Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Aug 02 2019 12:27pm

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 02 2019 11:34am
Have you figured out how that “fridge” idea was going to chill the icecap yet ?
Here, have another shovel!

Oh, dang, there's no shovel icon. You might have to buy your own.
--bill von

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jimw1960   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jimw1960 » Aug 02 2019 12:34pm

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 02 2019 11:34am

Who is in the hole here ?
I notice you have now changed your ranting to CO2, from just Carbon..
And why dont you state that figure for remaining ANTHROPOGENIC carbon in the atmosphere if you are so familiar with it ?
You guys are handy with bullsh1t , but a bit shy on real answers !
Have you figured out how that “fridge” idea was going to chill the icecap yet ?
Look, we are currently adding 10 Gt of CARBON to the atmosphere every year. That is equivalent to 36.7 Gt of CO2. We have been adding at a steadily increasing rate for several decades now. By the end of the century, if we do nothing to curb CO2 emissions, we will have been adding at that rate for over a century, resulting in a doubling of CO2 concentration since preindustrial. 10 Gt CARBON per year for over a century is MORE than on a trillion tons of CARBON. And that's if we somehow manage to not increase the rate at which we add CARBON to the atmosphere, which has been steadily increasing. If you want that in terms of CO2, multiply by 3.67.

But don't take my word for it. Here is a 2016 paper on the subject (published in a peer reviewed science journal, unlike the stuff you come up with). https://www.earth-syst-sci-data.net/8/6 ... 5-2016.pdf
It says that as of 2016, cumulative CO2 emissions were already 565 Gt of CARBON (2075 GtCO2 if you prefer in terms of CO2--that's over 2 trillion tons of CO2!). So by end of this year, we will be over 600Gt CARBON. Still don't think we are on track to add a trillion tons of CARBON to the atmosphere? As for how much is still in the atmosphere, if you bother to read the paper, you will learn that an increase of 1 ppm CO2 = 2.12 Gt CARBON. We have added about 132 ppm to the atmosphere since preindustrial concentration. So, that adds up to 280 Gt CARBON still in the atmosphere due to human activity---just under half of all cumulative emissions. About one third of cumulative emissions is dissolved in the upper layers of the oceans, increasing the acidity. The rest has been taken up by soil and plants.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 02 2019 4:34pm

billvon wrote:
Aug 02 2019 12:27pm
Hillhater wrote:
Aug 02 2019 11:34am
Have you figured out how that “fridge” idea was going to chill the icecap yet ?
Here, have another shovel!

Oh, dang, there's no shovel icon. You might have to buy your own.
Nice avoidance bill..
I shall assume you cannot explain that idea then !
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billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Aug 02 2019 4:35pm

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 02 2019 4:34pm
I shall assume you cannot explain that idea then !
You'd need basic math and physics before I can do that. Until then, keep digging!
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 02 2019 5:38pm

jimw1960 wrote:
Aug 02 2019 12:34pm
...... Here is a 2016 paper on the subject (published in a peer reviewed science journal, unlike the stuff you come up with). https://www.earth-syst-sci-data.net/8/6 ... 5-2016.pdf
It says that as of 2016, cumulative CO2 emissions were already 565 Gt of CARBON (2075 GtCO2 if you prefer in terms of CO2--that's over 2 trillion tons of CO2!). So by end of this year, we will be over 600Gt CARBON. .....
...
Ahh ! So your “trillion “. has now become 600 Gt !,
Pity you couldnt just “man up” and admit you were wrong !...
.....without all this other distraction to try to cover up your bullsh1t.
.... As for how much is still in the atmosphere, if you bother to read the paper, you will learn that an increase of 1 ppm CO2 = 2.12 Gt CARBON. We have added about 132 ppm to the atmosphere since preindustrial concentration. So, that adds up to 280 Gt CARBON still in the atmosphere due to human activity---.
I know the numbers jim, and i know how to read a study...
When they quote “estimated” 6 times, together with “ assumed” and “projected” ...all before it even gets to the introduction.....it tends to lose much of its scientific credibility (Science is not proven by consensus )
That 280Gt of carbon increase is not shown to be due to human activity,.... it is simply ASSUMED to be !
And that is certainly not scientific !
You really do not understand what “Peer Reviewed”. actually means, do you ?
Last edited by Hillhater on Aug 04 2019 9:56am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 02 2019 5:42pm

billvon wrote:
Aug 02 2019 4:35pm
Hillhater wrote:
Aug 02 2019 4:34pm
I shall assume you cannot explain that idea then !
You'd need basic math and physics before I can do that. Until then, keep digging!
Here is some basic math...
3 times i have asked.....3 times you have not been able to answer.
Keep avoiding an answer .!
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 02 2019 8:28pm

The permafrost as it warms has been releasing a lot of methane. Watch a show of them drilling holes in the ice and lighting the gas.
I read a lot in here about the CO2 in the atmosphere but the Oceans have been absorbing a lot and it is not known how much but we see the effects or some of us do.
Maybe we can stop drilling for oil and just capture and use the methane that's being added anyway?
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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by wineboyrider » Aug 02 2019 9:09pm

ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Aug 02 2019 10:17pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Aug 02 2019 8:28pm
Maybe we can stop drilling for oil and just capture and use the methane that's being added anyway?
That would help! But like capturing landfill emissions, it's a lot of area with a small concentration of released gas. So lots of pipes and membranes for little gas.

Down here they designed the Miramar landfill with that in mind, and collect enough methane to run a 10MW gas turbine. But they estimate they are capturing less than 25% of the CH4.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Aug 02 2019 10:24pm

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 02 2019 5:38pm
When they quote “estimated” 6 times, together with “ assumed” and “projected” ...all before it even gets to the introduction.....it tends to lose much of its scientific credibility (Science is not proven by consensus )
It's amusing to watch you try but fail to understand science.

It's "assumed" that the gravity on Venus is "projected" to be 8.87 m/s/s. We don't need to send a research team to Venus to prove it, that's the general "consensus" based on "scientific theory".

Just because there's no "proof" the gravity on Venus is 8.87m/s/s doesn't mean your opinion to the contrary holds any validity. If you want to dispute these "assumptions" and the "consensus" on the matter you still need to provide a reliable, alternate scientific "theory".

It's very easy to pick apart your arguments because you're not smart enough to follow what you are saying to a consistent logical conclusion. Or maybe you are you just choose not to. :mrgreen:

As usual you seem to have things completely backwards. "estimated", "assumed" and "projected" are very scientifically credible, whereas "exact", "known" and "determined" tend to be subjective overstatements. This shouldn't need explaining to anyone with just the basic of critical thinking skills.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Aug 02 2019 10:53pm

furcifer wrote:
Aug 02 2019 10:24pm
It's "assumed" that the gravity on Venus is "projected" to be 8.87 m/s/s. We don't need to send a research team to Venus to prove it, that's the general "consensus" based on "scientific theory".
And they did land a lander there (Venera 13) and its descent rate matched the expected gravity. But only within about 1%! It could be 8.78m/s^2 or 8.96m/s^2! No one knows! There's NO PROOF!
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Aug 03 2019 8:49am

billvon wrote:
Aug 02 2019 10:53pm
And they did land a lander there (Venera 13) and its descent rate matched the expected gravity.
Yah, but just one, that's not science. Haven't these NASA "scientists" ever heard of the scientific method? They need to send the exact same probe back to the exact same place with the exact same instruments, at the exact same time and measure the exact same rate of decent or it isn't repeatable. This isn't rocket science!

I hope making these same ridiculous arguments outside the context of climate science will make some people realize how foolish they really are.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Aug 03 2019 10:22am

Not Natural

Scientists link Europe heat wave to human-caused global warming

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/euro ... -1.4904410

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 04 2019 1:52pm

billvon wrote:
Aug 02 2019 10:53pm
And they did land a lander there (Venera 13) and its descent rate matched the expected gravity. But only within about 1%! It could be 8.78m/s^2 or 8.96m/s^2! No one knows! There's NO PROOF!
Its amusing to watch how far off topic you will go to in order to avoid answering a question and deflect attention from your shortcomings.
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 04 2019 9:18pm

Ok, if humans are not the cause of the explosive rise in CO2 what is? :!:
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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 05 2019 2:38am

I hope you alarmist’s still have your goggles and snorkels ready so you can breathe with your head in the sand , rather than accept this...
https://realclimatescience.com/2019/08/ ... -hot-past/
I will summarise it for those of you with a mental block on this issue..
...in brief , the USA has been cooling for 30+ Years, and the historic data was published to show that.
BUT, of course that fact does not sit easy with the desired CO2 theory , so the NOAA have “massaged” historic, ( and current) Data in various ways to convert a cooling trend into a warming trend, and reproduced historic records.
....Then they lubed it up, put a big sucker hook in it, disguised it in with a load of other “burley” .., and threw it out for for the alarmist bottom feeders to bite on ! :wink:
Oh !.... and there has been plenty of similar evidence revealed for Australian temp records. :roll:
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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 05 2019 2:45am

ZeroEm wrote:
Aug 04 2019 9:18pm
Ok, if humans are not the cause of the explosive rise in CO2 what is? :!:
s
It could be one of many possible sources, since human related emissions are only 5% of total annual CO2 emissions.
And of course it may not be increased emissions at all, but possibly reduced CO2 uptake by the various carbon “sinks” that adsorb atmospheric CO2 ?
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Aug 05 2019 5:16am

Ah some cranks blog! Of course! Why didn't the world's geographers and atmospheric chemists look there?!

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jimw1960   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jimw1960 » Aug 05 2019 8:15am

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 02 2019 5:38pm

Ahh ! So your “trillion “. has now become 600 Gt !,
Pity you couldnt just “man up” and admit you were wrong !...
.....without all this other distraction to try to cover up your bullsh1t.
I give up on your ignorant ass. I've never met a mind so closed by a political world view. If you look at the context of my original post (not even talking to you) it was relating to what it would be like if humans had never discovered and used fossil fuels. My comment was just an off the cuff statement that the Earth would not have had a trillion of carbon added to the atmosphere. If you don't think we are on track to exceed a trillion tons of carbon added to the atmosphere before we stop using fossil fuels, then you sir are a fool. And if you somehow think that will be good for humanity, you are an even bigger fool. Anyway, respond all you want, but I'm done with your ignorance.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Aug 05 2019 11:54am

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 05 2019 2:38am
...in brief , the USA has been cooling for 30+ Years, and the historic data was published to show that.
You've gone back to being a type 1 denier - "the climate isn't warming, stupid!" The reason you'll get laughed at isn't because scientists can prove you wrong - it's because anyone in the US can prove you wrong by their experiences over the last 30 years. Try telling someone in Barrow, Alaska that the climate's not getting warmer, as the lack of sea ice lets storms erode away their town.

I expect you to quickly flip-flop back to being a type 2 or 3 by dinner. Hard to keep up with your rapidly changing denial system.
--bill von

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jimw1960   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jimw1960 » Aug 05 2019 2:55pm

billvon wrote:
Aug 05 2019 11:54am
You've gone back to being a type 1 denier - "the climate isn't warming, stupid!" The reason you'll get laughed at isn't because scientists can prove you wrong - it's because anyone in the US can prove you wrong by their experiences over the last 30 years. Try telling someone in Barrow, Alaska that the climate's not getting warmer, as the lack of sea ice lets storms erode away their town.

I expect you to quickly flip-flop back to being a type 2 or 3 by dinner. Hard to keep up with your rapidly changing denial system.
It's amazing how he can't see his inconsistencies even when they are pointed out to him and the world is on fire all around him. He's probably also an anti-vaxxer and subscriber to a bunch of other conspiracy theories, like chemtrails.

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 05 2019 5:06pm

Started reading the link then 1933 (before AC) with the number 100F (unheard of in 1933) they were not used to hot days like we are now. It is 99F at the moment just came off of 100F. Give me a minute and I will see how many people are dying. Ok, I'm back not one death. This is our 4th or 5th day at 100F. 80 years ago in S.A. Texas we had 50 100F days in Ten years, now we have 50 100F days a year. Is that cooling or heating? Want to know about heat ask Amberwolf. I lived in Phoenix for 4 years, seen 126F for 3 weeks.

I have my own weather station don't rely on the news from the airport 20 miles away. Don't think I can down load the data but I can take pictures of the screen.
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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 06 2019 9:17am

ZeroEm wrote:
Aug 05 2019 5:06pm
80 years ago in S.A. Texas we had 50 100F days in Ten years, now we have 50 100F days a year.
That will vary depending on whose data set you look at.
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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Aug 06 2019 9:26am

billvon wrote:
Aug 05 2019 11:54am
You've gone back to being a type 1 denier - "the climate isn't warming, stupid!"
And you have remaind a useless mind reader who consistently attacks the messenger rather than address the actual message.
Its not my data, ...i simply put it up to give you an opportunity to expand your minds.
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 06 2019 10:49am

I have given up on changing peoples minds. Living in Texas where 99% believe we are just having an unusual year, every year. Where the solution for gun related deaths is more guns. The air pollution in the cities is killing more people every year and are told they have allergies. Texas talks about SAFE levels of lead and asbestos in our water. San Antonio news reports how dangerous ebikes/scouters are.
So to inform people how cheap EV's are to own and no you don't need a 300 mile range when you have never driven 300miles at one time in your life. All cars and trucks are hybrids. If coal is so great where did all the steam engines go and why is it turned into electricity. Why do people pay for fuel to haul around 2-3 tons of metal and plastic.

Just wondering?

One more thing, all your spent Nuclear fuel Texas wants it and we don't mind if you lose some of it in our cities as it's passing thru!
Last edited by ZeroEm on Aug 06 2019 10:51am, edited 1 time in total.
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