Introducing the Electrom

Show off your E-bike creation here.
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LockH   100 GW

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by LockH » Mar 11 2018 7:43pm

So "bikes" doesn't include trikes, despite the obvious advantages. Interesting.
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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by tigcross » Mar 11 2018 7:57pm

It's true that a trike offers the advantage of stability, but for my purpose the downsides were:
  • Loss of two-wheel handling characteristics (and yes, I know there are leaning trikes)
  • Width - too wide
  • some trike riders refer to them as "pothole seekers" due to the fact that with a trike you have three wheel planes you have to steer around obstructions, VS a bike that just has one (as the 2nd wheel follows behind the first)

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by LockH » Mar 11 2018 9:00pm

^^ Hehe... That's interesting... "pothole seekers" ... gotta think about that. :)
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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by amberwolf » Mar 11 2018 9:20pm

And it can certainly be true--I've had a much harder time avoiding potholes on the SB Cruiser trike than the CrazyBike2 bike.

On the bike I can sometimes even pass to the right of a set of potholes in a row, or a really big one, but on the trike I have to move far to the left part of the lane to avoid the same ones. :/

If I could do the same stuff with the bike that I can with the trike (especially stability with a wiggly fuzzy load on there), I'd've stuck to the bike format. :)

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by LockH » Mar 13 2018 9:58am

Hehe... Had another thought re Electrom Add-Ons... Having dumped recumbent trikes lots of times... (sideways roll over... the last time one bystander estimated my speed at maybe 20kmh...)

Given the trike backrest already has the framework, might try adding more weight (Oh ohhhh...) as a swinging pendulum... with a cord connecting the pendulum to the steering such that the pendulum works in reverse, and actually pulled opposite to the way the trike is being steered when other than straight ahead? This from using crew weight to counterbalance the wind sideways force on multihull sailboats...
Image

:wink:

EDIT: Hehe... Rather than add any more weight, would just use the cord to pull the riders weight/move the seat, already bolted to the top of the backseat frame... so the rider and seat become the pendulum counterweight. :)
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

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tigcross   10 W

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by tigcross » Mar 13 2018 11:52am

Ok Lock, now you're just getting silly.

But it does bring up a missing fourth point for my reasons for not using a trike: SIMPLICITY. I felt that in order for a new LEV to be successful it would need to be simple to operate, and simple to build and maintain. The "simple to build and maintain" aspects also contributes to another primary design consideration which was PRICE. Simple things are cheaper to make, easier to sell and easier to fix. Everybody wins with simple. Keep it simple.
Last edited by tigcross on Mar 13 2018 1:04pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by LockH » Mar 13 2018 12:40pm

Hehe... OK. Just plenty of examples of folks using pendulums as counterweights... and I'd be trying to bolt the top of the seat to the top/rear frame so rider (and seat) gets to help keep "things" a little more stable on turns. I know about leaning into turns... just sayin'. :wink:
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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by eCue » Mar 13 2018 11:38pm

Any sign of a electric bike sidecar ekit ?
With a sidecar a friend or hairy pet could join in on the fun :D
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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by tigcross » Mar 17 2018 11:55am

hey everybody, a coule of people have asked me for some unedited clips of the Electrom to show sound and such.

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by 1JohnFoster » Mar 17 2018 7:51pm

Hi Tig,

That does sound very quiet. ... suspiciously so ;) What are you using to record? Do you have a streamlining shell or foam sound dampening over your phone mic? Not that I found it loud when I rode it, I don't remember any rattling or other noises.

I like your general configuration. But also like the idea of a side car option. ... Maybe after you're in regular production? My daughter (at 15) doesn't fold up as small as yours and wouldn't fit in your trunk. She's already approaching my weight & height. My project (likely never to be completed) puts two people inline, both quite upright, and only has pedals for the driver. The latter is the rub, because because it really is a pain to pedal uphill for two people. A bolt-on as needed sidecar car would be an easy way to add passenger space with pedals. And it would not increase wheelbase even further. It's noticeable in your videos how your long wheelbase makes steering a lot less precise than a normal bike.

Anyway, what is your production schedule and plans? Crowdsource, Kickstarter etc? Sell a series of prototypes to angel investors as you continue to refine?

I think it would be worth your time to talk with Kody & John S. and compare product. The Veemo has been in service for a while at UBC, they must have some initial feedback. I haven't had time to get out there myself, am wondering how it's working, how people on that planet feel about heads in vs heads out, if the trike fits on paths and parks OK, or feels too wide. Last time I talked to John (maybe a yr or two ago with time flying??!) he said a frequent comment was 2 person version would be better. Their fiberglasser is a really nice guy too if you're ready to go there.

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by tigcross » Mar 18 2018 7:12pm

Hi John, good to hear from you. I did have a foam wind-damper on the microphone of the camera so I expect that there was a bit more noise that was not picked up.
I'm planing to launch an Indegogo campaign to raise some money to produce a set of ten Beta test bikes. Look for that to go live in mid to late April.
The Electrom does take a chariot-style trailer now. I like the idea of a sidecar, but for now I'm focusing on simple.
With regard to steering, response, you can't really compare it to a normal bike, in fact, I decided quite early that I was abandoning any relation to a normal bike in my design. I was after stability and comfort, especially at high speed and to achieve that, normal bike handling was not an option.
I think that I'm approaching the time when a conversation with the guys at Veemo would be worthwhile.

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by LockH » Mar 19 2018 1:09am

the Smike company in Switzerland...
Image

http://smike.ch/

:wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60564

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by trazor » May 18 2018 6:31pm

Tigercross,

Admirable engineering and construction skills. Congratulations.

Have you received comments on safety? To me looks like in case of front crash the windshield may cause some upper body injury. What about trying to to make it detach if enough forward force is applied (like a chest pushing it). Or maybe i'm exaggerating the outcomes of a crash?

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by tigcross » May 21 2018 5:52pm

Hi Trazor, thanks for the feedback, yes a few people have asked about the potential injuries from the windscreen. It is actually made of a Windwrap recumbent bike fairing and the material used is a very flexible poly carbonate that will bend on impact. That said, it is something that makes people worry, so on the next version I'll be taking steps to makes sure that the front fairing doesn't give the appearance of something that might cause injury. A forward moving break-away system like you mention is something I am considering.

Tig

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by 1JohnFoster » May 23 2018 4:22pm

tigcross wrote:
May 21 2018 5:52pm
...on the next version I'll be taking steps to makes sure that the front fairing doesn't give the appearance of something that might cause injury. A forward moving break-away system like you mention is something I am considering.
It is funny how I get a visual impression of decapitation potential from the Electrom but not from heads out velomobiles like Quest. In a Quest it looks like on a frontal impact your bum would just slide forward and your head would just slide down the seat and disappear inside until your knees bent up and hit the top cowling. Maybe it's the higher seating position in the Electrom that looks like if you rammed something you'd sort of fly up and forward and be impaled. Also Electrom's fairing comes closer to the neck than quest, and being a 2 wheeler maybe it reminds me of the "thrown over the handlebars" accidents I was warned of on as a kid.

Another impression I have is just from the shape - from side view your windshield actually curves downward and looks pointed - free association makes it look like a "knife pointed at your throat". It is weird though because I didn't get any of these impressions in person or while riding it.

Maybe you could cut the windshield a foot or so forward and cover the "rain on your chest" space with a stiffish but very "soft" looking neoprene cover? Somewhat like a kyak skirt? Do I remember correctly you do get rain down your jacket, that you learned to fold your jacket at the bottom so your crotch doesn't end up as the drain? Or would that limit visibility?

I don't want to criticise "your baby", but the one thing I would change is that windshield - it looks much higher and longer than necessary and generally sort of "bulbous and in the way". Does it need to be clear? Maybe a fiberglass would be cheaper, and would save you that extra strut for support. If you made it really thin it could be just as flexible as the polycarb and save you the complexity of breakaway mechanism. If you put returns on the edges it could be made "just stiff enough" to hold shape in the wind without that extra support beam in the center.

Electrom as is.jpg
As is
Electrom as is.jpg (13.3 KiB) Viewed 522 times
Electrom - shorter less pointy windshield.png
shorter & less pointy
Electrom - shorter less pointy windshield.png (97.86 KiB) Viewed 522 times
Electrom - shorter & lower windsheild + rain skirt.png
Shorter & lower + rain skirt
Electrom - shorter & lower windsheild + rain skirt.png (112.85 KiB) Viewed 522 times

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tigcross   10 W

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by tigcross » May 24 2018 12:34am

It is funny how I get a visual impression of decapitation potential from the Electrom but not from heads out velomobiles like Quest.
I agree John, almost all velomobiles present an even greater danger to the rider than the Electrom– on the Electrom the fairing is flexible and would crumple, but on a velomobile the fuselage is rigid and would not crumple, and would therefore do more damage. But what it comes down to is appearance: if it looks dangerous, it's a problem, whether it is actually dangerous or not.
Another impression I have is just from the shape - from side view your windshield actually curves downward and looks pointed - free association makes it look like a "knife pointed at your throat". It is weird though because I didn't get any of these impressions in person or while riding it.
Yes, it was the same for me, I never even considered it until someone pointed it out. While riding the Electrom one does not feel endangered by the windscreen at all.
I don't want to criticise "your baby", but the one thing I would change is that windshield - it looks much higher and longer than necessary and generally sort of "bulbous and in the way". Does it need to be clear? Maybe a fiberglass would be cheaper,
Constructive criticism is always welcome. Yes, I've come to a similar conclusion, The windscreen as it is has the rounded shape because that was the windscreen I had on hand when building it. It doesn't need nearly that much height except where the rider's knees rise and fall when pedaling. The whole front area could be much lower. This would have the added benefit of improving frontal visibility. I considered making it out of fiberglass, but I feel that in order for less imaginative future buyers to accept it as a legitimate vehicle they will need to see something that they can relate to, like a clear windscreen. I also like the fact that the blown Polycarbonate windscreens are very light and soft. ironically it looks like hard & sharp glass that would cut your head off, but in fact it's very flexible. That said I have shortened it up and lowered the front in my design for the next version,
Here's a few drawings.
Electrom-fairing1.jpg
Electrom-fairing1.jpg (144.29 KiB) Viewed 512 times
Electrom kit options.png

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by eCue » May 24 2018 3:57am

I liked those suggestions , it would look more balanced if the windshield was left as high as possible and the seat lowered as low as possible , so it appeared you would be scooped into and protected by the windscreen instead of maybe injured on the way by.
People are used to be being behind glass its not really that useful but is a nice styling touch. It would be equally nice blacked out. You could offer both clear and solid. People love getting what they want :)

I used a solid black windscreen on my ebike that suits well enough. Its a Motorcycle 1/4 fairing , if the bike was white a white fairing would look trick.

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by 1JohnFoster » May 24 2018 4:54pm

Nice! How much is the frame kit?

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Re: Introducing the Electrom

Post by tigcross » May 24 2018 5:34pm

Nice! How much is the frame kit?
I'm hoping to get it to market for around $2500

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