Custom 5kW Vector (QS 205v3/Kelly/DNM)

Pb1302

100 mW
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
38
Hello everyone. Been gathering parts and building my custom Vector frame ebike. A while back I seen a vid of some dude converting an MTB to an ebike nd got interested in doing my own. Well after researching some limitations of the MTB going fast (via me going down hill at 25mph), I decided it would be better to build something that could handle the speed better. So I went on the interwebs and found some Chinese frames (and many Andy Kirby and Vector videos later)...decided to go with a Vector frame build on my own.

Vector had seemed to do their homework on some key areas of frame strength and quality so I bought the frame from Artur and the journey to where I am today began. I have been gathering and building this thing for about 6 months. It has been very fun and challenging at times. Waiting for parts from all over the world has been interesting but most frustrating is building my temporary 72v battery from recycled laptop cells. It only took 3 exploding cells and a few colorful words (ok maybe more than a few) for me to get an (almost complete now) 72v 20S6P 12ah(ish) pack done. In the near future going to go with what Andy Kirby and Vortecks are running (Liito Kala 26650 5000mAh cells). Going to have as many cells as I can fit into my open space after all wiring and electronics are stowed inside. Might be able to get some kind of L shaped 10S7S packs in there as the Kelly I trolled is small and up as high as it can go. That should be a project all in its self of course...this time with a proper spot welding setup and more sleep so I can pay attention better. 😜 Enjoy the few piks and maybe some video in the future on YT.

Here are some specs of the build:
Vector Typhoon frame (with ABS side covers...little extra room for some air flow)
Kelly KLS7230S controller (w/Bluetooth programming dongle)
QS 205 V3 (5T) motor from Vector (18" moped rim...whole thing is heavy as heck)
DNM USD-8S Down hill fork (one nice fork for sure... looks very well built...stickers off...looks much better)
Front 19" moped wheel with 20mm/110mm hub
Tires are both Shinko 244 (these look awesome and make the bike look sinister)
Eclypse Single Guy Bicycle Chain Tensioner - MT-95C
RockBros Lightweight MTB pedals
CDHPOWER Single Speed 46T MTB Crankset
KMC Chain (fit almost without the tensioner...suspect a smaller diameter chain ring will fix this)
Tektro HD-E725 eBike 4 piston brakes (203mm front and rear)...these are a perfect fit...built in sensors to boot
Carbon fiber headset spacers
Bavel fixed handlebar stem riser
Aluminum Handle Bars 700mm w/40mm rise up
Aluminum seat post
Cheap and used old Bell bike seat (for now...moto might be in the future)
Twist Throttles (MA1618)...for now... not sure if half throttle will be better
84v to 12v converter...for some lights and USB charge ports
Cheap as you can get...practically free from a friend... home made 18650 battery pack...works for now... needs more power in the future (non BMS...just gonna disassemble after testing is done for my sons scooters)


Things to do and upgrade:
Moto seat...seems to be more comfortable option
Breaker instead of fuse for total disconnect/reset
Batteries (going with Liito Kala 26650s)
Charger...may upgrade from the 3A to a custom setup to charge a bit faster at home.
LED Lights to run off of 12v


Till next time...

Pete
 

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Welcome mate! keep us up to date :bigthumb:
 
Nice! Where did you get the Tektro HD-E725 brake set?
Funnily enough I recently ordered 120 LiitoKala 26650's myself, along with a "smart" BMS. They should arrive just in time for the holidays for me to be too busy to do much with 'em. :D
 
Garen said:
Nice! Where did you get the Tektro HD-E725 brake set?
Funnily enough I recently ordered 120 LiitoKala 26650's myself, along with a "smart" BMS. They should arrive just in time for the holidays for me to be too busy to do much with 'em. :D

I got them from Matt Hughes at https://www.empoweredcycles.com/. Super nice guy. Had everything I needed for the brakes. They were a great deal ($220-$250 for both I think?). I’m sure he has more in stock. I also got a bleed kit so can’t remember the breakdown. It was also cheap. He has a great small shop here in NorCal and I drove an hour just to get them my self and say hi. He mainly does Bafang kits but he has more eBike stuff and been doing bike stuff for a while. Definitely getting more bits from him if I need them.

If you are doing a big bike like mine...get those brakes. Well worth the stopping power. And not crazy on the wallet.
 
Finished my "mad scientist" battery last night. All went well...81 volts from both packs in series so tested it out last night and it all ran well upside down of course just testing it.

This morning I went through the wiring and tidied it all up to also run through it all and make sure it would survive as mounted inside and out of the way. Got some wire loom and plenty of zip ties to make it as neat as possible. I don't like wires all over the place even with the covers on ... just makes it more secure and I know the wires are not rubbing on random things. Got that all buttoned up and happy for now. Once I get the LiitoKala 26650 battery bank built...I will most likely move my fuse/breaker and coil onto a bracket made from aluminum to ensure it looks like it belongs and is mechanically mounted well. The entire coil is metal and the posts are exposed (taped for now) so I don't like that setup with all the wiring in there. If it ever moves anywhere... don't need it to contact anythings. So i will build a plastic shield/cover for the top of it to protect those contacts. For now... zip ties are securing it to a frame piece inside that has convenient holes in it... works great thus far.

Managed to somehow forget to wire up a diode as my printed out Kelly Controller manual was a bit blurry and I missed it. Wired it up...(wrong way first time) blew the 2A fuse... (thank God). Figured out what went wrong and wired it up correctly on the coil, replaced fuse and all lit back up just fine. Phew...was not ready to replace a controller this early in the game.

Later this evening.. buttoned it all up, programmed it for 40A max for now and took her for a spin. All went well and it was so weird traveling on something that silent. Motor made some weird clicking sounds at first hard throttle but went away after a few passes later. Interesting sound... maybe it was my rear rotor as it has a wavy shape hitting the caliper? Did not seem to disappear for about 30 seconds or so and only became apparent on hard throttle. So me and my boys on their regular bikes went for a stroll around the neighborhood. It was sad to pull away from them so easy...and putting the bike in the grass fields was awesome. No struggle for the suspension or the rider. Used some pedal power and throttle to see what that felt like on some stretch of concrete... that was a neat sensation (even without any PAS). I think that will fit my riding style for the future.

Made a few more passes on the road at full throttle and then the voltage started to go all over the place and it started cutting out. Off throttle or like 5% it was at 78-76 ish by now but any more input or rolling the throttle gave and instant burst of power to an immediate falling on its face. I knew that something was up with the batteries and figured some fuse links on one of the banks failed. No way I drained the battery so quick... so with some pedal power and tiny input from the throttle... we biked to a friends house to say hi and then home. After i got home... took out the batteries immediately... felt a little warm but nothing serious. Noticed a dark spot on the packaging I put around it so I took all that off... and for sure found a melted spot. By now I smell the wonderful lithium juice some battery gave out as it gave up the ghost. Further into unwrapping all the tape off revealed more of the smell and definite signs of a burned out cell (or a few) Not all fuses were popped on one string of the cells... but 4 or so of the 6 cells were in Chernobyl status for sure...lol. Major poof came out i'm sure but it was all contained inside the tape and packaging. Pulled it all off... let them just sit and cool outside. This was just one of the packs (i have 2 42v packs in series built) so I checked the other one. Warm for sure.. but no signs of any failed cells or fuses. I definitely think it was just a few cells or even one maybe that failed making the others fail as well. A bit surprised as the fuse wire used (resistor wire) was only gone on 2 of the cells... they are supposed to blow at 5-6 amps. Bit disappointed they did not just blow and let the batteries survive.

Kind of a bummer as now I am waiting on some of those 200A pouch sells to make a 20S out of those. Those won't be here for another week. :lowbatt: :( . So for now I guess I can just relax and stare at my masterpiece and make that aluminum bracket for my coil/fuse/breaker setup. That should take me a day... :?

Till next time....
 

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Pb1302 said:
...
Made a few more passes on the road at full throttle and then the voltage started to go all over the place and it started cutting out. Off throttle or like 5% it was at 78-76 ish by now but any more input or rolling the throttle gave and instant burst of power to an immediate falling on its face. I knew that something was up with the batteries and figured some fuse links on one of the banks failed. No way I drained the battery so quick... so with some pedal power and tiny input from the throttle... we biked to a friends house to say hi and then home. After i got home... took out the batteries immediately... felt a little warm but nothing serious. Noticed a dark spot on the packaging I put around it so I took all that off... and for sure found a melted spot. By now I smell the wonderful lithium juice some battery gave out as it gave up the ghost. Further into unwrapping all the tape off revealed more of the smell and definite signs of a burned out cell (or a few) Not all fuses were popped on one string of the cells... but 4 or so of the 6 cells were in Chernobyl status for sure...lol. Major poof came out i'm sure but it was all contained inside the tape and packaging. Pulled it all off... let them just sit and cool outside. This was just one of the packs (i have 2 42v packs in series built) so I checked the other one. Warm for sure.. but no signs of any failed cells or fuses. I definitely think it was just a few cells or even one maybe that failed making the others fail as well. A bit surprised as the fuse wire used (resistor wire) was only gone on 2 of the cells... they are supposed to blow at 5-6 amps. Bit disappointed they did not just blow and let the batteries survive.

Kind of a bummer as now I am waiting on some of those 200A pouch sells to make a 20S out of those. Those won't be here for another week. :lowbatt: :( . So for now I guess I can just relax and stare at my masterpiece and make that aluminum bracket for my coil/fuse/breaker setup. That should take me a day... :?

Till next time....

Uh oh. So was that pack built out of Liitokala 26650's with Tesla style fuse wires, and now it's trashed?
 
Garen said:
Uh oh. So was that pack built out of Liitokala 26650's with Tesla style fuse wires, and now it's trashed?

Nope. Just my Frankenstein pack I made from d laptop cells. I have a feeling a few of the cells were not good and obviously showed their weakness. My issue was the supposed 5-6A the fuse wire should have blown and not let the cell blow. Cell must have blown before the fuse did. Or it just got too hot maybe? I had controller set at 40A max so not sure why it went. And it was not even on a hard long pull. Other pack was perfectly fine. Just the middle of the one pack had a few cells blow. I will dissect the pack later once it’s all cooled for a few days and I have my other pack built.
 
Sweet build man. I'm interested to see your 26650 pack when it's done.

A few questions.

What are you using as a spot welder (for the 26650 pack)?

Where did you get that chain tensioner and crank?

Thanks!
 
shortcircuit911 said:
Sweet build man. I'm interested to see your 26650 pack when it's done.

A few questions.

What are you using as a spot welder (for the 26650 pack)?

Where did you get that chain tensioner and crank?

Thanks!

Spit welder will be this one from Europe.
https://malectrics.eu/product/diy-arduino-battery-spot-welder-kit-v3-2-2-full-bundle-lipo-battery/

My crank is this one on Amazon.
CDHPOWER Single Speed Crankset Set ...p/B077YWSTB7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_exW-BbVYKKHWQ

The chain tensioner is also on Amazon.
Eclypse Single Guy Bicycle Chain Te...p/B00P26H86G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_eyW-Bb9T28XHP

The 26650 pack will be something I do after the new year. Kids need toys too. Lol. Not just dad. Once that is done...I will post up build piks and maybe a video. Not a big Youtber film maker so maybe just a quick one.
 
tahitiboob said:
good job can you do video?

Maybe later. I’m no YT star so it may be crap with the video camera I have (iPhone 7 Plus). Don’t want to hear peeps complain it’s not 4K. 😋
 
Going to try these bad boys. At 200A discharge...I believe they will work to satisfy my controller (and me) for now. Only 8AH but not worried about range just yet. Just need to get some miles in the bike and this is the easiest way to get there. Going to put them in four 5S packs so I can use my balance charger to balance them from time to time. Joining them with some XT150 bullet type connectors in series of course so I can get the 72v nominal battery pack.

Batteries are on eBay for about 5 bucks a cell. Got 25 so I have some spare cells.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173305036284

Bullet style XT150 connectors are from Amazon. Just got a 6 pair of them.

Going to the store to find me some aluminum bar stock so I can rivet these tabbed ends together. Already tried with some scrap I had at the house and seems to clamp pretty good with 3 rivets.
 

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Awesome, im on the same train for the battery design. The 200A is what surprised me, as you I'm not so worried about range at the moment and we can always add parallels.

Any updates on the aluminum bus bars? how are you gonna isolate the ends that you don't want touching?
 
hgclobo said:
Awesome, im on the same train for the battery design. The 200A is what surprised me, as you I'm not so worried about range at the moment and we can always add parallels.

Any updates on the aluminum bus bars? how are you gonna isolate the ends that you don't want touching?

Range so far is about 8-10 miles depending on my speed. I have taken it on about 10 little trips if 8-10 miles. I charge at the 4-5 mile mark so I don’t actually know how far it will go on 100% to 0% charge. It goes like hell though and controller is not 100% yet either. Been 45 mph so far and got out of it as I did not want to kill the batteries as that was like ride 3. I have been taking it down to 30% or so charge as I don’t have a BMS and don’t want to kill these off. I plan to balance these by bringing each individual cell up or down depending on how close they are to each other. It takes a long time...but I never took the time to attach balance leads. Nothing sticks to the damn rivers or aluminum bars when I solder. So alligator clips for now during single cell balance. I do have it charging bulk in my 84v 3a charger but I stop it at about 79 volts to not get any one cell too close to being over charged.

I kept the aluminum bars apart by using some electrical tape and cardboard with more tape. It works great. Laptop tape is good too....just wanted to save it for my 26650 build.

But now I have all my 26650 batteries and my new BMS so as soon as I figure out what will work best...it’s gonna be on.
 
Here are my thoughts on the battery build using the 26650s.

I have 140 of these so that would make me a 20S7P (for a 35AH pack) as I originally planned. All fits well into the space I have as 2 10S7P banks I can connect together in series once inside the bike then to the main power leads to the BMS. My issue now is that they looks and fit SO good in the AMMO can but only at 6P so I loose 5AHs off my entire pack but have a fireproof’ish container they will sit in. Or I leave the entire 140 but just placed inside the bike using those plastic battery link brackets with maybe some foam on each end that contacts the frame to give it some vibration protection.

The BMS will sit outside either setup...so not worried there. Just wanted to use the ammo case for some protection just in case something went bad at least I have time to eject the box before my entire bike turns to a pile of dust.

I have plenty of room inside the can to make the connections for BMS wiring and the dual 8ga wires from each end. Just not sure I want to lose 5ah as I intended to have the 7P arrangement for both amp draw off the setup as well as range.

I also plan to make my own custom copper/nickel connection plates to join the batteries together. Similar to these copper plates below from Alibaba. Those from Alibaba are a bit pricey and I was going to hack them up anyway. So might as well just make my own. Not sure how just yet. No idea how to get those perfect squares done without fancy tools. Just going to use .15x12mm nickel strip inside the hole to weld to battery and solder that to the copper plate.
 

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Took a slow ride with my kid today. Did max 40 mph but average 12mph as my 11 year old has a regular mountain bike. Thought I would drain the 8aH battery but it was at 46% on our 9.5 mile trip. So not bad for a tiny battery. Still trying to figure out how to deal with my 26650 battery pack so it all fits inside. Thirsting for max ah. Fun trip today needless to say.
 

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Great build, looks super nice! About how tall are you and how well does it fit? Any more range tests? Also, you could be anywhere, but that sure makes me think of the Sacramento area.
 
byke said:
Great build, looks super nice! About how tall are you and how well does it fit? Any more range tests? Also, you could be anywhere, but that sure makes me think of the Sacramento area.

Thanks. I’m 5’10”. It’s a bit tall but once you get on it’s fine. I’m going to drop the front fork tubes the 1/4” they may have left. It’s fine once you are riding. No more range tests since the last one. It’s been too darn cold and rainy now. I’m south of Sacramento. I see you’re in NorCal too...maybe a ebike meet one day. 😁
 
shortcircuit911 said:
Coming along, keep going!

Hey I'm in Antioch and my bro lives in Sac, let's ride!

I'm down...once this pissing of the sky stops. Weather has been terrible as you know lately. Can't wait for the summer again. I'm in Suisun City so we are close to meet somewhere nearby for us all. Where do you go ride? I have only been on the street with this thing and just some grass fields near my house...
 
Sounds good to me. I'm constantly looking for new places to ride and wouldn't mind driving a bit for a good spot. Still getting the last few tasks on my bike done, took it out for a few rips and it ran well.


This is also right by my house if you're interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEJyVtTpTHY&t=1s
 
shortcircuit911 said:
Sounds good to me. I'm constantly looking for new places to ride and wouldn't mind driving a bit for a good spot. Still getting the last few tasks on my bike done, took it out for a few rips and it ran well.


This is also right by my house if you're interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEJyVtTpTHY&t=1s

Nice bike and I have been following your build. I started mine almost the same time as you did. Took me a while to gather everything up.

I’m down for some riding near you. I have not explored my area yet but I know a few parks we can go to....just not sure how well our large ebikes will be received. But we have Rockville Park and Pina Adobe Park to go check out near me.
 
Got the BMS working. Thanks to Tony (Vortecks) for his awesome app and BMS help. Just need to get my new wiring done for the interconnection of battery, charge wires and controller so I can slap it all inside my bike. Testing out the balance function now. Looks to be working. Slow as hell of course...but seems to be balancing the cells.

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Got more of my cell spacers today. But there was a problem with the new ones.

I got the same damn ones from my previous order on Amazon and figured all would be well. Not so much. The older set I got was very tight to get the cells in or out. It practically broke the spacer if you tried to take it apart. No big deal...until I tried to match up my older set with the newer set. They were redesigned...of course. So old set is a smidge smaller and won’t line up with new ones. So immediately ordered another 2 sets with the hopes they match the NEW set. Let’s see how that works out. Gonna post me a review on Amazon for those interested in doing the same brand.

uxcell 50pcs 26650 Lithium Battery...B011HFOUPW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_8T8oCbVWT7A2A

I will say that the new set is much better. It feels stronger and the cells just slide in and you don’t have to force them in. They don’t move around at all once it’s sandwiched together. So I guess it’s better than the super tight fit...but annoying to have to wasted $30 more bucks.

Still need to get nickel strip from the UK supplier Andy and Tony are using. Once I decide on how to do the buss bars or plate I’ll order that material and get to spit welding and soldering.

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Hi Pb1302,
Share you experience regarding 26650. Did you had chance to test it during winer?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=98667
 
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