Motorsport, Racing, The Future

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
AM2Racing   1 µW

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Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by AM2Racing » Feb 22 2021 7:50am

I am new to EV's and became super interested in them once GM announced the EV electric swap kit. Deep into the rabbit hole I am wondering what happens in the future for Motorsport. EV's are the hype right now, but I am also seeing Honda invest aggressively into natural gas.

Formula E has picked up a ton of traction in the past 6 years, and a lot of big tech has placed electrification goals for 2030. What do you think is going to happen with motorsport/recreational vehicles? I think the regular gear head is afraid of their disappearance because most EV's manufacturers are also looking to be driverless

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Grantmac » Feb 22 2021 12:54pm

I think EVs are the only thing which will save motorsport from both noise and pollution concerns.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Feb 22 2021 8:13pm

Both are low on the totem poll, motor sport events are usually in out of the way venues, except for the monster truck series which is in the same stadiums sports are played because they are located in centrally located areas with access via mainline transit routes. Race tracks are almost always on the outskirts of town, vast amounts of land available for cheap, industrial commercial areas.

The whole experience of driving for some is the noise and the feel of the vehicle. Shifting, motor rumble, g-force. Same goes for experiencing motorsport events. EV companies are inducing vibrations and noise into their product for exactly that reason. Harley Davidson added noise and vibration to their electric motorcycle.
Grantmac wrote:
Feb 22 2021 12:54pm
I think EVs are the only thing which will save motorsport from both noise and pollution concerns.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Grantmac » Feb 23 2021 12:14am

markz wrote:
Feb 22 2021 8:13pm
Both are low on the totem poll, motor sport events are usually in out of the way venues, except for the monster truck series which is in the same stadiums sports are played because they are located in centrally located areas with access via mainline transit routes. Race tracks are almost always on the outskirts of town, vast amounts of land available for cheap, industrial commercial areas.

The whole experience of driving for some is the noise and the feel of the vehicle. Shifting, motor rumble, g-force. Same goes for experiencing motorsport events. EV companies are inducing vibrations and noise into their product for exactly that reason. Harley Davidson added noise and vibration to their electric motorcycle.
Grantmac wrote:
Feb 22 2021 12:54pm
I think EVs are the only thing which will save motorsport from both noise and pollution concerns.
We are currently in the process of losing a track because they city has grown to it and having another one which was recently built in the middle of nowhere being restricted in how it can operate because of noise concerns miles away.

Noise might not matter to fans but I guarantee that it matters to people who aren't.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Feb 23 2021 1:02am

Well insurance premiums are another reason for tracks closing, along with rising land prices hence higher land tax prices needing to be paid to the government. Commercial and industrial taxes have skyrocketed in the past decade.

Noise, hence bylaws putting tracks at the outskirts. Land prices dictating same thing.

They are trying to build a race track a good ride out of town, our last track here opened in 1985 and closed well before 2010, nationwide bands toured the track. Now they just play the hockey stadium, and because of the construction Stones with their heavy light show wouldnt come here, they'd go to the Oilers rink which was always a shame.

Grantmac wrote:
Feb 23 2021 12:14am
We are currently in the process of losing a track because they city has grown to it and having another one which was recently built in the middle of nowhere being restricted in how it can operate because of noise concerns miles away.

Noise might not matter to fans but I guarantee that it matters to people who aren't.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Grantmac » Feb 23 2021 1:52am

To be clear I'm talking about grassroots motorsport:
AutoX, karting, MX, cross country motorcycle and similar. The kind of thing people do as a hobby.

I remember karting in mall parking lots and riding crosscountry motorcycles practically in town. People didn't used to consider silence a right.

Those are the motorsports which EVs have the potential to save in my opinion.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Dauntless » Feb 23 2021 3:59pm

I don't know how much noise came up as a concern with tracks in SoCal, there is still the track in Irwindale. Ontario Motor Speedway went way over budget and the city couldn't pay off the bonds and had it foreclosed on, publicly at least they were lamenting the loss. Riverside International Speedway was in the country until the City of Moreno Valley incorporated around it, then the city council just wanted something else there and caused trouble. And the inner suburban Rialto track was just a victim of the bad economy.

Electric racing is a new thing to find interesting. If someone brings a competitive electric to the Baja 500, he'll be every drivers second choice to win because that will make headlines that offroad racing never gets. I do think the problem with making an electric version of Formula 1, NASCAR, anything, is becoming the pale version and people can just say it's not as good. Maybe something just a bit more original. . . .

When I was wanting to go racing a few years ago, most of my time was going to be at tracks well over 100 miles away. Darn. Not sure how much of the country has that problem.
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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Feb 23 2021 5:29pm

Speaking of...
- Out of the way
- Out in the countryside
- In the middle of no where

A new racetrack is being promoted, 80 miles out of the city of Calgary, Alberta.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/contentious- ... -1.5320641

Needless to say not many tree huggers around here to protest building a racetrack. There will be, for publicity reasons as there always is. The most resistance, farmers.
Badlands Motorsports wants to create a nearly $500 million motor sports racing park with multiple race tracks, a hotel, and condominiums in an undeveloped area about four kilometres east of the hamlet.
The filing goes on to say the company expects up to 280 vehicles on site during weekdays with the number swelling to 400 on weekends. Plans are in place to have the two courses operate 12 hours a day, 200 days a year, with 15 to 20 cars on the track at any given time, and the company expects to employ between 100 and 200 staff.
Whining from the very few, so noise is a valid complaint. More so is the traffic.
The racetrack development has raised the hackles of nearby residents.

Rosebud is peppered with signs opposing the racetrack, as are the rural roads leading toward the proposed racetrack site.
He and a neighbour Wendy Clark have continued their fight to the provincial Environmental Appeals Board, arguing the company’s plan to infill two wetlands, modify three others and build a storm water system will cause irreparable damage to the environment.
"It is a sanctuary for the wildlife on the prairie here because all the rest of the land has been basically cultivated up. And so the river valleys are their only sanctions anymore." said Skibsted "It just seems crazy to be putting stuff like this. In a in a river valley. It just doesn't seem to make sense to me.”
Progress
Sad to say no one wants to farm anymore, its gone "Big Business", offspring of farmers are moving on. Right to repair farm equipment is the same thing going on with cell phones. John Deere is doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XN98T0KLGI
“The only thing that I'm concerned about is our future generations. Will it have an impact on the future farmers and whether they choose farming as an occupation? Does it become appealing to them to make their life here, if it's no longer the quality of life that we've had, that we've enjoyed?"
Maybe they will find some dinosaur bones when building, 20 miles from the Dinosaur Museum and where most dino fossil's are found.
The farmers will want to earth movers to find an Indian Burial on the site to shut it down.

------------------------------------------------------------
Electric racing is a new thing to find interesting. If someone brings a competitive electric to the Baja 500
Baja is a special case, all that jiggling, all that movement, all that knocking around. Would be a great test bed for battery development.

When I was wanting to go racing a few years ago, most of my time was going to be at tracks well over 100 miles away. Darn. Not sure how much of the country has that problem.
Yeah, our small tiny racetrack left 15 years ago, was out on the city limits, now the city landfill. Not sure of the illegal street racing problem in my city, I hear its bad in Toronto and Vancouver. Having a racetrack is nice, but like your 100 miles, this new one being built is 80 miles away. What they really should do is build a casino. Thats the real money maker. Our government recently passed legistlation where VLT's can be run 24/7, where before they were closed at 3am, tables at 2am, booze is 2am here. The real gambling problem people would be sitting at a VLT at 4am, but the government dont care about that, they'll put out their lame warnings instead of slow down speed of play.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Feb 23 2021 6:20pm

Need to get the speed out of the system, thats where race tracks come into play.

Tiger Woods just had his 45'th b'day. Crashed his Cadillac suv impaired in 2009 in at his Florida home. 2017 got busted taking prescription meds and past out in the drivers seat. Lets add to the list for 2021! Fuzz dont say he seemed impaired, blood tests will find out. I bet he's still on the pills.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/02/23/tiger-wo ... ournament/
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/23/tiger-w ... e-him.html
Tiger Woods crashed and rolled over Tuesday morning in Los Angeles, leaving the golf superstar with multiple leg injuries, authorities and his agent said.

Woods was undergoing surgery on Tuesday afternoon after the single-car crash, his agent said.

His injuries are not life-threatening, according to Lt. Michael White of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.







OK Lets see where Tiger Woods could have gotten his fun kicks from.

Screenshot from 2021-02-23 16-21-39.png
Screenshot from 2021-02-23 16-21-39.png (1.17 MiB) Viewed 554 times








What do you think is going to happen with motorsport/recreational vehicles? I think the regular gear head is afraid of their disappearance because most EV's manufacturers are also looking to be driverless
It will be a long long time (30 years) before the Electric Vehicle craze will infringe upon us gear heads, motor heads, rolling diesel heads.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Grantmac » Feb 23 2021 8:01pm

There is an EV offroad racing championship going live this year:
https://www.extreme-e.com/

They ran the last stage of Dakar as a demo.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Dauntless » Feb 23 2021 8:19pm

If the manufacturers want to sell cars to the offroaders, they won't build driverless.

Let's see. Buena Park Raceway is slot cars, yep, electric. Cal Raceway is RC, probably both gas and electric. OCIR closed long long ago, but it's on the map? Team Gordon is Robby Gordon's shop and NOT a track, but a bunch of these are stores and it says they're tracks.

But at least Willow Springs is still there. When I was a kid I dubbed the place 'The Wind and the Willows.' We had to do timing and scoring OUTSIDE, and good day there is no hurricane winds, no Dust Devils (Which is what you call a tornado that comes up from the ground instead of down from the sky. Not as bad but still nasty.) no anything that forces the event to be cancelled, but damn it was tough keeping control of our paperwork. Which there was a lot of while the computers still weren't good enough to replace running lap charts.

All that is why I doubt they'll ever want to develop that place out of existence, but I could be wrong. http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/
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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Feb 23 2021 8:32pm

Dakar

Be interesting to see what batteries and how those batteries were put together for that last stage of the Dakar race.
The last stage was Friday, january 15, 2021
Yanbu > Jeddah
Bike/Quad Total/Special 447 km | 200 km
Car/Light 447 km | 200 km
Truck 447 km | 200 km
https://www.dakar.com/en/stage-12/bike

15/01 - Yanbu > Jeddah, 452 km - SS : 225 km

The last stage of the Dakar is not necessarily the easiest. The riders, drivers and co-drivers will still have to deal with the threat of chains of dunes, where getting stuck can easily spell the difference between a sweet ending and a bitter one. However, "celebration" will be the buzzword here, as the finish line on the shore of the Red Sea brings back memories of Lac Rose for some finishers.
Comparing Baja to Dakar
https://micro.puro-off-road.com/post/16 ... 000vsdakar
Baja 1000 vs Dakar Rally - which of the two is the tougher competition? The Dakar Rally dishes up the most horrible conditions one can imagine. Soaring heat, blinding sandstorms, wild animals, sometimes booby traps and people shooting at you (referring to “older” times when event was run in Africa).

And that 15 days in a row, 9'000 plus kilometers with 300km to 800km per day as so called timed “specials”. We choose #TheDakar as the most challenging off-road race on the planet.


With the Dakar considered the world’s most hardcore off-road race, the Baja 1000 runs a very close second place and perhaps surpasses it in several areas. At the end of the day is it like comparing apples and oranges.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Hillhater » Feb 24 2021 6:00am

How would av EV tackle the “Cannonball” record ?.? :wink:
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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Dauntless » Feb 24 2021 6:14pm

Hillhater wrote:
Feb 24 2021 6:00am
How would av EV tackle the “Cannonball” record ?.? :wink:
Battery swaps. Think of the coordination.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Hillhater » Feb 24 2021 6:48pm

Dauntless wrote:
Feb 24 2021 6:14pm
Hillhater wrote:
Feb 24 2021 6:00am
How would av EV tackle the “Cannonball” record ?.? :wink:
Battery swaps. Think of the coordination.
Think of the number of swaps !
What is the range of a Tesla “S” Plaid at max performance ?..100..200 miles max ?
So, 3000 miles,.. 15+ battery swaps each taking 10+ mins....2.5 - 3+ hrs downtime . :shock:
And a whole pile of battery packs and swap crews, spread across the country.
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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 24 2021 9:47pm

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https://www.motortrend.com/news/lordsto ... elipe-250/
some ride & sk8 videos:
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http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by amberwolf » Feb 25 2021 12:12am

Grantmac wrote:
Feb 23 2021 1:52am
People didn't used to consider silence a right.
I didnt' used to care much one way or the other until the plague of literally-earthquake-level subwoofer systems began some years back. It has increased to the point that these days there is not a single day that goes by where I don't see something vibrate off a shelf somewhere either at work or at my house from some asshole with one of these assault vehicles just sitting there (with no one in it) with the sub volume cranked to 357. The migraines and puking these assholes cause is unending (not just for me; I see other people react the same way sometimes). I wish I had a time machine to ensure whoever invented the subwoofer never did so.

Not the same problem as loud engines, etc....but it has made me aware of all the other loud sounds that are only annoying.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Dauntless » Feb 25 2021 2:29am

Hillhater wrote:
Feb 24 2021 6:48pm
Dauntless wrote:
Feb 24 2021 6:14pm
Hillhater wrote:
Feb 24 2021 6:00am
How would av EV tackle the “Cannonball” record ?.? :wink:
Battery swaps. Think of the coordination.
Think of the number of swaps !
What is the range of a Tesla “S” Plaid at max performance ?..100..200 miles max ?
So, 3000 miles,.. 15+ battery swaps each taking 10+ mins....2.5 - 3+ hrs downtime . :shock:
And a whole pile of battery packs and swap crews, spread across the country.
That's exactly what I meant. Dan Gurney did what? Hopped in and drove the first time? For obvious reasons, some things there's no point in getting ahead of reality. But a 250 mile race should be good.
amberwolf wrote:
Feb 25 2021 12:12am
. . . . these days there is not a single day that goes by where I don't see something vibrate off a shelf somewhere either at work or at my house from some asshole with one of these assault vehicles. . . .
If he was in an electric, just think of how the sound system was shortening his range.
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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Feb 27 2021 9:24pm

They can't even crack down on exhaust noises here, motorbikes are the worst offenders, then the sports cars. Hardly do you ever see 30 year old cars with rusted out white/blue smoke exhaust flumes.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Dauntless » Mar 02 2021 3:20pm

Well, I wonder when we'll get the inevitable Spec Tesla class. If you don't know what "Spec" racing is, it is about seemingly identical cars (Though there can be the tiny differences) that are supposed to be closely matched. But of course reality intervenes. I believe the Spec Miata is the single largest class of both professional and club racing out there. https://specmiata.nasaseries.com/

Also known as "Spec Pinata."

At the cost of those cars it'll be an expensive series for awhile, but I'd guess there will be some real interest.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Grantmac » Mar 02 2021 4:10pm

Spec ID3 would make a lot of sense if the cars can handle.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Mar 02 2021 5:13pm

Unlimited Class where anything and everything goes.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Dauntless » Mar 02 2021 10:49pm

As for spec, I posted a Randy Pobst video where he said his only objection to the handling was the traction control.

The world is not ready for the Tesla unlimited class. We'll see when.
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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by markz » Mar 03 2021 5:37am

Electric rally racing would be cool. Oval racing sucks.

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Re: Motorsport, Racing, The Future

Post by Hillhater » Mar 04 2021 2:27am

Dauntless wrote:
Mar 02 2021 3:20pm
Well, I wonder when we'll get the inevitable Spec Tesla class. .....
I am pretty sure there was one,.. several yeasr ago, The “Electric GT” series using Spec Model S
I remember a TV motoring show test driving ..( Tiff Nedel) the prototype, but it kept shutting down fo some reason.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/07/here ... -f1-track/
But , i think EVs would be best suited to short circuit, “Oval” track Sprint car type racing....high power, short duration, on tracks close to town, !
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