fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

[wasp]

this is something that came to me
why not(for drag racing...pinks..ect)
add electric drive to rear wheels?
anyone doing anything like this?

[fechter]

Actually I think someone did this on a Subaru. On a Honda, there's not much room for a motor in the rear. On some models, there may be room for an electric motor under the hood that could assist the ICE. Mr. Electric is working on something like this.

[dogman dan]

It's an interesting Idea. For my subaru space for the motor would be an issue, and might lead to having a second clutch in the backseat or something. But it at first seems like a cool idea. Use the ice motor to drive the front wheels and then do some kind of electric motor to drive the rear differential using a clutch to engage, disengage it. It would be a trip to have a car with two gas peadles. The downside is the weight of the ice system would really bog you down, so to carry it all you might have to start with a 4x4 truck or really modify the suspension of a car. I still like the concept of the same thing on a motorcycle or scooter. There is one out now, but I haven't heard of anyone reviewing it yet. Maybe they still haven't actually delivered any yet.

[docnjoj]

Toyota TRD was supposed to have a kit for the Scion Xb, rear electric, but it never materialized. It was to replace the rear axle with the motor and CV stuff and a large Li batt. Didnt happen, yet! Plenty of room back there!
otherDoc

[dogman dan]

I think weight is the issue, which is why prius has such a small battery. Lifepo4 will help with that though, when I looked at the idea I was tinking in terms of wet cells.

[wasp]

my intension was a boost at launch and upto say 100ft
were the ice motor will come into powerband
being used for racing i wouldn't need that much capacity
and could easily be recharged for next round

[PaulM]

I think the increased weight would offset any gain you might see. You would also need something to disconnect the electric drive for the remainder of the pass to prevent any drag on the rear wheels.

[wasp]

I think the increased weight would offset any gain you might see. You would also need something to disconnect the electric drive for the remainder of the pass to prevent any drag on the rear wheels.

again my intension is to use sprockets w/freewheels and chains

[cerewa]

I think the increased weight would offset any gain you might see. You would also need something to disconnect the electric drive for the remainder of the pass to prevent any drag on the rear wheels.

I saw a honda CRV (i think that's what it was) trying to reverse in snow, and the rear wheels were spinning while the front wheels just sat there.

That was the first I ever realized that they might use a freewheel on an SUV or car made by a major auto-maker.

[drunkencat129]

its posible iv been working with hondas for a long time its posible to use a crv rear end on eney civic from 89 - 00 u only need 4 bolt crv trailing arms thay got the holes for drive shafts u can bolt them up but u whould need to rig up some toe and camber and rear lower control arms to make them work also u need a crv rear diff u can strip it down and make it smaller and use the stock crv drive shafts to make it work the trailing arms may need some welding and cuting to make them shorter its been done because iv see many awd civic conversions all u whould need to do is make a motor bracket to bolt up to the diff with a electric clutch lock system and ur all good to go its simple to rig up just a pain to find a crv diff in a scrap yeard thay tend to strip them out of them b4 thay hit the up pull yeard :*(

[drunkencat129]

its posible iv been working with hondas for a long time its posible to use a crv rear end on eney civic from 89 - 00 u only need 4 bolt crv trailing arms thay got the holes for drive shafts u can bolt them up but u whould need to rig up some toe and camber and rear lower control arms to make them work also u need a crv rear diff u can strip it down and make it smaller and use the stock crv drive shafts to make it work the trailing arms may need some welding and cuting to make them shorter its been done because iv see many awd civic conversions all u whould need to do is make a motor bracket to bolt up to the diff with a electric clutch lock system and ur all good to go its simple to rig up just a pain to find a crv diff in a scrap yeard thay tend to strip them out of them b4 thay hit the up pull yeard :*(

here are the links to the conversion once the trail arms moded thay will work on eney civic from 89-00 civic
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=38765542

and
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2060180 thiss one has a lot of detail

[liveforphysics]

They made AWD integras, but they never sold in the states (and were very rare where they did sell). The suspension and diff are all able to be easily mounted into a civic, and it's much better stuff than the CRV or 4wd civic parts.

CRX and EF through EK civic hatches have plenty of room for whatever you wanted to fit back there, and swapping rear hubs for front hubs with CV inputs takes some custom work, but it's not too bad.

However, I think you would never hit the break-even point in weight. If you want to improve your 60' times, setup your suspension right, get some slicks (I run 8.5"x24" @9psi), and launch off a 2-step to enable you to make full power straight from the starting line, and get a clutch made to handle the abuse. That recipe will get you into 1.5sec 60's, which is fast enough to run into the 9s with. Even if the whole electric helper system only added 200lbs to the car, I still don't see it being worth the weight penalty.

My $0.02

[Drunkskunk]

I saw a honda CRV (i think that's what it was) trying to reverse in snow, and the rear wheels were spinning while the front wheels just sat there.

That was the first I ever realized that they might use a freewheel on an SUV or car made by a major auto-maker.

Its not a freewheel.
AWD, and fulltime 4WD cars and SUV Have a differintial in between the front and rear axle. Its needed to be able to handle the diffrent speeds of a leading front and trailing rear axle in a corner. Some have a limited slip system, but even those, its possable to overwhelm the limited slip if you're stuck in mud, sand, or snow.

Part time 4WD is diffrent in that the front and rear axles are locked together.

[tostino]

Even if the whole electric helper system only added 200lbs to the car, I still don't see it being worth the weight penalty.

My $0.02

I think if he used some A123's for a small lightweight pack, and a motor that could help throughout the run (not just starting off) it would be worth the weight.

[vanilla ice]

FWD drag racing on std. tires is a very specific case. I think this is what the OP is asking about? If not, get slicks or DOT drag radials like phys says. On regular tires on a non-prepped surface traction is so much an issue that a RWD E-assist could pass the break even point IMO. A light hi-C pack lasting 2 seconds or so might work out best. Some A123 and gear it low enough so the motor is spun out by 20mph. Would not be cheap or easy to do, and would be useless outside of these narrow conditions..