Schwinn FS Dual Hub / ASI Controllers AWD from 10Kw to 17.6Kw 73.6mph

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evolutiongts   10 kW

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Schwinn FS Dual Hub / ASI Controllers AWD from 10Kw to 17.6Kw 73.6mph

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 01 2018 9:28pm

Frame:
Schwinn 405

Batteries:
18650 72V 26AH LG 2200Mah MF1 cells

Motors:
Front: 750W Front Hub
Rear: MXUS 3K Turbo 3T

Controllers:
Front: Grin Phase Runner FOC
Rear: Sabvoton 72100A

Tires:
Front: 16" x 2.75
Rear: 16" x 2.75
Attachments
IMG_3501.JPG
IMG_3504.JPG
IMG_3511.JPG
IMG_3513.JPG
Last edited by evolutiongts on Jul 03 2018 8:08pm, edited 8 times in total.
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: 2WD Corner Carving Racer

Post by fechter » Mar 01 2018 11:20pm

That looks like it will go fast.

Does have a chain? I don't see the chain ring in the pics.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 02 2018 2:56am

Haven't got a chance to hook up a chain yet.
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Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
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10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
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tahitiboob   100 mW

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by tahitiboob » Mar 02 2018 2:58am

hello

i can't see the picture

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by amberwolf » Mar 02 2018 3:29am

Neither can I; it's on some third-party site rather than attached to the post where anyone that can see the post could see the images.


I recommend always using the Attachments tab to upload images directly to the ES post itself, so everyone can see them and they don't disappear when the other site goes away or changes how they work.

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 02 2018 11:59am

Its fixed.
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Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by amberwolf » Mar 02 2018 12:52pm

It looks a lot bigger than it actually is. :)

Lots of power--what is the acceleration time?

The battery pack reminds me of a packed parachute. ;)


Are you planning on torque arms on the front for later? Looks like torque plates or blocks on the rear already; cant' quite see that area very well.

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 14 2018 2:40am

Bike has been down for about a week, redid the battery pack now it is 72V 30Ah.

-Grin TA both sides of the fork
-Redid my rear torque arm / plates
-Will be running dual regenerative brakes
-Have to install dual projector lamps
-Tune the Phase Runner / Front Motor
-Have a 135mm steel fork that I will have to mount
-Will possibly be upgrading to a 1500W Front Hub
-Upgraded my wiring to 10awg / 8awg / 6awg
-MXUS 3K Turbo phase wires are upgraded to 8AWG
-Controller to Battery is 6AWG
-Front hub upgraded to 10AWG Phase Wires.
Attachments
IMG_3652.JPG
IMG_3654.JPG
IMG_3705.JPG
IMG_3706.JPG
IMG_3727.JPG
IMG_3729.JPG
IMG_3731.JPG
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
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evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 16 2018 12:15pm

Dual Regen brakes wired up, using proportional / variable regen with a single right hand throttle.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 17 2018 3:05am

Wired up LED lights running off a AC adapter, 12V 6A output.

Running 2 CA's that track each system front and rear motor.

Both Systems can regen at the same time.

LED lights have Halo mode.

High beam, low beam, and strobe.

They each have a on and off switch.

Consumption is 4-6W for the Halo Lens, 20W for Halo and High Beam lights.
Attachments
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IMG_3796.JPG
IMG_3796.JPG (61.37 KiB) Viewed 2501 times
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by John in CR » Mar 17 2018 10:18pm

How's it handle on loose stuff? I've talked about building a 2wd for years with 2 benefits in mind:
1. First of course, is having the extra power with double the cooling.
2. Handling, I've always thought that having a powered front wheel would be a benefit if traction is lost on the front wheel, because even in the slickest of situations the front while under power would provide at least some force trying to keep you upright. I remember 8 years ago my front wheel drive first hubbie had a positive effect when I encountered loose gravel or sand on the street instead of just sliding out from under me with unpowered fronts since. Anything that reduces the chance of eating any more asphalt is a plus in my book, and before anyone goes there, each and every occasion was while going slow and at low power.

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Re: 2WD 16" Moped Tires 3000W/8000W Corner Carving Racer

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 18 2018 6:12am

John in CR wrote:
Mar 17 2018 10:18pm
How's it handle on loose stuff? I've talked about building a 2wd for years with 2 benefits in mind:
1. First of course, is having the extra power with double the cooling.
2. Handling, I've always thought that having a powered front wheel would be a benefit if traction is lost on the front wheel, because even in the slickest of situations the front while under power would provide at least some force trying to keep you upright. I remember 8 years ago my front wheel drive first hubbie had a positive effect when I encountered loose gravel or sand on the street instead of just sliding out from under me with unpowered fronts since. Anything that reduces the chance of eating any more asphalt is a plus in my book, and before anyone goes there, each and every occasion was while going slow and at low power.
Hey John, I haven't really tested 2WD on the dirt, I built this bike to be a capable street machine and eventually track weapon.

1. Cooling / Power is one of the reasons I am developing 2WD. A MXUS 3K Turbo mounted in the rear is getting very warm / hot when ridden spiritedly. It is a light motor, 20lbs. I am trying to see pairing it to a front hub will make the motor run cooler and more effectively. Having a 20lbs hub compared to a 30lbs hub like the QS motor makes the hub handle much better. I am still tuning the setup closer to 50/50 power split. Right now its 1/5, so its rear bias.

2. The front hub acts as a stablizer so that straight line acceleration is very smooth because you now have forward propulsion, also moving some of that weight from rear to the front by using a lighter rear hub results in a better balanced, better handling machine. I barely got to ride the bike today, it is still undergoing tuning or other developments. Using 2 Cycle Analyst to monitor both systems independently.
Attachments
IMG_3805.JPG
IMG_3805.JPG (106.19 KiB) Viewed 2432 times
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http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
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evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 21 2018 4:38pm

Power split is now closer to 40/50 at low speeds and steadily becomes rear bias.

Front motor tops out at 38A, Rear Hub doing 77A. The sprint to 54mph is incredible, with acceleration coming from front and rear hub. Handling is excellent as well, although I have to increase the throttle mid corner / corner exit just like RWD just it is still rear bias. Consumption increased a bit, due to inefficiencies from running dual hubs. Dual regen braking is awesome (variable / proportional)
Attachments
IMG_4050.jpg
IMG_4059.jpg
IMG_4063.jpg
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by fechter » Mar 22 2018 8:15am

What's your Whr/mile?
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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by motomech » Mar 23 2018 3:37am

I ck'ed out some of your Kart track race vids, very impressive, especially mixing it up w/ the 50cc mini's (motorcycles, not bicycles). I raced the first non YSR bike w/ the defunct CMRRA back in the early '90's and I know how fast the mini roadracers are.
These days, I would think gas is easy compared to doing it electric.
Can you get racing compound tires?
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'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
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evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 23 2018 10:34am

http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 23 2018 10:34am

http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 24 2018 3:00am

Added Rear LED lights

Redid the battery enclosure

Moving to a 135mm steel fork and a 135mm hub up front in the future.

Going with grippier tires and a extended swingarm on the way.

3KW Front / 7KW Rear

Still trying to find the optimal power split ratio / ramping.

Was most efficient when 2WD was rear bias 20/80

Its about 30 / 70 right now. Handling is better but consumption has gone up.
Attachments
IMG_4158.jpg
IMG_4173.jpg
IMG_4183.jpg
IMG_4192.jpg
IMG_4197.jpg
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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tahitiboob   100 mW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by tahitiboob » Mar 24 2018 7:46am

do you have video?

evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 24 2018 11:05am

Not at the moment.

Here are the 2 motor / systems that I am running. Front and rear respectively. Bare in mind both controllers are sinewave and FOC. Field weakening boosts unloaded RPM to about 1050RPM.
Attachments
motor profiles compar.jpg
motor profiles linked.jpg
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » Mar 28 2018 12:23am

2WD Rocks

Top speed so far is 58mph.

2WD takes off from a stop very quick, almost unreal.

2WD still has very impressive handling, I don't really notice the addition weight up front.

Dual Variable / Proportional Regen is awesome. I rarely use the disc brakes.

Acceleration is quite mind numbing.
Attachments
IMG_4324.jpg
IMG_4319.jpg
IMG_4284.jpg
IMG_4292.jpg
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by fechter » Mar 28 2018 9:06am

How about posting a video of the acceleration? I like the lights.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » Apr 15 2018 10:09pm

Sorry still no videos yet, my old GoPro Hero 3+ black edition has seen better days.

Pulls harder than a QS 205 and probably equivalent to a QS 273 in terms of torque and acceleration.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: 2WD 10Kw Schwinn 405

Post by evolutiongts » May 07 2018 1:05am

Finally some footage,

Power has climbed from 10Kw to 17.6Kw

Front Hub still at 3Kw output from the phase runner
Rear Hub has increased from 100A to 183A

Top speed has increased from 58mph to 73.6mph



Attachments
amps.jpg
amps.jpg (56.32 KiB) Viewed 1480 times
CA top speed.jpg
CA top speed.jpg (19.84 KiB) Viewed 1480 times
Schwinn 405.jpg
Schwinn 405.jpg (96.55 KiB) Viewed 1478 times
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: Schwinn FS Dual Hub AWD from 10Kw to 17.6Kw 73.6mph

Post by fechter » May 07 2018 2:25pm

Thanks for posting the video. Looks fast. And you weren't even pedaling :!:
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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