'98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

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'98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Nov 22 2017 12:06pm

As parts roll in I have started to assemble the ebike
Had the panamint frame shipped to Canada from Mexico City years ago as a new old stock frame its still in minty condition without marks chips or paint flaws despite being 19 years old.

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The frame is a 21 inch mtb frame = 3.6lbs
Manitou Scrarab Elite fork = 3.1 lbs
Front wheel with Mxus 350w Hub = 8.3lbs
Nexus 4-sp internally geared hub = 3 lbs
xt and xtr with ritchey bars stem headset
carbon bar ends

Started the thread to share photos / videos of my lightish weight ebike build then ride performance.

The Motor a mxus xf07 2.8kg geared hub motor is reported to have 60nm of torque and can make 1hp / 750w at higher voltages.

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The stickers say 26" 350w and 36v.which is odd as normally the 48v version is 350w

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If you have something similar feel free to add photos or links of your ebike / part choices and educate us.

Will add more photos when further parts arrive and the build starts to progress. Currently the rear wheel is being laced and its getting close to completion

Still waiting for the battery pas sensor and various switches to arrive

Performance gain

Will be adding on a set of mid 90's old stock Rito aerobar clip ons to the handlebars to reduce drag at speed.




I found out they do make a 36v 350w version they call it the upgraded version on ebikebc with a 350w nominal 550w max rating.Makes me think i'll get 450w out of it @48v.

Rated for 60nm torque at 36v , the inside of the upgraded xf07 looks pretty bad ass

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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Nov 30 2017 1:32pm

I normally use Clinchers but bought a set 2.00 tires for the ebuild.
After checking the numbers using this http://bikecalculator.com/examples.html cycle calculator I will be using a set of Clinchers on the ebike.

Using the calculator it shows that I would gain 5 kmh for top speed and arrive about 25% sooner. Not sure how to convert it to ebike battery distances as a lot of real life factors come into play.

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I guesstimate the tires and aerobars will increase distance by about 35% optimistically using clip on aerobars with a set of clinchers.

My current ride with 1.25 slicks on

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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by LewTwo » Dec 07 2017 8:33pm

Hard to tell from the pics. Is this a front or rear hub motor?
oops ... guess I should have looked at the title.
Did you ever get this finished ?
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Dec 07 2017 9:15pm

Yeah thats just my pedal bike
Still waiting for a slow boat from China shipping the battery also I re-ordered a little KT controller rated for 36v 20A or 48v 22A 350-500w.
Hoping to have it on the road by early January.

Side note decided to nix the clincher idea and use some low rr 2.00 tires for their added safety and versatility.
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by LewTwo » Dec 08 2017 2:54am

Side note decided to nix the clincher idea and use some low rr 2.00 tires for their added safety and versatility.
You might find this story interesting ...
http://www.velonews.com/where-the-rubbe ... tires-fast

Unless you go for sewup, I think you find nearly all current bicycles are clinchers ... I could be wrong (that happened at least once before).
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Dec 08 2017 12:13pm

That was informative , Amazing how well the Specialized S-works Turbo tire did vs the Tubular tires pretty much neck and neck with 31.6 vs 32.8 rr vs 53 and 59 of the bottom contenders. It seems Specialized has some kind of Flubber rubber ! ..
side note Clinchers relate to the tires thin profile to be in the mix you must "look" the part
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Dec 14 2017 10:07pm

for a change of pace and improved all weather braking I deiced to swap out the v-brakes and picked up a nexus IM55 roller brake and a TRP spyre mech disc for the manitou fork.

Im happy to be moving away from v-brakes for the ebuild as the faster you cruise the more important the stopping distance becomes .

Its nice to stop when you pull the levers not slow like with my wet v-brakes

IM65 180gr.
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TRP Spyre ~ 154 gr. wheel
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IM55 ~ 650 gr. 140mm cooling disc
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Im debating using a front derailleur i may well end up ditching it and just resize the sprocket to suit the bikes need.
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by motomech » Dec 15 2017 10:33am

I like the mech. disc brk.s on my GT. They are strong w/ good feel, but are kind of noisey compared to hydros.
Front derailleur- On thing for sure, w/ a motor, you won't be shifting it. You can remove it, but you may experience the chain jumping off. On my Rocky Mountain, I had to add a bolt-on guard to the big chain ring and re-adjust te derailleur to prevent that.
On my GT, I left everything intact, but slid the shifter down on the bars and turned it around so it is underneith. It's completely out of the way and I don't even realize it's there. That way, the derailleur is still there to prevent chain jumping.
On both bikes, the vacant space where the shifter was is where I place my left-hand throttle(s).
Larger chain rings-On my RM, I went from a 44T to a 50T, the largest that would fit. W/ the 11T X 50T gearing, I can peal up to 22-23 mph.
My GT came w/ a 48T, which is good for 20-22 mph.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Dec 15 2017 7:23pm

Are you using the same brakes or what models brakes are you using ?
I chose the spyre on peoples recommendations over the BB7 which I was thinking of using.


This Panamint frame has pesky vertical drop outs with them and the IG nexus hub it requires a chain tensioner to wit I picked up the Alfine c5000 tensioner. With it can use two chain rings upfront and swap out rear sprocket without having to resize the chain.

As the chain line never changes with a IG hub the chain should not be dropping much especially using the Alfine tensioner , it feels stronger then derailleur springs its a little beast of a tensioner.

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I think I will end up leaving the 2nd 39 chain ring on and I'll have it if a need arises and can flip on by hand. It weighs next to nothing so i might as well leave it on in this circumstance.

Choosing a pedal was no easy task I have been looking for weeks and never felt good enough about a pedal until I came across and bought the below pedal set for $30 , it ships from the u.s

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Features:
Made of magnesium alloy with CNC outer case, sturdy axis make for long term durable use.
Corrosion resistant spindle and anti-slip locking spikes.
Big platform shape for long ride comfort and pedaling efficiency.
Smoothly spinning axis increases riding experience.

Material: Magnesium Alloy

Size: 104 x 97 x 22mm
3 sealed bearings
Spindle: Cr-mo CNC machined
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Jan 30 2018 10:15pm

3 months later the ebike rolls out the door for its first test ride , its been a painfully slow build now finally its play time , Zing.

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It pedals excellently I kid you not it feels sweet to pedal without the motor going. The front Air shock is air tuned to my weight perfectly and makes for a luxurious feeling ride Its set at 50% of my ride weight (as the manual suggests) and seems about perfect.

The nexus hub is silent I thought it worth mentioning there no distracting clicking noise in the background when your not pedaling.

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So far at 48v partial charge the Top speed on level ground is 38.5Kmh one direction and 37K coming back the other direction. im hoping it will reach 40kmh with a full charge :)
When I get a chance to run tests @ 54.6v I will post the resulting top speed.

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There is 12AH of 48v in the day pack for the test ride but also have 13AH of 36v in a SLR camera case that fits snugly on the bikes back half rack.

Side note , I spend much money and time waiting for bike and ebike parts to arrive , the rear wheel cost more then the front hub motor wheel I have $250 in the rear wheel and $230 in the front wheel
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 02 2018 10:57pm

On the way to the store today i got chance to do a speed run along the waterfront

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I made this run without paying attention to wind speed or direction so will do a 2nd proper speed run when I know the wind is still.

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I left home with a full charge 54.6v and arrived back after 18K with 50.5 volt remaining so used about 25% of the capacity. Both throttle and PAS were set to level 4 out of 5 after the speed run.
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by motomech » Feb 03 2018 12:33am

<<<<<< So far at 48v partial charge the Top speed on level ground is 38.5Kmh one direction and 37K coming back the other direction. im hoping it will reach 40kmh with a full charge :)
When I get a chance to run tests @ 54.6v I will post the resulting top speed.

There is 12AH of 48v in the day pack for the test ride but also have 13AH of 36v in a SLR camera case that fits snugly on the bikes back half rack.>>>>
I ran your numbers in the Ebike CA sim. and it shows you have the the mid-speed (260 rpm @ 36 V) motor, which is great! My first build was that motor:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... al#p312910
The same sim. show 40.6 Kph(25.54) mph at 54.5 Volts, but that seems a little high. You might not quite get that as the controller might not provide enough Current. I bet it will be more like 24 Mph.
I started w/ a rear rack battery and it balanced the frt. motor nicely. But it was small (48V/11Ah) and relatively light and when I moved to more capacity, I moved the batteries to the frame triangle. Much better balance and handling. I never felt inclined to carry a battery pack on my body.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49691&p=1378484#p1378484

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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 03 2018 2:49am

Hey that's good to hear the motor calculator summed up 40.6kph peak it means its possible , I will do more tests I did not do a back and forth run that time instead just maxed out on a straight stretch a few blocks from the house. 260 rpm rocks

This was done with the current restricted to 14.66 Amps one step up from its lowest setting of 11 amps max current. It moves up in increments from setting 3 to 7 and max is called 10 , its set on level 4 = 14.66A x 54.5 = 798 watts when I look at the motor calculator the xfo7 maxes out at somewhere under 750w
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by fechter » Feb 03 2018 1:54pm

Looks great.

You might consider adding a thin plastic splash guard behind the controller to keep wheel spray from getting it wet. While it's "sealed" the controller is prone to water damage.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 03 2018 2:54pm

The look is growing on me Im feeling more confident about being in public with it...As Im not at all sure how people will take it ,Thanks for your comment and suggestion. It makes sense to to do that and would keep me dryer as well.


My plan is to make a canned foam insulation dash to mount a DVR for a rear view mirror fed video from a rear facing under seat mounted sony effio camera.

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it will be mounted low in the fairing where it will be darkest.

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With I will be able to record rear video and have a rear view mirror the front camera is a HD200 Sony action cam with speed read out that will be mounted under the display via its gopro mount. I will also use a chest mount for variety. The cool thing is when the sony cam is under the display it gives the picture the border of the fairing which looks a bit like the view from our eyes in a first person "brow shadow" kind of way. I like the look that action cams give when there is something close in the foreground like that.
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 04 2018 8:44pm

On the way to the store on the same straight stretch today it stayed between 39.6k to 39.8k and peaked at 40.2 kmh.

Speed run (?) was done at 50.1 volts

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The battery is at 46.8v with 36 km on this charge.
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by motomech » Feb 04 2018 9:27pm

Your bike is a little faster than mine was, perhaps it's rider weight :roll:
Now that you have confirmed that it will do 25 mph, have you considered mounting some decent road tires?
Hate to sound like a fuddy-duddy, but at that speed and above, the importance of tire safety, like power consumption, goes up exponentially.
Or, since you made a good choice and upgraded the brakes, why not combine them with tires that can use their potential?
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 04 2018 10:48pm

There not anything special something i can put miles on with a degree of safety and somewhat low rr.

I was reading low rr tire reviews when I came across these schwalbe landcruiser tires with reviews on different sites all stating the tire rolled very well it was a common theme with it and I liked the treads center strip design so order a pair from the Uk.

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They roll quiet and have a kevlar puncture layer
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 04 2018 11:10pm

motomech wrote:
Feb 04 2018 9:27pm
Your bike is a little faster than mine was, perhaps it's rider weight :roll:
Rider weight must play a part , the ebike motor calculator does not show much effect for weight variation. Early today I was looking into weight and speed and found a 350lb rider travels a meager 2 kph slower then me. That can't be right.

My ride weight is 185 lbs plus 38 lb bike so about 225
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by motomech » Feb 05 2018 6:53pm

eCue wrote:
Feb 04 2018 10:48pm
There not anything special something i can put miles on with a degree of safety and somewhat low rr.

I was reading low rr tire reviews when I came across these schwalbe landcruiser tires with reviews on different sites all stating the tire rolled very well it was a common theme with it and I liked the treads center strip design so order a pair from the Uk.

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They roll quiet and have a kevlar puncture layer
That's a great looking tire! If I ventured off the pavement, those would be my choice.
Due to something we have here in the South West U.S., called Goat's head thorns, even staying on the streets and paths, flat tires have been the single re-occurring issue for my ebike experience. I tried the usual preventive stop-gaps, extra thick tubes, tubes w. Slime, liners, etc. But not till I combined a "flat resistant" tire w/ an extra thick tube did the flat tire issue disappear. Mt first combo was the Forte Gotham tire w/ their extra thick tube and although they did stop the flats, there was a price. The Gothams, being a $15 budget tire, does not use Kevlar and the flat resistant layer is very thick and spongy. Combined w/ the extra thick tubes, the resultant ride was very squirmy, almost to the point of being un-nerving.
Gotham.jpg
Gotham.jpg (106.65 KiB) Viewed 1334 times
But when one of the Forte tires developed the cracking shown in the pic, I switched to a "new to me" tire, the WTB "Slick" hybrid urban;
71xLrDUUE5L._SL256_.jpg
71xLrDUUE5L._SL256_.jpg (18.83 KiB) Viewed 1334 times
Although the "Flat Guard" is not Kevlar, it's much thinner and even though I'm still using the Forte tubes, the squirminess is much reduced. And overall, the $26 WTB tire is much nicer than the Forte. And I really like the 1.85" size, probably the largest tire that will fit the standard Ebike kit rim comfortably.
After you have some miles on the Land Cruisers, you should post a review here, as I don't anyone has reviewd them yet.
Last edited by motomech on Feb 06 2018 5:41am, edited 1 time in total.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49691&p=1378484#p1378484

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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 05 2018 9:34pm

That forte tire let go early it must of been around for awhile my pedal bikes front Manitou knobby tire is like that ..its a twenty years old ( mostly off a rim )
The wtb SLICK looks like it rolls nice with the low slung tread looks grippy like tennis shoes.
I should indeed do a review of the Landcruiser tires I ride pretty hard ie jump curbs and make fast leaning corners. I noticed so far they corner great infact i speed up threw the corners as denoted by looking at the speedo in the corner , usually gain 2 kph while in the lean and on the edge of the tire.
So far the side lugs have not made a noise even when leaning in on a 90 degree corner at 35k the tire is quiet with no sense of slip. 60 psi allows for hard cornering low psi and they would likely slide out
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 05 2018 11:18pm

I forgot to mention they are not remotely supple so they roll firm have a hard as rock sidewall and weigh around 650-700 grams each. Supple tires roll faster but are more delicate
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by motomech » Feb 06 2018 5:39am

Yeah, but flats are not "delicate" at all.
How tires roll is not that important on an ebike.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49691&p=1378484#p1378484

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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by eCue » Feb 06 2018 11:49am

A thick casing makes for a durable tire especially the sidwall which I tend to split.
Food for thought when using Rim strip it allows the use of lower psi compared to using electrical tape. The Rim strip makes what feels like a steel band inside the wheel compared to electrical tapes suspended feel. At 50 psi with racing type rim strip the tread feels harder then 50 psi with electrical tape. They also help a lot to prevent internal flats.
Off roaders seem to like the electrical tape fine the higher pressure does not help them
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Re: '98 Quintana Roo panamint mxus xf07 350w fr hub

Post by beast775 » Feb 06 2018 1:19pm

Nice build,ive always liked the small geared hubs on the front, keep an eye on the axle :wink:
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