Chevy Spark EV

Joined
Jun 13, 2010
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Location
Carlow, Ireland
I must say I can't wait to get a spin in one with 400 lbs of torque, it's not much to look at but it's definitely better than the Leaf.

0-60 7.5 seconds compared to an average diesel hatch in Europe 11-14 seconds (yep 9 USD per Gallon does that)

The battery has thermal management for starters.

The difference in range @20 Deg C might not be huge between the two but in winter the Spark will trash the Leaf.

Can charge for free with public chargers. (for now)

I think it's very clever the way they could fit the battery in the Spark considering it's the same as the petrol version.

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Has anyone got a spin in one yet ?

It's supposed to be coming to teh E.U in 2014 I hope Ireland is on the list !

One thing that really pissed me off is the way the U.S and E.U decided to drop CHAdeMO in favour of SAE, that means there are 0 SAE chargers here yet and probably most of the world compared to many thousand CHAdeMO. This I just can't believe was allowed to happen.

So that means if I were to buy an E.U/U.S ev I would have to wait all over again for a QC rollout !
 
Hillhater said:
o00scorpion00o said:
0-60 7.5 seconds compared to an average diesel hatch in Europe 11-14 seconds !

?? They must fit a LOT of extra's on those European models..
..the Golf and Focus Diesel hatch's down here are in the 8 sec bracket for 0-60 ! :wink:

Lol extras? what are they ? usually we get stripped of goodies to keep the cost down.

I bet down there you're not driving slow 90 hp diesels ? :(

Actually 70-80 hp diesels are common as well as 1.0L 60 hp petrols.

A diesel DSG automatic Golf 105 hp costs 29,675 Euro's so called high spec here and 200 a year car tax. 10.7 seconds 0-62 mph.

The 2.0L 150 hp diesel costs 32,000 Euro's 9 second 0-62 mph

The 1.4 140 hp petrol 8.4 second 0-62 costs 29,490 Euro's

A golf 2.0L Petrol 220 hp costs 37,220 Euro's
 
What do people think about the 400 lb torque claim ?

Seemingly the motor has a max rpm of 2000 so does that mean all the torque would be low down say 0-30 mph then falls off after that ?

What about Current producing the torque, or does it depend on torque and reducer ?

Obviously with an electric bike a 20" wheel will provide more torque than a 26 inch for the same current, motor etc.
 
Seems like consumer reviews are good from the owners in Cali and Oregon (huge fun factor). We are supposed to get them in Seattle before the end of the year and I plan on leasing one for the lady. $999 down and $200/month is what they are currently going for, it's nice that the dealer takes care of the usa federal tax credit on a lease unlike buying it outright. I'm only concerned with the market value after the lease, it would be nice to have some equity in it. Both GM and Tesla (model e) are saying they will have a $30k car with a 200 mile range by 2016, which would be the end of my lease terms, hopefully that won’t reduce the market value of the Spark (but I'm sure it will).

I work for the city and we have a fleet of both Prius and Leaf. The Prius was like driving a sack of potatoes whereas the leaf was much more drivable. I don't see myself getting a leaf though, electric cars should be fun. I hope the Spark can help with that as I can't afford a Tesla.

But I'm thinking to myself as this trend continues to grow, how can I make this my work (i'm tired of the office, ya hear me)? Are EV salesmen just as sleazy as other car salesmen?
 
Yeah the spark should be a lot of fun much more than Zoe and I think it would have a better battery too, Renault typically stick 60-80 hp engines in their cars, I know the Zoe will have a decent bit of torque but it's heavy and 12.5 seconds 0-100 kph isn't fun.

Zoe looks good though and has the 3-44 kw charger V 3kw for the Spark though with ccs charging in 20 mins v 30 for the Leaf.

The boot in the spark is tiny.

I hear a lot of surprised people reporting a good 80-90 miles @100 kph in the Spark, winter range ? who knows it's got a heated battery but no heat pump v heat pump and no heated battery in the Leaf/Zoe.

200 a month lease deal is mega cheap ? holy crap, is there a balloon payment at the end ?
 
I almost purchased the Spark (non-electric), but ended up going w/ a Prius C hybrid.
Since I have nowhere to charge, a Spark EV wasn't a great option for me. (If Chevy made a hybrid Spark, it would have been a harder decision)

Anyhow, Very excited about the Chevy Spark EV.
... just wish I had a convenient way to charge one.
 
Are there no fast chargers near you ? though the ccs chargers might not be available yet.

I know our electric company say they will have chargers with 44 kw a/c, Chademo and ccs. ccs is capable of up to 140 kw CHAdeMo I think 60 max.

I can't wait for a drive in the Spark, I wonder if they will sell it here next year ?
 
o00scorpion00o said:
What do people think about the 400 lb torque claim ?

Seemingly the motor has a max rpm of 2000 so does that mean all the torque would be low down say 0-30 mph then falls off after that ?

What about Current producing the torque, or does it depend on torque and reducer ?

Obviously with an electric bike a 20" wheel will provide more torque than a 26 inch for the same current, motor etc.

400lb-ft of instant peak torque for an electric is believable, but I feel that a peak HP number might be more telling in this case.
 
cal3thousand said:
o00scorpion00o said:
What do people think about the 400 lb torque claim ?

Seemingly the motor has a max rpm of 2000 so does that mean all the torque would be low down say 0-30 mph then falls off after that ?

What about Current producing the torque, or does it depend on torque and reducer ?

Obviously with an electric bike a 20" wheel will provide more torque than a 26 inch for the same current, motor etc.

400lb-ft of instant peak torque for an electric is believable, but I feel that a peak HP number might be more telling in this case.

7.5 Seconds 0-60 would be good enough for me. It would be the fastest car I ever owned.
 
Drove a Nissan Leaf today.... yeah, not too exciting. A little faster than the Prius maybe, but not much.

You can tell that they programmed the motor controls to really dole out the power at certain times, but restrict it during others. If you roll along with a low throttle level for a while and mash it, then you get some decent power, but the power isn't instantaneous. If you just hold the throttle down, it will give you a little blast of power for a bit and then dial it down.

I didn't like that about the car.

I want something that can blow by a good fraction of gas cars... and am curious about the Spark; it might just be the kind of car that i want.

If you test drive one, lemme know how it goes!
 
That's disappointing Nep. I Didn't drive the 2013 model. I take it then you drove the Gen I ? I was impressed with the drive in Gen I, I was way faster than the Prius off the line. I really liked the hard acceleration without the noise of the prius.

It's not unusual for Nissan/Renault to stick underpowered engines into cars, same goes for VW/ PSA etc.

Most car makers want to charge a premium for performance, Nissan wanted people to be impressed with the Leaf for being the 1st Gen mass produced affordable EV. Now it's a shame if they turned it into another boring eco box.

The Spark has the same 7.5 second 0-100 kph as the VW Golf GTD Diesel 180hp. :mrgreen:

The Golf GTD version starts at a whopping 38,600 Euro's , that's 52,195 USD. That's Irish price with 23% tax and 18 % registration tax direct to the Government.

The Spark starts at 27,495 USD = 20,333 Euro's add 23% vat =25,009 Euro's or 33,187 USD - Government grand of 5000 Euro's becomes 20,000 Euro's or 27,000 USD.

So the Spark if to be believed 0-100 kph of 7.5 seconds ? is true then that means Golf performance for 20,000 Euro's compared to 38,600 Euro's !!!

I just hope the American tradition of big power continues in electric vehicles because there won't be any need to stick underpowered 60 hp engined into cars any more because of massive fuel taxes.

The Golf EV will be much more expensive and have a 10-10.5 second 0-100 kph and the Leaf 2013 about 11-11.5 seconds and the Zoe 14 seconds. The only good thing about Zoe is the on board 3kw-44kw charger but i just could not drive a car that gets 0-100 kph in 14 seconds.

The Spark is small with a tiny boot or trunk as ye call it in the U.S. I don't know if I could live with it's overall small size but it will surely be the most exciting ev coming for sure. It's supposed to have a decent 80-90 miles at 100 kph too. I hope winter range will be better than the leaf, while it's got a heated battery it has an inefficient heater.

It can fast charge in 20 mins too but there won't be any SAE ccs chargers any time soon. It would be great of there was a ccs-CHAdeMo converter.
 
I just leased one of these last night. I haven't driven it except back from the dealer as it was pretty discharged when we took delivery. Perky little thing. Not as nice as our Honda Fit and the displays are way too Nintendo, but the universe wanted me to have one and who am I to resist. With the incentives and the cost savings over fueling and maintaining the 20 yr old Honda Accord it is replacing I think I'm spending exactly no money to drive a new electric car for the next three years. I leased because:
a) in three years electric cars will be even better
b) $2k down, $225 month including everything hard to resist, since we get $2500 from CA, $500 from PG&E for the level 2 charger, and $1000 for scrapping our old car. Plus we save about $75 per month using electricity instead of gas.

This is the first "American" car in our extended family for 40 years. We are all still a little gun-shy after the Citation X-11 and the Vega we had in the 70's, not to mention my Corvair (nice driver though, when it didn't need major work). At least with a lease I can walk away after three years if it doesn't work out. but I'm really hoping GM have finally figured out how to make decent cars.
 
I drove a friends Spark. I'm impressed. It's no Tesla, but it still delivered a great driving experience. I enjoyed driving it more than the new Corvette I also recently test drove.

Having a transmission just kinda blows it for me in a vehicle at this point. If companies don't appreciate how much better the experience of driving a vehicle that is always in the right gear, they are going to be quickly buried by the new waves of EVs (like the spark).
 
The bright sparks at GM decided not to sell the spark EV in Europe, I'd love to know the reason behind it ?

I really feel the future for electric cars is starting to look grim, there is absolutely no technological breakthroughs in battery development on the horizon, and I doubt Leaf II in 2017 will have much increase in kwh, perhaps 30 kwh will be the max. I presume cost and weight are two big considerations, also size.

The charging situation is not looking good either with the introduction of the new ccs standard, it means fast chargers will have to have fast a/c, CHAdeMo and ccs, it's a nightmare.

We need much more chargers, and the car makers have a lot of money to start donating chargers.

The other problem is the car makers themselves, they do not want to invest in electrics because they can't make money. They are making huge profits from ice cars.

Why would GM not sell the spark ev in Europe ? surely it's better to sell some than 0 ?

Then you have the likes of the German carmakers, Audi can't be bothered to make an EV at all, only plug in, BMW with their 21 or so kwh is laughable to say the least and then their I8 not a very good car imo.

Then the Volkswagen are way behind Nissan and are releasing a car with only 24 kwh again, they all follow Nissan.

I'm beginning to think that if Nissan had a 40 kwh in the Leaf then others would follow.

Mercedes had to use tesla drive trains and batteries.

Seriously, are Tesla the only ones that can make a decent size battery pack ? With 3 fires now and stock tumbling I think they are in for serious challenges down the road.

Fires do not go down well in the eyes of the public, despite it being a safe car the insurance premiums will rocket on the Model S because a crash will most likely mean a fire and total destruction of the vehicle.

I honestly thought batteries would have improved since I started getting into ebikes, but even for e-bikers all that's available ready made are LiFeP04 packs or NMC low C shorter life packs. Even Ping still charges the same for his LiFeP04 packs last time I checked.

I really think a battery breakthrough is needed fast !
 
What on earth makes you say no new battery tech on the horizon?

Have you missed that everyday some new startup trying to lure VC money releases a press release about how thry have the next gen 10x range increasing solution for batteries just around the corner?

Simply playing the odds, there will be one of them that isnt just scamming VC's and actually has something that works.

Battery tech is developing crazy fast right now because there is real demand starting to form for it now finally. :)

I think before 2020 we will have EV cells > 300Wh/kg (just my own wild guess), and it's going to make cars like the LEAF and Spark into cheap 200mile range wide consumer base satisfying EVs.

Remember, lots if future battery tech is not only about storage of more energy in a smaller box, but also about $/Wh, and we're seeing every metric improve right now. Safety goes up, energy/power density goes up, cost comes down. Lots of winning. :)
 
liveforphysics said:
What on earth makes you say no new battery tech on the horizon?

Have you missed that everyday some new startup trying to lure VC money releases a press release about how thry have the next gen 10x range increasing solution for batteries just around the corner?

Simply playing the odds, there will be one of them that isnt just scamming VC's and actually has something that works.

Battery tech is developing crazy fast right now because there is real demand starting to form for it now finally. :)

I think before 2020 we will have EV cells > 300Wh/kg (just my own wild guess), and it's going to make cars like the LEAF and Spark into cheap 200mile range wide consumer base satisfying EVs.

Remember, lots if future battery tech is not only about storage of more energy in a smaller box, but also about $/Wh, and we're seeing every metric improve right now. Safety goes up, energy/power density goes up, cost comes down. Lots of winning. :)

Yes there is promising battery tech promised, but when it's actually in a car with a real 200 miles range then I'll get excited.

There is also the matter of recharge, unless you can recharge a real 150-250 miles in a maximum of 10 mins there will still be vast amounts of people that won't buy them because as long as they can afford a ice car then long recharge times will always be an inconvenience.

ice cars are still affordable and also fuel and people are more than willing to pay for the privilege of heat in winter, range and short refuel times. To most people there is simply 0 advantage of an electric car, and cheap running is a small advantage compared to range and refuel times, even here in Ireland where there is a super tax on fuel and a super tax on new cars most new car sales are ice cars, despite there being 5,000 euro's grant and no registration tax, and the much cheaper running costs of electrics, it's still not enough to persuade people to change.

Then what happens when the battery wears out ? nissan say 15% loss is acceptable for the technology, that may be but it isn't acceptable for a modern vehicle after only 70-80K miles. They need to offer money for your old pack towards a new pack.
 
There does seem to be a dearth of EV's available in the UK (and Europe too). If you could lease one for ~£200/mo that would be amazing, but I'm not sure there's anything like that available.

An article I was reading the other day reckoned 2020-2025 before li-ion halved in cost per Wh, and that's what it would take to make EVs price compatible with ICEs.

Looking at the UK Govt Department of Energy forecasts, they're precting petroleum fuel costs to rise ~4% over the next five years, but around 15% increase in the cost of electricity.

That probably won't be a deal breaker, but it will slightly widen the gap if it comes to pass.
 
o00scorpion00o said:
Yes there is promising battery tech promised, but when it's actually in a car with a real 200 miles range then I'll get excited.

There is also the matter of recharge, unless you can recharge a real 150-250 miles in a maximum of 10 mins there will still be vast amounts of people that won't buy them because as long as they can afford a ice car then long recharge times will always be an inconvenience.

ice cars are still affordable and also fuel and people are more than willing to pay for the privilege of heat in winter, range and short refuel times. To most people there is simply 0 advantage of an electric car, and cheap running is a small advantage compared to range and refuel times, even here in Ireland where there is a super tax on fuel and a super tax on new cars most new car sales are ice cars, despite there being 5,000 euro's grant and no registration tax, and the much cheaper running costs of electrics, it's still not enough to persuade people to change.

Then what happens when the battery wears out ? nissan say 15% loss is acceptable for the technology, that may be but it isn't acceptable for a modern vehicle after only 70-80K miles. They need to offer money for your old pack towards a new pack.

Ireland and all other islands should have more Tesla's than anyone. I was really sad to see a while back only 1 reservation for a Model S in all off Ireland. Elon could have set you guys up to drive for free forever in 1 month with permits expedited. California is 6 times the size of Ireland. You will be more than covered when you get your heads out of your asses.

https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=295135

Now I know why. Who controls the news in Ireland?

google search results for Model S news:

#1 newspaper in San Francisco
site:sfgate.com tesla "model s"
About 12,400 results

#1 newspaper in Ireland
site:www.independent.ie tesla "model s"
6 results

'Irish Independent' wins seven prizes including scoop of the year at National Newspaper Awards hahahHAHAHAHAAHHA
 
The sad reality is, a production EV is not a practical proposition unless you live in certain areas of the USA...mostly California Urban areas.
Else ware in the world there are either NO EV's available, OR they are financially prohibitive , and even if you have the $$$'s , you will struggle to find charging stations to make practical use of it.
Hell, if you could lease a Spark or a Leaf for anything less than $400 month.. every one in western Europe would be queuing up ! ..despite having no charger infrastructure. !
 
flathill said:
o00scorpion00o said:
Yes there is promising battery tech promised, but when it's actually in a car with a real 200 miles range then I'll get excited.

There is also the matter of recharge, unless you can recharge a real 150-250 miles in a maximum of 10 mins there will still be vast amounts of people that won't buy them because as long as they can afford a ice car then long recharge times will always be an inconvenience.

ice cars are still affordable and also fuel and people are more than willing to pay for the privilege of heat in winter, range and short refuel times. To most people there is simply 0 advantage of an electric car, and cheap running is a small advantage compared to range and refuel times, even here in Ireland where there is a super tax on fuel and a super tax on new cars most new car sales are ice cars, despite there being 5,000 euro's grant and no registration tax, and the much cheaper running costs of electrics, it's still not enough to persuade people to change.

Then what happens when the battery wears out ? nissan say 15% loss is acceptable for the technology, that may be but it isn't acceptable for a modern vehicle after only 70-80K miles. They need to offer money for your old pack towards a new pack.

Ireland and all other islands should have more Tesla's than anyone. I was really sad to see a while back only 1 reservation for a Model S in all off Ireland. Elon could have set you guys up to drive for free forever in 1 month with permits expedited. California is 6 times the size of Ireland. You will be more than covered when you get your heads out of your asses.

https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=295135

Now I know why. Who controls the news in Ireland?

google search results for Model S news:

#1 newspaper in San Francisco
site:sfgate.com tesla "model s"
About 12,400 results

#1 newspaper in Ireland
site:www.independent.ie tesla "model s"
6 results

'Irish Independent' wins seven prizes including scoop of the year at National Newspaper Awards hahahHAHAHAHAAHHA

Ireland is a small island with a hell of a lot less wealthy people who can afford to spend 70,000 Euro's on a Model S.

Elon Musk was here last week at the web summit in Dublin and after he went clubbing in the local clubs, he didn't however say he was planning a supercharger network here.

No doubt he was thinking of how he could set up a company here and save billions by not paying tax.
 
Hillhater said:
The sad reality is, a production EV is not a practical proposition unless you live in certain areas of the USA...mostly California Urban areas.
Else ware in the world there are either NO EV's available, OR they are financially prohibitive , and even if you have the $$$'s , you will struggle to find charging stations to make practical use of it.
Hell, if you could lease a Spark or a Leaf for anything less than $400 month.. every one in western Europe would be queuing up ! ..despite having no charger infrastructure. !

We don't have a particularly bad quick charge network, people are just not willing to spend the money on a limited range vehicle.

I'd be able to drive an 80-100 mile daily commute with the qc network, probably only need a 10 min charge to get me home on a 84 mile commute, it is inconvenient, and most people are not willing to do it daily as it adds to an already long commute. This is where Governments need to address the work place charging and only allow those to charge that absolutely need to charge.

I can't afford a new leaf at the moment. And apart from running costs, there is depreciation to think about and the Leaf depreciates like a stone. So fuel isn't just a concern, it's depreciation and interest to think about.

Then there is the issue of battery longevity, I would most likely wait until the Leaf becomes 8-10 K 2nd hand, but what will I do with a 50 mile range car or less ? nissan won't give me a new battery and they think it's acceptable to think they can repair it to 75% capacity and no more.
 
o00scorpion00o said:
Yes there is promising battery tech promised, but when it's actually in a car with a real 200 miles range then I'll get excited.

This is precisely the attitude that ensures 200mile range cheap EV's doesn't happen.

o00scorpion00o said:
it's still not enough to persuade people to change.

If you haven't tried a Tesla model S yet, I can see why you would think it needs to make some type of silly financial justification to go EV.

It's simply a better driving experience. I've driven a Rolls Royce, I've driven a Bentley, I've driven a Ferrari 360 Modena, all felt like driving a steaming pile of shit compared to driving a Model S. Gasoline car's are at a hopeless disadvantage to try to match the driving experience electric offers. The people who don't recognize that are simply the group who hasn't experienced what an EV experience can offer (like the Model S).

I don't think I've even had a trip in the last 6 months that was over ~60miles at a time in the car. Even a LEAF with a worn out pack would suit my driving needs fine, and I don't think I'm some rare exception.
 
liveforphysics said:
If you haven't tried a Tesla model S yet, I can see why you would think it needs to make some type of silly financial justification to go EV.

It's simply a better driving experience. I've driven a Rolls Royce, I've driven a Bentley, I've driven a Ferrari 360 Modena, all felt like driving a steaming pile of shit compared to driving a Model S. Gasoline car's are at a hopeless disadvantage to try to match the driving experience electric offers. The people who don't recognize that are simply the group who hasn't experienced what an EV experience can offer (like the Model S).

I don't think I've even had a trip in the last 6 months that was over ~60miles at a time in the car. Even a LEAF with a worn out pack would suit my driving needs fine, and I don't think I'm some rare exception.

I agree with some of what you say about the driving experience but to a lot of people who drive premium German cars, the drive is the least some of them care about.

It's all about the image and I doubt tesla will have that image for a long time, maybe they never will. But I agree, I'd rather have a model S any day over any ice car.

To lots of people of premium cars their ice does just fine and the fuel consumption or fuel costs will never be a concern to them.

While I agree a 50 mile Leaf might be enough for a lot of people it is on the low side and it could probably replace our 13 year old honda crv but at 50 miles range it just couldn't replace the prius.

Range must get to at least a real 200 miles at 60-70 mph, along with fast recharge times.

Most people car about the times when the ev will not reach the destination a couple of times a year, this is a major concern and won't go away.

Apart from the range and recharge issues there needs to be some kind of phasing out of ice cars because they most likely will not be replaced in a hurry even if electric cars can do 200 miles and recharge in 5-10 mins.

There are a lot of issues facing electrics and one of them being the car makers don't want anything to do with them as they make far too much money on ice cars.
 
liveforphysics said:
o00scorpion00o said:
it's still not enough to persuade people to change.

If you haven't tried a Tesla model S yet, I can see why you would think it needs to make some type of silly financial justification to go EV. ...
...... Even a LEAF with a worn out pack would suit my driving needs fine, and I don't think I'm some rare exception.

So why not get one then Luke ?
It seems you could get a new EV for <$250 month ??
 
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