EV Myths - add your own!

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
ChargePoint   100 mW

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EV Myths - add your own!

Post by ChargePoint » Jul 15 2018 4:54pm

There are a lot of misconceptions about EVs out there. Here are 3 we see circulating most often.

MYTH 1: EVs don’t have enough range
  • Reality: EVs don't go as long between charges as gas cars go between fill-ups, but they don’t have to. The average U.S. driver travels only 30 miles a day, well within the range of any EV, and those with long-range driving needs have their pick of EVs with 125+ miles of range, like the current Chevy Bolt EV or Tesla Model 3 and 2018 Nissan LEAF or Hyundai Ioniq.
MYTH 2: EVs aren't environmentally friendly because electricity comes from coal
  • Reality: EVs cut greenhouse gas emissions in half, no matter how the energy used to charge them is produced. If you live in a state that produces most of its energy from renewable sources, you can reduce your emissions even more. EVs waste less of the energy they consume.
MYTH 3: It takes too long to charge
  • Reality: Charging an EV takes only a few seconds: the time it takes to plug the car in before you go do something else. :) Just like a cell phone, an EV charges while you’re busy doing other stuff. Cars spend over 90% of the time parked, so we have more than enough time to charge.
  • Fun ChargePoint Fact: our network data shows that EV drivers stay parked for 50% longer than they need to charge, on average.

Additional resources:
  • We made a free sustainability calculator if you'd like to find out how much environmental impact you have by going electric. Plus, it's a good resource to share with friends who are considering going electric.

Share your own below! What are some common EV myths you'd like to see busted? :cool:
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by markz » Jul 15 2018 9:29pm

The classic Myth of one motor being called a Torque Motor and the same motor but a different winding being called a Speed Motor.
= False!


There is a huge thread on that, here at Endless Sphere.
I linked the last post in the thread for your viewing pleasure.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907&hilit=MYTH+sp ... 5#p1137818

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by docw009 » Jul 15 2018 9:35pm

Lead acid batteries (for your golf cart EV) if placed on a concrete floor will self discharge faster than the same battery on a wooden shelf.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 15 2018 11:51pm

Here are a few..
* EVs are economical to own and run
* EVs are cheap to service.
* EVs do not need a transmission.
* EVs will outnumber ICEs within 10 years
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by jonescg » Jul 16 2018 1:41am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 15 2018 11:51pm
Here are a few..
* EVs are economical to own and run
* EVs are cheap to service.
* EVs do not need a transmission.
* EVs will outnumber ICEs within 10 years
Myths or truths? Can't quite tell with you HH ;)

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 16 2018 1:56am

Im sure you have your own view on those points jonescg :wink: :wink:
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by alan » Jul 16 2018 7:07am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 15 2018 11:51pm
Here are a few..
* EVs are economical to own and run
* EVs are cheap to service.
* EVs do not need a transmission.
* EVs will outnumber ICEs within 10 years
My i3 is dirt cheap to own and run, with the ONLY scheduled service being a brake-line flush every 2 years. It is now four years old, and has been in for two such services, plus one minor recall for reprogramming when it was new.

100% of my charging is in my garage, and adds about $15/mo. to my electric bill, which is less than half what my gasoline bill for my other car is, which gets driven less than half as much.

It has a differential and a fixed gear ratio between the motor and the differential. There is no transmission in the sense of a complex unit that varies gear ratios. It has no need for a transmission, as it does just fine making tons of fun very rapidly accelerating from zero to 94MPH.

You may be right that ICEs will still dominate in 10 years, but who knows. Battery technology has a long way to go before that is a likely reality, but for now, I need two cars, and one will most definitely be an EV.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by DanGT86 » Jul 16 2018 9:22am

Myths and misconceptions I run into being an EV enthusiast:

Lots of people are under the impression that lithium ion batteries are toxic waste and that there will be a huge disposal problem in the near future similar to nuclear waste. Dude talking to me about my nissan leaf actually said "What about the chemicals in those batteries? Ever heard of Chernobyl?"

Many also try to tell me that we'll fight wars over lithium resources the way we do with oil.

Electric cars explode during accidents or will surely electrocute passengers.

Electric cars will short out in the rain.

And the number one Myth I continually encounter is all the confusion about REGEN braking. Everyone is obsessed with it! First question I get about my leaf most of the time is "Does it recharge itself while you are driving?" or "Can you put a generator or alternator on it to get free energy?" I get the same questions about my ebikes. Being electric makes it magic for most people.

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   10 MW

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Jul 16 2018 8:56pm

the myth that recuperation isn't "worth it".
or even that regen braking alone without recupertion isn't worth it.

whatever dafuq worth it means.
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by ChargePoint » Jul 16 2018 10:45pm

markz wrote:
Jul 15 2018 9:29pm
There is a huge thread on that, here at Endless Sphere.
I linked the last post in the thread for your viewing pleasure.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907&hilit=MYTH+sp ... 5#p1137818
Thank you! 8)
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by neptronix » Jul 17 2018 8:12am

markz wrote:
Jul 15 2018 9:29pm
The classic Myth of one motor being called a Torque Motor and the same motor but a different winding being called a Speed Motor.
= False!
Amen.

First thing that came to mind for me was actually that high voltage / low amps somehow equals higher efficiency versus high amps / low volts.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by neptronix » Jul 17 2018 9:08am

DanGT86 wrote:
Jul 16 2018 9:22am
Myths and misconceptions I run into being an EV enthusiast:

Lots of people are under the impression that lithium ion batteries are toxic waste and that there will be a huge disposal problem in the near future similar to nuclear waste. Dude talking to me about my nissan leaf actually said "What about the chemicals in those batteries? Ever heard of Chernobyl?"

Many also try to tell me that we'll fight wars over lithium resources the way we do with oil.
I see big oil propaganda has been working out in your areas.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 17 2018 11:29am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 15 2018 11:51pm
Here are a few..
* EVs are economical to own and run
Lots of people here got on board with the recent Volt deal - $214 a month, $611 cashback. Ended up being $191 a month over the term of the lease.
* EVs are cheap to service.
Yes, they are. Zero maintenance on the Leaf I had for seven years. Zero. can't get much cheaper.
* EVs do not need a transmission.
None of my EV's have a transmission. Just a gearbox.
* EVs will outnumber ICEs within 10 years
Unlikely, other than in limited locales/countries.
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 17 2018 11:30am

DanGT86 wrote:
Jul 16 2018 9:22am
Many also try to tell me that we'll fight wars over lithium resources the way we do with oil.
We might. California might invade Wyoming. (Or Nevada; after all, they are closer.)
--bill von

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DanGT86   10 kW

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by DanGT86 » Jul 17 2018 12:34pm

neptronix wrote:
Jul 17 2018 9:08am
I see big oil propaganda has been working out in your areas.
Absolutely! Missouri os not exactly know for its green energy adoption.

People constantly remind me that my car indirectly runs on coal. I've also had diesel truck guys smoke me out intentionally at intersections.

Cool thing is I'm driving the electric car I always wanted and have a stable of ebikes I like so I'm probably happier that the EV haters😁

As far as wars over lithium go, batteries are very recycleable and the lithium isnt consumed to power the car the way fossil fuels are. So its not a fair comparison at all.

There will definetely be some changing geopolitical pressures as transportation evolves. Rare earth metals are a good example of this.

Bolivia has a enough Lithium to supply the worlds battery needs for a century but they don't have the infrastructure to mine and sell it all yet.

I'm sure there will be some growing pains but thats far from evidence that EVs are an idea not worth pursuing.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by markz » Jul 17 2018 10:31pm

Well I see nice looking professional websites that still propagate that myth, then I am not sure what to think of that company. What other misleading information are they spreading. I know Crystalyte is still doing it.

Time to google.
http://electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/enduro.html





neptronix wrote:
Jul 17 2018 8:12am
markz wrote:
Jul 15 2018 9:29pm
The classic Myth of one motor being called a Torque Motor and the same motor but a different winding being called a Speed Motor.
= False!
Amen.

First thing that came to mind for me was actually that high voltage / low amps somehow equals higher efficiency versus high amps / low volts.

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DanGT86   10 kW

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by DanGT86 » Jul 17 2018 10:37pm

Not exactly a myth but a misconception:
All bateries need to be kept full all the time and will develop a memory if you dont keep them topped off.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by major » Jul 17 2018 11:01pm

EVs are wimpy because they are silent. Everybody knows powerful fast cars are loud. Noise = power!

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 18 2018 12:05am

DanGT86 wrote:
Jul 17 2018 10:37pm
Not exactly a myth but a misconception:
All bateries need to be kept full all the time and will develop a memory if you dont keep them topped off.
That's an odd one. I think it surfaced during the time that nicads were used often, and they had a problem with lower than normal discharge voltages - if you didn't bring them to a low state of charge then charge them fully once in a while. The "memory" thing hasn't gone away, and people think lithium ion batteries have the same problem (which of course they don't.)
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 18 2018 1:31am

billvon wrote:
Jul 17 2018 11:29am
Lots of people here got on board with the recent Volt deal - $214 a month, $611 cashback. Ended up being $191 a month over the term of the lease.
It varies depends where you live, Gov rebates , tax concessions etc etc.
some places you can always get a "deal" on any car that they want to shift,.. others you are shafted.
Better to just compare manufacturer list prices..and you know how that pans out !
* EVs are cheap to service.
billvon wrote:
Jul 17 2018 11:29am
Yes, they are. Zero maintenance on the Leaf I had for seven years. Zero. can't get much cheaper.
i hope you mean zero cost, not zero maintenance ?
Most maintenance on modern cars is just inspection ( labour cost)..
you might avoid the cost ( free service deals, etc) , but you cannot avoid the maintenance.
.If you read a typical Service plan its 90% inspection...
...check tyres, brakes, air filters (pollen), windshield wipers, seat belts, fluid levels, (change brake fluid ?) , accessory drive belt tension ? , rotate tyres. wheel alignment, etc etc .
Most of those are still needed on any car, but of course you would not need the oil and filter change !
However, i am surprised that EV battery condition would not be checked occasionally ?
so if you skipped most of that for 7 years , that is not smart.
( even 7 years with no change of tyres is hard to believe ?) ..maybe you just didnt drive it anywhere ?

billvon wrote:
Jul 17 2018 11:29am
None of my EV's have a transmission. Just a gearbox.
Word semantics :roll:
Every EV has a transmission . it may not be a multi speed transmission, but a single speed transmission is still a box full of gears and shafts and bearings in an oil bath.
( ask Tesla owners who had several of them changed out due to bearing fails)
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by brumbrum » Jul 18 2018 5:02am

One i havent heard for a few years... Good chance of electric shock through your bike frame.
My NYX and cromotor build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615
My LMX 161 dirt bike build
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94074

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by alan » Jul 18 2018 6:58am

neptronix wrote:
Jul 17 2018 8:12am
markz wrote:
Jul 15 2018 9:29pm
The classic Myth of one motor being called a Torque Motor and the same motor but a different winding being called a Speed Motor.
= False!
Amen.

First thing that came to mind for me was actually that high voltage / low amps somehow equals higher efficiency versus high amps / low volts.
Heat loss is efficiency loss, and heat loss increases exponentially with increasing current. It's an (I^2)*R thing. However, this truly is a myth when it comes to superconducting motors, where R=0.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by DanGT86 » Jul 18 2018 6:59am

brumbrum wrote:
Jul 18 2018 5:02am
One i havent heard for a few years... Good chance of electric shock through your bike frame.
Similar to that, lots of people are surprised to hear that the high voltage traction pack of an electric car is not chassis grounded like the 12v battery in an ICE vehicle.

That came up when my coworkers were asking me if my car would short out if driven in the rain.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by alan » Jul 18 2018 8:50am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 18 2018 1:31am
Word semantics :roll:
Every EV has a transmission . it may not be a multi speed transmission, but a single speed transmission is still a box full of gears and shafts and bearings in an oil bath.
( ask Tesla owners who had several of them changed out due to bearing fails)
Using the same word, transmission, for a box that has two to four gears on two shafts with a few bearings, and a box with dozens of gears and multiple shafts and bearings AND CLUTCHES AND BANDS AND ELECTRONICS AND HYDRAULICS and orders of magnitude greater complexity and servicing needs is a very false equivalency that goes far beyond semantics. Semantic games are for saying the same things different ways, not for saying very different things the same way.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by parajared » Jul 18 2018 9:59am

First thing that came to mind for me was actually that high voltage / low amps somehow equals higher efficiency versus high amps / low volts.
I was about to post that. It looks like you beat me to it.

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