FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic; NCA

Got something to sell? Have extra parts that need a good home? Have something that others would need to complete their kits? Post it up here and see if anyone else is searching for what you are selling. Guest may post replies to topics already here. All topics here will expire after 90 days of inactivity.
Post Reply
okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic; NCA

Post by okashira » Mar 12, 2015 7:21 pm

I have Tesla Model S cells pulled from a late 2014 car with only 3700 miles. The cells are Grade A Made in Japan by Panasonic and were custom engineered by Tesla and Panasonic; no more buying cells on the grey market BS for quality cells!!!
Grade A cells at cheaper then grey market prices!
The car was also a cold weather car, and I don't believe the cells have ever been fully charged (more on that later) nor have they been fully discharged. The modules were pulled out of the pack with an average cell voltage of ~3.31V, which is close to, but not completely dead. It is also an ideal storage voltage for long term storage (http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/dat ... 20MSDS.pdf page 23)
As as result, the cells are in LIKE NEW condition!!

Quote from Tesla CIO:
We use a nickel-cobalt-aluminum (LiNiCoAlO2) lithium-ion chemistry for our battery cathode material. We don’t use a titanate, which has about half the energy density but is generally good at high charge rates. Some start-ups are using metal oxides; we fall broadly in that category. At this point we really have heavily customized that cell. We’ve totally custom-engineered that cell working jointly with Panasonic to create. It’s an automotive cell, tested to automotive standards. It doesn't go into laptops anywhere.

These cells were designed for a 12-20 year life and should be good for ~1200-2000+ cycles, when used per design parameters. They are also designed for a full 100% DOD unlike most automotive batteries. (ref Tesla supercharge video showing 4.20V 50mA cut charge)

Here's a quick table I put together for specs and as a comparison for common ebike batteries:
Image
(please PM me if you see mistakes or missing info)


If treated properly, these cells should have exceptional life [http://ecst.ecsdl.org/content/41/41/65. ... t;41/41/65]
Here is some data from Norwegian Model S owners showing great durability:
Image
(95% after 240 full DOD cycles! And capacity loss slows significantly after 3% loss.)



I can offer the cells as follows:
**Bare
**Wrapped, like normal OEM cells, with a protective washer over the positive terminal
**Welded packs, to your geometrical specification [~2-3 weeks]
• Fully engineered to handle peak current 8A sustained or 15A peak per cell, unlike most welded packs!! (~2-3 weeks)[/1]
• Will include one - two thermocouples adhered to a cell for temperature monitoring.
• I will offer two designs:
• Designs use our custom holders that offer 10% better energy density then the black Chinese holders.

Here is the pricing. Shipping is flat rate in the 48 states to simplify things per the table. Please don't ask me for a "shipping quote," unless you are international!
If anyone in Europe or the Netherlands is interested in a group buy, I can arrange to have a very large qty of cells shipped for ~$500-$1000. I will use a consolidator and you would need to pick up at port.
ES Pricing 2-8-2015.JPG
ES Pricing 2-8-2015.JPG (88.24 KiB) Viewed 13594 times


BONUS!!
Cycle Testing!
I have an 8-channel, 4-wire, 10A capable, programmable battery cycle tester coming from china. Anyone with an order larger then $500 will get to specify any custom cycle test regimen and I will run new cell for at least 100 cycles, within reason. You can then keep the data, or share publicly if you desire. This way anyone who uses these cells can truly know what they are capable of...
Supercharging!
-These cells are officially capable of Supercharging, that's 50% charge in ~20 minutes and ~80% charge in 1 hour. More on this later...


-----------------------
I can accept:
-Cash (Houston, TX area)
-MO/Personal Check/Cashiers Check (you can snail mail me; this offers you better protection then PayPal with no fees; DYODD)
-Bitcoin (1Gb92HYj9CP2omp1wEf7z1BQzbKSZWGfFw)
-Chase Quick-pay
-Paypal (begrudgingly)
Last edited by okashira on Apr 14, 2016 11:28 am, edited 7 times in total.
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

flathill
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1407
Joined: Jul 06, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by flathill » Mar 12, 2015 9:05 pm

Okashira has comeup with a good method to remove the cells from the module without damaging them.

This is a great deal since the cells are basically new and you know they are real Grade A cells.

Similar Panasonic NCR18650BE cells go for $6.37 per cell with free shipping, if you buy 2 cells, but it takes weeks from Asia.

Similar Panasonic NCR18650BE cells go for $5.86 per cell with free shipping, if you buy 10 cells, but it takes weeks from Asia.

We still don't know for sure the NCR18650BE cell is the MS (Model S) cell, but in any case you are buying the best 18650 cell on the market today.

How cool will it be to tell your friends and family

Yeah...my ebike is powered by genuine Tesla MS cells!

Woo Yup...my fill_in_the_blank is powered by genuine Tesla MS cells!

okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by okashira » Mar 12, 2015 9:12 pm

Thanks Flathill... Yeah, these cells would actually work great for many uses, flashlights (already given to coworkers); vaping, power tools, power banks, etc.
I will post test data in battery forum within a couple days.
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

User avatar
teslanv
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3040
Joined: Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA - USA
Contact:

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by teslanv » Mar 12, 2015 9:14 pm

What is your plan for shipping? If I order 200+ Cells in Welded Packs, would they all ship together or in multiple packages?
DD Hubs, Batteries, Controllers & Custom Ebikes.
Free Shipping to the Continental USA
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
Brake
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 303
Joined: Jan 24, 2014 12:58 am
Location: Spokane, Wa

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by Brake » Mar 13, 2015 1:53 am

Just wanted to say thanks. Module was packed very well and arrived in great condition. I can't wait to give these a try.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426229593.159775.jpg

User avatar
mistercrash
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 992
Joined: Mar 09, 2011 11:01 am
Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada eh!

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by mistercrash » Mar 13, 2015 10:28 am

Can we see a 1C and a 2C discharge graph of these cells please? Thanks. Ray.
Is it ready yet?

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3336
Joined: Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by macribs » Mar 13, 2015 1:39 pm

Do you test each battery to be certain they are not sagging?
I mean odometer aside, it is hard to know how well the Tesla owner took care of his batteries.
And if reckless wear might show already. Would be nice to know for certain all cells are up for the task, to ensure no-struggle use and charging for a long long time.

After all, Tesla has 8 years battery warranty - those cells should still have plenty of life left.

User avatar
ohzee
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2263
Joined: Jul 20, 2011 1:13 pm
Location: Columbus Ohio USA

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by ohzee » Mar 13, 2015 3:42 pm

Yea curious about shipping also. I'm sure it's going to be a pita.

I ordered some cells from china recently.

The most they can ship in one package is 4s9p. So from there you just wire them like you want them.

Brake what's your plan for that pack ? It's a nice looking pack and I thought about getting one , but other then off grid power
id have no real application unless I tore it apart which sounds involved.

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3336
Joined: Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by macribs » Mar 13, 2015 4:05 pm

ohzee wrote:Yea curious about shipping also. I'm sure it's going to be a pita.

I ordered some cells from china recently.

The most they can ship in one package is 4s9p. So from there you just wire them like you want them.

Brake what's your plan for that pack ? It's a nice looking pack and I thought about getting one , but other then off grid power
id have no real application unless I tore it apart which sounds involved.

There is a chinese seller that makes packs for sale, ES member crazymotor. He made the battery according to agreement and he just divided the pack into several smaller legal packs. Put all of the smaller packs into one box and away it went with air shipment. Forum member r3volved just had to plug in a few connectors together and the many smaller packs turned into a 20s pack, or 20s6p to be correct. See it here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 5#p1009306

okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by okashira » Mar 13, 2015 4:49 pm

mistercrash wrote:Can we see a 1C and a 2C discharge graph of these cells please? Thanks. Ray.
Why 1C and 2C? I don't like to think in terms of "C" when comparing 18650's.
I can do 6A in addition to 3A and 9A/10A like I planned.
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by okashira » Mar 13, 2015 4:52 pm

ohzee wrote:Yea curious about shipping also. I'm sure it's going to be a pita.

I ordered some cells from china recently.

The most they can ship in one package is 4s9p. So from there you just wire them like you want them.

Brake what's your plan for that pack ? It's a nice looking pack and I thought about getting one , but other then off grid power
id have no real application unless I tore it apart which sounds involved.
If you order 400 18650's from fast-tech they just ship them UPS.

I just shipped the module UPS and it was fine. cells and packs will be easy; ill just be careful with packing and I can use all the extra fireproof material that came with the pack when I feel it's warranted.
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by okashira » Mar 13, 2015 5:05 pm

macribs wrote:Do you test each battery to be certain they are not sagging?
I mean odometer aside, it is hard to know how well the Tesla owner took care of his batteries.
And if reckless wear might show already. Would be nice to know for certain all cells are up for the task, to ensure no-struggle use and charging for a long long time.

After all, Tesla has 8 years battery warranty - those cells should still have plenty of life left.
I have tested many cells after removal. They stayed within 0.0002V after 5 days removed. that's 2 ten-thousandths of a volt.

As far as load test, of course I will not test each cell. I will test packs, however.

Panasonic was the original pioneer of the six sigma manufacturing process. This is one reason Tesla chose them. If you don't trust Panasonic's manufacturing, you can't trust anyone's.

And there's essentially nothing the car's owner could have done to the car to damage the cells. Even if the owner set out to use the car in some way to intentionally damage them, the car's BMS is designed so well it will not allow any damage to occur.

It's likely the car could be driven to 0 miles charge, and left to sit for one year and the cells would be fine.
I've had modules sitting for near a month now and they haven't even lost a thousandth of a volt, and that's with a BMS connected (and powered, you can tap 5V off the board) (in sleep mode, obviously)
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

flathill
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1407
Joined: Jul 06, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by flathill » Mar 13, 2015 5:31 pm

it would be good to create a database tracking

the year of car and number of miles and link it back to the serial number of every cell and every module in the car

that way in the future we can buy/sell/swapped matched use cells and modules

maybe your 8 year old model s is just out if warranty but has one bad module. well you can buy a used "matched" module for cheap. no use putting a new module in a pack full of old modules as the pack will always be limited by the weak bank

same if you need to replace just one dud cell in ur small ebike pack

calendar aging is going to be dominant unless the cells have been abused

at the module level just pulled from a car you will only car about the date of mfg

okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by okashira » Mar 13, 2015 7:20 pm

macribs wrote:
ohzee wrote:Yea curious about shipping also. I'm sure it's going to be a pita.

I ordered some cells from china recently.

The most they can ship in one package is 4s9p. So from there you just wire them like you want them.

Brake what's your plan for that pack ? It's a nice looking pack and I thought about getting one , but other then off grid power
id have no real application unless I tore it apart which sounds involved.

There is a chinese seller that makes packs for sale, ES member crazymotor. He made the battery according to agreement and he just divided the pack into several smaller legal packs. Put all of the smaller packs into one box and away it went with air shipment. Forum member r3volved just had to plug in a few connectors together and the many smaller packs turned into a 20s pack, or 20s6p to be correct. See it here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 5#p1009306
Macribs, if you're interested, just let me know if there's a specific test I can perform to ease your mind. I'm confident the cells are good. One advantage to these cells, by the time this pack was assembled, panasonic had manufactured 150,000,000 of the exact same cell. If you know anything about manufacting, such large volume generally benefits consistence and quality. You probably couldn't say the same for any other specific cell.
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

User avatar
parabellum
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2005
Joined: Nov 19, 2010 9:55 am
Location: Dominican Republic, north.

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by parabellum » Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm

What are the payment options?

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3336
Joined: Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by macribs » Mar 13, 2015 9:04 pm

okashira wrote: Macribs, if you're interested, just let me know if there's a specific test I can perform to ease your mind. I'm confident the cells are good. One advantage to these cells, by the time this pack was assembled, panasonic had manufactured 150,000,000 of the exact same cell. If you know anything about manufacting, such large volume generally benefits consistence and quality. You probably couldn't say the same for any other specific cell.
That testing you already done was what I was thinking of. Glad to see you are ahead ;)
I guess I am just being paranoid. One should trust Tesla batteries.


Pm send by the way.

Hillhater
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 8676
Joined: Aug 03, 2010 10:33 pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by Hillhater » Mar 13, 2015 9:26 pm

:shock:
okashira wrote: Panasonic was the original pioneer of the six sigma manufacturing process. ......)
I wish you would stop quoting this, I'm sure they do use it but....
Six sigma development and application is commonly attributed to Motorola , however it and many other statistical based control processes , were in common use in manufacturing under different terminology for many years prior to either of those organisations catching on (or even existing !), and can be directly traced back as far as the 1920's with the Statistical work of Shewhart at Bell labs .
The Japanese manufacturing industries learned most of their process and quality control techniques from the USA.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by okashira » Mar 13, 2015 11:10 pm

Motorola developed it after the Japanese revamped he manufacturing of their TV factory. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... BgLZyYxvtg
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

AngusR
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Mar 07, 2015 2:25 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by AngusR » Mar 14, 2015 12:44 am

Do these NCA cells use the same chargers as Lipos? What is your experience with the best way to charge these so far?

User avatar
Brake
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 303
Joined: Jan 24, 2014 12:58 am
Location: Spokane, Wa

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by Brake » Mar 14, 2015 12:48 am

Ohzee, I'm going to take the pack apart like Okashira is doing and use the cells for ebikes, etc. These cells are really nice.

Hillhater
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 8676
Joined: Aug 03, 2010 10:33 pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by Hillhater » Mar 14, 2015 1:02 am

From the six sigma Academy..
http://www.isixsigma.com/new-to-six-sig ... er-editor/
But , as I said, the fundamental principals were imbedded in manufacturing practice before these any of these guys were conceived !
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

okashira
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1018
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 6:45 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by okashira » Mar 14, 2015 1:13 am

From wikipedia,

The company began making televisions in 1947 with the model VT-71 with 7-inch cathode ray tube. In 1960, it introduced the world's first large-screen portable (19-inch), transistorized, cordless television. In 1963, it introduced the first rectangular color picture tube and in 1967 introduced the modular Quasar brand. In 1974, Motorola sold its television business to the Japan-based Matsushita - the parent company of Panasonic.

It was the changes that Matsushita implemented in their tv factory that set off Motorola's development of six sigma.
Yes, I agree it's all basic logic anyways. I am sure the thought processes have been around for centuries.
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

mvly
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1087
Joined: May 25, 2011 11:50 am

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by mvly » Mar 14, 2015 9:57 am

This might be obvious, but am i misssing the specs of the battery? What is the ah and C and the nominal voltage?

Ktraughb
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 25
Joined: Mar 14, 2015 10:41 am

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by Ktraughb » Mar 14, 2015 11:12 am

Pm sent.

User avatar
DanGT86
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 602
Joined: Sep 06, 2012 9:18 pm
Location: Saint Louis MO

Re: FS: Tesla Model S 18650 cells! Welded Packs! Panasonic;

Post by DanGT86 » Mar 14, 2015 12:06 pm

Pardon me if this is a dumb question but I didn't catch it when I read through. What is the mAh capacity of the cells?

Post Reply