Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Jan 25 2020 8:27am

Nice link amberwolf. 118 earthquakes this year: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes ... %3Anull%7D
This is not related to heat but to Gasoline, they are small unless you lived close to one and it destroyed your home. There are a lot of side effects to Coal, Oil and Nuclear that are kept quite and this is just one.
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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 27 2020 8:42am

Another Obama Solar Company Burns Out
– DC Solar Owners Plead Guilty to Largest Ponzi Scheme in Eastern California History
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... a-history/
Maybe it would be a good idea to allow free market capitalism to run things and perhaps a working solar initiative will come into fruition that won’t cost the US government billions.
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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 27 2020 4:50pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Jan 25 2020 8:27am
. There are a lot of side effects to Coal, Oil and Nuclear that are kept quite and this is just one.
There are side effects. (consequences).. to every action we take, every energy source we tap into, etc.
The consequences of not having power from coal, oil, or Nuclear do not bear thinking about !
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Jan 28 2020 6:21am

Don't mind bearing it, just don't know enough. That is why I read this thread, welcome your comments. This is the one topic that bothers me the most in life and don't want to think about it in an echo chamber.
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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 28 2020 6:42am

ZeroEm wrote:
Jan 28 2020 6:21am
Don't mind bearing it, just don't know enough. ....
Do you mean you dont know enough of the consequences of not having coal, oil, gas, Nuclear etc, energy available ??...
.....but you dont mind bearing those consequences ?
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Jan 28 2020 6:46am

I live in Texas everyone needs to buy our Natural gas a lot cleaner than Coal that we do not sell. Fear of running out are you kidding, if people would just to bed at night we could cut the power use in half. What do you think?
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Jan 28 2020 6:50am

Just wish the pipe lines would stop blowing up had another explosion 3 days ago in Houston, TX. That is three in the last couple months (side effects).
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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 28 2020 10:26am

Fear of running out ?.
That is not an issue for several generation yet !
What you should fear is the consequences of having to live without ANY of the fossil or Nuclear energy sources if the environmental extreemists gain control of energy policy
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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Cephalotus » Jan 28 2020 10:39am

TheBeastie wrote:
Jan 21 2020 9:09am
...

I was just watching some paid-professional Renewables expert do a little speech at Davos, saying that India could easy build 40% renewables and be cheaper than building coal power stations like India currently plans to...
Fact is I am sure India would most certainly do that if RE was cheaper, I am sure they would LOVE to do whats cleaner and cheaper, but the fact is it's obviously not cheaper for them, or they would simply be doing it...
Well....

Image

The has been a comeback of coal in 2019, we will have to see if this is a one time effect (it takes some time to build power plants) and if the trend to more RE is still intact.

Capacity factor of coal power plants in India is around 60% and falling....

https://powermin.nic.in/en/content/powe ... -all-india

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Ianhill » Jan 28 2020 3:30pm

When ever we burn something we are looking for the perfect mix of fuel and air to get a stoichiometric value present for the complete combustion of the fuel source creating purely c02 (carbon dioxide simular to our breath) but when this figure is not perfect and it never is we then get added c0 (carbon monoxide), gas in general is cleaner due to the fact it's the easiest of the lot to ratio and get that good combustion factor that's why we vapuorize liquid fuels it's more dispersed and easier to ignite becuase it's ratios are more air and fuel than just fuel.

The fact is anything can be burned clean it's just a matter of having a very good system to get good equal values in the fire triangle. it's how we have cleaned cars up with electronic fuel injection and engine monitoring making timing advancements along with thermal improvements in other science disapline areas there has been a big change from a v8 clunker with 15mpg to a 4 cylinder more power and torque while getting 45mpg.

If we lower the nox emissions of cars further and create a fuel that is in a cycling process it's possible to be cleaner than current battery tech for the duration of the full cars life.

Coal is very difficult to feed in a fashion that give a very clean burn improvements have been made but it's still not a gas that can be portioned out better than Jesus feeding 2000 with 1 fish, mind they didn't say it was whale because that spoils the game.

Science is not the leading factor no more scare mongering and bullshit shouted from the roof tops seems to get the attention better, there's a paper here in UK daily express and the crap it spews out has no factual evidence and everyday is either a snow storm gales floods or droughts but people don't see that the next day is not upsetting and I can step outside no issues something's going on with media and goverment and I don't like it, scares me what levels of control they will attempt and just how stupid they think we are.

Shame is the general public really are quite slow to say the least, id be optimistic to say there's a 30/70% intelligence and rationality split and most are on the wrong end of the stick faithfully believing anything and everything they are told you can spot the real out there one's by the foil hats glaring even on a dull day.

And don't get me wrong we can't keep adding carbon or I'm I saying there's no global warming but I believe the best route forward to limiting the co2 output is to not full steam ahead in battery tech as we have becuase it's just not there yet as a whole and it doesn't fit every bag unlike a hydrogen based carbon fused liquid fuel sourced from renewable wind grid energy.

Granted the process of spilting water is energy heavy but once it's split by combining it back with carbon we actually gain energy back in the form of heat make the hydrogen game more efficient but adds cost, and there's the underlying factor to everyone's health and the way the goverments of the world will lead us forward to to give us the best quality of life but the best on the fiscal budget to make their party look appealing for election and that democratic and best chance developed country's have lmao were doomed in the ling run, greedy species that sealed it's own downfall with little care for its fellow type and planet.

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jimw1960   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jimw1960 » Jan 29 2020 1:02pm

Meanwhile, while people keep arguing that it can't be done, entire countries are doing it.

"Scotland to reach 100% renewables in time to host 2020 climate summit"

https://reneweconomy.com.au/scotland-to ... qQdwSu-vH8

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Ianhill » Jan 29 2020 1:12pm

jimw1960 wrote:
Jan 29 2020 1:02pm
Meanwhile, while people keep arguing that it can't be done, entire countries are doing it.

"Scotland to reach 100% renewables in time to host 2020 climate summit"

https://reneweconomy.com.au/scotland-to ... qQdwSu-vH8

PMSL at this one how is the data gonna be shown to prove that I'll never know.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

There's the true facts for UK live 30% and that's real good in my eyes from where we have came in little time we made a big change but to gather 70% in a few months no way perhaps they plan to hold the event 100% renewables and they hope for a sunny windy British summer's day, there's occasions the grid goes 100% clean but for the total of the year its insignificant and definatly not 100% its more like 1% few days in a year at best.
How Scotland can distance themselfs from UK when the mainlands grid is all connected and in snyc plus we all take a helping hand from Frances nuclear effort, and to top that off Scotland has north sea oil and gas so that link is total garbage and just the type of crap I talked about in my last post no honesty in journalists for a long time but lately they have no shame.
When the climate people meet maybe they should hike or bike rather than jet around the world spreading crap and pollution.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 29 2020 10:30pm

jimw1960 wrote:
Jan 29 2020 1:02pm
Meanwhile, while people keep arguing that it can't be done, entire countries are doing it.

"Scotland to reach 100% renewables in time to host 2020 climate summit"

https://reneweconomy.com.au/scotland-to ... qQdwSu-vH8
“ Entire countries” ..!!
Jim, do you know what the electricity consumption is in the “Entire Country” of Scotland ??
..its 37 TWh /yr, or an average of 4.2GW !......less than some cities. :shock:
Further, Scotland already has over 11 GW of RE generation ( wind and Hydro), near THREE times it consumption, but somehow only manages to provide 75% of its electricity needs from them ??
..( just highlights the lousy CF of wind farms ! )
In order to meet that 100% RE target, Scotland would need to bring another 3-4GW on stream pretty quickly, ...
...and prey that the wind blows when its needed !
But they wont(cannot), so they will just have to fudge the figures and borrow some RE feeds from the UK or Europe.
So , jim, if Scotland doesnt manage to make that 100% RE for the conference, will you conceed that current RE generation technology just doesnt cut it !
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Jan 30 2020 12:16am

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/libe ... e-property

Interesting read on libertarianism, and how it has few answers in regards to managing the atmosphere's waste.

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Jan 30 2020 3:38am

It's pretty hot Australia wide right now, including Melbourne, so its a good time to see how South Australia with its large Wind setup is doing...

The most interesting thing I can see (which I have seen before) is the "Big Telsa Battery" (called the Hornsdale Power Reserve) data on some pro-renewable energy web-sites look a bit cooked, in that it looks like its doing more than it really is..
For the most part I haven't seen a pro-renewables energy reporting website where I felt the data was at least a bit cooked in the favour of Renewables.

Most notable is OpenNem
https://opennem.org.au/energy/sa1/
Their South Australia data is currently reporting that the big famous Telsa battery in SA is discharging at 54MW (light blue colour). Also note that South Australia is currently running/burning diesel generators at 240MW so about 8 times as much energy coming from diesel as the wind and sun dies down and they dont have enough gas electricity generation.

Actually this is above average honesty in energy reporting for OpenNem, as I have noticed they frequently just turn off reporting all together during times when South Australia renewables generation is looking crappy.
And yes that number of $4,981 per MWh of power is real.
2020-01-30 (6).png
2020-01-30 (6).png (81.82 KiB) Viewed 638 times
The FAR more detailed https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/ website reports just a peak discharge of 30MW for the Tesla Battery (at the exact same time point where OpenNem is reporting 53MW), 30MW is official discharge max limit unless the government decides there is an emergency and they need to discharge even higher, which has never happened.
Most mainstream media tend to report the big Tesla battery in SA as if it is basically powering the whole of SA single handily, but in reality, the Tesla battery contribution is so small it's hard to even see, even when OpenNem's data is almost doubled than what the Tesla battery is really putting out.
https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/
No matter where you look its only 30MW maximum discharge.. labelled "Battery Discharging: 30MW"
2020-01-30 (7).png
2020-01-30 (7).png (104.21 KiB) Viewed 638 times
Electricitymap is reasonably accurate when it comes to some data, that being electricity generation by source, it's uselessly inaccurate for "installed capacity". ElectricityMap.org has been reporting that SA has been using a fair amount of diesel generation.
https://www.electricitymap.org/?wind=fa ... emote=true
Last edited by TheBeastie on Jan 30 2020 10:07pm, edited 4 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 30 2020 7:52am

The Hornsdale Battery is totally trivial in terms of backup supply or “peak support” .
Its primary function and major income earnings is from providing Frequency Control and Ancilliary Services (FCAS), which have become critical for the SA grid following the decommissioning of the big coal turbine generators.and the introduction of wind farms.
Smart business thinking by the Hornsdale Windfarm operators, help create a problem whilst earning income, then get paid again to help solve the problem.
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Jan 30 2020 8:02pm

Since the bipartisan goal was to decarbonise the state's electricity generation, then it's a problem worthy of being surmounted.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 31 2020 12:17am

If the goal was to "decarbonise" their electricity, they have failed miserably.
They may have eliminated their own coal generators, but now they have to import power from Victoria (coal fired), burn a LOT of gas , and even now have to run those DIESEL fueled turbines , to keep the lights on.
All that , and the highest electricity prices in the country !
Congratulations SA !
The generation mix in SA today...
Image
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Jan 31 2020 12:47am

Still a fair chunk of wind energy, and they are exporting a little to the east.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 31 2020 12:58am

"a fair chunk" ? .....you are easy to please my friend.
and they are exporting from Gas generation, not suplus RE !
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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Jan 31 2020 11:18pm

These TeslaCharts Chartcast interviews have been very interesting to listen too, created by https://twitter.com/TESLAcharts

The latest podcast "Episode #8: @TiffanyPhoto1 - Tesla Solar Victim", is a bone-chilling account of one solar customer’s experience with Tesla Energy. If you are unfamiliar with the dark side of Tesla this podcast will help.
https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/758369

Probably the most interesting of these podcasts for me has been the two "Aaron Greenspan" episodes, these are an interview with a guy who went to Harvard alongside Mark Zuckerberg and worked on a Facebook system at Harvey and complained to Mark Zuckerberg that his Facebook system had way too much personal information and was generally unethical and abandoned his Facebook goals he had himself.

It's a remarkable little personal story about how he became a kind of "legal version of Julian Assange", and runs a company that pays small legal costs under the freedom of information act to force unavailable documents into the eyes of the public, by playing their own legal games and just paying the annoying fees and processes to make documents that taxpayers have ultimately paid for available to the public and on his website.
His website is called https://www.plainsite.org/
And because Tesla/Elon Musk has been brushing with the government with dodgy dealings he has been acquiring a lot of normally dirty unavailable legal documents on Tesla/Elon Musk and releasing them, not for any financial gain or spite, but rather its simply what he does as he believes in transparency.


So not all these people are Tesla shorters, the most well known vocal shorter seller Mark B. Spiegel runs a fund openly of only about 6million dollars, so he can't possibly affect Tesla's $100billion dollar stock valuation.
As far as I know, most short-sellers gave up in the last quarter as they saw the Tesla stock reaching "escape velocity", citing that its movements now have little to do with financial reality thus its pointless to try and short it.
"Escape Velocity" for Tesla essentially means its in such a huge valuation position that it can now issue new shares for more money anytime it wants and not noticeably affect the stock price.
https://twitter.com/markbspiegel/status ... 89220?s=20
Last edited by TheBeastie on Feb 01 2020 2:05am, edited 1 time in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

billvon   1 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Jan 31 2020 11:36pm

Yesterday Tesla released a better-than-expected earnings statement. The stock rose almost 10% - and Tesla doubters collectively lost $1.5B in their short positions. That's gotta hurt. Over the past year they've lost over $5.2 billion. As Ihor Dusaniwsky puts it very diplomatically - “Tesla’s short squeeze will probably shift into a higher gear as some short sellers re-evaluate their short thesis and begin to trim or close out their short exposure.”

Expect a dramatic increase in the Musk hate from that quarter as the Tesla shorts lick their wounds.
--bill von

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   100 MW

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Re: Green Tar Sand

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Feb 04 2020 5:47pm

suck on it treehuggerz.
those tailing ponds are here to stay.
with a massive expansion possibly being announced at the end of this month.
Jared Lazerson wrote:oil & gas producers in Alberta are probably producing more lithium feedstock (the very basic level) than any of the lithium companies all put together times ten.

who better to kind of design the renewables energy future than the guys that have been managing energy for the last hundred years.
i.e. oil companies ("managing" :pancake: )

good to see Tara Nelson managed to escape Yegreville.
altho would have thought she made it little further afield, if not Turanna then at least Moose Jaw.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1416343

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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Feb 04 2020 7:37pm

That means Albertans won't be as "emotionally balanced" since all the lithium carbonate has been extracted from the water.... :lol:

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Ianhill » Feb 05 2020 12:02am

billvon wrote:
Jan 31 2020 11:36pm
Yesterday Tesla released a better-than-expected earnings statement. The stock rose almost 10% - and Tesla doubters collectively lost $1.5B in their short positions. That's gotta hurt. Over the past year they've lost over $5.2 billion. As Ihor Dusaniwsky puts it very diplomatically - “Tesla’s short squeeze will probably shift into a higher gear as some short sellers re-evaluate their short thesis and begin to trim or close out their short exposure.”

Expect a dramatic increase in the Musk hate from that quarter as the Tesla shorts lick their wounds.

Tesla valuation around $150 billion and delivered around 500 k cars
Toyota "" $225 billion 9M cars
Volkswagon "" $100 billion 11M cars

Spot the difference ones value is in what it has delivered the odd one out has it's value evaluated on what it is attempting to deliever.
If I walked into dragons den with tesla figures I'd get smashed about silly but use that same effort of taking preorders and hyping cars that will come long down the line on the futures investment market and people are seeing it as a safe investment as electric is inevitable, petrol cars have around a 15 year production run left in UK with current attitude and it's all over so the next manufacturer's to fully adopt will see keen investment over the next few years too and VW has adopted this stance so their future is open to become much stronger over the next half decade.

Tesla is in an awkward position as I see it they have a strong market position and have a future cars market with good demand but so far I see only expensive cars and not really as reliable as the claims of very little maintenance makes out, for me they need to deliever on the lorry, truck and roadster then concentrate on a sub division brand to have a cheap hot hatch moment that doesn't have the same pedigree of the tesla, like Lexus from toyota etc and push that as the largest production to help keep profitability, low price, forefill demand and making a stronger position in the markets top to bottom but for a futures investment market I think it would not have so much impact if the headlines read " Mr musks makes normal everyday electric car" even if it is cheap and has 150kw charging most stupid journalist won't see its shine and prefer reporting whacky headlines like 0-60 in 2 seconds when is that really needed does it make the roads a safer place ?

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