The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
Post Reply
User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7434
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 30 2008 10:00pm



Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
Link   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2799
Joined: Dec 09 2007 8:46pm
Location: The Roxbury

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Link » Oct 31 2008 1:45am

LOL, I remember this one. Then again, I've watched WAY too much YouTube, so that's not really surprising...
ಠ_ಠ
Packcycle 2.0 - Scwhinn S-Go
Do you wumbo?
My mind is an enigma. So much so that, sometimes, even I don't know what I was thinking.

rguy56   100 W

100 W
Posts: 212
Joined: Aug 04 2008 8:06pm
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by rguy56 » Oct 31 2008 2:07am

Speed'll get you out of trouble every time!!! Good one!

Bob

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Zoot Katz » Oct 31 2008 2:46am

Not funny.

When a pedestrian is struck the likelihood of death increases faster than the percentage increase in vehicle speed in a nonlinear fashion.
At 20mph the odds of pedestrian death is 5%
At 30 mph the odds of pedestrian death is 45% or 37% depending on which study you read.
At 40 mph the odds of pedestrian death is 85% or 83% depending on which study you read.

Were I to expound on this subject it would require moving to the cesspool.

rguy56   100 W

100 W
Posts: 212
Joined: Aug 04 2008 8:06pm
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by rguy56 » Oct 31 2008 1:40pm

Ok, so it's dark comedy. Beyond slapstick. Still, to the twisted among us, it's a funny gag.

I'll bet I've dealt with more dead people on the streets than pretty much everyone here, and it effects me deeply and profoundly. For a couple of years I wouldn't even ride my bike because of it.

The video, or the tag line, is clearly not meant seriously. At most it's pointing back at the "FICKLE FINGER OF FATE".

Bob

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7434
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 31 2008 3:53pm

At 40 mph the odds of pedestrian death is 85% or 83% depending on which study you read.
:shock:

It's good to know that.. we are a dozen here that can go that speed :lol: and sometime 45mph... :x

so i would guess that 45mph = 99% :|

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Zoot Katz » Oct 31 2008 5:51pm

rguy56 wrote:Ok, so it's dark comedy. Beyond slapstick. Still, to the twisted among us, it's a funny gag.

I'll bet I've dealt with more dead people on the streets than pretty much everyone here, and it effects me deeply and profoundly. For a couple of years I wouldn't even ride my bike because of it.

The video, or the tag line, is clearly not meant seriously. At most it's pointing back at the "FICKLE FINGER OF FATE".

Bob
Oh, I got the "humour".

While speed isn't the leading cause of collisions it is the greatest factor when tabulating the deaths resulting from those collisions.
I've also heard all the excuses drivers use to rationalise their blatant disregard for speed limits. That they're above average and the speed limits are under posted are the leading two.

Fact is, in that video the driver should have stopped when they saw the pedestrian at the crosswalk. Too often they speed up to deny a pedestrian their opportunity to cross the street just so they don't have to brake.

What further raises my bile is that motorcide is generally punished with a wrist slap.
Last edited by Zoot Katz on Oct 31 2008 6:00pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Zoot Katz » Oct 31 2008 5:52pm

Doctorbass wrote:
At 40 mph the odds of pedestrian death is 85% or 83% depending on which study you read.
:shock:

It's good to know that.. we are a dozen here that can go that speed :lol: and sometime 45mph... :x

so i would guess that 45mph = 99% :|

Doc
I've ridden a bicycle at over 50mph drafting trucks on the highway wearing only gloves for "safety" gear.
Considering that Sam Wittingham has done over 82mph on the flats with pedal power alone, ebike speeds under that don't impress me much.

I've thrown a motorcycle down the road at over 60mph and I'm still here. Tip: don't try standing up until you've stopped sliding.

That collision fatalities increase with speed is due to the mass of the object hitting you. Newton's law.
Maybe somebody can figure out how fast 300 lbs of bike and rider has to hit a pedestrian for an assured kill. Don't forget to factor in age as it also affects survivability rates.

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7434
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 31 2008 7:01pm

I totally agree with you Zoot Katz ! :wink:

There is only one thing that catch my attention strangely: the 82mph ON FLAT by pedaling :shock:

Is it in a special aerodynamic low profile shape??

Cause the best cyclist can do max 1300W... I mean the best! and during few second... not holding!

.. And that at 40mph the power required to hold this speed is around 2200W.. so.. i guess with the non linear factor 82mph would need like 7000 or 8000W just to fight the wind..

I would like to get more info about this "speed record?"

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Zoot Katz » Oct 31 2008 7:21pm

Doctorbass wrote:I totally agree with you Zoot Katz ! :wink:

There is only one thing that catch my attention strangely: the 82mph ON FLAT by pedaling :shock:

Is it in a special aerodynamic low profile shape??

Cause the best cyclist can do max 1300W... I mean the best! and during few second... not holding!

.. And that at 40mph the power required to hold this speed is around 2200W.. so.. i guess with the non linear factor 82mph would need like 7000 or 8000W just to fight the wind..

I would like to get more info about this "speed record?"

Doc
Yup, it's a low racer type recumbent. The shell is designed by Georgi Georgiev without aid of windtunnel testing. He's a sculptor and owner of Varna Cycles that makes bikes for people with special needs. Sam is the owner of Naked Bikes builder of fine custom handmade bikes.

The world record holding HPV:
http://www.fortebikes.com/gosamgo/A3/ma ... ign06.html

Lots more on Google and YouTube.
http://tinyurl.com/6xwola

User avatar
Freddyflatfoot   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 322
Joined: Sep 19 2007 8:25pm
Location: Victoria , Australia

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Freddyflatfoot » Oct 31 2008 10:26pm

Sam whittingham holds the world speed record for a HPV.
Yes, it is a streamlined recumbent bike, and he managed 132.5 kph, through a 200 m speed trap at Battle Mountain, in Nevada.
FYI, other HPV records broken this year.
1 Hour speed record, ~87.2 kph for a faired recumbent
and 49.6 kph for an unfaired recumbent!
Cheers!
Rob
Current setup, 250 watt/24 volt chain drive setup on Jamis MTB, 24 volt, 10 AHr Yesa LiFePO4 pack. 15A controller. (increased to 20A, currently dismantled) (motor sold)
Home built recumbent trike, 350 watt, brushless, geared, hub motor, 36v/10AHr 'Duct Tape' LiFePo4

cerewa   100 W

100 W
Posts: 159
Joined: Oct 25 2007 5:06pm

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by cerewa » Nov 01 2008 12:41pm

I would like to get more info about this "speed record?"
The bicycle speed/power calculator
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
says that:
1000 watts gets you about 37 miles per hour on a road bike and 43 miles per hour on a high end timetrial bike. (upright bicycles).
According to the calculator 1000 watts gets you about 73 miles per hour for a bike like this one:
http://www.speed101.com/images/sb/whitehawk_1999.jpg

This bike,
http://images.google.com/images?q=varna+diablo
...which us the holder of the 82mph record, might well be able to go 82mph on 1000w of power. I'm not sure of Sam Wittingham's power output, but I suspect he puts out less power than whoever it is that was measured at 1300 watts... but Sam is obviously very strong.

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7434
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Doctorbass » Nov 02 2008 7:12pm

cerewa wrote:
I would like to get more info about this "speed record?"
The bicycle speed/power calculator
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
says that:
1000 watts gets you about 37 miles per hour on a road bike and 43 miles per hour on a high end timetrial bike. (upright bicycles).
According to the calculator 1000 watts gets you about 73 miles per hour for a bike like this one:
http://www.speed101.com/images/sb/whitehawk_1999.jpg

This bike,
http://images.google.com/images?q=varna+diablo
...which us the holder of the 82mph record, might well be able to go 82mph on 1000w of power. I'm not sure of Sam Wittingham's power output, but I suspect he puts out less power than whoever it is that was measured at 1300 watts... but Sam is obviously very strong.
I believe that there is no cyclist that can hold 1000W during 10 seconds! this world record breaker use 500W max at this record speed and it's for a brief period...
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

Mathurin   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1166
Joined: May 24 2006 2:49pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Mathurin » Nov 02 2008 7:35pm

Something like that, pro level sprinters make for incredibly hot races, certainly makes you appreciate why stiffness reigns supreme on their bikes:



But anyways at the rehab center there were perhaps 10X more motorcyclists then cyclists, yet on the roads there's 20-50X more cyclists. To me, this strongly suggests that faster does not equal safer.
You have to know, not fear, that someday you are going to die. Until you know that and embrace that, you are useless. - Tyler Durden, Fight club. Ditch the fake identity you've created for yourself, walk your own way in a society of mindless drones to become real, you are not your social status.

User avatar
Hangdog98   10 W

10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Nov 16 2008 5:32am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Hangdog98 » Nov 17 2008 9:05pm

Food for thought. Robbie McEwen, who's won a number of Tour de France stages in sprint finishes: his measured power output is closer to 1,700 Watts (SRM meter) and he only weighs 135-140 pounds. He is not the most powerful cyclist on earth by a long shot. I've read that some track cyclists generate 2500W+.

Of course I've not measured McEwan personally but that's the skinny from the peloton.

*Insert standard IMHO disclaimer here*

I'm no expert unless I'm on the internet

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7434
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Doctorbass » Nov 17 2008 10:02pm

Hangdog98 wrote:Food for thought. Robbie McEwen, who's won a number of Tour de France stages in sprint finishes: his measured power output is closer to 1,700 Watts (SRM meter) and he only weighs 135-140 pounds. He is not the most powerful cyclist on earth by a long shot. I've read that some track cyclists generate 2500W+.

Of course I've not measured McEwan personally but that's the skinny from the peloton.

*Insert standard IMHO disclaimer here*

I'm no expert unless I'm on the internet
HP would change to (Human Power) :mrgreen:

2.5kW is 3.5Hp :shock: PEAK i guess!
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Zoot Katz » Nov 17 2008 11:19pm

Doctorbass wrote:
Hangdog98 wrote:Food for thought. Robbie McEwen, who's won a number of Tour de France stages in sprint finishes: his measured power output is closer to 1,700 Watts (SRM meter) and he only weighs 135-140 pounds. He is not the most powerful cyclist on earth by a long shot. I've read that some track cyclists generate 2500W+.

Of course I've not measured McEwan personally but that's the skinny from the peloton.

*Insert standard IMHO disclaimer here*

I'm no expert unless I'm on the internet
HP would change to (Human Power) :mrgreen:

2.5kW is 3.5Hp :shock: PEAK i guess!
Yes. But, they can't put out that much for as long as your battery pack will.
Hitting a peak of 2200 W in the final 100 meters is doable by top echelon pro sprinters.

Marty Nothstien was pushing 2200 Watts when he won gold in Sydney. That's spinning a 50 X 14 gear at 160 rpm. . . 49 MPH.

I doubt there's many people here who can put out more than three watts per kilogram of body weight for more than an hour.
Being able to hold 10 watts/kg for one minute puts you in the pro tour category.

The Tour de France average speed is over 42KmH for ~3500 kilometers in three weeks. It's more than a matter of overall Watts though. Smaller guys climb easier, bigger guys catch 'em in the sprints. Psychological factors enter the equation also.

Here's some interesting tables and graphs:
http://www.adventuresofgreg.com/hpvlog/09-19.html

rguy56   100 W

100 W
Posts: 212
Joined: Aug 04 2008 8:06pm
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by rguy56 » Nov 18 2008 12:03am

3W/kg. woo hoo! I could throw out these motors!

Bob

User avatar
Hangdog98   10 W

10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Nov 16 2008 5:32am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Hangdog98 » Nov 18 2008 12:26am

Zoot Katz wrote: Yes. But, they can't put out that much for as long as your battery pack will.
Yes I know. It's a 100% effort for the last 60 metres or so and lasts about 20 to 30 seconds before the curve drops away to almost nothing. But it's still an impressive human power output, albeit brief.

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Zoot Katz » Nov 18 2008 12:44am

Hangdog98 wrote:
Zoot Katz wrote: Yes. But, they can't put out that much for as long as your battery pack will.
Yes I know. It's a 100% effort for the last 60 metres or so and lasts about 20 to 30 seconds before the curve drops away to almost nothing. But it's still an impressive human power output, albeit brief.
If you don't puke or collapse at the end of a time trial, you know you could have gone faster.

Mathurin   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1166
Joined: May 24 2006 2:49pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Mathurin » Nov 19 2008 2:30am

Coggan & Allen's Training and racing with a power meter has a scale that tops off with the cream of world class pro's at 24.04w/kg for 5s, 11.50w/kg for 1min, 7.60 w/kg for 5min and an FT of 6.40 w/kg. We're talking people who's been training since they were kids, have genetic anomalies that predispose them to being good at cycling and are doped to the max they think will pass undetected.

That's a completely different time zone next to real life, where pretty much every cyclist goes between 25-30 km/h on the flats.


Protip: Weed increases hematocrit, it's why the UCI banned it. It also turns your bike into a frocking jet, and you become a pilot.

Edit: darn, edited while reply.
Last edited by Mathurin on Nov 19 2008 2:45am, edited 2 times in total.
You have to know, not fear, that someday you are going to die. Until you know that and embrace that, you are useless. - Tyler Durden, Fight club. Ditch the fake identity you've created for yourself, walk your own way in a society of mindless drones to become real, you are not your social status.

User avatar
Hangdog98   10 W

10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Nov 16 2008 5:32am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Hangdog98 » Nov 19 2008 2:38am

I think I'm pumping out a massive 3W per Kg at peak effort. Not very impresive at all I'm afraid. Maybe I should get some of that CERA.

User avatar
Hangdog98   10 W

10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Nov 16 2008 5:32am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The REAL difference between 30mph and 50mph !

Post by Hangdog98 » Dec 21 2008 12:08am

Mathurin wrote: Protip: Weed increases hematocrit, it's why the UCI banned it. It also turns your bike into a frocking jet, and you become a pilot.
Weed increases hematocrit in the same way cigarettes do. The smoke contains carbon monoxide which is 200 times more attracted to haemoglobin than oxygen is. The CO molecule attaches itself to your red blood cell and stays there until the cell dies, in 75 days or so. With millions of cells now rendered useless by carbon monoxide, the body has to create new red cells and this is how you show a higher hematocrit, though up to 20% of your blood can no longer carry oxygen.

The jet pilot sensation you are experiencing at 15mph... is from the other component of the weed.

Post Reply