Appel Electric Cruiser

Show off your E-bike creation here.
User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4674
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by izeman » Nov 05 2018 3:14am

The layout as shown would work, but only without spacers. I learned that it's recommended to have at least tristar shaped spacers between all cells, to avoid any possible shorts that may happen if the battery flexes and the regular heatshrink may fail.
The cells can be glued together and will be held together be the nickel as well. Still they need support as there should be no stress on the welding points.

User avatar
APL   100 W

100 W
Posts: 102
Joined: Aug 06 2018 8:44pm

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by APL » Nov 06 2018 2:10pm

Thanks for the info. izeman, I re-read your Kona build, awesome bike! :thumb: Lots of great information there, and a
surprisingly similar battery pack to this one. I defiantly need some kind of spacers.

Well, as usual, I've got a lot of research to do on this idea. The power density, and price is way better than the
drill packs. But the pain in the ass factor is way up. The battery cell arrangement is easy enough, but wiring
up a bunch of BMS's and welding the cells ..isn't.

Well, this build is still a little in the mist yet, and I have to figure out the finances, and 'build timing' yet,.. where
I'm going to fit it in. When I do, (hopefully soon) I'll open a new thread in this category.
Have to say though, I'm liking this bike more and more!

I need to do some tube bending experiments first.

For now, I need to concentrate on this motor build, or it's never going to get done. :)

User avatar
APL   100 W

100 W
Posts: 102
Joined: Aug 06 2018 8:44pm

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by APL » Nov 06 2018 2:24pm

Speaking of which,..I got the axle aluminum the other day,.. a solid chunk of 6061 3" wide and 6" long.

Not the 7000 series we talked about, but strong enough for a prototype.

3%22 X 6%22  round stock.jpg
3%22 X 6%22 round stock.jpg (35.81 KiB) Viewed 227 times

Somewhere in there is an axle,.. screaming to get out! :)

Unfortunately, my little crap lathe isn't up to snuff these days, and I'm trying to locate a better one.
Trying to find a lathe on Craigslist is like pulling teeth! The right price, the right place, and finding an
actual functioning human being to buy it from, is near impossible! :roll:

But I will prevail!

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 24962
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by amberwolf » Nov 06 2018 10:25pm

Being unable to get the poster of an item to either respond in a useful way, or sell something to you is really frustrating. I've been around and around that with old mopeds and motorcycles, trying to source parts for my more extreme-load cargo stuff. :/

Keep an eye on your local Freecycle / ReUseIt lists, too.

I got an ancient 1930's? 40s? South Bend lathe several years back that way. Required some cleanup, but was usable as-is (though I barely know how to use it). Have done some small work with it now and then, but only with crappy HarborFright cutting tools (weren't any with it). Used it as a sideways drillpress a few times, too. Someday I'd like to get better cutting tools for it, and learn how to really use it, especially since it's possible to cut gears and threaded items with it too. (I think I have some of the gears to do certain threads, but I've yet to learn how to set it up for that). I could make my own axles if I ever got that far.

User avatar
APL   100 W

100 W
Posts: 102
Joined: Aug 06 2018 8:44pm

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by APL » Nov 08 2018 2:37pm

Yea, the Craigslist experience is an acquired skill. I discovered the 'all' search mode at the top of the category selection
box, that searches all the category's at once. Theres a lot of people that don't put things in the right place, or even
call them the right thing. I have to get creative in how to ask for something.

But, it payed off finally! I just picked up an older South Bend, like yours, yesterday for only $400. :!: About a third of
what they usually go for around here. It was in the 'general' category, instead of 'tools'. I had to drive a hundred miles,
and call the guy every hour, to keep him honest, and make sure he didn't sell to someone else for a higher price,..
which has happened to me twice now.

It's a bit crusty, but South Bend's are all excellent lathes, and made to run forever. Built back when people cared about
quality. Eventually I'll get it all cleaned up and looking sweet.
This one is a South Bend 9" 'Junior' model. Late 20's early 30's. 3 foot bed.

This is how I found it.
My totaly awesome South bend lathe.jpg

I don't know how to run a lathe either,.. so it will be a learning experience for us both. I used to share a shop with a
machinist so I have a little residual knowledge about them from that, but that's about it. It's a machine I've needed for the
last 30 years and I'm excited to finally have one. Between the mill and the lathe, there isn't to much you can't do.

Luckily, this axle is aluminum, so it shouldn't be to hard to do,.. just an awful lot of turning to pull a skinny little axle out
of a three inch bar! That will give me some practice. The bearing surfaces are going to be touchy though. :?

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10596
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 08 2018 3:07pm

Start watching youtubes from "this old Tony", and the right column thumbnails will have other suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/user/featony/videos

You are halfway to being ready for the zombie-pocalypse...

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 24962
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by amberwolf » Nov 08 2018 4:49pm

The South Bend Lathe website (or it's wayback machine version) has all their old instructional films up as video files, and they have the manuals for them, too.

EDIT: apparently they don't anymore (not that I can find) but there's a bunch on YT, including "how to run a lathe":
https://www.google.com/search?q=South+B ... CuEQ_AUIBg

There is also a forum Practical Machinist that has a lot of good info on these lathes, including restoration help.
https://www.google.com/search?q=forum+P ... 0QrQIIHDAA

User avatar
APL   100 W

100 W
Posts: 102
Joined: Aug 06 2018 8:44pm

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by APL » Nov 10 2018 2:04pm

Yea, the little 600 sq. ft. shop is getting full these days, I have to walk sideways most of the time. The only tools I'm
missing now are a Tig welder, and a metal band saw.

Thanks for the link's guys, You Tube is such a savior. :!: The most helpful one so far has been the HSS tool bit sharpening
vid. It show's exactly whats going on with the business end, and how it needs to be used. I like the idea of grinding my own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__A2xtLF0AU&t=1539s

Of course they're all helpful, and I'll be watching a lot of them for a while..

Right now I'm trying to get the lathe mounted up on the bench, and running again. After three days of moving a 300 lb+
machine around, plus a 100 lb+ motor assembly, I'm about as sore as I've ever been. :(

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 24962
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by amberwolf » Nov 11 2018 12:06am

Need more people with shops (and that know how to use them, and have time) down here in Phoenix. ;)

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4674
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by izeman » Nov 12 2018 2:18pm

spinningmagnets wrote:
Nov 08 2018 3:07pm
Start watching youtubes from "this old Tony", and the right column thumbnails will have other suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/user/featony/videos

You are halfway to being ready for the zombie-pocalypse...
This old Tony is AMAZING. I love his videos. Unfortunately they are not invinite.

User avatar
APL   100 W

100 W
Posts: 102
Joined: Aug 06 2018 8:44pm

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by APL » Nov 14 2018 8:01pm

I like Tony, .. he's to the point and edits his videos very well. Some of those guys go on, and on...
I'll be checking out a lot more of his stuff,.. as he has plenty, especially the TIG ones.

Well, the lathe project goes on, and on too. I'm going through the belt splice thing right now. This
will be the third splice going into the old leather belt, The previous ones were masters of 'splice',
but mine is not going to be a 'looker'. I should just get a new one, but I'll give this a shot first.

Belt splice.jpg
Belt splice.jpg (97.84 KiB) Viewed 94 times

Plus, some fool put the on/off switch next to the chuck, so I have to risk mangling myself every time. :confused:
Thats got to change. :!:

The chuck is worn out, so that will be the next thing to buy, and the lantern style tool post leaves a bit to be
desired, so a quick change will be in order there too, along with some carbide bits. $$$!!!!
But for now, I think I can squeak by with what I have.

Bench lathe.jpg
Bench lathe.jpg (88.2 KiB) Viewed 94 times

Almost ready to twirl something,.. but now I need to do the holiday thing, and visit the family for a week.
Sometimes life gets in the way,..

Happy turkey days! :)

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 24962
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by amberwolf » Nov 14 2018 10:26pm

Belt splice is easily done with steel wire "staples". I used an old leather pants belt of the right width from a thrift store, with buckle and pointed ends cut off, and was lucky enough that some staples for the purpose came with the lathe. Just had to use a drill to put the holes in the belt first. IIRC I used three staples.

The switch on mine is out front, mounted along the front edge of teh bed to teh left of the chuck.
Image

User avatar
APL   100 W

100 W
Posts: 102
Joined: Aug 06 2018 8:44pm

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by APL » Nov 16 2018 1:44pm

Very nice amberwolf, I see you have the 'Workshop' model 'C',.. I would have preferred that one, but it is what
it is. Take good care of it my friend,.. these are nice lathes, and parts are plentiful.

Well, I've made a classic noobe blunder,.. I assumed that 9" swing meant nine inches over the bed,.. all these years. :(
Makes sense to me,..but NOOO... It's the radius!! Frack me running. Why don't they just say 9" diameter?
Geez, by that logic, I can say I've got a 16" swing on my private parts... :D

Live and learn, well, it's not really 9" either, it's actually 9-3/4". :roll: This motor's stator plates are 9-1/2", so I'm just
barely under the wire. Whew!

I don't get this old world some times,.. and would it kill us to switch to metric? It's inevitable,.. so why not just do it? :!:

User avatar
wturber   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1328
Joined: Aug 23 2017 8:52pm
Location: Fountain Hills,AZ
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by wturber » Nov 16 2018 2:11pm

APL wrote:
Nov 16 2018 1:44pm

I don't get this old world some times,.. and would it kill us to switch to metric? It's inevitable,.. so why not just do it? :!:
I've been told it is inevitable since grade school ... about half a century. ;^)
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4674
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by izeman » Nov 16 2018 2:55pm

APL wrote:
Nov 16 2018 1:44pm
I don't get this old world some times,.. and would it kill us to switch to metric? It's inevitable,.. so why not just do it? :!:
Well, you do already. Somehow. Eg. mills? What kind of anachrony is this? Thousands of an inch? So you mix imperial and metric.
Use inches, feet, miles and stuff and half it, half it again, and again and again a again until you have 1/16th of it. Really strange and difficult to multiply or even add and subtract, but maybe easier if you learned it from the very beginning of you life. I personally will never understand.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 24962
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Appel Electric Cruiser

Post by amberwolf » Nov 16 2018 9:31pm

APL wrote:
Nov 16 2018 1:44pm
Very nice amberwolf, I see you have the 'Workshop' model 'C',.. I would have preferred that one, but it is what
it is. Take good care of it my friend,.. these are nice lathes, and parts are plentiful.
All the parts I've seen that I could use are out of my price range, but it works well enough as-is for the primitive work I've needed it for so far.

I got pretty lucky with finding this one, even with the problems it has. I still need to get some decent cutting tools to use with it; what I have is just harbor fright stuff.

A few times I have had things I wished I could do with it but couldn't because it's chuck is not far enough off the bed. So I have had the idea to come up with plans for raising it off the bed, so larger diameter work pieces can be used in the chuck, as long as I can bolt something to the work piece that wil stil fit in the chuck. ;)

There's probably good reasons not to do that...but since it's something I'm going to need to do at some point, and I can't buy a bigger lathe, I'll be trying it out when that time comes. :)

Post Reply