Video- Inside the massive Gigafactory where Tesla will soon make 60 percent of the world’s lithium-ion batteries

MitchJi

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Inside the massive factory where Tesla will soon make 60 percent of the world’s lithium-ion batteries
https://www.theverge.com/transportation/2018/11/30/18118451/tesla-gigafactory-nevada-video-elon-musk-jobs-model-3

A senior analyst at Global Equities Research, LLC, likes to compare how Tesla has spent about as much ($5 billion) getting the Gigafactory to its current state as General Motors has spent on advertising in the same period. “The value of Gigafactory is exponential. It gives them flexibility. That money is well spent,” he said in an interview with The Verge. Chowdhry estimates that the Gigafactory could be worth $50 billion someday, based on the scale and the value of what the company has learned along the way. “Very few people, and companies, can do that,” he said.

“From our vantage point, Tesla’s rivals are primarily relying on outside battery suppliers, which may present significant logistical and scalability challenges going forward,” Worm Capital analysts Eric Markowitz and Dan Crowley, who toured the Gigafactory in August, said in an email. “Ultimately, we think not having Gigafactories of their own will adversely impact many automakers’ long-term ability to supply (at scale) affordable, durable, and long-range electric vehicles to consumers.”
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The electric cars and trucks are part of Tesla’s vision for a cleaner future. Musk believes that without sustainable energy, we’ll pollute ourselves to death. So if a shift to sustainable energy is ever going to happen on a scale big enough to tilt that balance, the Gigafactory has to succeed — and that success has to be repeatable all around the world.
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“From our vantage point, Tesla’s rivals are primarily relying on outside battery suppliers, which may present significant logistical and scalability challenges going forward,” Worm Capital analysts Eric Markowitz and Dan Crowley, who toured the Gigafactory in August, said in an email.
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Senior Analyst indeed ??.....
Strange comment considering the technology, equipment, and operational responsibility , of the Gigafactory battery cell manufacturing facilities are all Panasonic. ?
https://m.slashdot.org/story/346426
And....
According to the agreement, Tesla will prepare, provide and manage the land, buildings and utilities. Panasonic will manufacture and supply cylindrical lithium-ion cells and invest in the associated equipment, machinery, and other manufacturing tools based on their mutual approval. A network of supplier partners is planned to produce the required precursor materials. Tesla will take the cells and other components to assemble battery modules and packs. To meet the projected demand for cells, Tesla will continue to purchase battery cells produced in Panasonic’s factories in Japan.
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Hillhater said:
Senior Analyst indeed ??.....
Strange comment considering the technology, equipment, and operational responsibility , of the Gigafactory battery cell manufacturing facilities are all Panasonic. ?
https://m.slashdot.org/story/346426
And....
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Or, you could read the statement literally, with the keyword being outside. In all seriousness though, the level of integration with Panasonic that Tesla can achieve is beyond anything currently possible for any other vendor that simply sources the cells and/or complete packs from outside suppliers. Logistics alone can be quite tricky (and pricey, which will be pushed to the end consumer) for the volumes in question.
 
Currently, all cells for Teslas model S and X are manufactured In, and supplied from, Japan.
Nissan, Teslas nearest EV rival, have (until recently sub-contracted), operated their own cell manufacturing and pack assembly facilities in their own plants (3)
BYD, and BMW, also have their own cell and pack manufacturing facilities , with VW and Mercedes currently in process of also building their own battery facilities..
Which makes that "Senior Analyst". comment even less impressive ! :roll:
Full ownership and "vertical integration". is not always the best way to organise a manufacturing business.
 
Hillhater said:
Currently, all cells for Teslas model S and X are manufactured In, and supplied from, Japan.
Nissan, Teslas nearest EV rival, have (until recently sub-contracted), operated their own cell manufacturing and pack assembly facilities in their own plants (3)
BYD, and BMW, also have their own cell and pack manufacturing facilities , with VW and Mercedes currently in process of also building their own battery facilities..
Which makes that "Senior Analyst". comment even less impressive ! :roll:
Full ownership and "vertical integration". is not always the best way to organise a manufacturing business.
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Fine. Analyst is wrong, you're right.
 
its not a matter of being right ..( im sure someone will find some error in what i have posted )..
..but about correcting blatant false information , presented as fact.
if its not pointed out , someone will copy/paste or quote it again ...just as MitchJi did.
 
Hillhater said:
its not a matter of being right ..( im sure someone will find some error in what i have posted )..
..but about correcting blatant false information , presented as fact.
if its not pointed out , someone will copy/paste or quote it again ...just as MitchJi did.
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The other oems and hater are missing the point. Tesla stated that one goal of the Gigafactory was to reduce costs by 30% phase one and 50% phase two. Those cost reductions are attributable to just the Gigafactory. They already exceeded their phase one goal and hit 35%. They said that the two main reasons for the cost reductions are collocation, everything produced in one factory rather than, for example shipping cells to a different location to be assembled into packs, and the development of custom large scale cell manufacturing equipment.

When they announced those plans Panasonic publicly expressed skepticism. Later on Panasonic agreed that those estimates were conservative. Whatever you think about that it is clearly better to have the ability to spend billions on crucial production capacity rather than advertising to try to sell inferior cars.

So Tesla and Elon are the brains behind the large cost reductions.

I can absolutely count on when I make a post that can be construed as pro Tesla that hater will post a foolish disagreement. For example when I recommended investing in Tesla (made enough to buy three M3’s) hater posted that it’s better to wait until the price increases before investing!
 
MitchJi said:
... Tesla stated that one goal of the Gigafactory was to reduce costs by 30% phase one and 50% phase two. Those cost reductions are attributable to just the Gigafactory. They already exceeded their phase one goal and hit 35%. They said that the two main reasons for the cost reductions are collocation, everything produced in one factory rather than, for example shipping cells to a different location to be assembled into packs, and the development of custom large scale cell manufacturing equipment.

So Tesla and Elon are the brains behind the large cost reductions....
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As i pointed out, Tesla is not alone, nor were they the first , to have "inhouse" cell and pack manufacturing, so you cannot really credit them with that idea
And they Have not developed "custom "large scale cell manufacturring equipment"..
What they have is multiple ( 10, soon to be 13,) Commercial cell lines supplied and managed by Panasonic
Their cost reductions will come from the Gfactory simply because they do not have to source and import billions of cells for the M3, in the way they have for the S and X.
Their claimed cell cost of $100-110 /kWh is speculative, based on assumptions of the GF operating at optimum output, and efficiency......a point they are a long way short of yet (currently 25% capacity ?)
 
Hillhater said:
As i pointed out, Tesla is not alone, nor were they the first , to have "inhouse" cell and pack manufacturing, so you cannot really credit them with that idea
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You know the joke about whose civilization is better - Greek or Italian ?

The practical question isn't really who was the first to do it inhouse, or who is still doing it inhouse, but who actually made it work as economy of scale.

There is a video on youtube of BMW's battery production facility :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDvxR3oNefk

When I first saw it, I was thinking how in the world can they produce any reasonable amount of cells like that ? Since you seem to know some of those details, perhaps you can clarify - is that their R&D facility, or the actual production one for i3 and alikes ?
 
cricketo said:
The practical question isn't really who was the first to do it inhouse, or who is still doing it inhouse, but who actually made it work as economy of scale.
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Ford did the same thing with the Model T and blew everyone else out of the water for 20+ years (even though Mercedes probably had the first viable automobile ten years earlier). Apple too did the same thing with the iPod. Ask the average Joe who invented the modern automobile and most would say Ford. Ask the average Joe who invented the modern MP3 player most would say Apple. While nit pickers are technically correct to point out "the contrarian facts", the reality is that perception is closer to the truth. So in fifty years when you ask the average Joe who invented the electric car, most will say that Tesla did -- and they won't be wrong.

Michael
 
MitchJi said:
Tesla will soon make 60 percent of the world’s lithium-ion batteries
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And what's cool is that in 10 years that will be something like 30%. Not because they are making fewer batteries - but because everyone else will be making more.
 
billvon said:
And what's cool is that in 10 years that will be something like 30%. Not because they are making fewer batteries - but because everyone else will be making more.
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Getting close to the tipping point where is would be wise to short the oil and traditional automobile stocks. Sad. They could have owned this market. But like Xerox and Kodak before them, they let others take the lead and there will be no looking back.
 
cricketo said:
The practical question isn't really who was the first to do it inhouse, or who is still doing it inhouse, but who actually made it work as economy of scale....
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Yes, but as I say, that is yet to be done in the GF.
They are not yet at 25% capacity, and “who” should be credited with amy success anyway ?... Tesla, because it’s their roof, or Panasonic because they supply and operate the equipment ?
 
Hillhater said:
... and “who” should be credited with amy [sic] success anyway ?... Tesla, because it’s their roof, or Panasonic because they supply and operate the equipment ?
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Tesla. For the same reason that Standard Oil didn't get the credit for the Model T.
 
Hillhater said:
They are not yet at 25% capacity, and “who” should be credited with amy success anyway ?... Tesla, because it’s their roof, or Panasonic because they supply and operate the equipment ?
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Given your past posts, if it fails you will blame Tesla, if it succeeds you will credit Panasonic. Pretty simple!
 
MJSfoto1956 said:
Tesla. For the same reason that Standard Oil didn't get the credit for the Model T.
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:?:
Standard supplied the fuel...Ford made the tank to store it in
Tesla’s fuel is electrons..from the grid or a power point. The “fuel” is stored in cells produced By Panasonic .!
“
 
MitchJi said:
The other oems and hater are missing the point. Tesla stated that one goal of the Gigafactory was to reduce costs by 30% phase one and 50% phase two. Those cost reductions are attributable to just the Gigafactory. They already exceeded their phase one goal and hit 35%.
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We will see what the future holds for Tesla. I do not know it.

What is known is that Tesla has been almost bancrupt for two or three times in ist short history and the amount of money plus a story of technology leadership helped them to get enough money from their Investors in the stock market.

Good for them that the grew up in that long lasting super bullish stock market.

So far there was Little competition.

We will see what happens on the battery front against Samsung, LC Chem, BYD and others in the next years.

Same with electric cars.

VW is just starting to seriously making electric cars. They invest now around 40 billion Euros, they already have battery contracts for several years and afaik they tried to buy 1/3rd of the world cobalt production (but failed)
Vw already officially stated that they will finish development of their last ICE based platform until 2026.
From the MEB I, their first electric plattform they plan to sell 10 million in the next years.
Porsche stated officially that they plan to sell more electric cars than ICE cars by 2025.
Porsche usually sells 600 cars per year in Norway. For the Taycan the already have 3000 preorders there.

I think we have just arrived at the starting preperations for the electric car race.

In Europe that charing System will use CCS at up to 500kW (max. 500A) , the proprietary Tesla supercharger based on Menneckes MID DC connector (certified up to 75kW) was a nice start to show what could be possible, but this is obviously not a solution for the future. Maybe this is different in US, but I doubt it.
I once tried a Tesla S for several hundred km on German Autobahn. Okay, I was driving sometimes at more than 200km/h, because you want to try it, but charging times on the Tesla SC have still been quite long.
CCS should be ok for most.

We will see.

Musk Needs Storys.

Best and cheapest battery ever.
Man on the Mars in 2024.

Those are storries for his Investors. Nothing wrong with that. Buying Tesla stock would have made you a nice profit if you sell them now. But technological leadership or not we will see when the others start to compete.

In Daimlers battery factory in Kamenz hundreds of Tesla batteries from their cooperation some years ago are stored and tested and they decided to make their own design because they belive it is better.
 
In his recent interview, Schoch ultimately called on BMW’s executives to explore the idea of producing the company’s own battery cells for its upcoming electric cars. Candidly addressing his concerns, Schoch stated that BMW’s board members would probably benefit from working with Elon Musk, especially since the auto industry has developed a tendency to declare some otherwise important ideas as impossible.

“Our board members should finally deal more intensively with this gentleman, who should have been bankrupt by now. In the (auto) industry, too much is complained, and too much is declared impossible,” the BMW executive said.
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https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ev-batteries-gigafactory-bmw-manfred-schoch/
 
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