Big full size electric van. What size battery?

marty

marty

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Buffalo, New York USA
I got a 1994 Ford E-250 Van. Big full size van. I got lots of used Makita power tool battery packs. If I did a electric vehicle conversion. About how many of these 18650 Li-Ion cells would it take to move this van 50 miles? I would be happy with a top speed of about 50 miles per hour. City driving only. If it helps figure this out? Van got about 10 miles per gallon of gasoline, highway and city driving. This truck has the aerodynamics of a refrigerator and weighs 5000 pounds empty.
View attachment 1
94_ford_e250 009.JPG
I realize that this might be a stupid candidate for a electric vehicle conversion and I would be better off using a small car. But me and this van have had a very close relationship for the last 19 years. I bought her new. Van is no longer on the road. It starts and runs great. Needs a brake line and leaks a way lot of oil.

Here are some details of these battery cells:
Copy from:
Konion Makita LiMn battery care and feeding by Doctorbass
Post by Doctorbass » Fri May 06, 2011 2:06 am
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 14&t=27707

Here are their specs:

18650V: ( the most popular for ebikes)
( same as the Sanyo’s UR18650W)

-Voltage range: 3.0 to 4.2V
-Nominal voltage 3.7V
-Capacity: 1500mAh(10C) to 1600mAh(1C)
-Max Discharge C rate: 10C ( 15-16A)
-Max Charge C-rate: 1.5 to 2C depending on the cooling
-Cycle life: 700 cycles to 75% initial capacity ( from BMZ manufacture)
-Cycle life claimed by Makita: 1200 cycles
-Internal resistance 30miliohm per cells
-Released in 2005... still existing in 2011
Click to expand...
 
I would ballpark the power consumption at 500-600 wh/mile
each cell is 5.5wh
so about 100 cells per mile of range.
 
marty said:
I got a 1994 Ford E-250 Van. ...this might be a stupid candidate for a electric vehicle conversion and I would be better off using a small car. ...
Click to expand...
Just because it's heavy doesn't make it a poor candidate for conversion. Some e-trains are heavy, you know.
It seems you're settled on the battery but not anything else, but I don't know.
I wouldn't make the top speed a mere 50 mph (80 km/hr). The ability to get on the freeway is an asset, and you already have a working transmission. Are you planning to use it?
Do you have any motors in consideration?
To me, the starting point with the design would be the money. If you have plenty, you can do plenty.
You'll probably qualify for the $7,500 total federal tax credit of $417 for each kilowatt-hour of battery capacity over 5 kwh.
9,090 cells would provide 50 kwh weighing 391 kg for $12,500. If you have the money, jump on it.
 
ha! love it...is that a bed I spy in the back of that van!..chillin bus / home made camper/tour bus..

or is it the lair of the Eco night stalker!.. :wink:

the shape of that "fridge" does lend its self to one thing though...the roof would make a "nice" solar panel area for free charging over a day or two "on site"...

MMmwhha ha ha... charging for free by day...luring young maidens into your van by night!... :shock: :wink: :wink: :lol:

not sure what kind of power it would need exactly, a lot as it looks damn heavy.. tesla roadsters powerpack (I prusume you would need this or maybe more?) is 3.1Ah * 3.6V * 8000 cells gives ~90kWh
is it FWD or rear...you could just put hub motors in the un powered wheels and I imagined basically the whole of the floor would need raising in the back 6inches and stuffed full of lithium...(using it as a hybrid, then replace the engine with more cells/motors? when your ready to go all electric!)

or in your case, fill under your bed with batteries & maybe the motor direct to the back axle instead... might even add a vibrate/massage feature to your "sleeping" arrangements!.. hehe
 
fizzit,
Thanks for the math. Looks like I will need a bigger pile of batteries. Please see picture.
makita_Li-ion_18V_3.0Ah_1.5Ah_pile.jpg
Nehmo,
Don't think that spending any money on a 18 year old rusty vehicle is smart. Who said I am smart :? As far as taxes go. All I do is sign the papers that the account fills out. I try not to think about numbers and taxes.

Ninjamik,
Yep that's a bed. I do nice woodworking, If I do say so myself. See the woofer under the bed? See 2 of the 4 speakers? Pictures can not show the excellent sound of the sound system. Got 2 amplifiers under the bed. I do love this van, sort of like a 6000 pound girl friend. Aside from the few times she went to the dealer for warranty stuff. I have done all repairs since she was new. I am the only mechanic, (doctor) she has ever known. Going to take some more pictures today.
 
If the LiPO's rockin', don't bother knockin'.
 
Nice!...the woodwork is impressive mate!..

was just a little envious of your night stalking abilities! :wink:

no I mean, I have plans to do this with a van one day.(including solar roof and sides?) the freedom that would come with the ability to feed, rest, shelter, travel for basically free would be amazing..

you could go on a coast to coast Pan-Am trip or a multi nation Euro trip...all just parking up each night and staying the following day to "re-fuel" in the sun....you'd only need to buy food!..

trust me dude i'm a massive advocate of showing the manufacturing companies what a bit of skill can do...(I just built a $3000 Wacom Cintiq Pen Touchscreen graphics Tablet for $700) I mean I know she ain't no jessica alba but for a bit of skill n time you've got what would have cost 1000s of dollars for the same capabilities bought at the local RV garage....I mean who's to say Lipo, cant run more luxuries too!

only problem with the lipo would be..."she said the earth moved and she saw fireworks!...I knew it was time to run!"... :shock: :wink: haha
 
Marty! Would love to see his happen, as i am and old, van clan dude myself. All tough the van may be old, consider the work you have it, plus ford vans are well built. Plenty of room under the van for batteries.
If i was in a position to build something like this, I would start with a hybrid approach, and than ween off ICE, when better and or batteries become available.
Please post your progress.
 
Made a web photo gallery. Go here to see http://voltev.com/94ford/

I also would love to see this truck live on as a electric vehicle. Unfortunately I don't have time. Also I have too many unfinished projects.

Van is for sale. Special discount for Endless Sphere members. I also have all the service manuals.

Will place adds on eBay and CraigsList.
 
1 US gallon = 3.785 liter

gasoline = 9,700 Wh/l ...maybe

if 9000 Wh/L, 34,000 Wh/gal

if 10 mpg, 3,400 Wh/m

if 50 miles, 170 kWh

if only 80% of nominal capacity used, 212.5 kWh

at 3.7V and only 1.5 Ah, 5.55 Wh per cell

38,288 cells

:)

Lock
 
PM me or add to for sale section with asking price. 'been considering a new apt for NYC...
 
haha...if I wasn't stuck in the Uk i'd consider it!..this van screams A-TEAM!!...just need an oxy acetylene torch and queue the music!...hehe
 
Lock said:
1 US gallon = 3.785 liter

gasoline = 9,700 Wh/l ...maybe

if 9000 Wh/L, 34,000 Wh/gal

if 10 mpg, 3,400 Wh/m

if 50 miles, 170 kWh

if only 80% of nominal capacity used, 212.5 kWh

at 3.7V and only 1.5 Ah, 5.55 Wh per cell

38,288 cells

:)

Lock
Click to expand...

You forget the huge efficiency difference between a gas engine and an electric motor :roll:
 
Assuming the engine was 22% efficient, and the electric drivetrain would be 84% efficient...

212.5 kWh x 0.22 x 1/.84 = 55.65kWh for 50 miles, or 1,110 Wh/Mi

I'd say 1kWh/Mi is a reasonable efficiency guesstimate for this van. Meaning, 180 cells per mile, assuming you get 5.55Wh/cell.

You might even need to drive it easier than you did with the ICE. All the electric cars getting 600Wh/mi are aerodynamic and designed for efficiency. This is far from that. The 1,100Wh/mi might actually be close to what it gets, if driven the same.
 
ZOMGVTEK said:
Assuming the engine was 22% efficient, and the electric drivetrain would be 84% efficient...

212.5 kWh x 0.22 x 1/.84 = 55.65kWh for 50 miles, or 1,110 Wh/Mi

I'd say 1kWh/Mi is a reasonable efficiency guesstimate for this van. Meaning, 180 cells per mile, assuming you get 5.55Wh/cell.

You might even need to drive it easier than you did with the ICE. All the electric cars getting 600Wh/mi are aerodynamic and designed for efficiency. This is far from that. The 1,100Wh/mi might actually be close to what it gets, if driven the same.
Click to expand...
I think 1kwh/mi is a very high est. I would do it like this..... Look at a known working Ev for instance whats the wh/mi for a Tesla... Then compare a lotus to a ford van for mpg it would be something like this. I think the Tesla is ~200wh/mi at 50mph and a lotus is proly ~ 40mpg CDN and the ford van is proly ~15mpg CDN so the van will use ~2.666x as much energy to travel at 50 mph so 2.666x 200 = 533.2 wh/mi Now I just guessed off the top of my head for the efficiency of the Tesla and I used to get ~15-20mpg CDN with my ford van and I guessed at the Lotus MPG.

Lotus is the Tesla chassis FYI.
 
All I see is "plug-to-wheel efficiency was 336 Wh/mi" for the Roadster, and Tesla claims about 300Wh/Mi for the Model S.

Add over a thousand pounds of mass to accelerate, dramatically higher rolling resistance, terribly aerodynamics, and city driving... 600-800Wh/mi is reasonable. I'd say plan to have 1,000Wh for every mile you NEED to travel to account for all the other random losses, such as wind and inclines.

It looks like this idea has been ditched anyways. Not a whole lot of people converting vans. It's expensive enough to make a pack for an efficient car.
 
Thanks all for the gas to electric conversion information.

SOLD.... Van is sold. Hope she is happy with her new owner.

Note to moderators - This was not a For Sale thread. More like breaking up with a girl friend. Truck was a bit like a out of control girlfriend. She ran great but was unable to stop :?
 
since you gotta do the brake line anyway, seems like the oil leak was the only argument for a swap. you can fix the oil leak, and maybe do the rings, head and bottom end bearings at the same time to keep your baby purring.

if you wanna go electric, why not consider following the plug in hybrid route? instead of adding that many cells to a van, maybe add them to a honda civic hybrid and follow the threads that peter is creating for his insight hybrid upgrades.

that is the way i am thinking is gonna be cheapest and most reliable integrated way to add juice to the driving. jmho
 
dnmun said:
since you gotta do the brake line anyway, seems like the oil leak was the only argument for a swap. you can fix the oil leak, and maybe do the rings, head and bottom end bearings at the same time to keep your baby purring.

if you wanna go electric, why not consider following the plug in hybrid route? instead of adding that many cells to a van, maybe add them to a honda civic hybrid and follow the threads that peter is creating for his insight hybrid upgrades.

that is the way i am thinking is gonna be cheapest and most reliable integrated way to add juice to the driving. jmho
Click to expand...
Rust is what killed the truck. In places where they put salt on the roads to melt the ice, I think that people who buy vehicles made from steel are stupid.
_3755525549.jpg
 
hahahaha.

my honda wagon grew up in detroit. the front fenders used to flap in the wind because they had rusted out at the bottoms, so i put long sheet metal screws on to hold them.

i can't jack the car up because the rust is so bad the jack goes up through the sheet metal.

my brake line went in a flash. some lady in a fancy lexus pulled out in front of me and the pedal went to the floor when the rust blew out the line, so i had to steer around her while jerking on the emergency brake. that line rusted through in the rear wheel well where the brake line came out of the body. i cut it off at the break, pulled 4" of slack through the body and was able to get the swage nut off the old line and put it on ahead of where i had to swage it out again, connected the brake line, no problem.

they don't call it the rust belt for nothing.
 
You dont need to have enough batteries to move it 50 miles on electric alone. Just use enough to give it enough power and make the underhood area a space for an off the shelf 240volt generator running a 5kw charger. :D
 
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