Tesla Model S Performance vs Dodge Viper SRT10 Drag Racing

Take a look... The Tesla camera was installed backward


[youtube]VLCdP6sMN9k[/youtube]

Amazing!

Today for the lunch i took a seat in one model A.. WOW.. it's confortable and incredible building quality!

Next step: Trying it !!

The owner is the same guy as the one that have let me try his Tesla 2.5 roadster last summer. He now own also the model S

Doc

Doesn't really mean that much if you ask me. Viper is old (and not that quick), as is probably the driver. Maybe 400hp at the wheels. It obviously had way more than the S as evidenced by the higher trap speed. I'd still take the viper over the S (although I prefer Z06's).

I love how everytime the viper shifts, you just see the Tesla gain another car length.

In a race where you both had exactly equal power to weight and thrust to weight etc, if you simply didn't need to shift, you would win by like 4 car lengths just from the shifting delays alone.

liveforphysics said:

I love how everytime the viper shifts, you just see the Tesla gain another car length.

In a race where you both had exactly equal power to weight and thrust to weight etc, if you simply didn't need to shift, you would win by like 4 car lengths just from the shifting delays alone.

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Another reason to enjoy automatics for straight line performance (drag racing). I use to walk 1000+cc bikes on the highway (much to their owners disbelief) because they had to shift multiple times compared to my automatic. Our power to weigh was almost identical, but my car needed no shifts or just 1 shift and every shift the bike made they would fall back.

As for this race, none of the specs on the viper or the driver matter, this was a heads up drag race and the superior combination won, the Tesla S by a landslide. I would pick the Tesla S to win over most sports cars with everyday drivers if I was betting so many advantages working for it.

I recently saw a Tesla S on the 15 freeway right before heading down the Cajon pass a few weeks ago on my drive from Las Vegas to Ventura.

Doctorbass said:

Take a look... The Tesla camera was installed backward


Doc

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Yeah its pretty cool, I think the general population still has no idea an electric car can take off a lot faster then a combustion car. Telsa should use something like this in a TV ad, I doubt they could over play it to much. Sad reality is Tesla is running out of money, if they don't get some big consumer adoption soon they will be going to the wall forever this time.

Where is the info about Tesla running out of money?

Science Faction said:

Where is the info about Tesla running out of money?

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I don't know if you saw the documentary on Elon Musk (should be able to watch it on youtube) but he had to put most of his own life savings from his paypal sale etc into Tesla to keep it going as no one else was willing to invest. That documentary probably is a bit old now but things don't look much different now.

If you look at the financials Telsa lost 100million in the last quarter. Google finance shows most of the other car companies along side Tesla and there all making a net profit, Tesla stands out being a big loss maker. Even its revenues are incredibly low at only 50million, most companies post huge revenues even if they didn't make much money in net profit but Tesla did neither.
http://www.google.com/finance?ei=M10WUbCEI5HUkgXMEw&q=Tesla

Interesting Vid

Sequential manual gearboxes shift in around 50ms

TheBeastie said:

Science Faction said:

Where is the info about Tesla running out of money?

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I don't know if you saw the documentary on Elon Musk (should be able to watch it on youtube) but he had to put most of his own life savings from his paypal sale etc into Tesla to keep it going as no one else was willing to invest. That documentary probably is a bit old now but things don't look much different now.

If you look at the financials Telsa lost 100million in the last quarter. Google finance shows most of the other car companies along side Tesla and there all making a net profit, Tesla stands out being a big loss maker. Even its revenues are incredibly low at only 50million, most companies post huge revenues even if they didn't make much money in net profit but Tesla did neither.
http://www.google.com/finance?ei=M10WUbCEI5HUkgXMEw&q=Tesla

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That's poor american executive logic that only deems to appease share holders by posting quarter by quarter profits.

He is building a foundation and starting an entire line of vehicles, big money won't roll in until the avg joe model (not just a luxury sedan) is out and the product line expands to 3-4 cars (suv, compact, convertible)

He is building the solid basis to be the leader in EV by the time the market shift in that direction he will already be leading the pack.

Sadly with all things tech it's about timing, too early and you sink.
History shows you can be the best, but if you are ahead of the pack so much that the market isn't ready to adopt you will fail.

He got it right with space x, sure he can get it right with the cars.
Maybe tesla might net a gov contract with a new model, then again NYC gave it's next gen cabs to Nissan so who knows what the go is.

The Tesla Model S is such a remarkable car. I really want one! If and when the economy improves it will be the bread and butter for Tesla.

Science Faction said:

Where is the info about Tesla running out of money?

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Old news. I think a lot of there hard money times were/are the beginning of getting the first few cars out the door. Give them another year and the numbers will look way different. Look at all the new start up companies BRD, Tesla, Zero, etc its not easy to start something new from the ground up. Heck 2 of the 3 big companies who have been making cars in the USA for ~100 years, needed huge bail out money. Making a car for the public is not an easy task.

t3sla said:

TheBeastie said:

http://www.google.com/finance?ei=M10WUbCEI5HUkgXMEw&q=Tesla

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That's poor american executive logic that only deems to appease share holders by posting quarter by quarter profits.

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I mainly referenced it to answer cash reserves question, not to deal with the answer the question of if the company can be successful.
When you list public the game unfortunately boils down to at least making a profit annually, which has not happened. Still the market cap of Tesla is still 4 billion so that leaves plenty of room for capital raisings and stock dilution.
Also amazingly the stock price has gone upwards anyway which will cause the shareholders not to demand a new CEO or board members. When a stock price goes down shareholders don't care about the background they just get rid of them, good example of that was Jerry Yang as CEO of Yahoo, or Steve Jobs at Apple in the 80s.

Elon had to put the majority of his own money a fair while after the first Tesla model release as it didn't make enough to keep the company going, he talks about the fact in the documentary how most of the other USA car makers were getting big handouts from the government but Tesla couldn't get squat in new capital.

It seems from the numbers that it costs close to half a billion a year just to keep the lights on at Tesla.

....It seems from the numbers that it costs close to half a billion a year just to keep the lights on at Tesla.

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..and they currently have only the "S" (and some battery contracts ? ) to bring in the revenue !
Personally i dont see they have a +ve margin on the "S" at all...
..but even if the made $10k (20%) on each one....( dream on !).. they would still have to make/sell a thousand every week, just to break even !

Hillhater said:

....It seems from the numbers that it costs close to half a billion a year just to keep the lights on at Tesla.

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..and they currently have only the "S" (and some battery contracts ? ) to bring in the revenue !
Personally i dont see they have a +ve margin on the "S" at all...
..but even if the made $10k (20%) on each one....( dream on !).. they would still have to make/sell a thousand every week, just to break even !

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I can understand that being far removed to what's going on it appears that Tesla can't be profitable. If you're hobby is shorting stocks, (which it appears to be) then you guys are absolutely right. If however, you have half a clue about their production capability, design, and the sea change happening right now, it would quickly become obvious that Tesla is making more value than any car company in the past 100 years in an incredibly short amount of time.

They're going to do a lot more than keep the lights on guys.

Who cares if Tesla is financial able to sustain itself?

They did it. They released an example of an electric car being a superior driving experience than gas cars (for me, it was a nicer driving experience than ANY gas car, even rolls royces or the Ferrari's or even the lambo I got to flog in HK).

They created the proof that electric is the path to the ultimate driving experience.

Now the cats out of the bag in enough people's eyes that its not going to go back in the bag. Doesn't matter what happens to Tesla now (I really hope they make it though!), but at this point the contribution to EVs they made has impacted and the car market will never be the same again.

Musk wanted a world with awesome EV cars in it. Mission accomplished Mr. Musk. Now its just bean-counter shit in a path forward, and whos building them or what symbol appears on the hood doesn't really matter to me. The big OEMs have all driven the model S and are now frantically putting EV dev programs into action with a serious tone for the first time now, like its a path forward rather than some quirky car you make a minimum quantity of to sell to a handful of tree-huggers.

They showed electric cars, plain and simple can be a better car experience.

OK, i didn't expect the race to go like that.

So hilarious to see the dodge losing speed at every shift.
I thought that the viper would eventually overtake the Tesla, but wow. I think the aerodynamics of the Tesla won here, even given a lesser drivetrain.

neptronix said:

OK, i didn't expect the race to go like that.

So hilarious to see the dodge losing speed at every shift.
I thought that the viper would eventually overtake the Tesla, but wow. I think the aerodynamics of the Tesla won here, even given a lesser drivetrain.

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You can see the viper was catching up at the end. But the Tesla won right from the dig so I would say the easy to use system of the Tesla is what won it.
All the Tesla driver had to do was give it a push on the go peddle and the car was moving then he had to feed it down at a rate that did not spin the wheels to much. The viper on the other hand had to push the accelerator peddle to a spot to get enough rpm for enough torque from the motor he could then start slowly letting the clutch out and try to feed the accelerator down as he let the clutch out the rest of the way all the time trying not to spin or stall or bog the motor down out of its torque curve. It looked like the Viper bogged down out of its torque a bit on the launch so the start was not as good as it could have been but the viper lost ground every shift showing again how the simplicity of the Tesla is superior. I think I could have done better with the viper but the Tesla would have still won. I can launch a manual very well and I can shift fast and depending on the viper I can WOT shift which is a lot faster but there is still a split second of lost power to the wheels. In the End the viper had no chance. (not that model anyway)

It was really the start and the shifts that won the race for the Tesla and it was won in the first 1/8mile where aerodynamics don't play much of a roll.

Arlo1 said:

neptronix said:

OK, i didn't expect the race to go like that.

So hilarious to see the dodge losing speed at every shift.
I thought that the viper would eventually overtake the Tesla, but wow. I think the aerodynamics of the Tesla won here, even given a lesser drivetrain.

Click to expand...

You can see the viper was catching up at the end. But the Tesla won right from the dig so I would say the easy to use system of the Tesla is what won it.
All the Tesla driver had to do was give it a push on the go peddle and the car was moving then he had to feed it down at a rate that did not spin the wheels to much. The viper on the other hand had to push the accelerator peddle to a spot to get enough rpm for enough torque from the motor he could then start slowly letting the clutch out and try to feed the accelerator down as he let the clutch out the rest of the way all the time trying not to spin or stall or bog the motor down out of its torque curve. It looked like the Viper bogged down out of its torque a bit on the launch so the start was not as good as it could have been but the viper lost ground every shift showing again how the simplicity of the Tesla is superior. I think I could have done better with the viper but the Tesla would have still won. I can launch a manual very well and I can shift fast and depending on the viper I can WOT shift which is a lot faster but there is still a split second of lost power to the wheels. In the End the viper had no chance. (not that model anyway)

It was really the start and the shifts that won the race for the Tesla and it was won in the first 1/8mile where aerodynamics don't play much of a roll.

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Here is another video demonstrating your description, 6800lb van vs Corvette ZR1 Another advantage electrics have vs gas is they don't suffer from altitude sickness.

http://youtu.be/BAa7Dsq15Oc

Shifting and clutch/throttle control really aren't an issue with either a good driving, or commonly available OEM technology. The launch/traction control system on an EV would be very similar to that on an ICE vehicle.

Personally, I'd like to see more selectable gearing on electric cars. Single speed just doesn't seem right...

Punx0r said:

Shifting and clutch/throttle control really aren't an issue with either a good driving, or commonly available OEM technology. The launch/traction control system on an EV would be very similar to that on an ICE vehicle.

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That viper looks like an early model with out those features. A lot of performance guys don't use traction control at the strip. I have launch control and flat shift for both my auto 69 road runner (flat shift does nothing for an auto) and my srt4 and its not even close to a EV! Even with the auto in the Road Runner its allot harder to keep the power where you need to be then a EV with a flat torque curve. In first gear I can spin at any speed below 90km/h but the torque curve moves so on the line I hold the peddle at about 1/3 with the launch control on then let off the button and it launches then as soon as I let off the button I start to feed the peddle down to about 2/3 but as the rpm comes up I have to start letting off again to keep traction until about 70km then I feed it down again until i'm at about 90 and full throttle then shift at 100 and hope the tire just spin a bit when it shifts hard but if I'm on any sort of non perfect surface I need to let off to about 3/4 throttle as I shift then back down as I can.
All of this in an EV is just push the peddle to the point where the tires start to slip and hold it just there then as you gain speed feed it down slowly untill full throttle. Its so much simpler and superior!

Punx0r said:

Personally, I'd like to see more selectable gearing on electric cars. Single speed just doesn't seem right...

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Have you driven one? This has been argued a lot but there is no performance gain from a transmission in an EV and the reason is the added weight of a tranny would give you the same performance increase as a bigger motor. And with a bigger motor you don't have as many moving parts to fail and no need for oil!

Arlo1 said:

Punx0r said:

Personally, I'd like to see more selectable gearing on electric cars. Single speed just doesn't seem right...

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Have you driven one? This has been argued a lot but there is no performance gain from a transmission in an EV and the reason is the added weight of a tranny would give you the same performance increase as a bigger motor. And with a bigger motor you don't have as many moving parts to fail and no need for oil!

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I've been championing transmissions for electric drive train for a while. However, the more I learn about the gains possible in brushless commutation, the less I think it has any place at all. It will be cool to have, exactly as you mentioned, a selectable gearing, (rather than truly having to shift). However, it will probably not practically have much use.

Thumbs down on a tranny unless you need a special gear for a big load or going up a mountain. Invest the weight of the transmission in more motor instead and you come out ahead. Shifting gears reduces torque at the wheel, so it's an instant fail. Give me the continuous pull of no gear changes. Once you guys try a big hubby that can handle over 2krpm, learn to use a smaller wheel, and over-volt the hell out of it, then you'll understand.

John

When it comes to electric drag race white zombie the electric datsun comes to mind

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

dingoEsride said:

When it comes to electric drag race white zombie the electric datsun comes to mind

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

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How about a S10 in the 9s
[youtube]MYvZt6vmMy4[/youtube]

John in CR said:

Shifting gears reduces torque at the wheel, so it's an instant fail. ...

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OR you could put that the other way and say having a higher ratio available INCREASES torque at the wheel for take offs. :wink:
..BUT If you have enough torque to lose traction then a transmission is no help.