EV Myths - add your own!

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 18 2018 11:04am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 18 2018 1:31am
It varies depends where you live, Gov rebates , tax concessions etc etc.
Absolutely. (True for all kinds of cars.)
i hope you mean zero cost, not zero maintenance ?
Most maintenance on modern cars is just inspection ( labour cost)..
you might avoid the cost ( free service deals, etc) , but you cannot avoid the maintenance.
.If you read a typical Service plan its 90% inspection...
...check tyres, brakes, air filters (pollen), windshield wipers, seat belts, fluid levels, (change brake fluid ?) , accessory drive belt tension ? , rotate tyres. wheel alignment, etc etc .
Changing BRAKE FLUID? Are you serious?

As for the rest, I replaced wipers once and tires once. Took a look at the brake pads while I was doing that. They were fine. (Regen braking means fewer brake pads.) Nothing else. No "seat belt" maintenance. No "accessory drive belt tension" because there's no accessory belt. No air filters. No wheel alignment. No fluids. No wheel alignment. Most "car maintenance" is due to auto dealers who want to make more money,
Most of those are still needed on any car, but of course you would not need the oil and filter change !
However, i am surprised that EV battery condition would not be checked occasionally ?
so if you skipped most of that for 7 years , that is not smart.
Oh, I checked it every time I got in the car. It's right there on the dash.
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 18 2018 5:42pm

DIY maintenance,...is still maintenance....You just ignor the cost and possibly void the warranty.
Most manufacturers (and brake fluid producers) recommend flushing and changing the brake fluid periodicly to remove any moisture content which causes corrosion in the system and poor braking performance.
https://insideevs.com/heres-nissan-reco ... -annually/
...and from the Leaf service manual (which you apparently didnt bother reading during those 7 years :shock: )
Image

Also from the Service manual..
EV Battery Usage Report
To maximize the life of your Li-ion bat- tery, have the EV Battery Usage Re- port generated and reviewed with you. Review of the EV Battery Usage Report is required as a condition of EV battery warranty. . .....
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billvon   1 MW

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 18 2018 5:47pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 18 2018 5:42pm
...and from the Leaf service manual (which you apparently didnt bother reading during those 7 years . . .
I read it; I just didn't want to waste money on that stuff. (And I never needed it.)

I bet car dealerships love you! You bring your car in every 7500 miles to the dealer for an oil change, a cabin air filter change and a spare tire rotation, right?
Most manufacturers (and brake fluid producers) recommend flushing and changing the brake fluid periodicly . . . .
And let me guess. Air filter manufacturers recommend changing your air filters VERY frequently to maintain optimum filtering. It has nothing to do with the fact that they make money selling air filters.
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 18 2018 7:01pm

Only a fool would ignor the warranty conditions on a new car..especially one that could require a $10k + battery replacement. Let alone the numerous safety checks.
Tesla have similar $600+ annual service requirements (also involving brake fluid replacement + dismantleing and lubrication of braking components.
The point is ...the MYTH that EVs do not require expensive servicing ,..is just that ..a MYTH !

Sure , our "new" (2017) ICE car goes back to the dealer for its annual ($300 capped price) service , ....why not ?
...but our 2nd ICE only in a service shop once each year for its "Roadworthy" official check ($30). Other than that its the usual tyres, batteries, brakes , oil change, when required, either DIY or at the local mech shop if i dont have time.
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John in CR   100 GW

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by John in CR » Jul 18 2018 11:18pm

Hillhater,

You're off you're rocker.
--EV's are extremely economical to operate and many are economical to own. My EV's have saved well over $2,000 each year for the past decade making my favorite hobby of all time absolutely free. They're cheaper to operate than a pedal bicycle, making them the most cost efficient form of land transportation man has devised. Also, I'm looking into some mini electric pickups that cost only $4,500 new...Is that economical enough for you?
--The overwhelming majority of EVs in the world have no transmission at all, because they have direct drive hubmotors. China alone puts over 10 million new ones on the road each year for the past decade.
--The maintenance required for a properly built EV is so minimal that calling it "no maintenance" is perfectly reasonable, and no, inspection is not maintenance, it's inspection.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by amberwolf » Jul 18 2018 11:43pm

brumbrum wrote:
Jul 18 2018 5:02am
One i havent heard for a few years... Good chance of electric shock through your bike frame.
Depending on how you wire it, there *is* a chance of that, under the right (wrong) conditions. ;)

If it's built right, though, not much chance of it happening by accident.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 19 2018 12:13am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 18 2018 7:01pm
Only a fool would ignor the warranty conditions on a new car..especially one that could require a $10k + battery replacement. Let alone the numerous safety checks.
Based on the acumen you've shown here, I will take that as a compliment!
The point is ...the MYTH that EVs do not require expensive servicing ,..is just that ..a MYTH !
It is in fact true. I've proven it. Sure, you can go back every other weekend for a $300 service, and they will be happy to take your money, and do a "comprehensive 27 point safety check" along with rotating the lug nuts, floor mats and other critical maintenance. That doesn't mean it's needed.
Sure , our "new" (2017) ICE car goes back to the dealer for its annual ($300 capped price) service , ....why not ?
Why not indeed? You have an ICE with its lengthy list of things to be changed, fixed, checked, tightened etc. Probably a good call on your part.
..but our 2nd ICE only in a service shop once each year for its "Roadworthy" official check ($30). Other than that its the usual tyres, batteries, brakes , oil change, when required, either DIY or at the local mech shop if i dont have time.
I do the same DIY service - just without the batteries, brakes, oil change, filters, hoses, belts, spark plugs etc that an ICE car needs.
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 19 2018 1:42am

John in CR wrote:
Jul 18 2018 11:18pm
Hillhater,
--The overwhelming majority of EVs in the world have no transmission at all, because they have direct drive hubmotors.
John, we are talking about EVs..not bicycles or scooters !.... car equivalents.

billvon wrote:
Jul 19 2018 12:13am
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 18 2018 7:01pm
The point is ...the MYTH that EVs do not require expensive servicing ,..is just that ..a MYTH !
It is in fact true. I've proven it. Sure, you can go back every other weekend for a $300 service, and they will be happy to take your money, and do a "comprehensive 27 point safety check" along with rotating the lug nuts, floor mats and other critical maintenance. That doesn't mean it's needed.
The only thing you have proven is that you are prepared to ignor manufacturers service requirements.
We could all just ignore the manufacturers recommendations, void the warranty, risk the failures, etc etc.. but the FACT is EV have service requirements much the same as any other car,
You may not have to buy plugs, or sump oil ..( but you may need battery coolant change, transmission oil , battery and charger checks !)..
Although most of them will only be inspection checks ( its called Preventative Maintenance ), as soon as the dealership logs a few hours labour for it ,..you are in for the same dollars.
.the MYTH that EVs do not require expensive servicing ,..is just that ..a MYTH !
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Punx0r » Jul 19 2018 2:55am

Unlike ICE, I've never heard of an EV requiring a timing belt change every 5 years and step 1 of that procedure was "remove engine from car".

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Valdior   100 µW

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Valdior » Jul 19 2018 6:13am

I have e-bike, and i think TOP1 myth is that e-bike riders charge their bikes by pedelling. (who doesn't know - it's unefficient way to waste your energy)
People frequently ask me this, i think they think in terms plug-in hybrid vehicles
Bike:
E-KROSS frame
QS V3 Custom Modified (4kW++)
KLS7230
2.1kWh (72V 30Ah Samsung INR18650-30Q)+Charger 10A
HLS (High level system) + Blynk :D

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by John in CR » Jul 19 2018 7:23am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 19 2018 1:42am
John in CR wrote:
Jul 18 2018 11:18pm
Hillhater,
--The overwhelming majority of EVs in the world have no transmission at all, because they have direct drive hubmotors.
John, we are talking about EVs..not bicycles or scooters !.... car equivalents.
A "vehicle" is simply a machine used to transport people and/or goods. An "electric vehicle" or EV is obviously one with an electric motor. It confounds me why so many around here try to force narrow definitions of everything. eg Bikes aren't most anything with 2 inline wheels, but instead are only the narrow subset of bikes that have pedals and can be propelled by leg power.

Had you tried to make your point by saying that the major car manufacturers are still trying to push the status quo by making electric cars as expensive as they can get away with, as well as making them as complicated as possible which in turn will make them more expensive to repair and service, then you'd get more agreement.

While electric cars are better than those powered by ICE's, they're still way too big and heavy. The norm of using vehicles that weigh thousands of pounds to typically transport one person is unsustainable for this planet. As related to transportation, a lot more has to change than just to stop spewing toxins out of a tailpipe. Realistically though the change away from so much of the world being car-centric will be so slow that we'll probably get airborne first, which will inherently force less resource waste, because being as small and light as possible is a forced design constraint.
Last edited by John in CR on Jul 19 2018 7:05pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 19 2018 8:01am

Punx0r wrote:
Jul 19 2018 2:55am
Unlike ICE, I've never heard of an EV requiring a timing belt change every 5 years and step 1 of that procedure was "remove engine from car".
And that is an ICE Myth ! :lol:
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Punx0r » Jul 19 2018 8:13am

What?

That many ICEs have timing belts?
Or that they require periodic replacement?
Or that some cars require the engine to be removed for this?

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 19 2018 12:23pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 19 2018 1:42am
The only thing you have proven is that you are prepared to ignor manufacturers service requirements.
We could all just ignore the manufacturers recommendations, void the warranty, risk the failures, etc etc.. but the FACT is EV have service requirements much the same as any other car
Again, no. I've owned cars, and done most of my own maintenance, all my life. ICE cars require oil changes regularly, and brake pads, belts, hoses, transmission fluid etc occasionally. EV's do not. They don't even require brake pads as often.
You may not have to buy plugs, or sump oil ..( but you may need battery coolant change, transmission oil , battery and charger checks !)..
You have no idea what you are talking about, and are wholly ignorant about EV's.
Although most of them will only be inspection checks ( its called Preventative Maintenance ), as soon as the dealership logs a few hours labour for it ,..you are in for the same dollars.
Which is why I do all that myself. For zero dollars.
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by ChargePoint » Jul 19 2018 12:33pm

major wrote:
Jul 17 2018 11:01pm
EVs are wimpy because they are silent. Everybody knows powerful fast cars are loud. Noise = power!
Fun fact, I have an old muscle car that I haven't driven in years and I've been thinking about having it converted to electric. I have to admit that it's hard to imagine driving it without the VROOM VROOM!
Join the EV revolution!

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by DanGT86 » Jul 19 2018 12:55pm

After driving my leaf for 2 years i now cant stand the feeling of automatic transmissions shifting. Its funny how soon you adapt. Hearing tires clawing for traction is fascinating in its own way.

Convert that car!

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 19 2018 1:04pm

DanGT86 wrote:
Jul 19 2018 12:55pm
After driving my leaf for 2 years i now cant stand the feeling of automatic transmissions shifting.
Yep. I drove my first EV in 1989. I remember thinking "this is how cars are supposed to work."
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 19 2018 5:18pm

billvon wrote:
Jul 19 2018 12:23pm
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 19 2018 1:42am
The only thing you have proven is that you are prepared to ignor manufacturers service requirements.
We could all just ignore the manufacturers recommendations, void the warranty, risk the failures, etc etc.. but the FACT is EV have service requirements much the same as any other car
Again, no. I've owned cars, and done most of my own maintenance, all my life. ICE cars require oil changes regularly, and brake pads, belts, hoses, transmission fluid etc occasionally. EV's do not. They don't even require brake pads as often.....
You are digging your hole deeper bill..
Why do you insist on ignoring the facts ?
Most EVs, have manufacturers service schedules.. (i posted the Leafs above, & Teslas is well known @$600+ PA)... that have to be met to ensure Warranty cover.
The detail checks and work may be different to an ICE, but the cost certainly is not.
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 19 2018 5:23pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 19 2018 5:18pm
You are digging your hole deeper bill..
Why do you insist on ignoring the facts ?
Have you ever owned an EV?
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by major » Jul 19 2018 6:37pm

My factory EV has needed 4 tires, 2 wiper blades, one headlamp bulb, and a positive auxiliary battery terminal repair due to corrosion (on the 12V lead acid, did myself, no cost) over 6 years and ~43,000 miles.

I call that pretty close to zero maintenance. Been thinking about transaxle lube change.

major

Oh yeah, I did have to inflate tires a few times. And wash it.

You know the best thing? NOT, never, ever stopping at the friggin gas station.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 19 2018 7:58pm

billvon wrote:
Jul 19 2018 5:23pm
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 19 2018 5:18pm
You are digging your hole deeper bill..
Why do you insist on ignoring the facts ?
Have you ever owned an EV?
By some definitions,..yes multiple ones !
Is there some "EV ownership" qualification required before commenting or posting manufactures service data ?
And actually its back to that myth of EV ownership being economical..
There are few EVs available in this part of the world..(BMW i3, Tesla, maybe a Leaf later this year,) , and those are at silly prices. i3,= $80k, Tesla , $100k++, There are no state or federal rebates, or tax incentives for EVs here.
That is basicly double the cost of any equivalent ice, so maybe you understand also why that other myth of EV taking over the world isnt going to happen just yet !
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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by DanGT86 » Jul 19 2018 10:10pm

My leaf was $8500USD used with 28k miles on it. I've put about another 30k miles on it. In that time I have replaced the tires and wiper blades. For me its been very economical transportation. I had it in for an AC recall item and they did a free battery check which would have been $200-300. In my opinion that is not required maintenance because it just told me the condition. It's not like the batteries would have worn out faster if I didn't know their condition.

Regarding the economics of EV ownership there is an implied comparison to ICE vehicles. Brake fluid flushes and battery inspections are absolutely more expensive than not owning a car but who is making that argument? Sounds like a severe case of internet fueling this argument. :D

The point is that the Electric bits don't incur unique costs anywhere near the maint costs unique to ICE cars. Brake fluid, tires, wipers, inspections, gear oil, etc. are all shared by both vehicles so for the sake of argument they cancel out leaving just battery degradation and charging costs vs petrol and ICE maintenance. EV wins that comparison overall in my book.

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by billvon » Jul 19 2018 11:06pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 19 2018 7:58pm
By some definitions,..yes multiple ones !
Which ones?
--bill von

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by amberwolf » Jul 20 2018 12:39am

My guess is that by his own definition earlier in the thread (in reply to John in CR) he has not had any EVs. ;)

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Re: EV Myths - add your own!

Post by Hillhater » Jul 20 2018 2:13am

DanGT86 wrote:
Jul 19 2018 10:10pm
....
The point is that the Electric bits don't incur unique costs anywhere near the maint costs unique to ICE cars. Brake fluid, tires, wipers, inspections, gear oil, etc. are all shared by both vehicles so for the sake of argument they cancel out leaving just battery degradation and charging costs vs petrol and ICE maintenance. EV wins that comparison overall in my book.
Its not an argument Dan..it just pointing out the myth that EVs do not require maintenance.
PS ...that annual battery inspection on the Leaf is a warranty requirement as noted in the service sheet i posted earlier.
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