Surge in electric car sales

... in the UK.

Almost 50,000 electric or hybrid-electric cars were sold in the first six months of this year, up 22 per cent on the same period last year, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.

One in every 30 cars bought in Britain is now powered, at least in part, by electricity.

At present sales rates, electric cars will outsell petrol and diesel vehicles by 2027, according to Go Ultra Low,…

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Seen here:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...gs-end-to-free-charging-on-motorway-8fmfs0k3n

Thats nice..
I think Tesla might get a big fine for being a bit dodgey with their self driving system.. I think pretending people aren't blindly/blatantly trusting Teslas self driving technology while officially saying you gotta treat it like standard cruise control won't cut it with the government.

When I read that Tesla doesn't have Lidar I just couldn't believe me eyes.. I just assumed it had some kind of really discrete Lidar sensor on the car somewhere but its just basic optical front camera.

Seems to be that celebrity CEOs like Musk and Steve Jobs let all the fame and power get to their heads...
People love these guys because what they can do for 'them', no one gives a crap about Bill Gates and his personal 50 billion dollars worth going all to philanthropy.
I am a fan of Tesla but I can't help now but view Musks mind frame as someone whos comfortable with letting the odd person die because hes doing so much good and everyone just loves him anyway..
This type of set of ingredients helps conjure the evil in people..
Two really good articles..
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/06/tesla-says-fortune-is-fundamentally-incorrect-on-autopilot-after-model-s-crash.html
Title: "Tesla Autopilot Fatality Shows Why Lidar And V2V Will Be Necessary For Autonomous Cars"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2016/07/01/first-tesla-autopilot-fatality-demonstrates-why-lidar-and-v2v-probably-will-be-necessary/#4a60a6f23f66

And a video..
[youtube]qnZHRupjl5E[/youtube]

*Add*/Edit, Added this video to be clear about lidar capabilities, speed things up... Google search it.. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=lidar+autonomous+use+at+night&oq=lidar+autonomous+use+at+night
[youtube]cc15Ox8UzEw[/youtube]

LIDAR will not work in the dark or the rain or the snow so its really useless.
Elon is not comfortable with people dying. From a moral level and a business stand point.

They are paving the way to the future.

There is always people who don't listen that's how the human race works.

Yes In my opinion tesla need to have some sensors on the steering wheel to make sure your hands are on it and some sort of sensor to make sure you are awake...

But as with any new tech that stuff takes time to evolve. So many people pick on Tesla. When you should be proud of them.
This article says it all better then I ever could.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a29944/leave-tesla-alone/

Arlo1 said:

LIDAR will not work in the dark or the rain or the snow so its really useless.

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http://www.gizmag.com/ford-autonomous-cars-dark/42742/

Maybe not the best source, but above article suggests that Ford uses LiDAR in the dark and the snow on test vehicles.

This one suggests that rain is also accounted for:
http://qz.com/637509/driverless-cars-have-a-new-way-to-navigate-in-rain-or-snow/

https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/15/elon-musk-adamantly-standing-by-improving-radar-even-though-its-so-close-to-lidar/

All this tech stuff may be great, but, remember, there is no way to fix STUPID.

I've used Tesla's autopilot system twice now.

It's already better than myself a driver who has distractions and falls asleep.

Humans get 2 eyes for optical reflected light vision, and no LiDAR and no full perimeter sonar and no radars. With only this 2 eyes forward optical sensor system in a human head, it seems a bit dangerous to allow humans to drive without LiDAR and Radar etc. **Edit (This is sarcasm about humans not being a good idea to drive, but it won't be long before cars autopilots are radically safer/better at everything).

In my experience with multirotors and LiDAR, it's been foiled by flying over water or grass or car windshields etc.

Electric cars are going to outpace ICE sales much faster than that 2027 prediction. Starting an ICE will likely be illegal in a crowded place well before 2027 in civilized places.

It won't be about the pace of technology. It only takes awareness that the current ICE methods are causing ~5-7million human deaths annually (a Holocaust worth of senseless death each year). On top of the direct deaths, when it becomes wide spread knowledge that the mutagen impacts of benzene compounds are the reasons why so many children have defective genetics, it will rapidly become an publically outrageous act to drive an ICE vehicle in a crowded public place.

Not in the mood to argue every specific point there. But that seems just a bit fanatical LFP- and a weird contradiction to other things you voice importance in.

I still have no clue what type of a world you think is the 'best', but the pieces aren't painting a great picture for me.

Harold in CR said:

All this tech stuff may be great, but, remember, there is no way to fix STUPID.

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Ahh, hard earned lessons from the Costa Rican roads perhaps? Although I saw a lot of morons in the States as well.

I somehow have difficulty imagining an auto-drive system on the narrow mountain roads here, where large animals (horses, cows, sheep, goats), multiple pedestrians (entire families walking abreast), large trucks taking half your lane, suicidal motorcyclists, terrible fog, and blinding rain are all common being anything other than extremely dangerous. But like many ex-techies, I'm now a Luddite.

Do we really WANT to fix stupid?

Just observations from the Youtube crowd. I don't care how others kill themselves. I just don't want to be one of their victims.

I don't drive in CR, until I get my reverse trike going, and then, the roads I need to be on are relatively safe out where I live, considering all those things induna mentioned.

induna said:

Harold in CR said:

All this tech stuff may be great, but, remember, there is no way to fix STUPID.

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Ahh, hard earned lessons from the Costa Rican roads perhaps? Although I saw a lot of morons in the States as well.

I somehow have difficulty imagining an auto-drive system on the narrow mountain roads here, where large animals (horses, cows, sheep, goats), multiple pedestrians (entire families walking abreast), large trucks taking half your lane, suicidal motorcyclists, terrible fog, and blinding rain are all common being anything other than extremely dangerous. But like many ex-techies, I'm now a Luddite.

Do we really WANT to fix stupid?

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If you can imagine a human successfully doing it with just a pair of eyes looking forward, it's possible for a machine looking forward and backward with various arrays of sensors and cameras to do it better.

Sorry but 'data' doesn't exist yet lol, and even if/when, it's my bet it'll always be the flawed version 'Lore'.

. . . . Didn't you watch startrek

TheBeastie said:

I think Tesla might get a big fine for being a bit dodgey with their self driving system.. I think pretending people aren't blindly/blatantly trusting Teslas self driving technology while officially saying you gotta treat it like standard cruise control won't cut it . . . celebrity CEOs like Musk and Steve Jobs let all the fame and power get to their heads...
People love these guys because what they can do for 'them'. . . .
I am a fan of Tesla but I can't help now but view Musks mind frame as someone whos comfortable with letting the odd person die because hes doing so much good and everyone just loves him anyway.

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Sounds like you know him as though you're his brother or something. Elon has always been forthright here, dodgy there, eh? Does being in his position make him that way, or is that what it takes to GET there?

But I just remind of asking too much of people too soon, especially where technology is involved. To varying degrees people already fear the range reliability, fear the battery fires, fear the forcefulness with which so many wish they could DEMAND whatever electric cars happen to be laying around be shoved down their throats.

So now that there's finally a full fledged exotic electric that turns heads as it drives by, we encounter the 'Bridge too Far' effect with this self driving. People aren't just going to be afraid to drive it, they'll be afraid of OTHER PEOPLE driving it. One piece of technology too many. For every Mr. Physics so quick to accept it, expect several who are cringing at the thought. Too much too soon.

Dauntless said:

TheBeastie said:

I think Tesla might get a big fine for being a bit dodgey with their self driving system.. I think pretending people aren't blindly/blatantly trusting Teslas self driving technology while officially saying you gotta treat it like standard cruise control won't cut it . . . celebrity CEOs like Musk and Steve Jobs let all the fame and power get to their heads...
People love these guys because what they can do for 'them'. . . .
I am a fan of Tesla but I can't help now but view Musks mind frame as someone whos comfortable with letting the odd person die because hes doing so much good and everyone just loves him anyway.

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Sounds like you know him as though you're his brother or something. Elon has always been forthright here, dodgy there, eh? Does being in his position make him that way, or is that what it takes to GET there?
.

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I know Elon through his chosen actions and its all pretty simple and hard to obscure to any normal mind unless your vulnerable Chewbacca Defense.. And I expect he will/is using tactics like the Chewbacca Defense..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clKi92j6eLE

Elon approved a self driving system that doesn't even check that there is a body in the drivers seat when active, and pretending that people aren't being reckless with it is just plain dodgy .. Using a single mono optical camera as its core sensor for the front.. The only reason in the world not to add Lidar is for financial reasons..
Basically all the other self driving cars have Lidar so its not what it takes to get there, he just thinks hes allowed to do things others can't.. Its just like Steve Jobs who was constantly parking his car in handicapped spaces etc..
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=steve+jobs+parking+in+handicapped

Even when you watch that video of that guy who says "Tesla Autopilot tried to kill me" you can see at 10 secs in even his well inside the car internal gopro camera creates flash white picture from the sun at the exact same time the Tesla veers right into oncoming traffic which its single mono optical camera obviously suffered the same issue.. Its dodgy.. And the excuses that you got to treat it like normal cruise control but not even require a body in the drivers seat etc on top of all those youtube videos of people doing silly things with it is deliberately ignoring the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrwxEX8qOxA

From the reading I have done the Radar is for obstacles and the optical camera is to read signs and other things but not look for obstacles.

Its pretty easy for you guys who have not and done not to sit and critique someone working hard to make a difference.

Maybe rather then telling us how Elon is doing it all wrong why don't you guys get out of your moms basements and go build something that works better and actually show us how its done.

You can't say shit unless you actually build or test this stuff your self.

I mean at least go drive some cars with this tech and then report....

You guys act like Tesla is just whipping something up without testing. They have been testing with LIDAR and found its not that great.

"Good thing about RADAR is unlike LIDAR it can see though things like rain, snow, fog and dust."

http://insideevs.com/elon-musk-tesla-doesnt-need-lidar-will-tweak-radar-to-be-lidar-like/

I was going to address (counter) these points, but instead shrug.

He's a real american hero guys.

Let's salute a budweiser :lol: 'Mr real american battery and space electric car god'

Back to the OP's subject...

I see where GM's Volt almost took over Tesla's 1st place in sales last month. Seems like everybody is introducing Ecars in the near future. It's a good thing. The more the merrier.

nicobie said:

Back to the OP's subject...
I see where GM's Volt almost took over Tesla's 1st place in sales last month. Seems like everybody is introducing Ecars in the near future. It's a good thing. The more the merrier.

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More "junk" battery cells from wrecked vehicles. hehe

The title in the video above is "see motorists play, read, and relax...in self-driving cars as second Tesla crashes"

A bit disingenuous. Its been proven that one of those cars had the auto drive turned off, and I suspect after the crash he just wanted to claim it was "ON" to grab some headlines, maybe to get a payoff to shut his mouth? Musk didn't fold, the guy is a liar.

The other crash was legit, An 18-wheeler pulled out, and the Tesla didn't recognize the side of the trailer as a vehicle. That being said....The Tesla's on auto-pilot have a safer record, a MUCH safer record...compared to normal cars being driven by people.

In my comment earlier in this thread, I was referring to the stupid people, not the technology. There is no telling how many times I avoided being wrecked or wrecking someone innocent of the situation, by reading the drivers of the offending vehicles.

When tech can do that, I might have more confidence in it. In 2 of my experiences, absolutely no time was available for a tech car to alert me before I took action. At todays speeds and overspeeds, things happen too fast for alerts to grab stupid peoples awareness.

Harold in CR said:

In my comment earlier in this thread, I was referring to the stupid people, not the technology. There is no telling how many times I avoided being wrecked or wrecking someone innocent of the situation, by reading the drivers of the offending vehicles.

When tech can do that, I might have more confidence in it. In 2 of my experiences, absolutely no time was available for a tech car to alert me before I took action. At todays speeds and overspeeds, things happen too fast for alerts to grab stupid peoples awareness.

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But it can apply the brakes....... Maybe even steer a little.

Yes, it can, Arlo. Both really close instances I referred to in my experiences, I never applied the brakes until after the fact of being run over and or smashing the vehicle broadside on the 90 degree side of the intersection I was entering. Steering and luck allowed me to escape with only a caved in rear quarter panel, instead of a head on, and the other, being run over by a semi trailer fruit hauler. I'm sure most of the people here have had the same experiences. The quarter panel instance was the ONLY wreck I have ever been involved in since 1961, when I got licensed.
Again, I'm not necessarily knocking tech, just stating that stupid people that are not paying attention will be the ones that cause the problems, as they do now.

Actually, Beastie, I didn't really mean you needed to defend your position, just reminding that he's something close to standard issue for the position he's in.

Arlo1 said:

Its pretty easy for you guys who have not and done not to sit and critique someone working hard to make a difference.

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Dang, is this REALLY the community to be going on about "Done not?" Maybe the fleet here isn't so impressive, but it took some doing.

Arlo1 said:

Maybe rather then telling us how Elon is doing it all wrong why don't you guys get out of your moms basements and go build something that works better and actually show us how its done.

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Mom's basement might be all that's available to some of these people. You wanna take away their only workspace? Dang, I wish I HAD a basement, or at least a bigger garage.

I'd also say you're exaggerating quite a bit in saying what they're trying to say, I don't think the posts fit that description. All you're saying is that they are NOT entitled to their own opinion. As does Obama.

After riding motorcycles exclusively for over 15 years I have to say that the only thing that saved me was the hard won ability to read other drivers on the road. That same skill saved my butt on numerous occasions behind the wheel as well. I learned to see trouble developing, and to avoid it, before it affected me. Our mushy, inefficient brains with our limited, but highly optimized sensors do a damn good job at processing the kind of massively parallel data required to survive on the road. Of course, we can also fail catastrophically as well, but at least we don't fail systematically. I have not seen any data to suggest that the current generation of auto-drive systems are anywhere near as sophisticated as the expert system I carry between my ears. And seriously, we just don't have any significant data to support the assertion that auto-drive systems are any safer under normal driving conditions. At this point statements to contrary are professions of faith and no more. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's all that it is.

Hehe... In true ES fashion, this thread steered off in another direction. Whether "self-driving" vehicles will "save the world"? Can't say. Though given a growing population, with more and more living "urban" on this little ball of dirt ("earth")... I'm not sure cars powered by any means can "save the world". That they won't spend just as much time parked (save for car sharing) taking up a huge amount of space (arable land, etc) and maybe still do lots of damage and injure and kill (though in a more "eco-friendly" fashion!).

Back to OP in this thread, in the UK "Almost 50,000 electric or hybrid-electric cars were sold in the first six months of this year, up 22 per cent on the same period last year"... and "One in every 30 cars bought in Britain is now powered, at least in part, by electricity".

But I'm not convinced yet that city roads clogged with large, heavy, fast (expensive) battery-electric vehicles can be the "way forward". My money's still on the "ebike"... and BANNING (large, heavy, fast) private vehicles from cities. As is already happening elsewhere. All over the world.

This report of sales of "electric cars" surging in the UK and elsewhere are bit of "one more nail in the coffin" for the 20th-century horseless carriage.

As a die-hard ebiker (odd expression... hehe) I see this news only as more development and sales of batteries.

So. These self-driving vehicles... Can they be programmed to play Pokémon GO? (Just curious.)