fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
Post Reply
User avatar
wasp   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 679
Joined: Apr 03 2008 6:07pm

fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by wasp » Sep 13 2008 4:02pm

this is something that came to me
why not(for drag racing...pinks..ect)
add electric drive to rear wheels?
anyone doing anything like this?

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14638
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by fechter » Sep 13 2008 7:37pm

Actually I think someone did this on a Subaru. On a Honda, there's not much room for a motor in the rear. On some models, there may be room for an electric motor under the hood that could assist the ICE. Mr. Electric is working on something like this.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 35386
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by dogman dan » Sep 14 2008 5:55am

It's an interesting Idea. For my subaru space for the motor would be an issue, and might lead to having a second clutch in the backseat or something. But it at first seems like a cool idea. Use the ice motor to drive the front wheels and then do some kind of electric motor to drive the rear differential using a clutch to engage, disengage it. It would be a trip to have a car with two gas peadles. The downside is the weight of the ice system would really bog you down, so to carry it all you might have to start with a 4x4 truck or really modify the suspension of a car. I still like the concept of the same thing on a motorcycle or scooter. There is one out now, but I haven't heard of anyone reviewing it yet. Maybe they still haven't actually delivered any yet.

User avatar
docnjoj   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5787
Joined: Sep 29 2007 5:26pm
Location: Fairhope AL

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by docnjoj » Sep 14 2008 11:50am

Toyota TRD was supposed to have a kit for the Scion Xb, rear electric, but it never materialized. It was to replace the rear axle with the motor and CV stuff and a large Li batt. Didnt happen, yet! Plenty of room back there!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 35386
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by dogman dan » Sep 14 2008 12:47pm

I think weight is the issue, which is why prius has such a small battery. Lifepo4 will help with that though, when I looked at the idea I was tinking in terms of wet cells.

User avatar
wasp   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 679
Joined: Apr 03 2008 6:07pm

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by wasp » Sep 14 2008 4:52pm

my intension was a boost at launch and upto say 100ft
were the ice motor will come into powerband
being used for racing i wouldn't need that much capacity
and could easily be recharged for next round

User avatar
PaulM   100 W

100 W
Posts: 161
Joined: Aug 18 2008 8:20pm
Location: Lucknow, ON

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by PaulM » Sep 14 2008 6:41pm

I think the increased weight would offset any gain you might see. You would also need something to disconnect the electric drive for the remainder of the pass to prevent any drag on the rear wheels.

User avatar
wasp   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 679
Joined: Apr 03 2008 6:07pm

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by wasp » Sep 14 2008 7:20pm

PaulM wrote:I think the increased weight would offset any gain you might see. You would also need something to disconnect the electric drive for the remainder of the pass to prevent any drag on the rear wheels.
again my intension is to use sprockets w/freewheels and chains

cerewa   100 W

100 W
Posts: 159
Joined: Oct 25 2007 5:06pm

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by cerewa » Oct 17 2008 7:49am

I think the increased weight would offset any gain you might see. You would also need something to disconnect the electric drive for the remainder of the pass to prevent any drag on the rear wheels.
I saw a honda CRV (i think that's what it was) trying to reverse in snow, and the rear wheels were spinning while the front wheels just sat there.

That was the first I ever realized that they might use a freewheel on an SUV or car made by a major auto-maker.

drunkencat129   100 W

100 W
Posts: 116
Joined: Aug 05 2008 11:44pm

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by drunkencat129 » Jun 13 2009 12:12am

its posible iv been working with hondas for a long time its posible to use a crv rear end on eney civic from 89 - 00 u only need 4 bolt crv trailing arms thay got the holes for drive shafts u can bolt them up but u whould need to rig up some toe and camber and rear lower control arms to make them work also u need a crv rear diff u can strip it down and make it smaller and use the stock crv drive shafts to make it work the trailing arms may need some welding and cuting to make them shorter its been done because iv see many awd civic conversions all u whould need to do is make a motor bracket to bolt up to the diff with a electric clutch lock system and ur all good to go :P its simple to rig up just a pain to find a crv diff in a scrap yeard thay tend to strip them out of them b4 thay hit the up pull yeard :*(

drunkencat129   100 W

100 W
Posts: 116
Joined: Aug 05 2008 11:44pm

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by drunkencat129 » Jun 13 2009 12:24am

drunkencat129 wrote:its posible iv been working with hondas for a long time its posible to use a crv rear end on eney civic from 89 - 00 u only need 4 bolt crv trailing arms thay got the holes for drive shafts u can bolt them up but u whould need to rig up some toe and camber and rear lower control arms to make them work also u need a crv rear diff u can strip it down and make it smaller and use the stock crv drive shafts to make it work the trailing arms may need some welding and cuting to make them shorter its been done because iv see many awd civic conversions all u whould need to do is make a motor bracket to bolt up to the diff with a electric clutch lock system and ur all good to go :P its simple to rig up just a pain to find a crv diff in a scrap yeard thay tend to strip them out of them b4 thay hit the up pull yeard :*(


here are the links to the conversion once the trail arms moded thay will work on eney civic from 89-00 civic
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=38765542

and
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2060180 thiss one has a lot of detail

User avatar
liveforphysics   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14134
Joined: Oct 29 2008 1:48am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 13 2009 1:06am

They made AWD integras, but they never sold in the states (and were very rare where they did sell). The suspension and diff are all able to be easily mounted into a civic, and it's much better stuff than the CRV or 4wd civic parts.

CRX and EF through EK civic hatches have plenty of room for whatever you wanted to fit back there, and swapping rear hubs for front hubs with CV inputs takes some custom work, but it's not too bad.

However, I think you would never hit the break-even point in weight. If you want to improve your 60' times, setup your suspension right, get some slicks (I run 8.5"x24" @9psi), and launch off a 2-step to enable you to make full power straight from the starting line, and get a clutch made to handle the abuse. That recipe will get you into 1.5sec 60's, which is fast enough to run into the 9s with. Even if the whole electric helper system only added 200lbs to the car, I still don't see it being worth the weight penalty.

My $0.02
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

User avatar
Drunkskunk   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Apr 14 2007 11:37am
Location: Dallas, Texas. U.S.A.

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by Drunkskunk » Jun 13 2009 9:56am

cerewa wrote:
I saw a honda CRV (i think that's what it was) trying to reverse in snow, and the rear wheels were spinning while the front wheels just sat there.

That was the first I ever realized that they might use a freewheel on an SUV or car made by a major auto-maker.

Its not a freewheel.
AWD, and fulltime 4WD cars and SUV Have a differintial in between the front and rear axle. Its needed to be able to handle the diffrent speeds of a leading front and trailing rear axle in a corner. Some have a limited slip system, but even those, its possable to overwhelm the limited slip if you're stuck in mud, sand, or snow.

Part time 4WD is diffrent in that the front and rear axles are locked together.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Monster Bike:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=38667

tostino   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 970
Joined: Mar 24 2008 4:12pm
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by tostino » Jun 14 2009 2:26pm

liveforphysics wrote:Even if the whole electric helper system only added 200lbs to the car, I still don't see it being worth the weight penalty.

My $0.02
I think if he used some A123's for a small lightweight pack, and a motor that could help throughout the run (not just starting off) it would be worth the weight.

User avatar
vanilla ice   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2778
Joined: Sep 05 2007 9:15pm
Location: socal dude

Re: fwd ice(honda)+ellectric driving rear wheels

Post by vanilla ice » Aug 11 2009 12:04pm

FWD drag racing on std. tires is a very specific case. I think this is what the OP is asking about? If not, get slicks or DOT drag radials like phys says. On regular tires on a non-prepped surface traction is so much an issue that a RWD E-assist could pass the break even point IMO. A light hi-C pack lasting 2 seconds or so might work out best. Some A123 and gear it low enough so the motor is spun out by 20mph. Would not be cheap or easy to do, and would be useless outside of these narrow conditions..

Post Reply