Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 21 2019 5:22pm

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 17 2019 11:47pm
CO2 is a greenhouse gas - fact.
Only one of many atmospheric gas’s with such apparent properties..some much more effective than CO2
So why the focus on CO2 ?
Because CO2 is the one we are steadily increasing. (Methane too, but it is less of an overall forcing.)
Higher concentrations of CO2 cause more heat to be retained - fact...
Well, No.! Its not a fact ,.... its a Hypothesis , a Theory that has never been proven or even demonstrated.
A “fact” is something you can demonstrate, measure, repeat, and get the same precise result over and over.
It is a fact. Run an experiment with a hot radiative body and increase the CO2 partial pressure around it, and it will stay warmer. Same precise result every single time. Science.
Again , No, just another Theory, based on a correlation ( and some very suspect data)
As you well know , just because GHG’s are increasing, and temperatures are increasing (your words) does not demonstrate that the GHG’ s are the cause. Its just a correlation .
It would be fun to see defense attorneys take your approach.

"Yes, my client fired a gun at the victim, the bullet striking him and penetrating his heart. But it is just the prosecutor's THEORY that it led to his death. People die of a lot of things. It's just coincidence that he died moments later. There's NO PROOF!"
Hmmm ? Lots of ideas, ..... But what makes you believe all of that could make any significant impact on the atmospheric CO2 level ?
Remove the sources of anthropogenic CO2, and the levels will stop increasing.
.... especially if you cannot clearly demonstrate how much of the CO2 is anthropogenic ?
We can very easily and clearly demonstrate how much of the CO2 is anthropogenic, as I have explained to you three times now.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Sep 21 2019 6:32pm

billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:22pm
Because CO2 is the one we are steadily increasing.....
..Let me correct you there..
“ Because CO2 is the one THAT IS steadily increasing”
.
billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:22pm
.... Run an experiment with a hot radiative body and increase the CO2 partial pressure around it, and it will stay warmer. Same precise result every single time. Science.
Wrong. No one has ever done that experiment in an open atmosphere. It is only a Hypothesis ...
....not even a tested Theory. !
.
billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:22pm
....
Again , No, just another Theory, based on a correlation ( and some very suspect data)
As you well know , just because GHG’s are increasing, and temperatures are increasing (your words) does not demonstrate that the GHG’ s are the cause. Its just a correlation .
It would be fun to see defense attorneys take your approach.

"Yes, my client fired a gun at the victim, the bullet striking him and penetrating his heart. But it is just the prosecutor's THEORY that it led to his death. People die of a lot of things. It's just coincidence that he died moments later. There's NO PROOF!"
Well the attorney might well submit that the client had no case to answer as the clients gun was only a replica with no bullets, and the autopsy showed the victim had died several months earlier from a heart attack !
Case dismissed !
Prosecutor to be jailed for false prosecution !
.
billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:22pm
....
Hmmm ? Lots of ideas, ..... But what makes you believe all of that could make any significant impact on the atmospheric CO2 level ?
.
billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:22pm
....
Remove the sources of anthropogenic CO2, and the levels will stop increasing....
More Theory and speculation, with absolutely no evidence to support it !
.... especially if you cannot clearly demonstrate how much of the CO2 is anthropogenic ?
.
billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:22pm
.... We can very easily and clearly demonstrate how much of the CO2 is anthropogenic, as I have explained to you three times now....
..And as i have replied, many times, that is just alarmist speculation.
Whilst the best analysis.. (isotopic).. shows that less than 20 ppm is anthropogenic.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 21 2019 7:03pm

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 21 2019 6:32pm
..Let me correct you there..
“ Because CO2 is the one THAT IS steadily increasing”
Nope. That we are increasing by burning fossil fuels. I know you hate facts, but there ya go.
Wrong. No one has ever done that experiment in an open atmosphere. It is only a Hypothesis ...
....not even a tested Theory. !
I said "Higher concentrations of CO2 cause more heat to be retained - fact." You disputed that. You now realize you are dead wrong and are trying to backtrack by adding things like "open atmosphere." Good luck with that!
As you well know , just because GHG’s are increasing, and temperatures are increasing (your words) does not demonstrate that the GHG’ s are the cause. Its just a correlation .
You can claim that. You test it by seeing if the stratosphere is cooling. It is. Therefore, surface warming due to increasing greenhouse gases is confirmed.
Well the attorney might well submit that the client had no case to answer as the clients gun was only a replica with no bullets, and the autopsy showed the victim had died several months earlier from a heart attack !
Yep. And you could claim that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

But facts matter. The actual autopsy that shows a bullethole in his heart actually matters, no matter how much you try to deny facts, or twist them to fit your political agenda. Of course, like good lawyers everywhere, you will try!
More Theory and speculation, with absolutely no evidence to support it !
Other than decades of scientific research, experimentation and proof, of course. All the stuff that gives you a rash.
Whilst the best analysis.. (isotopic).. shows that less than 20 ppm is anthropogenic.
Thank you for admitting that burning fossil fuels is increasing the CO2 concentration in our atmosphere. It's a start.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Sep 21 2019 7:52pm

billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 7:03pm
That we are increasing by burning fossil fuels.
“Science says”.. The anthropogenic component of the 410ppm of CO2 ,..is only 20ppm.!
Where has the rest of the increase come from ?
I said "Higher concentrations of CO2 cause more heat to be retained - fact." You disputed that. You now realize you are dead wrong and are trying to backtrack by adding things like "open atmosphere." Good luck with that!
You are talking about controlled enclosed experiments in a lab.
...i am talking about the real world in an unconstrained atmosphere where many other factors and effect come into play.
And , despite decades of study, there is still no empirically observed data showing a causal link from increased atmospheric CO2 and atmospheric temperature.
....That is “the science”.....FACT !
As you well know , just because GHG’s are increasing, and temperatures are increasing (your words) does not demonstrate that the GHG’ s are the cause. Its just a correlation .
...You test it by seeing if the stratosphere is cooling. It is. Therefore, surface warming due to increasing greenhouse gases is confirmed...
That is all just part of the same untested hypothesis.
Well the attorney might well submit that the client had no case to answer as the clients gun was only a replica with no bullets, and the autopsy showed the victim had died several months earlier from a heart attack !
Yep. And you could claim that climate change is a Chinese hoax.
Climate change is not a Chinese hoax, but the Anthropogenic CO2 story may well be !
billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 7:03pm
.....But facts matter. The actual autopsy that shows a bullethole in his heart actually matters, no matter how much you try to deny facts, or twist them to fit your political agenda. ...
Yes , facts do matter,..like the autopsy showed the victim was dead months before the alledged shooting.
......Or that CO2 has been scientificly and mathematically proven to have no causal relationship to planetary temperatures. :roll:
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sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Sep 21 2019 9:40pm

Interesting rebuttal by EIA as to why it is very difficult to predict future build out of wind and solar in the USA. New construction starts are completely dependent on whether the federal $0.023 feed in bonus is renewed or not. Coming to a complete standstill when it is not renewed. Which is what happened after 2008 right before the EIA issued their 2009 forecast that everyone started picking six years later for coming up way short. But then the incentive was renewed and the EIA revised their report later that same year which proved to be dead on six years later.
Read the facts here.
.
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/supple ... ctions.pdf
.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 21 2019 9:43pm

sendler2112 wrote:
Sep 21 2019 9:40pm
Interesting rebuttal by EIA as to why it is very difficult to predict future build out of wind and solar in the USA. New construction starts are completely dependent on whether the federal $0.023 feed in bonus is renewed or not.
Agreed. But I would point out that most oil, coal and gas extraction are subject to similar uncertanties, like renewal of the over-100% depletion allowance and cheap mineral leases.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 21 2019 9:47pm

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 21 2019 7:52pm
You are talking about controlled enclosed experiments in a lab.
Yep. Science, which proves that higher concentrations of CO2 cause more heat to be retained. This experiment can be repeated over and over, to prove the above statement is absolutely true - the same statement you denied not five posts ago.

But if you now admit that higher concentrations of CO2 cause more heat to be retained, then that is more progress!
Climate change is not a Chinese hoax, but the Anthropogenic CO2 story may well be !
You and your ilk deny so many things, it's hard to keep them all straight!

But again, thank you for admitting that anthropogenic emissions are increasing our CO2 partial pressures.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Sep 22 2019 1:19am

sendler2112 wrote:
Sep 21 2019 6:45am
I went with a de-growth theme
Slayer of bullshit: Vaclav Smil
.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/ ... economists
.
Well, it's good to see people from the thread go down to their local climate-strike.
I felt tempted my self to ebike up and have a look-see but I was feeling remarkably tired that day, stayed up too late the night before.

While I am not insulating this point of view on anyone here, and while we have gone of this topic before, I like to re-point it out any time I can, that is the problem I see in people who hold up anti-capitalism/pro-socialist signs is that there is a fair amount of proof that socialism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism ) isn't even a well-meaning ideology but a deliberate trojan horse used by the worse people known in history to simply grab power through its seductive ideas and like a lot of new regimes end up facilitating a process of killing an incredible amount of people as the only way to solve the regime's problems. https://youtu.be/vIeFt88Hm8s?t=6378

That Guardian article is interesting and I do have a Vaclav book that I am going to read.
I like how it points out that Japan still has capitalism but no mass-immigration and ultimately they have done fine, the stockmarket hasn't gone up etc but the quality of peoples lives is still good.
Shouldn't have to point out that without mass immigration all major western country population/cities would shrink and become more normal, property would cost less and the cost of living would be significantly cheaper and peoples lives and living standards would be better, but the people at the very top wouldn't be as wealthy, and that's the problem they do not like, as Akkad discussed here https://youtu.be/O5k7WdnuXrI?t=2943

Carl Tucker went on a rant about Japan about how nice it is with no filth etc at the train-stations
https://grabien.com/story.php?id=241113
^This video was all over YouTubers who talk about the uglier sides of the conversation a few months ago, but can't find them now, probably have been deleted by YouTube as (unprofitable) hate speech.

People who hold up pro-socialism signs prove that they get their knowledge of the world from movies, while most movies have traditionally demonized Hitler quiet effectively they ignore more complex stories that have killed more people like Stalin.
The easy absorbability of history/people should not be the determining factor of who or what is most evil, but for most people it is.
https://youtu.be/jhi2icRXbHo


This is why I like Dr Duke's point of view that socialism has caused the death of so many people that it is worthy of what could be considered conspiracy theories of why socialism exists https://www.bitchute.com/video/Exu6KyZGU3am/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was a little while ago there was a lithium battery electric aircraft crash, and to me every time I see the news on how great lithium-battery aircraft is etc I think about the limitations of lifecycles on lithium like how quadcopters beat the crap out of batteries because they require heavy discharge and the batteries get warm.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norw ... SKCN1V423N
Image
https://insideevs.com/news/366037/alpha ... -airplane/

Lithium Electric aircraft is only used for flight training to take off and land because of the short flight time, but its also obvious that the cells get the crap beaten out of them, thus the total life-cycles are very short.
I don't need to wait until the investigation of the accident is done to know it was the limitations of beating the crap out of lithium cells that caused the failure.
Panasonic_NCR20700A_2c_vs_3c.png
Panasonic_NCR20700A_2c_vs_3c.png (120.79 KiB) Viewed 290 times
So like the remarkable achievements of Hydrogen fuel-cell drones https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/mmc-uav ... ight-time/ we now are seeing it follow up in full-size aircraft.
https://www.hes.sg/hycopter

When using non-battery methods of transport like fuels, the more you use up of your fuel the lighter you are thus the further you can go as you run out of fuel, this is the very opposite of what happens with lithium-battery as your fuel-source.

HyFlyer Zero-Emission Hydrogen Fuel Cell Powered Aircraft Tests Set for Orkney--The project will culminate in a 250-300 nautical mile (NM) demonstration flight out of an airfield based in Orkney
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/hyflyer ... or-orkney/
And they are showing it off in the form of everything being done via renewables dream vision.
Image

Compared to new "battery news" the amount of new exciting news in Fuel-Cell is extreme, it makes lithium battery news look as exciting as "diesel fuel" news.

Technion Researchers Have Developed an Inexpensive, Environmentally Friendly & Safe #Hydrogen Technology-Tech improves the efficiency of hydrogen production to 98.7% energy efficiency
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/fuel-of ... echnology/

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/germany ... operation/
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/blue-wo ... l-factory/
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/iss-aer ... cylinders/

REACTOR TURNS CARBON DIOXIDE TO PURE LIQUID FUEL
https://www.futurity.org/carbon-dioxide ... r-2150442/
https://www.geek.com/news/researchers-t ... l-1802948/
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/reactor ... id-fuel-l/
Last edited by TheBeastie on Sep 27 2019 9:31am, edited 4 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Sep 22 2019 9:05am

TheBeastie wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:19am
While I am not insulating this point of view on anyone here, and while we have gone of this topic before, I like to re-point it out any time I can, that is the problem I see in people who hold up anti-capitalism/pro-socialist signs is that there is a fair amount of proof that socialism isn't even a well-meaning ideology but a deliberate trojan horse used by the worse people known in history to simply grab power through its seductive ideas and like a lot of new regimes end up facilitating a process of killing an incredible amount of people as the only way to solve the regime's problems.
"The Cambodian genocide (Khmer: ហាយនភាពខ្មែរ or ការប្រល័យពូជសាសន៍ខ្មែរ, French: Génocide cambodgien) was carried out by the Khmer Rouge regime under the leadership of Pol Pot, and it resulted in the deaths of approximately 1.5 to 2 million people from 1975 to 1979, nearly a quarter of Cambodia's 1975 population (c. 7.8 million).[1][2][3] The Khmer Rouge wanted to turn the country into a socialist agrarian republic, founded on the policies of ultra-Maoism.[4][5][6] In 1976, the Khmer Rouge changed the name of the country to Democratic Kampuchea. In order to fulfill their goals, the Khmer Rouge emptied the cities and forced Cambodians to relocate to labor camps in the countryside, where mass executions, forced labor, physical abuse, malnutrition, and disease were prevalent. This resulted in the death of approximately 25 percent of Cambodia's total population."
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
.

Strict Marxist Communism has often started with mass murder and ended in a string of inefficiency and corruption.
.
Democratic Socialism is not this and is already in place in different degrees throughout Europe. I am hopeful that the term "Democratic Socialism" can retain the current check on personal power through voting. "DEMOCRATIC"... Retain the efficiency and innovation of private ownership and a market. But begin to add in appropriate pricing signals to the market to reflect the cost/ value of inputs such as non-renewable resources that are being reduced from future (300,000,000 years) reuse by "entropy" ( a rough application of the concept can be stretched to include strategic elements, ie. Phosphorous, which is now mined from deposits at a certain, but diminishing ore grade, which will eventually become increasingly remote as the concentrated deposits on land are depleted and we are forced to try to get it back from river deltas and oceans after is passes through our food and biological systems). So again, improve the pricing signals for the sources. And phase in pricing signals for the costs of processing the wastes (ie. the other half of a Carbon tax)which are also currently missing. Ecosocial Economists have been telling us this since the 1970's (1800's?) but it is not expedient to right now to growth (then). And we find ourselves in converging crises. Complacency now, then panic.
.
The SOCIALISM aspect would refer not to public ownership of everything and its attendant inefficiency, but to additional pro-social levers on the market to make the distribution of social surplus more equitable since right now the owners of production have all of the power to keep a vastly disproportionate amount of the profits (The average CEO of a corporation earns 380 times that of the AVERAGE employee. 1% of Americans take home 24% of the annual earnings and have acquired 40% of the wealth. And the numbers are obviously much more skewed on a world basis). Progressive taxation would provide essentially de facto maximum and minimum incomes with a job guarantee and collective labor bargaining, basic water, food, housing, health care, education, ect. For up to two children per female. Or whatever average the tecnocratic inputs to the decision making process that we already use for many other market decisions comes up with for a sustainable, steady state economy where the goal is to get to a place where nothing is used faster than it can be reused or renewed.

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Sep 22 2019 1:27pm

A complication in any major political economic shift away from a Laissez Faire free market system is trying to get a world level recognition of the need and world level coordinated transition so that there is no opportunity for any one country to offer multinational corporations a reduced tax rate spurring a race to the bottom which breaks the deal and allows the corporations to continue abusing labor and pillaging natural resources from the cheapest markets that are desperate and struggling to get enough money just to feed their populations. Which is the situation we have now.

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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Sep 24 2019 12:49am

If I may distill the last 200 pages into two world views -

I am motivated to make these decisions for the greater good of all others, not just me.
Or
I am motivated to make these decisions for the exclusive benefit of myself and my tribe, screw the others.

The claim that we should exploit our abundant fossil fuel reserves so others can benefit is fraught - many others might enjoy a higher standard of living for a while, but the atmosphere and the land are now scarred from the process. Moreover, the resource is finite and the tragedy of the commons kicks in. All the while, a handful of operators are enjoying vast wealth as a result of taking that risk.

Many indigenous cultures work on a principle of net good. If one does well, it was at the expense of others. Therefore it is upon the recipient of good fortune to share it with those who didn't. This is completely at odds with western liberalism, but it does ensure nobody is left out. Societies where personal wealth and accumulation is revered, you have vast disparity between those who have and those who haven't. Progress may be made as a result, but the only ones who truly benefit from that progress are those who already had it good.

Read anything from Jared Diamond for some more insight.

Those who have done well out of fossil fuels are upset at the prospect of having to give up their precious.

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   10 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Sep 24 2019 5:12pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:19am

I don't need to wait until the investigation of the accident is done to know it was the limitations of beating the crap out of lithium cells that caused the failure.
i repeat here what i pointed out to physluke in response to his gizmag feature where he pontificates on future electric flight.
the ionosphere IS the battery.
you only need to carry a big enough pack to get up there then recharge.
USAF has this for at least 30 years.
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 24 2019 5:34pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:19am
While I am not insulating this point of view on anyone here, and while we have gone of this topic before, I like to re-point it out any time I can, that is the problem I see in people who hold up anti-capitalism/pro-socialist signs is that there is a fair amount of proof that socialism isn't even a well-meaning ideology but a deliberate trojan horse used by the worse people known in history to simply grab power through its seductive ideas and like a lot of new regimes end up facilitating a process of killing an incredible amount of people as the only way to solve the regime's problems.
Seemed to do a good job during the Apollo program. And only killed three people. (Unless the Apollo program was a Trojan horse that will, any day now, reveal its true evil intent.)
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Sep 24 2019 6:29pm

billvon wrote:
Sep 24 2019 5:34pm
TheBeastie wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:19am
While I am not insulating this point of view on anyone here, and while we have gone of this topic before, I like to re-point it out any time I can, that is the problem I see in people who hold up anti-capitalism/pro-socialist signs is that there is a fair amount of proof that socialism isn't even a well-meaning ideology but a deliberate trojan horse used by the worse people known in history to simply grab power through its seductive ideas and like a lot of new regimes end up facilitating a process of killing an incredible amount of people as the only way to solve the regime's problems.
Seemed to do a good job during the Apollo program. And only killed three people. (Unless the Apollo program was a Trojan horse that will, any day now, reveal its true evil intent.)
Sorry bill, have you got a new supply of silly smoke, or just practicing random sentence construction again.
Please explain what you are on about , because you have just suggested the Apollo program was sporned by a Socialist ideology. ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 24 2019 7:32pm

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 24 2019 6:29pm
Sorry bill, have you got a new supply of silly smoke, or just practicing random sentence construction again.
Please explain what you are on about , because you have just suggested the Apollo program was sporned by a Socialist ideology. ?
Nope. Not just a socialist ideology. Socialist beginning to end.

The definition of socialism is "government control of the means of production and distribution." The government controlled 100% of the production of every bit of Apollo hardware and directed its distribution. Also the case for the US military, 99.9% of the US road system, the CDC, air traffic control etc etc. Heck, even the Veteran's Administration, the organization that operates all those evil VA hospitals, is 100% socialist.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Sep 24 2019 9:48pm


sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Sep 24 2019 9:49pm

In case you didn't know Greta, here is a full interview to get acquainted with the next Nobel prize winner.
.
https://youtu.be/Dgi30Wy_V74
.

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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Sep 24 2019 11:56pm

sendler2112 wrote:
Sep 24 2019 9:49pm
In case you didn't know Greta, here is a full interview to get acquainted with the next Nobel prize winner.
.
https://youtu.be/Dgi30Wy_V74
.
She is amazing, and has a gift. And that gift includes the incredible ability to trigger middle-aged white men from the developed world into realising how puny, self-centred and mean they are. They deal in cynicism, she deals in absolutes. They have nothing but loathing, while she (and what she represents) has youthful enthusiasm. Civil disobedience about all we're left with now.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jimw1960 » Sep 25 2019 9:30am

sendler2112 wrote:
Sep 24 2019 9:49pm
In case you didn't know Greta, here is a full interview to get acquainted with the next Nobel prize winner.
.
https://youtu.be/Dgi30Wy_V74
.
She is a prophet. Sadly, history has not been very kind to prophets.

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   10 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Sep 25 2019 1:49pm

she's a shill not a prophet.
you don't get to step on the world stage without a puppet-master hiding behind and exploiting a suitably appealing pathetic face.


SaskPower shuts off net metering program due to overwhelming demand
https://globalnews.ca/news/5926492/sask ... _referrer=
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 25 2019 4:46pm

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote:
Sep 25 2019 1:49pm
she's a shill not a prophet.
She's neither.

A shill is a mouthpiece for someone else. She's been pretty clear that she's not interested in doing that, and doesn't speak for anyone else.

A prophet brings a new viewpoint and gathers people to it. Her viewpoint is hardly new.
--bill von

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Sep 25 2019 5:26pm

jimw1960 wrote:
Sep 25 2019 9:30am
sendler2112 wrote:
Sep 24 2019 9:49pm
In case you didn't know Greta, here is a full interview to get acquainted with the next Nobel prize winner.
.
https://youtu.be/Dgi30Wy_V74
.
She is a prophet. Sadly, history has not been very kind to prophets.
Let me help correct your spelling ....”She is a PUPPET..” !
If you look beyond her pigtails when she speaks, or in public appearances you will see a young woman with long brown hair, never far from her side..
That is Luisa Neubuer, her “handler” ...and a member of the Bono/Gates/Soros “One” organisation.
They would appear to be orchestrating Greta’s appearances.... (in simple terms, Pulling her strings” )
Of course, i realise all cults, such as your own “alarmist cult” , crave for a “Prophet” to feed them false hope.
You may wish to see her as a prophet, but what i see is an autistic child with learning difficulties, who has been manipulated and mislead to the point of total fear by adults who should be protecting her.
Her parents should be prosecuted for child abuse...but of course they will uses Greta’s popularity as a defence against any critisism .
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Sep 25 2019 6:30pm

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 25 2019 5:26pm
That is Luisa Neubuer, her “handler” ...and a member of the Bono/Gates/Soros “One” organisation.
When did they first meet or first make contact?
.
I have personal handlers and groomers. Buckminster Fuller, Donella Meadows, Herman Daly, Tom Murphy, David MacKay, Richard Heinberg, Nate Hagens, Daniel Christian Wahl, George Monbiot, Jason Hickel, a dozen more that I can't name off of the top of my head without looking through my books.
.
Great people stand on the shoulders of giants.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Sep 25 2019 8:18pm

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 25 2019 5:26pm
If you look beyond her pigtails when she speaks, or in public appearances you will see a young woman with long brown hair, never far from her side..
That is Luisa Neubuer, her “handler” ...and a member of the Bono/Gates/Soros “One” organisation.
Neubuer is a fan. Lots of people have them. It comes with the territory.
but what i see is an autistic child with learning difficulties, who has been manipulated and mislead to the point of total fear by adults who should be protecting her.
She is an autistic child with learning difficulties who is speaking her mind, and is being crucified by small-minded conservatives who are terrified that her message will resonate.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Sep 25 2019 10:00pm

billvon wrote:
Sep 21 2019 9:47pm
Hillhater wrote:
Sep 21 2019 7:52pm
You are talking about controlled enclosed experiments in a lab.
Yep. Science, which proves that higher concentrations of CO2 cause more heat to be retained. This experiment can be repeated over and over, to prove the above statement is absolutely true - the same statement you denied not five posts ago.

But if you now admit that higher concentrations of CO2 cause more heat to be retained, then that is more progress!
Climate change is not a Chinese hoax, but the Anthropogenic CO2 story may well be !
You and your ilk deny so many things, it's hard to keep them all straight!

But again, thank you for admitting that anthropogenic emissions are increasing our CO2 partial pressures.
On the subject of taking CO2 and it's ability to trap heat out of the laboratory and into the atmosphere:
https://phys.org/news/2015-02-carbon-di ... ffect.html

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