Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » May 01 2019 3:33pm

agniusm wrote:
May 01 2019 1:02pm
How was assembling NESE compared to vruzend? Any feedback would be appreciated
NESE hands down. 100% better. The vruzend might have its place but overall not sold on its quality / durability long term. The hardware on them breaks way to easily. I managed to assembled all 40 modules (8 cells each) in less time than the 30 cell 12v battery. Having printed these modules in ABS following the recommended settings on your website I can say that they went together with no issues, (snug but in a good way) I will likely end up changing the 3s 10p battery for a 4s 8p NESE system.

I finally go the charger going - the input (AC voltage) has a small glass fuse built into the connector, when I first tried to use the charger and it didn't work I had disconnected it and checked the fse with no signs of issues, tried the charger again still didn't work - let it sit for a bit tried again and it wouldn't turn on. well checked it this morning and the fuse was black - so definatly blew. Disassembled the charger to see if there was arcing somewhere (there wasn't) The unit came with a fast blow 15 amp fuse, I now installed a 12 amp slow blow fuse. Putting a meter on the input showed a inrush current of 15.88amps. The arc created at the plug is nuts... I will be using a solid state relay for turning it on and off, so hopefully I wont have any long term issues turn the charger on and off.
BMS charging.jpg
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Assembled the 12v battery today, a few layer of foam(and way too much hot glue) and then covered in heat shrink. I plan to relay this battery with a 4s 8p NESE module and to find a smart bms for 4s as the cheap bms I tried using wasn't working, r at least not from what I could tell. it is currently balanced, and I intend to monitor it in the mean time
12v battery foam covered.jpg
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Assembled 12v battery.jpg
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The seat has been riveted into place normally the kmx seat has a few clips at the end that holds the seat in place, but I find it sinks in too much so I put silicone and rivets all the way around. I intend to purchase some foam and use vinyl (that I already have) to make a better seat cover. The motor controller mounts to the back of the seat (welded 1x1 tubing onto the seat frame)
riveted seat.jpg
Motor controller mounted.jpg
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The trailer was assembled the other day and here are some photos. still have to add the connector but all the wiring is ready to go.
assembled trailer 1.jpg
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assembled trailer 2.jpg
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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by agniusm » May 01 2019 3:48pm

Watch that bms. I had same with bt module attached. It drained new cells over the winter flat. I am not sure if my setting were wrong but does not look that way.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » May 01 2019 3:55pm

Ya, tried the bluetooth - it didn't want to connect. I from my test with the bluetooth i have a feeling It stays always on, would would be a decent draw over the course of the winter. might stick my amp clamp on the bms and see what standby power its using.

either way thanks for the heads up.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by thundercamel » May 01 2019 4:08pm

Awesome giant battery! Look forward to seeing the range. What was the reason you don't use a DC-DC converter for the 12 volt accessories again?
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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » May 01 2019 4:14pm

I wanted to maximize range, plus the contractors that control the main battery have 12v coils and a dc dc converter shouldn't be left on all the time, thus you would need a 12v battery to activate the coils, and then a dc-dc could take over. I prefer to keep the light on a separate battery which allows me to track overall usage. and even if I'm disabled on the side of the road I'll be able to run lighting. (unless it were the 12v battery that fails. It mostly comes down to preference.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » May 02 2019 3:49pm

Here's a photo of the trike overall (end of today's work in the shop) have it mostly assembled so that I could get a feel for the overall set up, defiantly think down the road I'll slim the design do and condense thing and lower the weight (should still be legal though, but we'll see.)
pre-final assembly.jpg

Tomorrow will involve wiring up the control panels. And making a cover for the bottom battery. And adding the connector to the trailer. After which the bike needs to be programmed and should be fully functional. Boxes were mounted today. High voltage in one box, low in the other. Under the outdoor electrical cover is a shunt meter that I was gonna use to limit the charging voltage as most of the time I won't need the full range and can instead set a lower top end voltage upon that being reached the charger would turn off via solid state relay. Alas I didn't realize its position would interfere with the charger Mount, I'll likely charge it later when I can make the panels out of aluminum as these boxes weight a fair bit (but were cheap at $13 each)
high voltage box.jpg
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low voltage box.jpg
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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by Raketemensch » May 07 2019 9:34pm

You probably already know this, but printing those hitch spacers in nylon would hold up a lot longer.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » May 14 2019 3:40pm

So I almost had it completely done, then I plugged in the trailer while the 12 system was on and destroyed 2 of 3 pwm lighting modules. After which I wanted to tune the motor response, throttle was ok but I wanted a faster acceleration, which I partly achieved but the initial response is way slower but then it gets past that and is awesome. Guess I'll have to read up on t cycle analyst v3 documents as I think I'm adjusting settings incorrectly.

The other issue I'm puzzled with (but have a few ideas to test) is that the brakes I have are now using a hall effect which in turn the Arduino is taking a value from (which works fine) the Arduino would then activate a relay module (one that has the optoisolator and stuff) the relay is set up to switch 12v from my 12v battery to the motor control high brake labeled 12v high brake. This functioned seems to trigger fine. But if I hit and release the throttle I notice the led flash on the relay board and then the Arduino has stalled, requiring reset. My thoughts are isolation issue somewhere and a surge is coming back from the motor controller. My ways for testing this are going to be to remove the 12v brake and 0v reverse connector on the motor controller. Separate 5v battery bank to power the Arduino and separate the ground connection (currently ground is shared. between the 74v and 12v batteries)

The other thing I noticed is flex in the rear end to the point where the rear tire wants to touch the bar for the hitch, I'm going to weld up a triangular brace to stop this and make the rear more rigid.

Tested the bike over speed bumps and a terrible parking lot and I can say that the suspension even with the weight and tires is an absolute dream.

The J1772 charge port works perfectly, I have a few final photos but internet is really slow for me so I'll have to try and add them later, but once fully operational plan to do some full photos and videos highlighting and showcasing everything.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » May 14 2019 4:06pm

After some time of waiting for an online converter to resize them... Here are updated photos of the completed electrical boxes (10x10x4) and the over design of the trike with trailer attached

rsz_finalized_design.jpg
.
rsz_high_voltage_done.jpg
rsz_low_voltage_done.jpg

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by adam333 » May 14 2019 8:37pm

tonystark20 wrote:
May 14 2019 3:40pm
Tested the bike over speed bumps and a terrible parking lot and I can say that the suspension even with the weight and tires is an absolute dream.
Glad to read this! :D

This is one hell of a trike, nice job!

Did you had a chance to see how much it weight finally?

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » May 14 2019 8:52pm

No haven't checked the weight yet, have to add a brace to the back of motor to stop the tire from hitting the hitch. And want to figure out why the main computer won't work, I can fix the lighting another day but really want Regen braking to work.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by neptronix » May 14 2019 9:16pm

This thing is frocking nuts and i love it. Looking forward to seeing this thing smoking tires.

:bigthumb:
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Jun 07 2019 9:20am

So I managed to get the trike in a driveable state to get it out of my college shop... the trip to my new place after college was 102km ride... I totally expected the trike to make this trip no issues. I would have preferred to not have driven in the rain but it was my only option. When I left i had about 6km used on the odometer and it was 50wh/km... well after a total of 60km on the odometer the battery was dead... only 40ah... Have a feeling that I may have used more capacity during testing than I thought before I calibrated the display. I then used a charging station for the next 4 hours (66% charge according to bms software) I reset the trip and continued for the next 42km... The efficiency was now at 37wh/km when The throttle works nicely I can see the kw usage is less than the old motor I was using. (will cruise at 40km/h using about 1kw. but right now I'm using very small portion of the throttle, so small deflections is changing the current usage. I have a feeling that I need to change some settings to get the wh/hr to a better efficiency. I'm not expecting the 300km+ range but would be nice to get 20-30wh/km. I also have to go back thru the lighting system and make changes as some rain and other issues are making it unreliable.

I had welded a brace for the rear to stop the hitch from hitting the motor but it didn't work ass well as I hoped, thank fully I have another idea for how to fix it but will have to save up some money to buy some thick threaded rod.

Still don't know the weight yet.

The acceleration can be fun but I know I've had the acceleration go really fast and would be nice to get it to that spot again.
I also want to change the range of the throttle as most of the time I'm only using the first few mm of range and its tough to hold it in such a narrow window. Either way this has defiantly been an interesting project that I've learned lots from, and will likely continue to learn from. I will post photos of settings and updates when I can... life has been difficult this past month to say the least.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by adam333 » Jun 09 2019 9:19pm

Hmm... your power consumption is very high. But again, the trike look fairly heavy.

I would give it a try with slick tire.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by agniusm » Jun 21 2019 11:27am

I would suggest investing in something like meanwell hlg series led power supply for charging instead of those chinese chargers. I had 3 of them fail in time.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by The Toecutter » Jun 29 2019 2:13pm

adam333 wrote:
Jun 09 2019 9:19pm
Hmm... your power consumption is very high. But again, the trike look fairly heavy.

I would give it a try with slick tire.
From the info Neptronix has provided on these forums, the Mitas MC2 looks like an excellent choice. It is claimed to be low rolling resistance and also rated for 100 km/h.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Jul 05 2019 1:36pm

Sorry for the lack of updates, to say life's been a little difficult for myself would be a small understatement.

Overall the trike does perform well, I enjoy having the ev plug, very handy for trips.

Don't know the weight yet, sorry.

if i drive slow and nice I get about 33wh/km, driving with a lead foot will get me about 44wh/km

I'm running 3kw nominal as my settings for the motor controller (which does nice for most hills, boost mode is set for 95 amps, but doesn't always engage when i use the switch, might need to check the settings)

Because I was finding it hard to control the motor with the throttle connected to the CA (was only using a few mm of travel on the throttle) I've switch to having the CA control speed the throttle in a particular position is set for a certain speed) which makes the trike a little more manageable but adds current spikes when accelerating.

When assembling the trike the hall sensor that was in it was color coded wrong and thus was burned out, I swapped out for a sensor I had on hand UGN3503 which i have a feeling is the wrong type for this application.

My first drive with the trike I was could for a couple hours in the rain, and the PWM modules all failed (they're really sensitive)
Right now my headlights and the brake relay are the only thing that works.

I'll keep in mind the slick tires. Right now the tires have worked out well so far, the right front one however is wearing a fair bit more than the left though.

One month of driving = 345km on the odometer

What i'll likely do is get all the lights working and hold on on putting more money into it. When I can I want to design a new version. Likely have a sheet metal (spaceframe) or composite design / frame. Making it as light as I could get it while having features I want / like / safety requirements Having solar canopy = to 1/2 required power (trailer would have 1.5x the required power (maybe even small power assist on trailer?) compact 2 seater? side by side? tandem? switch to the adaptto motor controller (weight reduction plus I like some of their features) Mid drive? good weight / range / power set up. I'm likely going to make a few designs. and have a few ideas in my head. including switching the tires for ebike 2 ply and not as aggressive of a tread. (rolling resistance) but it will be some time before I do all this, and any parts from my current bike will be resold or reused on a vector style bike build.

Thanks for the suggestions on tires and chargers, will keep these in mind for the long run.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by adam333 » Jul 05 2019 2:52pm

tonystark20 wrote:
Jul 05 2019 1:36pm
I'll keep in mind the slick tires. Right now the tires have worked out well so far, the right front one however is wearing a fair bit more than the left though.
Usually, when the tire wear out too fast, it is due to toe in / toe out alignment.

I would take a look at it.

I got best result with 1/16 to 1/8" toe in on my trike.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Jul 14 2019 4:10pm

adam333 wrote:
Jul 05 2019 2:52pm
Usually, when the tire wear out too fast, it is due to toe in / toe out alignment.

I would take a look at it.

I got best result with 1/16 to 1/8" toe in on my trike.
Ya had a feeling it might be toe, and upon looking at how it was wearing I had guessed a toe in issue... Once I was able to get my tape measure I was right (and so were you) It was toed in 2" ... like WOW. I've now bottomed out the tie rod, and its toed in 3/8"... when I can get my tools and stuff I'm go back and cut a few threads to tune it more, but right now its working great. Took a drive the other day (120km) and I'm now sitting at 28wh/km most of the time. which is great. sorry still don't know the weight

When I start designing and testing parts for my next trike (which will be a longer term build) Should I post another thread in this section or elsewhere as I go thru designs and testing of components and what not.

Some stats from the cycle analyst =
40 days since first starting to ride.
630km on the odometer
Rbat = 0.073ohms (is this good / bad?)
any other information people would like to know?

also boost doesn't seem to work on the bike right now (running 3kw normal, boost is 95amps, the switch works as it will limit the speed but wont give me the extra amps. thoughts?)

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by adam333 » Jul 15 2019 11:11am

tonystark20 wrote:
Jul 14 2019 4:10pm
Should I post another thread in this section or elsewhere as I go thru designs and testing of components and what not.
I would start a new thread if it a new bike.
tonystark20 wrote:
Jul 14 2019 4:10pm
Rbat = 0.073ohms (is this good / bad?)
I don't know, mine read 0.038ohms
tonystark20 wrote:
Jul 14 2019 4:10pm
also boost doesn't seem to work on the bike right now (running 3kw normal, boost is 95amps, the switch works as it will limit the speed but wont give me the extra amps. thoughts?)
I do not see this option on my CA, I am running the version 3.0
It limit my current to 99A right now.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Jul 15 2019 7:04pm

adam333 wrote:
Jul 15 2019 11:11am
I would start a new thread if it a new bike.
Ya, a kinda figured a new thread might be the best course, the trike will likely be two seater ultra light weight, aluminum (carbon fiber?) long range solar monster. with lots of custom parts and testing of various ideas I have. would a build thread still be the best spot for this idea, would likely be a long ongoing project with questions and a few tangents when testing parts.
adam333 wrote:
Jul 15 2019 11:11am
I do not see this option on my CA, I am running the version 3.0
It limit my current to 99A right now.
sorry should have clarified, the CA display is limited to 5kw and 50km/h operating with speed mode on throttle input, (set speed for throttle input, makes it far more usable then trying to control the throttle with ultra micro movements, although not as fast acceleration from dead stop)

The "boost" I'm referring to is the 72150 sabvoton controller function, the switch is set with low, mid, boost. The low is 20% speed, mid is 80% and boost should be full speed and 95 amps, but I'm only getting the speed limiting and the 30amps its currently programmed to do normally.

And thanks for the info on battery pack ohms, my best guess is that, the NESE modules are adding a bit of resistance. which, id kinda expect for a non welded pack. My next pack will be welded to cut weight as I have about 3kg of plastic for the battery alone, great pack but lots of weight for my application, might turn it into a power wall or resell it. I dunno.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by adam333 » Jul 15 2019 8:35pm

some build thread are going for years, It is your best spot to post a long ongoing project.

It is probably not that, but you could raise the power limit on the CA and see if you are still limited to 30A.

My controller can do 10kW, but the CA is capped at 7.5kW right now.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 13 2019 9:59am

Still haven't had a chance to look at the weight of the bike, or the boost setting. For the most part the bike runs great.

The motor has a little stuttering when at speed but pulling low watts (below ~600watts) which I think is something to do with the hall effects and maybe the phase angle. (It's worse when the motor is warm)

Bike now has 1200+km on the odometer. (Took a 200km (one way) trip to a car show... Won best trike too)

But today I was heading to the train station and as I went to accelerate from a stop light the main battery shut off ... No throttle, CA shut off. Tried resetting via key switch no luck. Push the bike onto the side walk to look it over. Could notice anything. Tried again and it turned on. But no throttle response (throttle icon moves on the CA though) so I get off and look at the controller. No green light but the red light was pulsing / blinking steadily. Tried to reset it a few time no luck tried turning it off and on via the orange ignition wire, no luck with that either. (The using the orange ignition wire does cause the normal spark though so it is trying to charge the capacitors. Haven't had a chance to check the software to see if it can communicate. All the wires are secure. So far I have no idea what is wrong.

Any ideas of what to check?

PS hope everyone is enjoying their summer.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by adam333 » Aug 13 2019 7:16pm

usually, a cable get loosen somewhere, but in your case, the controller might be dead.

It happened once to me, one of the big capacitor inside was not glued properly and one side opened and I had to replace the controller...

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 13 2019 7:35pm

adam333 wrote:
Aug 13 2019 7:16pm
usually, a cable get loosen somewhere, but in your case, the controller might be dead.

It happened once to me, one of the big capacitor inside was not glued properly and one side opened and I had to replace the controller...
most of the wires were tight, slightly loose screws but no arcing and I re-tightened them.

I have a feeling your right about the controller though, as i unplugged everything but the power wires and it wouldn't turn on. The 5v line coming out shows the power going up and down with the blinking of the power light. no computer RX/TX communication. such a shame as I had a few events and car shows to go to. next up is trying to get warranty replacement.

EDIT: also wanted to say that I get tones of compliments on the suspension. and I'll admit I like it too. (and I most certainly give credit to you when people ask about it... just saying.) I also notice with my bike being in the sun a lot the anodized coating has taken on a copper-ish color. which I think looks cool. and the hex bolts haven't rusted anywhere near what i thought they might. (easy enough to clean and lubricate to prevent further rusting)

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