how hard can it be to not run over large objects?

maybe they need a computer to drive the car if people don't see the need to avoid running over large objects in the roadway. like they would need to use their fingers for driving instead of texting.

pesky bicyclists, get outa the way, oops, now look what you did!! went and got blood all over my new car!!

March 28, 2014, 8:44 a.m. EDT
Tesla to install new battery shields on Model S
Musk: Shields will address public misperception about electric-vehicle safety

By Mike Ramsey
Tesla Motors Inc. said it would add titanium shielding and an aluminum deflector plate to the underbody of its Model S luxury electric car to prevent possible fires that could be caused by running over objects.

The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company has already begun installing the shielding on new vehicles and will retroactively install the shielding on existing cars when customers bring them in. The move comes as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has been investigating whether Tesla’s vehicles have a safety defect after two cars caught fire in the span of five weeks late last year. The agency hasn’t disclosed the results of its investigation.

“Underbody shields are not needed for a high level of safety,” Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk said in a statement. “However, there is significant value to minimizing owner inconvenience in the event of an impact and addressing any lingering public misperception about electric vehicle safety.”

Musk had previously said the company didn’t need to add shielding or recall the vehicle. Tesla already created a software change that raised the vehicle clearance at high speeds and put a fire warranty on all vehicles to address concerns.

In the two U.S. cases last year, both drivers ran over a hard object that pierced the aluminum plate that protects the large battery underneath the car, causing it to catch fire. Neither occupant was injured, but the cars were destroyed by the flames.

article_quoted_by_dnmun said:

“Underbody shields are not needed for a high level of safety,” Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk said in a statement. “However, there is significant value to minimizing owner inconvenience in the event of an impact and addressing any lingering public misperception about electric vehicle safety.”

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As for running over things, stuff happens. A big problem there is how closely people follow each other. I find Elon's statement to be eloquent.

From my experience, it's not that hard to run over a large object.

Especially if said object is a SLA car battery that fell off the back of a recycler truck and slid across the lane and smack dead into your intercooler

cal3thousand said:

From my experience, it's not that hard to run over a large object.

Especially if said object is a SLA car battery that fell off the back of a recycler truck and slid across the lane and smack dead into your intercooler

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i agree. it is really not hard at all and there are no legal consequences either.

just find a street used by bicyclists and start texting from one end to the other. there are all these moving large objects in the road so it is hard to avoid running over them.

i have watched people run over cats trying to get across the road, never even put on the brake or tried to drive around it, just run right over it and never even slow down. that's why they don't stop when they run over bicyclists. not their problem anymore, it is outa the way. just gotta wash the car again.

The Tesla has an incredible safety record...more gasoline cars catch on fire from a crash percentage-wise, than Teslas, but...it's the Tesla that has to be upgraded?

This is just the NON-Tesla car industry trying to slow them down a little.

dnmun said:

cal3thousand said:

From my experience, it's not that hard to run over a large object.

Especially if said object is a SLA car battery that fell off the back of a recycler truck and slid across the lane and smack dead into your intercooler

Click to expand...

i agree. it is really not hard at all and there are no legal consequences either.

just find a street used by bicyclists and start texting from one end to the other. there are all these moving large objects in the road so it is hard to avoid running over them.

i have watched people run over cats trying to get across the road, never even put on the brake or tried to drive around it, just run right over it and never even slow down. that's why they don't stop when they run over bicyclists. not their problem anymore, it is outa the way. just gotta wash the car again.

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That's the part that is the major issue. We (as bicyclists) are seen as obstacles on their quest for transportation

dnmun said:

i agree. it is really not hard at all and there are no legal consequences either.

just find a street used by bicyclists and start texting from one end to the other. there are all these moving large objects in the road so it is hard to avoid running over them.

i have watched people run over cats trying to get across the road, never even put on the brake or tried to drive around it, just run right over it and never even slow down. that's why they don't stop when they run over bicyclists. not their problem anymore, it is outa the way. just gotta wash the car again.

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Its always a bummer when something's killed.

As was pointed out in my physics class, sometimes its better to keep going straight than to try an evasive manuver or slam on the brakes when confronted with objects in the road. Even with animals, sometimes they freeze and squat allowing you to pass above them. I've seen instances where passing over seemed like a better choice after the car dipped on braking and that seemed to be the inch of clearance that the animal needed.

Its not all cut and dried and there are many circumstances to be considered. Having said that, keeping a clear distance from the vehicle in front always seems to help. It also helps when the vehicle behind has an adequate distance.

i think people do not even watch as they are driving. just robots trained to stay in their lane. there is really no consequence in this country for running over bicyclists. people get arrested 20 times for driving drunk. who cares.

they even run over people walking on the sidewalk, you don't have to be in the street. one guy here ran over a little girl playing in her front yard. it just takes so long to put on the brakes so why even try like gogo just said. why even try to stop if you know the laws of physics say you can't. people in bicyclist killing machines get a free ride. if they miss the bicyclist with the first longneck, then they try even harder on the second or third beer.

cal3thousand said:

That's the part that is the major issue. We (as bicyclists) are seen as obstacles on their quest for transportation

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It certainly is for us!

The County DA where I live has ok'd the use of deadly force against people who use their vehicles to threaten assault with a deadly weapon. If you have the opportunity tell them they are under arrest and that they should immediately turn off their vehicle and wait for police, you should. But, if they seem like they will 'get away' to continue to endanger you or others, you should shoot to kill immediately.

I had a large chunk of metal drop off a recycler's trailer in front of me in Phoenix and thankfully I used my knowlege of physics to keep any collisions from happening between vehicles. Had I tried to stop quickly or evade sideways, there would have been. Like I said, its not always cut and dried, and there are usually many factors to consider.

Now, of course you should be in control of your vehicle and aware of traffic and when vulnerable road users are involved due caution and action exercised. I agree with you, dnmum, that attitudes in the USA need reforming.

dnmun said:

cal3thousand said:

From my experience, it's not that hard to run over a large object.

Especially if said object is a SLA car battery that fell off the back of a recycler truck and slid across the lane and smack dead into your intercooler

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i agree. it is really not hard at all and there are no legal consequences either.

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Not sure if you mean illegal to run over debris, or illegal to drop it from your vehicle? An insecure load is an offence here.

Regarding the cat, you're assuming the driver saw/noticed anything... Sadly, I've been a few close calls (car on car) where the driver who almost caused a huge crash was completely oblivious. You're sat sideways across the road in a cloud of tyre smoke, just an unobserved image in their rearview mirror. No wonder people don't "see" motorcycles or bicycles.

Regarding the incidents of Tesla fires after crashes, is that based on comparable and significant data? Tesla haven't made many cars compared to most manufacturers.

The highway code in the uk forbids emergency stops for animals. If a dog steps out, you flatten it. You are guided not to take evasive action as it may endanger other road users. Only the dog owner is at fault and should be made to pay for the damage. Generally they feel like victims though, and nobody wants to deal with that. Dog owners are stereotypically possessive and dogs can be like children to them. Just drive on if you can, or call the police if you can't.

I had one of them things that pins tracks to the sleepers kicked out the verge at me. Could of stopped had it dropped off a vehicle, Or moved if there was a space free by my side. However my braking distance was not enough for an almost stationary object appearing on a 70mph carriageway. You can't always stop.

This new item is just marketing. It is likely as tough as baking foil, but sounds reassuring.

it is nauseating to read all this stuff about how you cannot stop or avoid running over animals or people in the roadway. if you cannot avoid objects in the roadway even when driving 70 mph then you need to not drive.

if you are going faster than you can drive you need to slow down. amazing that people cannot drive around objects in the roadway. i always wondered why people do it and now i realize they are trained to not avoid objects in the roadway. i would never have thought this was the case. i remember when i was 14 years old and learning to drive and how my dad taught me to be able to drive off the roadway under control and then recover and return to the roadway.

I was driving along at night, 30 mph, and I suddenly saw something very large looming towards me from the right (it had no lights, of course). I jammed on the brakes, but wasn't quite able to stop before I hit the cow, which rolled over my bonnet, back on the road, then ran away.

This was closely followed by the farmer.

He'd opened the field gate, a gate that led directly on to the road I was on. The cow, not under his control at all, just ran into the road.
I was shaken but not hurt, the cow wasn't injured (or at least it was well enough to run away), but the car was considerably dented.

Sometimes it's very hard not to run over a large object, when the large object wasn't there until the last moment.

dnmun said:

it is nauseating to read all this stuff about how you cannot stop or avoid running over animals or people in the roadway. if you cannot avoid objects in the roadway even when driving 70 mph then you need to not drive.

if you are going faster than you can drive you need to slow down. amazing that people cannot drive around objects in the roadway. i always wondered why people do it and now i realize they are trained to not avoid objects in the roadway. i would never have thought this was the case. i remember when i was 14 years old and learning to drive and how my dad taught me to be able to drive off the roadway under control and then recover and return to the roadway.

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Your post wreaks of somebody that don't drive but thinks they can.

Braking distance at 70mph is 100meters, but no 100meter gap is safe from 3 other cars jumping in it. Can you attain 70mph while somehow keeping 100meters ahead of you reserved?

*reeks

As far as I can determine there is no mention in the Highway Code about swerving (or not) for animals. Much less a rule stating exactly which animals it is ok to hit and which it's not.

The longer, and more sensible, answer is that it can be considered careless or dangerous driving *depending on the circumstances*. The ideas is (apparently) that an emergency stop or a panic swerve is an maneouvere performed without first checking what is going on around you. That's an acceptable risk if your or someone elses life is in immediate danger, but no acceptable if the only thing at risk is a mouse in the road.

Therefore, you may brake hard or swerve to avoid a mouse as long as it is a controlled maneouvere and you have checked around you to make sure you won't hit an on-coming car, crossing pedestrian or the car behind won't run into the back of you.

Most people will take evasive action for animals and this is ok. What's not ok is the extreme example of somone panic swerving to avoid a car, loosing control and wiping out a bus stop full of children.

Debris in the carriageway is a good question. Yes, we should always drive at a speed where we can stop in the distance we know to be clear but in reality this can be difficult especially at night where an object may be well camouflaged against the roadsurface. Better drivers will tend to hit fewer "unexpected" items or potholes in the road.

x

Punx0r said:

*reeks

As far as I can determine there is no mention in the Highway Code about swerving (or not) for animals. Much less a rule stating exactly which animals it is ok to hit and which it's not.

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In California not only are you required to try to avoid hitting an animal, but you're required to at least try to find the owner if you hit one.

A woman I went to school with swerved to avoid a dog in the road, but wound up in front of an oncoming tour bus. It was the last thing she ever did. The bus had no way of avoiding her.

Meanwhile I've happened to notice that it seems as though the squrriels around here actully TRY to get in front of cars, as though they don't understand what they're getting themselves into. They run across the street suddenly when there are cars coming both ways, making in front of the car on the opposite side then stopping. The last thing they ever do.

I have relatives in areas with deer, which you will periodically hit if you live there. They literally run from safety at the side of the road to get in front of you. I was in the car when the driver took it for granted that one was running at a diagonal but wouldn't make it in front of here - It head butted the side. She didn't hit a deer, a deer hit HER. Might not have been the last thing it did, it sure ran away afterwards.

How do you avoid something that's not trying to avoid you?

dnmun said:

it is nauseating to read all this stuff about how you cannot stop or avoid running over animals or people in the roadway. if you cannot avoid objects in the roadway even when driving 70 mph then you need to not drive.

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What he said. If you are driving too fast to react safely to things that appear in your path, you're simply driving too fast, or not paying attention to the task at hand. Just because driving unsafely is pervasive does not make it OK.

I hope I live to see car-free central city areas, and blanket 20mph speed limits for cars elsewhere within city limits. We need to take our lives and our cities back from the murder machines.

The OP was referring to Tesla's re enforcing the battery pack to prevent road debris damage.... not really related to city driving !
Can all the wise men of cycling here say they have never run over a pot hole or broken glass bottle that would have been better avoided ?
I learned the hard way, that its better not to try to avoid a minor accident, as the avoidance could result in a worse result..!!
....in a car or on a bike,.... and inanimate debris on the road is always a lesser risk than the many possible outcomes resulting from unplanned avoidance maneuvers.

you're required to at least try to find the owner if you hit one

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Dogs are considered property, even if they are illegally running off a leash and outside a fenced yard. Cats...on the other hand...even with a collar and a license, well, it is assumed that they are a free-range animal, and if you hit one, most places do not legally require you to try to find the owner.

I make a point to always own vehicle that has 8" of ground clearance and big brakes. 8" clears just about everthing you are going to hit, and can traverse curbs in emergency situations while still providing some decent handling.

At only 4 or so inches a tesla rides at, you are just about gauranteed to bottom on anything you hit sadly. But thats where you get that crazy rollover angle and super flat handing. I think that they could afford another inch or so IMHO.

Tesla simply realizes that shit happens. You can be following at a safe distance for normal driving, and still hit shit because it fell off the truck in front of you, or you just never had time to see it till the vehicle ahead ran over it also. And of course, harder to see such things at night till you are closer to them.

I've driven over ladders, pallets, and loose 2x4's. I've had very near misses of crap spit out of the wheels in the lane next to me, so suddenly a tire, a 2x4 or what have you is bouncing into your lane. I'm not that dumb, that I'm going to jerk the wheel at 75 mph. That's how you go over the barriers upside down. Hell yeah you swerve, but not too fast or too far for that speed.

If you are driving the open road, without being surrounded by semi trucks, then you can easily see and avoid. But you don't get to drive like that much on I-10.

If on city streets, speeds of 45 mph or less, then of course it's quite easy to not run over a ladder. But on the freeway, even following using the two second rule, you won't have much time to avoid any object that covers your entire lane.

Just try to use the 2 second rule in LA. If you do, two cars slot into the huge space you tried to leave in front of you.

The odds are higher to die in traffic than win 100k in a lottery.
Because some idiots like to text or play on there phones or don't hold a reasonable safety distance to the car or truck in front of them.

dogman said:

Just try to use the 2 second rule in LA. If you do, two cars slot into the huge space you tried to leave in front of you.

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Same in Phoenix, but you forgot to mention the tailgaters. Heck, right here in my 21 sq. mi. 'city' there is one awkward highway entrance area where, moments after discussing its hazard with my passenger, 5 cars rear-ended each other directly behind me (bam-bam-bam-bam-thunk).

gogo said:

dogman said:

Just try to use the 2 second rule in LA. If you do, two cars slot into the huge space you tried to leave in front of you.

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Same in Phoenix, but you forgot to mention the tailgaters. Heck, right here in my 21 sq. mi. 'city' there is one awkward highway entrance area where, moments after discussing its hazard with my passenger, 5 cars rear-ended each other directly behind me (bam-bam-bam-bam-thunk).

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I leave a huge space in front of me anyway, like I'm hauling 40 tons of steel. I'd rather see or hear the carnage behind me, and just watch the parade of fools wizz by.