Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

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Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by grindz145 » Mar 09 2013 4:18pm

"a cross between a rail gun and Concorde."

I Just heard the keynote with Elon Musk for SXSW. He was asked about his idea for a "hyperloop" which is some sort of terrestrial form of transportation, which cannot crash and is not affected by weather, but it somehow not a train. Can run on solar?

What do you guys think he's getting at?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

This system I have in mind, how would you like something that can never crash, is immune to weather, it goes 3 or 4 times faster than the bullet train... it goes an average speed of twice what an aircraft would do. You would go from downtown LA to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes. It would cost you much less than an air ticket than any other mode of transport. I think we could actually make it self-powering if you put solar panels on it, you generate more power than you would consume in the system. There's a way to store the power so it would run 24/7 without using batteries. Yes, this is possible, absolutely. - Elon Musk, July 12, 2012

What you want is something that never crashes, that’s at least twice as fast as a plane, that’s solar powered and that leaves right when you arrive, so there is no waiting for a specific departure time,” Musk says. His friends claim he’s had a Hyperloop technological breakthrough over the summer. “I’d like to talk to the governor and president about it,” Musk continues. “Because the $60 billion bullet train they’re proposing in California would be the slowest bullet train in the world at the highest cost per mile. They’re going for records in all the wrong ways.” The cost of the SF-LA Hyperloop would be in the $6 billion range, he says - Sept 13, 2012 [6]

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by www.recumbents.com » Mar 09 2013 4:41pm

Some type of pneumatic tube then mixed with maglev technology. It will be interesting to see how he gets around the 1200 MPH air heating the tube.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by grindz145 » Mar 09 2013 5:04pm

It did mention somewhere that it is not a vacuum tube. I don't know if that's just semantics or what.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by flathill » Mar 09 2013 6:12pm

traveling wave resonant coupling coils
The trains carry their own energy between wireless charging while in motion "repeaters"
The vast majority of the track is unpowered to keep costs down
The trains self center in the tube
The tube coils are not active except the charging sections
No vacuum rev1 because it will still be subsonic to keep costs down

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by flyinmonkie » Mar 09 2013 9:48pm

Like this?
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by mrzed » Mar 10 2013 1:19am

It is way subsonic, so vacuum is not even remotely an issue. Note Musk says average speed is double, and uses the LA to SF route as a comparison. If you take the time the door closes and opens as start and end, it's not at all hard to beat short haul jets with fast trains, as the train will be at max speed very quickly while the jet taxis around the airport a good few minutes on each side no matter how short the flight.

It's the economics that sound unbeleviable. I hope he's not blowing smoke, because fast trains like that would be so much better than flying.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by DarylOster » Mar 11 2013 6:22pm

There is some speculation that Musk's "hyperloop" is a variation of the "Lofstrom Launch Loop"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_loop

Initially Musk said he would say what it was in 4 weeks (long gone). Last week he said he will first focus on making Tesla profitable so to avoid upsetting investors by working on a distraction.

ET3 tm ( http://www.et3.com ) is a patented electricly powered transportation technology that exceeds what Musk claims about his "hyperloop". ET3 stands for "Evacuated Tube Transport Technology" tm; where car sized vehicles (capsules) are magnetically levitated and operate in evacuated tubes (no air resistance like pneumatic tubes) like a car on a freeway, except automated for much higher capacity, safety and speed (as proven by automation of telcom).

ET3 at speeds up to about 400mph can be built for less than 1/10th the cost of HSR, and uses less than 1/50th as much energy as an electric car or train. If all nations build to the same standards (diameter etc.), then a "backbone" operating underground at 4000mph can connect everything into a global network, also delivering cargo one to three pallets at a time.

ET3 Global Allinace, Inc. is focused on implimenting ET3 on a global basis. We are an open consortium of licensees now over 225 strong in 18 nations.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Kingfish » Mar 12 2013 1:35pm

I am suddenly reminded of Genesis II (TV 1973) & Planet Earth (TV 1974), both both created by Gene Roddenberry. Sadly I cannot locate a youtube clip of those terribly painful productions that display the concept of a shuttle-car travelling through underground tubes at high speed.

I think it would be very expensive to keep the tube evacuated; however partial evacuation - lowering pressure to about 1/2 or more might be sustainable. Seems like an intersting challenge to maintain around stations and switchers + cornering at speed. Earthquakes could really be a problem, as could averse weather.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by lbz5mc12 » Mar 17 2013 11:03pm

That's all well and good but let's not forget that California is notorious for earthquakes. I think any kind of outside force that jostles the tube would have tragic consequences.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Kingfish » Jun 01 2013 12:26pm

Tesla founder promises details on futuristic 'Hyperloop' mass transit

Back in the news this morning.
Elon Musk, founder of the electric car company Tesla (among other things), has been dropping references to a new mode of rapid transit he calls the "Hyperloop" and described as "a cross between a Concorde, a railgun and an air hockey table." Supposedly, he'll share more this summer.

Musk said in an interview with CNBC Friday that California's massively expensive high-speed rail project got him thinking about it. He criticized its slowness, at least compared to similar systems in China and Europe, and its cost, which may be as high as $100 billion.

The Hyperloop, on the other hand, will be blazing fast, getting people from Los Angeles to San Francisco in under half an hour. And, he says, "it can be done for probably a tenth the cost per mile." But what is it?

No one knows, though many are speculating based on Musk's recent remarks. The Concorde was a famously fast (and famously expensive) supersonic passenger jet; a railgun propels a projectile using high-power magnetic forces; and air hockey tables hover the puck above the table with tiny jets of air.

The world already has magnetically levitated trains, of course, so it's not that. In fact, Musk has called it a "fifth mode of transportation," totally distinct from planes, trains, automobiles and boats.

Beyond that (and a few other tidbits here and there over the last few years), Musk has declined to give any further details other than that he himself won't be focusing on the project, but promised that following a major Tesla announcement on June 20, he'll have time to elaborate.
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by 100volts+ » Jun 01 2013 12:47pm

You people have no clue do you. Elon Musk has time traveled backward from the year 2650. I love the way he breaks future tech to us primatives at a smooth pace.
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Kingfish » Jun 01 2013 1:22pm

>> Timetravel
Meh. For me - it's do over :twisted:

Next time though I want to come back taller please. :roll:
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Dauntless » Jun 03 2013 10:18am

Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Jason27 » Jun 03 2013 9:38pm

Hyperloop will never happen. Republicans will block it like they block everything else.
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Dauntless » Jun 04 2013 12:12am

Jason27 wrote:Hyperloop will never happen. Republicans will block it like they block everything else.
First of all this is private enterprise, right where the Republicans want it. But more important it's the DEMOCRATS that will have to start behaving a whole lot better before there can be snarky remarks about Republicans again.
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by lester12483 » Jun 10 2013 6:09am

Musk is way ahead of his time. We need more billionaires like him who have vision to help humanity and actually USE their wealth rather than hoard it.

Musk needs to run for senate and get rid of Barbara Boxer in CA or perhaps governor. Then he can actually make some changes for the better.
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Kingfish » Jun 10 2013 9:49am

lester12483 wrote:Musk is way ahead of his time. We need more billionaires like him who have vision to help humanity and actually USE their wealth rather than hoard it.

Musk needs to run for senate and get rid of Barbara Boxer in CA or perhaps governor. Then he can actually make some changes for the better.
I think that would constrain him with self-interest. Better to have a minion or culture of friendly interests to do it for you.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by rojitor » Jul 15 2013 5:45pm

Supercool project! Can't wait to see it working in real life. I hope i live long enough to use it someday. Meanwhile my bike rocks da house.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by TylerDurden » Jul 15 2013 6:43pm

Kingfish wrote:I think it would be very expensive to keep the tube evacuated; however partial evacuation - lowering pressure to about 1/2 or more might be sustainable.
Maybe he's shooting the vehicles in opposite directions at the same time - in separate but linked tubes, so the pressure/vacuum is a wash.

You can get ping-pong balls to >Mach2 with about -2 atmospheres. We tried it...
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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by arkmundi » Jul 16 2013 3:51am

I vote for the open source manufacturing approach...

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Punx0r » Jul 16 2013 2:29pm

Looks cool 8)

2 atm in the pressure chamber?

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by grindz145 » Jul 16 2013 4:12pm

TylerDurden wrote: Maybe he's shooting the vehicles in opposite directions at the same time - in separate but linked tubes, so the pressure/vacuum is a wash.

That's exactly what I was thinking too, the "loop" is what they're going for there. I'm looking forward to Aug 12. An early birthday present for me :)

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by arkmundi » Jul 17 2013 11:37am

I think they've already finalized their draft proposal and are just considering the "intellectual property" implications. Without patent, its open season for others to take advantage. Musk strikes me as someone who is looking to do good, but in a smart way. So its probably delayed until August for his team of lawyers to get their ducks lined up. They'd do best to follow the lead of the Apache Foundation, where its open-source, but all legal protections in play for the community.

FYI, every state, including my own, the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts would do well to advance a proposal like Musk is in California. Here, I'd love to see two lanes of the central turnpike made into a hyperloop, so travelers could get from Boston to the state line with New York. If every state did the same, we'd have a replacement to the National Highway system.

It would be awesomely cool, that instead of being buried underground, a clear plastic tube was placed on the surface of all major highways. Car & truck lanes could be kept open, but the view out the window would be of hyperloop travelers being wisked along at upwards 1400mph, so fast they'd be a blur. Talk about an incentive to just give up on the car.

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Re: Elon Musk's - Hyperloop

Post by Kingfish » Aug 08 2013 9:38am

Hype over the Hyperloop accelerates as Elon Musk's 'big reveal' nears

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Billionaire Elon Musk says he won't reveal his "alpha" version of the Hyperloop concept for high-speed travel until Aug. 12, but a couple of weeks ago, he said a plan laid out by John Gardi is the "closest I've seen anyone guess so far." This graphic by Brent Couchman is based on Gardi's "guess." For a larger version, go to http://bit.ly/hyper-graphic
Transportation policy experts are as anxious as anyone else to get the details about brainy billionaire Elon Musk's "Hyperloop" high-speed transit concept on Monday. But their enthusiasm is tempered by the fiscal and political realities that have held back high-speed rail and other transportation innovation for 50 years.

Musk, who heads the SpaceX rocket venture as well as the Tesla electric-car company, says what he has in mind isn't a rail system. He calls the Hyperloop a "fifth mode" of transportation, distinct from planes, trains, automobiles and boats.

"It would work better than a high-speed rail, or a plane, between the right city pairs, like San Francisco and L.A., or New York-Boston," he told CNBC. A trip from S.F. to L.A. would take about a half-hour, which suggests an average speed in excess of 600 mph (900 kilometers per hour). Musk guessed that the system could be built for a tenth of the cost-per-mile associated with California's proposed $68 billion high-speed rail system, which won't be nearly as high speed as Japan's. During May's D11 Conference, he said the Hyperloop would be a "cross between a Concorde, a rail gun and an air hockey table."

Such grand projects have foundered in the United States, due to the expense of building new infrastructure and negotiating the rights of way, particularly in the country's urban centers. If America still relies on a rail transportation system that has more in common with the 19th century than the 21st century, it's not because the technology has been lacking. High-speed rail travel, in the form of Japan's Shinkansen system and France's TGV network, is closing in on its 50th anniversary.

Emil Frankel, a former transportation official who is now a visiting scholar at the Bipartisan Policy Center, says the vision of criss-crossing America with bullet trains just isn't realistic anymore.


"I just can't imagine that in a time when we have these huge annual deficits," he told NBC News. "It seems far better to make improvements in our existing systems. One would like our trains to travel faster than they did in the 19th century, and many of them don't."

<snip>
See the title link for the full article.

I like the concept of Acceleration/Deceleration; there will be some losses - though it's an interesting concept. Like to see a prototype come to fruition -> Inner City to Airport kinda of demonstration.

There will still be infrastructure costs, such as elevated runs, tunnels, cut & cover, ground-level that to me will equate to nearly the same base costs + some sort of transparent tube at the most exotic level.

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The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
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