E-bike or E-motorcycle?

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
Electric Earth   100 W

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E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Electric Earth » Apr 12 2020 4:09pm

What would you build for getting around a small city with pretty decent bike paths and a budget of ~$2,000? A nice, long range e-bike based on a full suspension MTB frame, or a motorcycle conversion, likely based on whatever cheap donor bike suits the needs? After a bit of reading, I'm surprised to find that the costs of a build don't seem to be too far off if you're building an e-bike with quality parts vs. finding a donor motorcycle that's basically functioning except for the engine.

The ability of the motorcycle to go quickly on the roadway is a definite perk. I see less likelihood of theft as a perk for the motorcycle. Laziness can be a perk of the motorcycle.

Perks of the bicycle would be not dealing with traffic. Not dealing with DMV bullshit, having to pay insurance, registration, plate renewal, or worrying about the cops. Less likelihood of a serious injury crash. Theft concerns me and I'm not sure if it would reduce my quality of life on the bike when I'm either having to disconnect a big battery pack and take it with me places or worrying about the bike getting stolen if I leave it locked up outside.

What would your preferred ride be?

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by markz » Apr 12 2020 5:07pm

With an E-Bicycle you can bicycle on pathways and sidewalks and in parks, single track trails. You can take your ebike on the train or a bus with a bike rack. You can pack up the ebike and take the Greyhound bus. Cheaper parts, and more readily available parts, you can switch the frame of a bicycle cheaper, suspension components are cheaper, you can switch the seat, handlebars, tires more easily and cheaply. If you are stuck out in the boondocks, its easier to get parts, and cheaper.

Not so with an E-Motorcycle, in addition you'll need a license plate, insurance, registration which all cost money, perhaps even an inspection for road safety. If you plan on longer rides, say to the next city then a motorcycle is good. Also parking, where are you going to park the motorcycle. A bonus to a motorcycle is you can have another person ride behind you.

A bicycle you can bring into your apartment, store in a shed more easily, takes up less space, is lighter, you can go many more places with it.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by amberwolf » Apr 14 2020 4:36am

what are your range needs?

what are your speed needs?


those two things will tell you if your budget could do any form of motorcycle, because they directly affect how big and how good a battery you'll need, and that is the very most important and most expensive part. you could easily spend the whole $2000 on just a battery for a motorcycle and still not get much out of it.

if you need much beyond "ebike" (20-25mph) speeds, power usage goes way way up real fast, for every few mph faster you go.

if, additionally, you need more than a few miles of range, capacity needs also go up real fast along with the above.


some other things that will affect the battery needs.

what is your riding style? (slow gradual accleration, or quick takeoffs?; in-traffic lots of stop/starts, or nonstop riding)

what is your terrain and weather? (flat, hills, mountains; calm, windy, etc?)

weight (you and bike and anything you carry)?


if it's a motorcycle, you'll be in traffic, so probably lots of stops/starts, and you'll have to accelerate quickly enough to get out of the way of impatient drivers, and you'll be heavy. that will all eat up a lot of power, and capacity. so the battery has to be bigger and better.

if you also have hills, or winds, or both, and/or you yourself (or your carry-on stuff) weigh a lot, it will magnify the problem.


a bicycle will be much much lighter, and you can avoid traffic, and you'll be at much slower speeds, so you'll automatically need much less power and capacity, even for the same range and terrain. so you don't need nearly as big a battery, or as good of one. at a guess you could use less than a tenth of the size you'd need for a motorcycle for similar routes and distances/etc, depending on conditions/etc.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Electric Earth » Apr 14 2020 10:26am

The one long trip I would Like to be able to do if possible is about 80mi to visit family sometimes. There's a long, mostly gravel bike path that goes most of the way, or I'd be taking county hwys at ~60-65mph. I do have a truck, so I can just use that, but the idea of this all is to reduce usage and go electric as much as possible.

Beyond that, I'd just go as big as I can afford on whatever battery I build.

As for starting speed, I'm not one of those slow rollers. Whether under my own pedal power or on throttle with my old ebike(cheap Amazon kit on a full suspension Trek MTB frame), my nature is to get on the power when I'm able to go.

For speeds, I'd want at Least 25mph on the ebike. 30-35 would be better for those long stretches when no one's around. For the motorcycle, 65 would be good so that I can get on the local hwy(55 speed limit, but of course it flows faster).

My random estimation is that the motorcycle would be ~150-200lbs more than the ebike. Do you think that's totally off?

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by markz » Apr 14 2020 2:20pm

I rode 45 miles yesterday at a casual pace (15-20mph) along a multi-use pathway on an ebike. If it was gravel, a full suspension ebike would have been the first choice. One side of the stream had the pathway I was on, the other side had a gravel road for access all along the stream, which there were people running and walking their dogs. On that ride, I could enjoy the mountain scenery, I could enjoy the horses and cows and barns and farm fields. I was at one with nature and enjoying my surroundings. I could stop and sit on a bench or read the nature plaques about how the canal was built.

There was only 10 miles between a gas stations where I could recharge the battery. I have a battery capable of 15 miles at the moment.
You'd have to look at your charging spots to see what your battery size is, along with speed and terrain. If there is nothing for 80 miles, then depending on the speed and terrain, a 2000wh or more would be needed for the ebike, again depending on speed, terrain and if you pedal or not. Sometimes I dont like to pedal at all other times I like to pedal especially up hills to save battery power.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Electric Earth » Apr 14 2020 7:56pm

Huh. I think your last post just pretty much steered me toward the ebike. I do love to ride, enjoy the scenery, and stop to smell the roses when I feel like it. I'd just need to look into local laws and make sure they aren't too limiting. I don't want to have a bike that clearly far exceeds legal limits and have it taken from me. My thought was to build a 48v system around a DD hub. Probably around 750-1000w. I think that combination will give me my goal of the 25-35mph range. I'm thinking a 40-50ah battery would get me the mileage I want for long trips, and make it so I don't have to charge more than probably once per week in my daily town riding. I'd have to wait until I get the motor decided and figure out the exact battery size then. I do tend to pedal when I ride. I've been a cyclist my whole life and it just doesn't suit me to simply sit and roll. I don't want to Have to pedal, though, or pedal hard when I don't feel like it. I'd like to be able to do the 80mi trip with casual pedalling.

For the build, my thought is full suspension MTB. I'd try to find something with short suspension travel(I won't actually MTB with it) and room for wide street tires. Basically I'd build a small, slower, light weight motorcycle out of a MTB. I'd just have to figure out how to stuff a lot of battery on the frame, and get myself the biggest, toughest bike lock on the market.

I don't know if this would be practical at all, but would a battery warmer that runs off of the battery power make sense for cold weather parking for several hours if needed? WI can get cold, and I'd like to be able to ride year around if possible.

I wish the Bafang G310 geared motor came in more than 500w. It would be nice to have a smaller, lighter, quiet motor on the bike.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Balmorhea » Apr 14 2020 11:33pm

Electric Earth wrote:
Apr 14 2020 7:56pm
I don't know if this would be practical at all, but would a battery warmer that runs off of the battery power make sense for cold weather parking for several hours if needed? WI can get cold, and I'd like to be able to ride year around if possible.
From a power standpoint, that would only make sense if you had the battery pack inside a good thermally insulating enclosure, like an expanded polystyrene ice chest.
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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by amberwolf » Apr 15 2020 12:19am

Electric Earth wrote:
Apr 14 2020 7:56pm
I'm thinking a 40-50ah battery
keep in mind that depending on which specific cells you go with, and the design of the holders and enclosure, this will be around 40lbs+, and the volume of a large stack of hardback books, or a large truck-style 12v lead battery.

and get myself the biggest, toughest bike lock on the market.
there are a lot of threads here about anti-theft measures if you poke around using *theft*, thief, thieves, steal, stole*, etc., as keywords. but if they really want your bike, and you're not there, it's gone. :(


I don't know if this would be practical at all, but would a battery warmer that runs off of the battery power make sense for cold weather parking for several hours if needed? WI can get cold, and I'd like to be able to ride year around if possible.
keep the battery inside when not riding. if you can't bring it in, you're going to have to do something to warm it up before you can charge it, if it gets down to freezing, etc. discharging when cold is usually safe enough, but current will be reduced (if for no other reason than voltage sag increasing with cold).

you could power an internal heating system from the battery, but power usage may be excessive depending on the temperature difference you are trying to create (even with a good thermally well-insulated enclosure). you would be better off setting it up to be powered from the outlets available for engine-block-heaters, if you have those in your area, when you have to stop and leave it parked outside somewhere. (you could also use the power from the outlet to top off the charge at the same time).

you'll need to look at the amount of power needed to heat something to whatever temperature you need, at the temperatures of the outside at the worst case weather you'd ride in. then decide if you can live with that much wasted power.
I wish the Bafang G310 geared motor came in more than 500w. It would be nice to have a smaller, lighter, quiet motor on the bike.
use two. one on the front, one on the rear. then you have twice the power. ;)

yes, it will weigh a little more than one single motor with the same power...but not that much more.

and you get redundancy and all-wheel-drive as side benefits. ;)

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Electric Earth » Apr 15 2020 11:18am

amberwolf wrote:
Apr 15 2020 12:19am
keep in mind that depending on which specific cells you go with, and the design of the holders and enclosure, this will be around 40lbs+, and the volume of a large stack of hardback books, or a large truck-style 12v lead battery.

use two. one on the front, one on the rear. then you have twice the power. ;)
My first thought on the battery would be to build a custom triangle pack that's basically permanently mounted. Then I'd dress that up to look like a frame-bag for bikepacking. To me it's more of a hassle than I want to deal with constantly connecting and disconnecting a battery and carrying it into every place I go to. I'd just use a Big lock like the highest rated Kryptonite or something. I wouldn't leave it out overnight or anything, and don't live in a city, so I think it would be OK.

I've read up on cold whether usage some and know you have to let it come up to room temp before charging. I thought riding the bike with a freezing battery was bad for it. Good to know that using it cold won't damage it. I doubt I'd ever ride too much below freezing. Once it hits mid-20s, I'd probably just take my truck. WI get really windy too when it's cold, and it's just miserable and tempting frost bite to ride in it. I'm not That committed to being 100% electric.

As for two motors, I'd still be limited to ~20mph with a 500w motor, right? I'd really like to have about 10mph more out of it for longer trips. I don't really care that much about acceleration power. I need to do more research. I previously learned more about DD rather than geared motors. I'd love to have a small geared motor so that there's no drag penalty for not using the motor, no drag if I kill the battery and have to pedal, and reduced weight. The stealth factor is pretty nice too.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by amberwolf » Apr 15 2020 3:56pm

Electric Earth wrote:
Apr 15 2020 11:18am
My first thought on the battery would be to build a custom triangle pack that's basically permanently mounted. Then I'd dress that up to look like a frame-bag for bikepacking. To me it's more of a hassle than I want to deal with constantly connecting and disconnecting a battery and carrying it into every place I go to. I'd just use a Big lock like the highest rated Kryptonite or something. I wouldn't leave it out overnight or anything, and don't live in a city, so I think it would be OK.
without the theft issue, but with cold like you're talking about, you might want to reconsider that, unless you can insulate it really well, and maybe build heaters into it that you can leave plugged in in the worst weather.

it depends on how cold the pack would actually get, and that's something you would have to test under the conditions you have there. you could build a box with the right dimensions, and pack it with a similar thermal mass, and put some electronic thermometer sensors in there in various places (or just one and move it around over a number of test sessions).

but to be accurate, that testing would have to be done under the cold conditions, and you probably don't have as much of those at the moment, or as bad, as you will in the winter.


I've read up on cold whether usage some and know you have to let it come up to room temp before charging. I thought riding the bike with a freezing battery was bad for it. Good to know that using it cold won't damage it. I doubt I'd ever ride too much below freezing. Once it hits mid-20s, I'd probably just take my truck. WI get really windy too when it's cold, and it's just miserable and tempting frost bite to ride in it. I'm not That committed to being 100% electric.
if you're not going to be in deep cold, then as long as you're riding it the battery will warm itself up to some degree, and if you insulate the entire enclosure, like say with 1" styrofoam sheets, or the 1" foil-covered foamboard insulation available at home improvement places, the heat it does generate will stay in it.

but you should still bring the battery inside with you whenever it is possible to do so.

if you *have* to, you could add the heaters. if you use regular reptile heaters, the flat rubber mats, they run off 110vac normally, and have no thermal controls, etc. they're just always on. so you could install those between the insulation sheets and the battery, and then wire them to a switch that connects them to the battery pack. if the pack is a 48v, then they will run at less than half the power they were designed for, but it would still be enough to keep a pack from freezing, if ti's that cold (especially windy). just don't leave them connected to the pack, bms or not, when you're not actually present, or you could forget and they could drain the pack completely dead, even if the bms shuts off the output (because many of those don't *completely* shut off the output, so there are still leakage currents if it's left long enough (days, weeks, etc)).

you also want to be sure the heaters cannot *overheat* the pack, just keep it from freezing, or getting so cold that voltage sag is so great under any load that it doesn't operate the way you need it to.

As for two motors, I'd still be limited to ~20mph with a 500w motor, right?
it's not just a 500w motor anymore when you have two of them used at the same time. ;) it's effectively a 1000w motor, and it would actually be able to sustain greater continuous power than a single 1000w motor, because it has more surface area and more thermal mass to radiate / absorb the waste heat.

so if your speed limit is simply not enough power at a single 500w motor, then two would increase the limit to whatever that supports under your conditions.

the major things that limit speed (other than power vs load / air resistance) are wheel size vs motor rpm at a specific max voltage. the motor rpm at voltage is a function of it's kv (rpm per volt) and it's gearing ratio (for geared motors, either geared hubs in a wheel, or motors not in the wheel that drive it by chain, belt, etc).



i would go to http://ebikes.ca/simulator , read the entire page so you know what everything is and how it works, and then experiment with different setups. it can simulate two separate systems at the same time, either to compare them, or to add them together for 2wd. even if they don't have the motor listed that you want to use, you can still use it to see how the system will change with one vs two motors, or different controller current limits, battery voltages/etc, and different situations (higher winds, hills, low vs high weight, etc).

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Dauntless » May 15 2020 8:28pm

Electric Earth wrote:
Apr 12 2020 4:09pm
What would you build for getting around a small city with pretty decent bike paths and a budget of ~$2,000?

What would your preferred ride be?
Maybe not build, just put a bigger hub on.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » May 16 2020 8:39am

Lot's of good advice here. Markz and Amberwolf I think really hit it- you're really gonna want an eBike (aside from Daunt's comment) because you really *can't* get an eMotorbike for that price and it comes with a lot of other fees- like tires! Another detail touched on was safety; above ~35mph, you're considered a trauma center candidate no matter your age or gear and you jump onto a bell curve of the chance of being killed outright. Keeping below 35MPH isn't just a good idea when it comes to wind resistance- it straight-out keeps you alive. The cash you save keeping it "slow" is also a bonus.

As for what motor, battery, and even bike type all comes down to what your riding conditions are. I can say, despite my lack of experience with ebikes, that videos from Justin of Grin Technologies are invaluable and hub drives might not be as good as even I first thought. Get the other members an idea of your local hills and typical commute- it's very possible (in my case it was) that you're going complete overkill.
Electric Earth wrote:
Apr 14 2020 7:56pm
I don't know if this would be practical at all, but would a battery warmer that runs off of the battery power make sense for cold weather parking for several hours if needed? WI can get cold, and I'd like to be able to ride year around if possible.

I wish the Bafang G310 geared motor came in more than 500w. It would be nice to have a smaller, lighter, quiet motor on the bike.
How about this 750w Bafang? I was thinking about it for my Sondors: https://electrobikeworld.com/products/4 ... -hub-motor

I doubt you'll need any "warming". The real damage that's incurred to ebike batteries (or batteries of any sort, really) is uncontrolled temps during charge cycles and aggressive discharge rates. Since an ebike battery is easily detached to be taken inside- even the Zero eMotorcycle has removable batteries, and everyone here can tell you that you should NEVER charge your battery out of eyesight just in case- you should be starting each day with a warm battery in a case that'll keep some temp in itself no matter what WI throws at you, unless you're riding for several hours. Add in the fact that a 500w would be hard-pressed to pull enough to cause a sag with any battery with the capacity you're thinking of, and I think you'll be just fine.
Dauntless wrote:
May 15 2020 8:28pm
Electric Earth wrote:
Apr 12 2020 4:09pm
What would you build for getting around a small city with pretty decent bike paths and a budget of ~$2,000?

What would your preferred ride be?
Maybe not build, just put a bigger hub on.

https://www.amazon.com/Super73-Z1-Elect ... B07ZDL64Z1
Dauntless also has a good idea here- Pit Bikes! If you don't want/need the exercise part of ebiking and require more stability and capacity, a busted pit bike can be had for a song off of facebook marketplace/craigslist (I've seen some frames for "sale" in exchange for beer) and parts are just as easy to come by and swap. The fanbase around them seems great too- dudes on youtube like ReadBeard's Garage really want to see cool, wild stuff and don't much care otherwise what's on it because it's hard to be a "purist" around something when you're engine was a used single-thumper Tecumseh off a lawn mower :p. Just know it'll be harder to be stealthy around cops on these.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by markz » May 17 2020 5:29pm

CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING wrote:
May 16 2020 8:39am
Sondors
I saw this Sondors yesterday while riding in the community of Riverbend, I couldnt really tell if it was a Sondors right off the bat, but the triangle cabinet was a give away. And, how could I miss the milk crate on the rear rack yesterday.
How much were the Sondors originally? $800 or something usd, so x1.3 would be $1000cdn. The ad, wants $1350cdn for wimpy ass 350W ebike. Hope its not anyones ad here on ES :lol: after me dissing their price they want.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-ebike/calgary/2 ... 1501142186

I would put a mxus 3kw fat rear hub on it, with a greentime sensorless 48V50A controller and throw in some rc lipo's into the triangle cabinet. Then throw some Statorade into the hub itself and grab a few thumb throttles, always need spares. Then grab your angle grinder and some steel plate for the torque arms.

As an alternative, a department store fat bike, purchased used for half the price, and the same setup.
For less weight, less power, Leaf 1500W fat rear hub kit.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Smoke » May 27 2020 1:21am

CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING wrote:
May 16 2020 8:39am
Lot's of good advice here. Markz and Amberwolf I think really hit it- you're really gonna want an eBike (aside from Daunt's comment) because you really *can't* get an eMotorbike for that price and it comes with a lot of other fees- like tires! Another detail touched on was safety; above ~35mph, you're considered a trauma center candidate no matter your age or gear and you jump onto a bell curve of the chance of being killed outright. Keeping below 35MPH isn't just a good idea when it comes to wind resistance- it straight-out keeps you alive. The cash you save keeping it "slow" is also a bonus.
I can pretty safely say those stats are BS. What I hear is that most motorcycle accidents are alcohol related and most of the motorcycle accidents reported as not alcohol related are just cops and emergency responders trying not to give a gravely injured rider legal problems too.

What I know as a bicyclist is every time I get passed by a car, if they immediately turn right, I'm going down.

If you are visible to drivers and keeping up with traffic, your risk is going to go down a lot.

Of course if you are drunk and doing 90mph in a 35 zone, that could end very badly but they are very different risks.

As for ebike vs. electric motorcycle, you don't have the budget to do an electric motorcycle.

If you don't want theft, you are going to have to bring your bike with you everywhere.

If you want long range, prepare to ride pretty slow, pedal as you go and spend a lot on your battery.

I'm trying to do the math to get my scooter to do 10 miles before battery temps get too high. To be fair, my battery pack is pretty small and the cells aren't ideal for high current discharge but to go 80 miles, you will need a much larger battery, it will probably eat a lot of your budget and your 80 mile trip will take at least 3 hours, probably more like 4.

If you design for short trips and do the 80 mile trip another way, you can spend more to make sure it is a good bike than just spending to maximize range.

And speaking of range, I don't know a lot about expensive electric motorcycles but it might be hard to find one that will do 80 miles at 65 mph. It would need about a 15kWh battery that can do a sustained discharge of about 12,500 watts for 75 minutes.

My 1kWh pack will cost about $300 in cells and materials, actual cost is higher due to BMS, tools, etc. but it suggests a 15kWh battery might cost $4,500 in materials. You could probably do a bit better than that but not much.
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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Balmorhea » May 27 2020 5:35am

Smoke wrote:
May 27 2020 1:21am
What I hear is that most motorcycle accidents are alcohol related and most of the motorcycle accidents reported as not alcohol related are just cops and emergency responders trying not to give a gravely injured rider legal problems too.

What I know as a bicyclist is every time I get passed by a car, if they immediately turn right, I'm going down.
And yet, bicyclists get hurt and killed a whole lot less often than motorcyclists. They must be abstainers. Surely speed has nothing at all to do with it.
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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by john61ct » May 27 2020 9:26am

In NA at least, many drivers just hate bikers being on the road

subconsciously want to actively murder them.

As we get faster I doubt that element will be reduced, without extensive changes in government policy and the built infrastructure.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by pullin-gs » May 27 2020 12:48pm

This 28Mph e-conversion project was engineered with a focus on value, performance, and stealth.
My build does not look like its e-powered. It is also very quiet.
Motor wheel swaps out for standard wheel: Still provides efficient PEDAL-ONLY option for fitness rides without sacrificing my speed (human-powered speed is important to me).
Utility....can carry groceries, a pizza, laptop, or other stuff. Great for running errands around town.
Light weight and compact....need to be able to lift trike by myself into truck along with my wife's trike (same build).

Here is what I ended up with:
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$$ Spent: $1300
$500: Used TerraTrike Cruise. Chromoly Frame. 300lb rider rated.
$150: BMS Q128C 36V motor
$45: Rear wheel build.....I laced up motor to a $25 ebike rim and $20 custom 13G spokes.
$50: Pack#1 Scratch-built 12S1P 8AH LIPO battery.
$500: Pack#2 Sanyo 29E 10S6P pack....I like $50 LIPO better!!!
$20: Brainpower KSDLM25 1000W 38A Brushless Speed Controller.
$10: Generic hand-grip throttle.
$15: 25 AMP switch and various stainless fittings and aluminum.

Other:
Solar charge-station: $150 ($100 solar panel, $40 charge controller, $10 metal frame).
Trike is 100% solar powered (solar panel is fixed to my house....just used to charge battery on Trike when not in use).

Performance specs:
Exceeded expectations.
With 44V 12S $50 performance 8AH pack. 28MPH max (750W going into motor), sustained average 22MPH for entire pack. 20 mile range @15MPH.
With 36V 10S6P $500 off-the-shelf 18AH Sanyo pack. 22MPH max (500W going into motor), sustained average 20MPH. 45 mile range @15MPH.
49lbs fully loaded....yes, only 49lb!
Both trikes fit in back of mid-size pickup (Chevy Colorado long-bed).
Under budget.
Non-powered pedal-only configuration: I can average same speed as before trike was converted: Simply unclip/remove pack, swap out rear wheel for quick-release stock wheel. Takes one minute. I can still average 15MPH for my long rides without e-power.
Hill climb is good....can sustain 18MPH max for 8% hill. Florida is flat, so this is not a problem for me.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I over-volt motor to 44V which gives me fast stop/go runs. After running this on a track or curvy path with lots stop/go motor gets very hot after 5 minutes. I ride hard, but do not abuse it to point of failure.
Motor draws about 600W at 28MPH on flats. Will draw upwards of 750W during full-throttle acceleration. I've been running this configuration for over a year (2000+ miles) without a hitch.
Last edited by pullin-gs on May 30 2020 7:33am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » May 29 2020 6:42pm

Smoke wrote:
May 27 2020 1:21am
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING wrote:
May 16 2020 8:39am
Lot's of good advice here. Markz and Amberwolf I think really hit it- you're really gonna want an eBike (aside from Daunt's comment) because you really *can't* get an eMotorbike for that price and it comes with a lot of other fees- like tires! Another detail touched on was safety; above ~35mph, you're considered a trauma center candidate no matter your age or gear and you jump onto a bell curve of the chance of being killed outright. Keeping below 35MPH isn't just a good idea when it comes to wind resistance- it straight-out keeps you alive. The cash you save keeping it "slow" is also a bonus.
I can pretty safely say those stats are BS. What I hear is that most motorcycle accidents are alcohol related and most of the motorcycle accidents reported as not alcohol related are just cops and emergency responders trying not to give a gravely injured rider legal problems too.
I'm a paramedic- you're gonna have to prove those figures to me, because things like the "35MPH Trauma center" bit are my protocols that was adopted from a national review.
pullin-gs wrote:
May 27 2020 12:48pm
This 28Mph e-conversion project was engineered with a focus on value, performance, and stealth.
My build does not look like its e-powered. It is also very quiet.
Efficient PEDAL-ONLY option for fitness rides without sacrificing my speed (human-powered speed is important to me) for longer rides (40+ miles).
Utility....can carry groceries, a pizza, laptop, or other stuff. Great for running errands around town.
Light weight and compact....need to be able to lift trike by myself into truck along with my wife's trike (same build).
That's pretty neat. The Viper's cool too!

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by pullin-gs » May 29 2020 7:50pm

CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING wrote:
May 29 2020 6:42pm
That's pretty neat. The Viper's cool too!
Unfortunately the dodge sees less action than the e-trike does!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD_mHqUxeXw&t=102s

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Electric Earth » May 30 2020 9:28am

pullin-gs wrote:
May 27 2020 12:48pm
This 28Mph e-conversion project was engineered with a focus on value, performance, and stealth.
Glad you posted this. An e-trike was actually on my mind the more I thought about the build. I think it could be a good option in the winter due to the ability to add a large fairing to keep me warmer in freezing temps.

Do you think an e-trike would feel stable at 30-35mph on a gravel bike path?

Do you think it would still feel stable and corner well if the rider were up a foot higher off of the ground?

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Balmorhea » May 30 2020 2:08pm

Trikes don't do well on cambered surfaces, at all. That includes the curb lane on a lot of streets. If you want to turn, at speed, towards the uphill side of the camber, the trike wants you on your head.

Granny trikes become terrifying at about 15 mph, and most tadpole trikes at about 20 mph (if their steering characteristics don't do it at lower speeds).

I work on a lot of trikes. They seem like they be docile, easy, and safe compared to a two wheeler, but they're not. If you want to go 30 mph, you're much better off on two wheels.
___________
Finish Reconstruction.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by pullin-gs » May 31 2020 11:54am

Electric Earth wrote:
May 30 2020 9:28am

Do you think an e-trike would feel stable at 30-35mph on a gravel bike path?
No. 20MPH max on gravel.
My trike is quite stable on paved surfaces up to about 25MPH. Things get twitchy for anything over this.
30MPH+ is dangerous and asking for trouble on my setup.
A longer wheelbase trike that the one I have would be more stable though.
Electric Earth wrote:
May 30 2020 9:28am
Do you think it would still feel stable and corner well if the rider were up a foot higher off of the ground?
Going another foot higher decrease stability.

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by Electric Earth » Jun 03 2020 5:33pm

I was under the impression that velomobiles were pretty fast, and basically a trike with an aerodynamic body over them. Am I mistaken, or is there something that makes them different and better at high speed stability?

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by ddk » Jun 03 2020 5:53pm

Electric Earth wrote:
Jun 03 2020 5:33pm
I was under the impression that velomobiles were pretty fast, and basically a trike with an aerodynamic body over them. Am I mistaken, or is there something that makes them different and better at high speed stability?
your assumption is , more or less, correct.

For some reason, people laugh when I call my 'other' trike a velomobile!
...dunno why that is...
my other trike part 2.jpg
my other trike part 2.jpg (60.97 KiB) Viewed 664 times
"How can we play Hot Wheels without lighter fluid? " -Serge

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Re: E-bike or E-motorcycle?

Post by markz » Jun 03 2020 8:28pm

ddk wrote:
Jun 03 2020 5:53pm
For some reason, people laugh when I call my 'other' trike a velomobile!
...dunno why that is...my other trike part 2.jpg
Why do you have that thing enclosed, do you not want your hair doo messed up from the wind?

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