Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A continuous

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The Stig
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Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A continuous

Post by The Stig » Mar 21, 2016 9:22 pm

Hi, anyone know a source for 12s batteries? I'm looking at lithium for the light weight. I'm thinking 600 Wh and/or 1000 Wh.

I'm looking for something for a backpack and/or frame battery, so I would want some cells with a safe chemistry, like 18650s.
Last edited by The Stig on Sep 08, 2016 9:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by Grizzl-E » Mar 21, 2016 9:59 pm

Does it have to be 12s? If not then check out Luna cycle. They have some high power packs rated for that and above.
Only brutal acceleration will do.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by wesnewell » Mar 22, 2016 1:07 am

I recently bought 1776 wh of what could be configured as 40ah 12s for $360 from HK.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by The Stig » Mar 22, 2016 1:30 pm

Grizzl-E wrote:Does it have to be 12s? If not then check out Luna cycle. They have some high power packs rated for that and above.
Luna cycle looks like a good one, I think i might be able to work with 13s. They have been totally unresponsive though.

wesnewell wrote:I recently bought 1776 wh of what could be configured as 40ah 12s for $360 from HK.
This is for a backpack battery, so I would want some cells that are proven to be safe, know any safe types/brands?

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Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A continuous

Post by Grizzl-E » Mar 22, 2016 2:37 pm

Safety in a backpack means better casing and more padding. If you hit them hard enough to damage them it won't matter if it's lipo or 18650's. Your still in trouble. One guy one here carries his in a pelican case inside his backpack. You can make up a bms for a lipo pack if you want for low voltage protection.

Ya Luna can be a little slow getting back to you sometimes. But they are really solid to deal with.
Only brutal acceleration will do.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by bobsyleck » Mar 22, 2016 6:47 pm

well I almost got my hands on one of these (it was on ebay last week) http://www.byd.com/energy/u3a1-50e-a.htm
I'm sure if you look hard enough you could source one from somewhere else - they're often used in telecom & other energy storage systems. The specs are pretty impressive so a teardown/salvage/rebuild to suit your needs would be well worth it.
* I was going to put one into a bike trailer and just tow it behind me as is.
RLeck

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by The Stig » Mar 23, 2016 1:13 am

Bobysleck, ill have to check the link tomorrow as i am viewing this on my phone now.
Grizzl-E wrote:Safety in a backpack means better casing and more padding. If you hit them hard enough to damage them it won't matter if it's lipo or 18650's. Your still in trouble. One guy one here carries his in a pelican case inside his backpack. You can make up a bms for a lipo pack if you want for low voltage protection.

Ya Luna can be a little slow getting back to you sometimes. But they are really solid to deal with.
Portection is a good idea.

Good to hear that about luna. So if i place the order via the website and assume(pray) the battery is in stock, you think would probably ship it in a couple days or let me know otherwise? I had sent them emails asking if its in stock a couple days ago, still nothing.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by The Stig » May 04, 2016 5:42 pm

Turns out 13s just won't work.

So heres another shout out, anyone know of any good 12s ebike batteries?

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by friendly1uk » May 04, 2016 6:07 pm

40Ah at 12s is about 13kg of lightweight lipo bricks (hardcase)

Not sure why 44v works but not 48v. Perhaps address that.
bmsbattery sent me broken and incorrect stuff, and won't even talk to me about it.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by Jon NCal » May 04, 2016 6:47 pm

He only wants 12Ah, not 40Ah.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by Grizzl-E » May 04, 2016 9:41 pm

The Stig wrote:Turns out 13s just won't work.

So heres another shout out, anyone know of any good 12s ebike batteries?
Can you elaborate? No one makes 12s packs. Do you have a 12s charger or a weird controller?
Only brutal acceleration will do.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by The Stig » Sep 06, 2016 3:11 pm

Time to revisit this!
Grizzl-E wrote:
The Stig wrote:Turns out 13s just won't work.
So heres another shout out, anyone know of any good 12s ebike batteries?
Can you elaborate? No one makes 12s packs. Do you have a 12s charger or a weird controller?
Its the controller, I have to make something work with the Vedder controller (VESC) which comes from the RC-world and is good for up to 12s. So I run 12s for maximum power. So you don't think anyone would make 15x 12s packs, in either 600 Wh or 1000 Wh size?

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by dustNbone » Sep 06, 2016 10:04 pm

I think 12S RC LiPo voltage will land you right around 13s 18650 voltage.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by The Stig » Sep 07, 2016 3:10 pm

dustNbone wrote:I think 12S RC LiPo voltage will land you right around 13s 18650 voltage.
Yes, so I did the math and

12 cells X 4.35 v per cell is 52.2V (max voltage. 4.3 per cell is in extreme RC uses, like for racing. The vedder controller im using comes from the RC world)
13 cells X 4.0 v per cell is 52V

so this would work i found a 13s battery that will balance at 4v per cell.


A bit of background info: when I tried fully charged 13s it fried the vedder controller in some way. immediately there was a burning smell, and afterwards the measured resistance across the power leads of the controller was about 0 ohms. We inspected it and it looks like the capacitors were undamaged. I wasn't using an anti spark connector so I don't know if that would have helped. I'm confused about the situation since the vedder controller is rated for a max voltage of 60V.
Last edited by The Stig on Sep 08, 2016 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by DAND214 » Sep 07, 2016 10:03 pm

4.35v per cell???? Not really, I hope.

Dan

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by The Stig » Sep 08, 2016 9:07 am

DAND214 wrote:4.35v per cell???? Not really, I hope.

Dan
4.3 per cell is in extreme RC uses, like for racing. The vedder controller im using comes from the RC world.
Anyway, I was just entertaining the idea. I doubt there is a 13s BMS out there that balances at 4v per cell.

Most likely I'm looking for some obscure 12s BMS, or I have to use an RC charging set up, and go BMS free.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by DAND214 » Sep 08, 2016 9:16 am

The Stig wrote:
DAND214 wrote:4.35v per cell???? Not really, I hope.

Dan
4.3 per cell is in extreme RC uses, like for racing. The vedder controller im using comes from the RC world.
Anyway, I was just entertaining the idea. I doubt there is a 13s BMS out there that balances at 4v per cell.

Most likely I'm looking for some obscure 12s BMS, or I have to use an RC charging set up, and go BMS free.
That appears to work for the most of us. BMS free, bulk charge and balance maybe 3 to 4 times a year.

Dan

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by The Stig » Sep 08, 2016 9:30 am

Only reason I want to avoid that is to make the whole charging process seamless - just having a single connector. And so I can take the charger with me on rides, easily.

If I go the with the balance charger, do you know any good sources for packs that are safe with a long cycle life? (like made of 18650s)

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by e-beach » Sep 08, 2016 9:50 am

You might think about the Headway 15ah cells. 12s 2p. Not cheap but I have found them to be very safe and durable. I ride with my batteries in my triangle and have been hit by a car, flipped my bike (and me) and have dropped it at least 10 times with me landing feet down. After all those impact shocks the cells are still performing well and have about 9000 miles on them. You would need a good box for protection in a backpack, but the cells are hard to break and won't catch on fire easily. 44v is a bit hot for them but are supposed to balance to 3.65 per cell or 43.8v for 12s.
From Headway:
Headway 40152 15Ah Cell This Headway 40152S 15Ah certified cell has a continuous discharge rate of 3C, and maximum pulse of up to 10C, all with a very low resistance, high capacity
Edit: or you could go with the 8ah Headway's and make a 12s 2p backpack battery at about 6" x 6" x 9" with 576wh and a range of 20 miles or so depending on everything else.

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Re: Looking for 44V (12s) ebike battery, good for 60A contin

Post by Ecyclist » Oct 18, 2017 8:31 pm

The Stig wrote:
DAND214 wrote:4.35v per cell???? Not really, I hope.

Dan
4.3 per cell is in extreme RC uses, like for racing. The vedder controller im using comes from the RC world.
Anyway, I was just entertaining the idea. I doubt there is a 13s BMS out there that balances at 4v per cell.

Most likely I'm looking for some obscure 12s BMS, or I have to use an RC charging set up, and go BMS free.
Sorry about your VESC. I was thinking about using VESC with 13S 18650 cells but I can clearly see that this is no go.
From what I understand you can use 13s BMS on 12s pack.

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