Hillhater
100 TW
Interesting developments being tested.
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Hillhater said:but then there is that silly Fan boost !
Martin A said:Three of the top five in the championship currently single speed after two races, including the leader.
Hillhater said:Yes the battery is really holding these back with so many constraints and regulations to comply with.
Apart from performance demands ...capacity , continuous /peak power, thermal control, etc, the pack has to meet crash survival tests, and even Aviation certification to enable them to be airfreighted around the world.
That 28kWhr pack ends up being 350 kg !
More power for the car would need a bigger capacity pack which will simply mean more weight with the current technology, and that may well cancell out the power increase
But There is a new pack design being produced for 2018 and being made by McLaren with the intention of eliminating the mid race car swap that is neccessary to complete a 50min race.
That would mean more capacity, probably more weight, potentially more peak power ?....but still an efficiency/ economy competition .
liveforphysics said:"........ The proposal was created and submitted with explicit details how to achieve it (then had to have 120kg of lead added to the bottom to meet the "minimum weight" in the version that doesn't exceed the maximum 28kWh).
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http://blog.caranddriver.com/lucid-formerly-known-as-atieva-will-be-the-sole-battery-pack-supplier-for-formula-e/.........Lucid’s Tesla Model S rival, expected to go on sale in late 2018, doesn’t even have an official name yet. But the company, which until yesterday was known as Atieva, is emerging from a self-imposed stealth mode and aims to find name recognition quickly among electric-vehicle enthusiasts and motorsports fans with this bit of news: Lucid will soon be the sole supplier of battery packs for FIA Formula E racing. Peter Rawlinson, Lucid’s chief technical officer (and the former chief engineer of the Tesla Model S), has confirmed to C/D that the agreement will be part of a three-way partnership among McLaren Applied Technologies, Lucid, and Sony. Lucid will design and construct the battery and battery management software; Sony will supply the small-format, commodity-sized cylindrical cells within; and McLaren will manage the logistics and trackside support. “Our batteries will power the entire Formula E race series for seasons 5 and 6,” said Rawlinson. “There are some major automakers entering that series—illustrious, well-recognized names—and they will all be running our batteries.”
Hillhater said:liveforphysics said:"........ The proposal was created and submitted with explicit details how to achieve it (then had to have 120kg of lead added to the bottom to meet the "minimum weight" in the version that doesn't exceed the maximum 28kWh).
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Are you saying the current FE pack has 120kg of lead ballast added just to make up the weight ?
liveforphysics said:Fortunately, it won't matter, every single ICE track lap record will fall in less than 5 years anyways. It just will be unlikely to occur at an FIM sanctioned event.
Hillhater said:....but still an efficiency/ economy competition .
jonescg said:LFP - you know my views on high voltage battery packs (with high being up to 800 volts). It's entirely workable.
Everything is volting up these days, not down. When someone comes up with a motor capable of 500 kW that runs on a 100 volt system I'll change my mind, but until then, the best power and efficiency is to be had closer to 1000 volts.
.....Lucid (Formerly Known as Atieva) Will Be the Sole Battery-Pack Supplier for Formula E
—Peter Rawlinson, Lucid chief technical officer
”. The original FIA battery specifications included a 200-kilogram (441 pound) cell-weight limit, a 200-kW peak power limit, and a maximum usable energy of 28 kWh. In revised specs starting with Season 5, cell weight has been nudged to 250 kg (551 pounds), and peak power goes up to 250 kW (with usable energy very nearly doubled, at 54 kWh). For season 5, which runs in 2018 and 2019, the supplier must also demonstrate that the pack can be fully charged in 45 minutes or less. Lucid’s contract is contingent on several certifications yet to come, as well as a battery crash test by June 2017. “
......” The physical battery packs will remain Lucid property, and the company will have access to the series data, but the FIA has to be made aware of all the data the company is using.
....Lucid is working with the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory, a U.S. Department of Energy lab based at Stanford University, and via a collaboration with the lab that uses CAT-scan-like methods, will look at physical degradation and the small-scale fractures within the battery that result from charge/discharge cycles. “It’s not just taking things off the shelf,” said Liu. “These chemistries are Lucid specific, and we consider that a competitive advantage.” Production Bound: A Cooling System and Pack Up to the Task The rigors of Formula E usage also will serve as a proving ground for Lucid’s custom architecture for battery cooling.
. And designing a pack that’s ready for potential 350-kW fast-charging parallels some of the cooling requirements for racing-level brake-energy recovery.
Liu cautioned that this is no indication that the company will go with cells from Sony—which is in the process of selling its battery business to Murata—for the production model. Lucid still is evaluating which exact size of cylindrical cell it’s going to use in the production sedan: the 18650 used by Tesla (supplied for that automaker by Panasonic) or the somewhat larger 21700. It’s working with suppliers who will assemble cells with a chemistry exclusive to the company.