Single-speed track stealth ultralight

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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Apr 09 2018 6:17pm

cwah wrote:
Apr 09 2018 5:53pm
How many watts are you pulling on this motor? I m interested to know by when the clutch will fail :p
I'm only giving the motor 480W. With the Phaserunner, that means on a fully-charged pack (54.6V) it'll only get 8.8A. At nominal voltage, it'll get 10A. I plan on pushing this up to 12-15A which I think this guy will handle just fine, but I want to run it a bit at this level first.

Here's all of the basic settings I have for the YTW-06 and a 13s2p pack. Before anyone comments, I know this motor won't do regen, but the Phaserunner software won't accept '0' for those values, so I just set them as if the motor could do regen even though it'll never happen.
ytw-06_motor-settings.jpg
The motor settings. Pole count and approx Kv were entered, the rest was from auto-tune
ytw-06_motor-settings.jpg (120.95 KiB) Viewed 1218 times
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ytw-06_battery-settings.jpg
pretend that the regen stuff is blank
ytw-06_battery-settings.jpg (96.52 KiB) Viewed 1218 times
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ytw-06_feeback-tuning.jpg
This is really important to set or you will get errors
ytw-06_feeback-tuning.jpg (40.67 KiB) Viewed 1218 times
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Apr 09 2018 6:32pm

I wanted to mention, that as far as "seat of the pants" feel goes. This motor feels almost as strong with just 10A as the Q100 did with 18A. I'd say its due to the difference in gearing: 17.5:1 for the YTW-06 vs 8:1 for the Q100. I'm interested in seeing how this thing feels on 12-15A. But I won't test that until next week.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by cwah » Apr 09 2018 7:23pm

how did you count the number of pole?

I'm quite impressed by what you said. at the say time, having killed so many geared motor I'd be keen to hear what will happen in the next 3 months. Clutch never broke within the first week or month, but after a longer period of time.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Apr 09 2018 7:44pm

Xiongda provided me the info on the pole count (8-poles), then I multiplied that by the gear ratio to get the effective pole count. I give the full breakdown of all the specs on the first post of the motor thread.

I will definitely post here or in the motor thread about any failures I have and what I was pushing into the motor when it failed if that should happen. I don't want to intentionally find the limits of this motor. I really like it and the bike it's in. I really don't want to have to have it in parts again for weeks while I wait for parts to fix it after breaking something. But... If I do break it, I'll be sure to provide full details here for everyone else to learn from :wink:
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by cwah » Apr 10 2018 5:53pm

Thanks looking forward for news. I'm considering getting one but I'm afraid of noise! I like the silence of direct drive and you mentioned it's louder than the bbs02 and the cute100h
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Apr 12 2018 7:38pm

I still need to get more miles on this thing before I know for sure, but it does seem to be getting better with the noise. It might be too soon to tell, but I don't think this will ever be considered a quiet motor, but if it continues to get better compared to day 1, I'll be totally happy. The light weight, great torque (for it's size), and it's application as an assist motor are all worth a little more noise to me.

That being said, if I'd gotten the correct Q100 and it didn't have broken halls, I probably would have stayed with the Q100. The Q100 is nearly the same size, and can handle more watts while being quieter. Since I needed to replace the faulty Q100 anyway, I'm not disappointed at all with the YTW-06 so far. I've been super surprised at how capable it is while being so small and light.

On another note, so far with this motor I've gotten about 14 miles out of my battery pack without hitting LVC. My commute is about 10 miles per day, and I was able to go two days without recharging. I don't use the motor for about 30% of the ride, so that's how I got 14 miles. Like a dope though, I forgot to measure the pack voltage before I started recharging it, so I don't know how many total watts I used over those two days. I'll be sure to measure that the next time.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by eCue » Apr 12 2018 11:16pm

Your seat bag would look next level with a push to view voltage display on it

On my bike 12AH 48v going full speed pedaling little the voltage drops from 54.6v to 50v after 18k / 11 miles , I leave the pack sit until the next ride then recharge before leaving and repeat.
Using what I learned from reading its the best way to extend the batteries lifespan.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by cwah » Apr 13 2018 4:31am

I may get the q100h instead. I can't bear the noise of a motor. I used the q100h before it was decently quiet on sine wave
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Apr 14 2018 10:52am

eCue wrote:
Apr 12 2018 11:16pm
Your seat bag would look next level with a push to view voltage display on it
Yeah, that would be cool for sure. With such a small pack, I'd be worried about power-draw from hooking up something to display the voltage. I have a wattmeter in my parts bin, but that is always on and draws power from the pack unless you unplug it. One thing I'd been thinking is using both the Luna solid-state switch at the pack, followed by a wattmeter, then running to the controller, but I can't fit all of that into the bag. I've been really interested in the bluetooth BMSes that can not only report overall power stats, but also provide individual cell stats. My concerns—and why I didn't get one for my seat bag battery—was that they look a bit larger and bulkier, and they don't have great (or any) iOS apps. I'd love to just take out my phone and check the stats before or after a ride.
On my bike 12AH 48v going full speed pedaling little the voltage drops from 54.6v to 50v after 18k / 11 miles , I leave the pack sit until the next ride then recharge before leaving and repeat.
Using what I learned from reading its the best way to extend the batteries lifespan.
I'm not sure that's necessary if you're riding every day, but that's definitely good advice if the bike will be unused for more than a couple days.

I measured the pack voltage after one day's commute of about 10 miles. The pack read 49.6V. This is a 7Ah 48V nominal pack with a full charge capacity of 382Wh (54.6V x 7Ah) and after 10 miles it was at 347Wh (49.6V x 7Ah). So in terms of total efficiency with me, the route, and the motor, I'm looking at about 3.5Wh/m (35Wh used over 10 miles).
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Apr 14 2018 10:55am

After a week of commuting I've decided to bump the amps being fed to the motor up to 12. I'd like to get a little more pull from this thing in the few places I do need to use full power. Here's a screenshot of the latest Phaserunner settings for this motor.
ScreenShot.jpg
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by eCue » Apr 14 2018 5:03pm

Your top speed may well climb after the amperage increase , my bike would only do 30 - 32k on 10 Amps with a cheap Chinese square wave controller.

When I moved it up to 14A top speed moved up to 39 or 40k , on level ground.
Could of been due to the Amp restriction or Im thinking its software programed to reduce speed at 10A. This controller has a max output of 22A I have not set it past 14A yet as the motors a 36v 350w as it is run on 750 watts peak at 48v 115% above rated :?

Sometime will set to unlimited , 22A 70Kph max speed for a straight stretch speed test.
Today moved it up to 50K from 45 max speed to see if it increases the bikes speed up near that with a tailwind or on slight slope etc.

When i m0ved it from 40 to 45k i started to reach 44K at times so i have hope :D


The wifi bms would be nice especially if small enough. Although they may drain the battery. I priced one before at 80 bucks so they can be pricey. It would be nice to check charge state from the cell phone.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by eCue » Apr 14 2018 5:39pm

I measured the pack voltage after one day's commute of about 10 miles. The pack read 49.6V. This is a 7Ah 48V nominal pack with a full charge capacity of 382Wh (54.6V x 7Ah) and after 10 miles it was at 347Wh (49.6V x 7Ah). So in terms of total efficiency with me, the route, and the motor, I'm looking at about 3.5Wh/m (35Wh used over 10 miles).
That is low consumption 3.5 watts a mile
I worked mine out (for the first time ) after reading your math on Wh/m :D
My 11 mile route is flat for 85% of the distance flat out I did 5 Wh/m @ 38 to 40 kph most of the time. Surprised its so low. Then again I do not know what normal is. The wind fairing must be doing its job , I do run down a hill that I pedal up so that helps Im sure.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Apr 14 2018 8:59pm

The 3.5Wh/m comes from the entire ride, but in all honesty, since I don’t use the motor at all for some of the ride, I’ll need to adjust that. I am probably using the motor for 7-8 miles out of the total 10. So that’s actually more like 5 Wh/m (35Wh / 7 miles). Which is more like what you’re seeing eCue
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by -dg » Apr 30 2018 9:42pm

zro-1 wrote:
Feb 23 2018 10:04pm
I never showed what I did for the throttle.

I ended up using Grin's new slim half twist throttle. Its really nice as far as half twist throttles go.
throttle-1.jpg
What brake levers are those? They look like drop bar interrupter levers, but that's not a drop bar. I've been looking for a solution for crowded flat bars.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by -dg » May 01 2018 3:46am

zro-1 wrote:
Apr 09 2018 5:30pm
I added a remote button for the Phaserunner to the tip of the seat bag where there's a void in front of (or is it behind) the battery.
That's really sweet.

Would you mind making a short bill of materials for some of these things and posting it, I'm mainly interested in the buttons and your very pretty remote switch, but the bag and other parts might also be of interest to others. Thanks.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » May 01 2018 4:50pm

-dg wrote:
Apr 30 2018 9:42pm
What brake levers are those? They look like drop bar interrupter levers, but that's not a drop bar. I've been looking for a solution for crowded flat bars.
Those were just the generic, no-name 2-finger levers that came with the bike. I ditched them when I went to bullhorn bars. I think they are called cross top levers? They push the cable sleeve instead of pulling the inner cable. Here's something similar on Amazon for $20 USD: http://a.co/id8pqf3
Last edited by zro-1 on May 01 2018 5:06pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » May 01 2018 5:01pm

-dg wrote:
May 01 2018 3:46am
That's really sweet.

Would you mind making a short bill of materials for some of these things and posting it, I'm mainly interested in the buttons and your very pretty remote switch, but the bag and other parts might also be of interest to others. Thanks.
I got the resistors and buttons from Mouser.com. The remote on/off I scavenged from my spare-parts bin, but I've seen similar on Mouser as well. All the silicone wires and shrink tube I got from HobbyKing.

Momentary buttons:
- https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/693-1241.1606.11

Resistors:
- 5.62KΩ https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/66 ... DCT52R5621
- 2.87KΩ https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/60 ... FBF52-2K87
- 2.4KΩ https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/594-5043ED2K400F
- 10KΩ https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/66 ... CT52R1002F
- 1.43KΩ https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/60 ... 5FRF521K43
The resistors are listed as reference for type and pricing. Remember that you need to measure the true voltage your controller outputs for the throttle and calculate the resistor values you will need based on that. The above values will only work if your controller puts out exactly 5V.

Bag:
- http://a.co/eZZeDn4
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by cwah » May 14 2018 8:45pm

How many miles so far? Is the motor still loud? Still working fine?
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » May 17 2018 6:46pm

cwah wrote:
May 14 2018 8:45pm
How many miles so far? Is the motor still loud? Still working fine?
I'm probably just a bit over 250 miles now. I'm not really keeping close track TBH.

The motor has quieted down a bit both during operation and when rolling. It's still a slight touch louder than a Q100 at certain RPMs and power levels, and the clutch is still very very stiff. I'd say it hasn't changed dramatically since I previously wrote about it. While the clutch is very stiff and the wheel won't really spin much if you lift it off the ground and flick it, it doesn't seem to cause a significant amount of drag when riding unassisted.

The motor is quite impressive for it's small size and especially light weight. I'm still pleasantly surprised at the power this motor can handle. I'm just not very happy with the clutch particularly. For now I'm just enjoying the bike as it is, and at some point I'm going to open the motor up and see if I can do anything with the clutch to make it better.

And yes, the motor has been running like a champ. I have no complaints about the performance or reliability of this motor.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by JuergenH » Jun 28 2018 5:38am

for example:AKM 18040501 001 BBC 3626A
B=reduction ratio
B=motor inner gear type
C=Stator thickness of the motor
36=motor voltage
26=wheel rim 26inch=201,(20=20inch=260; 16=16inch=328)
A=motor type

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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by zro-1 » Jul 06 2018 12:02am

JuergenH wrote:
Jun 28 2018 5:38am
for example:AKM 18040501 001 BBC 3626A
B=reduction ratio
B=motor inner gear type
C=Stator thickness of the motor
36=motor voltage
26=wheel rim 26inch=201,(20=20inch=260; 16=16inch=328)
A=motor type
That is awesome information JuergenH! Thank you so much for sharing that. So here's the specs of the motor I received using the info above to decipher the tag:

AKM 170629 01002 AAD 3620A H
170629 = the date of manufacture (2017-06-29)
01002 = no idea
A = reduction ratio
A = motor inner gear type
D = Stator thickness of the motor
36 = motor voltage
20 = wheel rim (20inch=260)
A = motor type
H = the high torque version (?)

So based on the sticker, not only did I get the wrong motor AAD vs BBD, after counting the gears, what I actually got was the AAD 3616A when I ordered the BBD 3620A. That's on top of getting a shell with the spoke holes drilled incorrectly and faulty hall sensors.

When I got the replacement shell for the motor The label read:

AKM 171212 200121 BBD 3620A H
171212 = the date of manufacture (2017-12-12)
200121 = no idea
B = reduction ratio
B = motor inner gear type
D = Stator thickness of the motor
36 = motor voltage
20 = wheel rim (20inch=260)
A = motor type
H = the high torque version (?)

Which is correct for what I had ordered.

This just reinforces my earlier belief that I was shipped a lemon and the wrong part lemon to boot. My recommendation for you guys going forward is to get BMSBattery to send you a pic of the motor label before you purchase to confirm that they are sending you the correct motor.
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by amberwolf » Jul 06 2018 1:58am

Somewhat OT, but:

FWIW, even that isn't a guarantee, unless you truly trust them to send you a pic of the actual unit they will send you, that they actually have in their hand right at that moment.

Based on the somewhat random nature of the problems people have with getting the right stuff from BMSB, I'm not certain that they actually stock all the stuff they sell, but rather go out and find some of the items as-needed, so that people get teh wrong stuff when BMSB can't easily find what they *should* send and instead send whatever they *do* find. And sometimes when they do this (send the wrong thing), they stop talking to you, period. Sometimes they keep talking, and will fix their problem, but not always for free like they should.

They've been this way for as long as they've been posted about on ES, AFAICT; some members rave about the great service/etc, and some rant about the problems. I've no direct experience, just what I've read here on ES. (but based on that, I wouldn't send any money to them myself).

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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by JuergenH » Jul 06 2018 2:51am

Image
zro-1 wrote:
Jul 06 2018 12:02am
JuergenH wrote:
Jun 28 2018 5:38am
for example:AKM 18040501 001 BBC 3626A
B=reduction ratio
B=motor inner gear type
C=Stator thickness of the motor
36=motor voltage
26=wheel rim 26inch=201,(20=20inch=260; 16=16inch=328)
A=motor type
That is awesome information JuergenH! Thank you so much for sharing that. So here's the specs of the motor I received using the info above to decipher the tag:

AKM 170629 01002 AAD 3620A H
170629 = the date of manufacture (2017-06-29)
01002 = no idea
A = reduction ratio
A = motor inner gear type
D = Stator thickness of the motor
36 = motor voltage
20 = wheel rim (20inch=260)
A = motor type
H = the high torque version (?)

So based on the sticker, not only did I get the wrong motor AAD vs BBD, after counting the gears, what I actually got was the AAD 3616A when I ordered the BBD 3620A. That's on top of getting a shell with the spoke holes drilled incorrectly and faulty hall sensors.

When I got the replacement shell for the motor The label read:

AKM 171212 200121 BBD 3620A H
171212 = the date of manufacture (2017-12-12)
200121 = no idea
B = reduction ratio
B = motor inner gear type
D = Stator thickness of the motor
36 = motor voltage
20 = wheel rim (20inch=260)
A = motor type
H = the high torque version (?)

Which is correct for what I had ordered.

This just reinforces my earlier belief that I was shipped a lemon and the wrong part lemon to boot. My recommendation for you guys going forward is to get BMSBattery to send you a pic of the motor label before you purchase to confirm that they are sending you the correct motor.
Hi, 200121 is the factory's production serial number, i can only sure AKM 170629 01002 AAD 3620A H is AKM-100SXH 20inch motor.
It seems that the code of the front and the rear motor is different.
The AKM-100SXH rear motor 26inch i have code is :BBC3626A-H, AKM-100SXH front motor 16inch code is: AAD3616A-H
Sometimes there is no H letter on the 100H motor but appearance of the 100 and 100H motors is also different, please check the picture :D :D :D
Attachments
100 and 100h motor.jpg
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by -dg » Jul 09 2018 10:50pm

JuergenH wrote:
Jul 06 2018 2:51am
Sometimes there is no H letter on the 100H motor but appearance of the 100 and 100H motors is also different, please check the picture :D :D :D
Hmmm, now I feel stupid, because I'm not seeing it. What is different in the picture? Thanks!
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Re: Single-speed track stealth ultralight

Post by JuergenH » Jul 10 2018 3:40am

-dg wrote:
Jul 09 2018 10:50pm
JuergenH wrote:
Jul 06 2018 2:51am
Sometimes there is no H letter on the 100H motor but appearance of the 100 and 100H motors is also different, please check the picture :D :D :D
Hmmm, now I feel stupid, because I'm not seeing it. What is different in the picture? Thanks!
you can check it again of this photo, you will see the different :D :D :D
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100motor.png
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