MINI-E

Post by Bigbear » Nov 15 2018 5:40pm

Anyone? Is this thread dead? :cry: :lowbatt:

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