E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Rix said:

I could be wrong but I thought that a faster rebound could stick my rear wheel to the ground

Click to expand...

This is true Simone, you wheel will stick better, but the price you pay for that going off bigger jumps is the ass end wants to catapult you over the bars, a 70s term we used for this was "Flying W"

Click to expand...

It is possible to have both - control in the woops and traction over the small chatter when riding sweeper turns. But not with the stock 2014 Fighter shock.

Slowing down the rebound (clicker) might be the best option with a shock that requires a compromise setting. Also if you have a spring too soft for your weight with a lot of preload wound into it, then the slow reb clicker setting might be acceptable because the spring still has strong restoring force when the suspension is near full extension. But it'd be terrible for anyone with the right spring rate and more normal spring preload.

With a better shock a quick external adjustment to try would be firmer high (stroke) speed compression damping. So more energy is absorbed on the compression stroke which means the rebound aint so explosive. If the shock is more basic then you need to change the internal settings to have a more progressive comp damping (which means 2 or maybe 3 "stage" stack). If comp damping changes aint enough then usually the shock needs re-valving on the rebound for slower high (stroke) speed but keeping the low speed rebound faster. So a 2-stage rebound.

My Fighter shock is the X-Fusion Vector Coil HLR. All the usual external adjustments. But it's damping was still too soft for a 35Kg e-bike including 7.5 Kg unsprung in the hub motor. So I revalved it, with 2-stage stacks for comp and rebound, and now it's extremely good. This is what I did for anyone inclined to give it a go. All shims are 8mm ID.

Comp stock: 3x22.15 20.15 2x18.15 2x10.2b
Comp mod3 (present): 22.15 20.2 16.1 22.2 20.2 18.2 16.2 14.2 2x10.2b
So the comp is dramatically firmer on high speed impacts, and far more progressive. IE. still supple at low stroke speeds.

Rebound stock: 16.2 16.2 14.15 12.2 10.2b.
Reb mod3 (present): 16.2 16.1 12.1 16.2 2x14.2 2x12.2b

I'm 75Kg (165 lbs) and I use a 500 lbs/in spring, with 200 PSI pressure in the res. This setup with a Tubliss rear trials tire is very nice!

http://www.xfusionshox.com/product/shocks/vector-coil/hlr.html

Emmett, I was so glad you chimed in. I am taking your setting recommendations for my next revalve. Of course, I will be running a 650# spring, but that should only translate into a few more clicks on rebound as long as my compression valving ratio is in check.

Rix said:

Emmett, I was so glad you chimed in. I am taking your setting recommendations for my next revalve. Of course, I will be running a 650# spring, but that should only translate into a few more clicks on rebound as long as my compression valving ratio is in check.

Click to expand...

You're welcome Rix. All stock MTB shocks will be valved way too light/soft for the Stealth Fighter, and trying to resolve this with a stiffer spring is a big compromise.

Keep in mind that the shim stacks I described might not work in a different MTB shock. They would work if your shock (compared to the X-Fusion Vector coil) has the same size body (piston ring) and shaft, and also a similar damping circuit going into the gas res. The body size is most important to match, and I don't know what MTB shock conventions are between brands and models. I suspect no conventions. If your shock currently has the same 22 and 16mm OD face shims (for the comp and rebound), then my stack specs will be probably close enough to use.

Be conscious of the overall height of the shim stacks plus piston. That is, stock versus modified. This is not only for the retaining nut to work, but in some shock designs the reb adjuster bleed (valve tip clearance) can depend on the overall stack height. Hard to explain, but a tuner will understand.

I bought my X-fusion shock for only USD85 with very light use. Near new actually. A replacement spring was just another $30. So keep that in mind before forking out $ for anything else. You could buy some shims for about $20 and put them in the same shock and you're on your way to rear suspension bliss.

Since you are heavier than me, you ride fast woops, and your spring is also firmer, you will benefit from significantly firmer damping than I need. So I'd recommend this for you:

Some tuning shorthand advice: XX.YY means a shim (washer) with OD XXmm and thickness 0.YYmm. All my shims have ID = 8mm.

Comp (Rix): 22.2 20.2 16.1 22.2 20.2 18.2 16.2 14.3 10.2b
Reb (Rix): 16.25 12.1 16.2 14.2 14.25 2x12.2b (use 2 x 16.20 face shims instead of 1 x 16.25 if stack height allows the thickness)

If you pull any MTB shock apart, then consider fitting a much stronger bottom out bump stop. Typically $15 from a suspension shop. Sometimes a rubber floor mount from a furniture parts store can be modified to do the job. Here is a nice one on eBay http://r.ebay.com/vPy0re

Wow! Thank you very much Rix & Emmet for the huge quantity of knowledge you have been sharing here.
My shock knowledge is more basic and come from off road RC cars.
So to start from some numbers, do you know which spring rate is my DNM stock 2013 Bomber shock? I think it's a progressive spring.
What do you think about my present rider sag? Is a 63mm sag something standard on these Bomber bikes? I think I will try some more sprig preload because it seems to help me gain some more fast rebound also.

bigbore said:

So to start from some numbers, do you know which spring rate is my DNM stock 2013 Bomber shock? I think it's a progressive spring.
What do you think about my present rider sag? Is a 63mm sag something standard on these Bomber bikes? I think I will try some more sprig preload because it seems to help me gain some more fast rebound also.

Click to expand...

I don't know Bomber spring rates.

As a general rule, on one of these bikes, rear rider sag (with you on the bike in your typical cornering body position) should be around 30 to 33% of your full suspension travel. That means your rear wheel has on average 2/3 of the stroke available for compression when the wheel is forced upward, and 1/3 available for extension when the wheel drops away. So if you have say 210mm of travel, you'd be seeking about 69mm of rider sag.

Keep your rear sag in a sane range.

Spring rate calculators can be of use. Like this one http://www.tftuned.com/spring-calculator

bigbore said:

Wow! Thank you very much Rix & Emmet for the huge quantity of knowledge you have been sharing here.
My shock knowledge is more basic and come from off road RC cars.
So to start from some numbers, do you know which spring rate is my DNM stock 2013 Bomber shock? I think it's a progressive spring.
What do you think about my present rider sag? Is a 63mm sag something standard on these Bomber bikes? I think I will try some more sprig preload because it seems to help me gain some more fast rebound also.

Click to expand...

My bike is a 2013 bomber and had a 750 spring on it. I wound up going to a 550 and get a 3 stage stack revalve. (I weight 165lbs) I put a heavier spring in the front forks and got flat triple clamps that effectively lowered the front of the bike. I also raised the forks in the triples to the MIN mark on the 888's. One of the issues with the front is that because Stealth is using off the shelf parts there is no standard. The RST's are shorter than the 888's so by swapping over to the 888's your raising the front end. This made my bike push and want to wash out. (I pulled the RST's up in the clamps as well) After I got the flat triples (the 888's have a bend in them) and raised the forks in the triples the bike is crazy neutral. Raising the forks gave me way more feel and confidence in turns. Now if I adjust my body position I can make the front or rear slide on command or slide both at the same time. Fact is with the big ass motor at the end of the swingarm In the rear it's gonna be a compromise any way you slice it. It will never handle like a dirtbike or a mid drive but it can be much better than stock... Unsprung weight bitches!!!!!!

1abv said:

bigbore said:

Wow! Thank you very much Rix & Emmet for the huge quantity of knowledge you have been sharing here.
My shock knowledge is more basic and come from off road RC cars.
So to start from some numbers, do you know which spring rate is my DNM stock 2013 Bomber shock? I think it's a progressive spring.
What do you think about my present rider sag? Is a 63mm sag something standard on these Bomber bikes? I think I will try some more sprig preload because it seems to help me gain some more fast rebound also.

Click to expand...

My bike is a 2013 bomber and had a 750 spring on it. I wound up going to a 550 and get a 3 stage stack revalve. (I weight 165lbs) I put a heavier spring in the front forks and got flat triple clamps that effectively lowered the front of the bike. I also raised the forks in the triples to the MIN mark on the 888's. One of the issues with the front is that because Stealth is using off the shelf parts there is no standard. The RST's are shorter than the 888's so by swapping over to the 888's your raising the front end. This made my bike push and want to wash out. (I pulled the RST's up in the clamps as well) After I got the flat triples (the 888's have a bend in them) and raised the forks in the triples the bike is crazy neutral. Raising the forks gave me way more feel and confidence in turns. Now if I adjust my body position I can make the front or rear slide on command or slide both at the same time. Fact is with the big ass motor at the end of the swingarm In the rear it's gonna be a compromise any way you slice it. It will never handle like a dirtbike or a mid drive but it can be much better than stock... Unsprung weight bitches!!!!!!

Click to expand...

1ABV, keep in mind that in 2013, Stealth went from a fix rate linear spring to progressive coil, so not all are the same. Grande Cilindro (Big Bore in Italiano :lol: sort of )could have a progressive coil depending on when Allex's old Bomber was made.

@Emmett, here is what I am going to do, when I get my other shock in, I will revalve my old shock with your shim stack recommendations. If I screw it up, I mailing the shock to you and have you work on it for me. I got to wait until my new shock arrives so I can keep on riding.

1ABV, keep in mind that in 2013, Stealth went from a fix rate linear spring to progressive coil, so not all are the same. Grande Cilindro (Big Bore in Italiano :lol: sort of )could have a progressive coil depending on when Allex's old Bomber was made.

@Emmett, here is what I am going to do, when I get my other shock in, I will revalve my old shock with your shim stack recommendations. If I screw it up, I mailing the shock to you and have you work on it for me. I got to wait until my new shock arrives so I can keep on riding.[/quote]

Rick,
Quite right... It's been so long since I've had the stock spring on that I actually forgot if it was straight or progressive...wait for it........Ahh just went back through some old pics mine was straight.

Little fun on the way home from work yesterday... mmm dusty.....

If I compare new bikes to my old one, my spring does not look as a progressive one.

Very nice air time there ABV. Normally its dusty here as well, but this summer has been a fluke. its rained at least weekly since May, and we have only had a couple of days where the temps broke 100F, normally we are up around 108F through most of July. Actually its been very nice.

Rix said:

Very nice air time there ABV. Normally its dusty here as well, but this summer has been a fluke. its rained at least weekly since May, and we have only had a couple of days where the temps broke 100F, normally we are up around 108F through most of July. Actually its been very nice.

Click to expand...

You'r luky Here in Italy we are in one of the hottest summers in recent years ..... I've been riding my Bomber just to commute to work and only some times I ride on some trails

Bigbore in italian is "grande alesaggio" and this is Bigbore (VTR 1000F behind my street legal mini e-scooter)

Rix said:

A while back, Like 200 pages back or so, either Quigley of QMS or Quiet Rush had recommended a Brookes Saddle for those didn't like the stock set up. Last week I went for a 61 mile ride using just over 1100 wh. My ass was sore. So I bought a Brookes saddle remembering one of the above guys recommended it. Well needless to say, this is hands down the best and most comfortable saddle I have ever ran on 2 wheels that can be pedaled. My only regret was I didn't buy one sooner. So Quigley or Quiet Rush, which ever one of you guys recommended that, thank you.

Click to expand...

You're welcome Rix, glad to hear it worked out for you as well. A 100yr old saddle design is a good testament to its effectiveness. http://store.quietrush.com.au/blog/a-two-wheel-pedalmotor-retrospective Nice choice on the green, haven't seen too many of those around, looks great!. Just be sure to keep the tension up as the leather softens and keep it treated so it stays supple, they get even better over time as they conform to your own, er, 'contours'. Not sure they do so to the extent of covering you for sphincter pucker in the wilder riding moments.

Emmett, great work on the shim stack fine tuning recommendations for Rix. Your suspension tuning knowledge is a real asset to the forum. Look forward to joining you some day for a ride. In, like, 2016. Helluva 2H15 ahead.

QuietRush said:

Rix said:

A while back, Like 200 pages back or so, either Quigley of QMS or Quiet Rush had recommended a Brookes Saddle for those didn't like the stock set up. Last week I went for a 61 mile ride using just over 1100 wh. My ass was sore. So I bought a Brookes saddle remembering one of the above guys recommended it. Well needless to say, this is hands down the best and most comfortable saddle I have ever ran on 2 wheels that can be pedaled. My only regret was I didn't buy one sooner. So Quigley or Quiet Rush, which ever one of you guys recommended that, thank you.

Click to expand...

You're welcome Rix, glad to hear it worked out for you as well. A 100yr old saddle design is a good testament to its effectiveness. http://store.quietrush.com.au/blog/a-two-wheel-pedalmotor-retrospective Nice choice on the green, haven't seen too many of those around, looks great!. Just be sure to keep the tension up as the leather softens and keep it treated so it stays supple, they get even better over time as they conform to your own, er, 'contours'. Not sure they do so to the extent of covering you for sphincter pucker in the wilder riding moments.

Emmett, great work on the shim stack fine tuning recommendations for Rix. Your suspension tuning knowledge is a real asset to the forum. Look forward to joining you some day for a ride. In, like, 2016. Helluva 2H15 ahead.

Click to expand...

My only regret is I didn't listen to you sooner. I see how the tension works to keep the leather taught. I got some Obenuaf's heavy duty leather protector. Should keep the leather healthy. Checked out your page, very nice 1912, 3.5hp machines. Beyond old school.

I have to say the MT5 brakes on my new 52 Bomber are shit they normally last 4 weeks and are not make for speed
I need carbon brakes off a Formula one car

bigbore said:

Rix said:

Very nice air time there ABV. Normally its dusty here as well, but this summer has been a fluke. its rained at least weekly since May, and we have only had a couple of days where the temps broke 100F, normally we are up around 108F through most of July. Actually its been very nice.

Click to expand...

You'r luky Here in Italy we are in one of the hottest summers in recent years ..... I've been riding my Bomber just to commute to work and only some times I ride on some trails

Bigbore in italian is "grande alesaggio" and this is Bigbore .jpg[/img]

Click to expand...

Grazie Simone per la Lezione di Italiano! I will refer to you as Grande Alesaggio per sempre ora. Funny thing about hot weather, we get more capacity out of our batteries, at the price of running a hot controller/motor sooner.

stevebills said:

I have to say the MT5 brakes on my new 52 Bomber are shit they normally last 4 weeks and are not make for speed
I need carbon brakes off a Formula one car

Click to expand...

Steve, I am not trying to disagree with you for the sake of starting a dispute/argument, but something is major wrong with either your brakes or riding style if you are only getting 4 weeks out of your MT5. I have the MT2 on my modded Figther. I have over a 1000 miles on them, and even though the pads are getting close to metal to metal, They still have some life left in them. Are you riding your brakes? Have they been correctly bled? Sorry for the basic questions, just want to rule out some possibilities.

BTW, I drove out to the Tesla Gigawatt Factory site. The guards wouldn't let me go past the ECP, or entry control point, so I snapped a pic and left. The ECP is over 2 miles away from the site and is a private road. Next mission is to do some cross county riding into the construction site and get some intel

Rix said:

stevebills said:

I have to say the MT5 brakes on my new 52 Bomber are shit they normally last 4 weeks and are not make for speed
I need carbon brakes off a Formula one car

Click to expand...

Steve, I am not trying to disagree with you for the sake of starting a dispute/argument, but something is major wrong with either your brakes or riding style if you are only getting 4 weeks out of your MT5. I have the MT2 on my modded Figther. I have over a 1000 miles on them, and even though the pads are getting close to metal to metal, They still have some life left in them. Are you riding your brakes? Have they been correctly bled? Sorry for the basic questions, just want to rule out some possibilities.

Click to expand...

Rick,
I agree 4 weeks is a bit crazy but on the flip side I do run through pads on my bomber w mt 4's.in a few months. I've tried both the endurance and performance pads. Much faster than I thought. And I have never been terribly impressed with the lever travel or feel on the Maguras. Now this has been kicked around a bit on this thread and there are "fixes" for the lever travel issue but honestly there are so many other superior braking systems out there why bother trying to hack them. As soon as I get a second I'm going to switch over to Saints. prob will happen in the fall. I won't use the center lock rotors though. The Maguras have always been a weak point for me. The bike is a bit heavy and big and is pushing a bit beyond the limits of the Maguras.
Saints, Formula, Avid, or Hope have proper downhill bike brakes that seem to be much more robust then the Maguras. My 2 cents…

Rick on your bomber how long have the pads lasted? Mine are about 500 miles (for the fronts) at the most

Rix said:

BTW, I drove out to the Tesla Gigawatt Factory site. The guards wouldn't let me go past the ECP, or entry control point, so I snapped a pic and left. The ECP is over 2 miles away from the site and is a private road. Next mission is to do some cross county riding into the construction site and get some intel

Click to expand...

They probably have cameras around Rick.

Rix said:

stevebills said:

I have to say the MT5 brakes on my new 52 Bomber are shit they normally last 4 weeks and are not make for speed
I need carbon brakes off a Formula one car

Click to expand...

Steve, I am not trying to disagree with you for the sake of starting a dispute/argument, but something is major wrong with either your brakes or riding style if you are only getting 4 weeks out of your MT5. I have the MT2 on my modded Figther. I have over a 1000 miles on them, and even though the pads are getting close to metal to metal, They still have some life left in them. Are you riding your brakes? Have they been correctly bled? Sorry for the basic questions, just want to rule out some possibilities.

Click to expand...

Are you using som organic pads maybe? Use sintered for longevity.
Nice picture Rix! I hope we will have some new battery tech for cheap soon, thanks to thats factory.

1abv Rick said:

Rick on your bomber how long have the pads lasted? Mine are about 500 miles [/b](for the fronts) at the most

Click to expand...

My old Bomber front brakes are the old Gator 6 Pot calipers with a large brake fluid Reservoir running a 228mm disk Rotor. It has 10,000 miles on them and they haven't been replaced yet as there is still some pad left before hitting metal to metal. The rear is stock 6 piston Gator caliper with a 203mm rotor, and its worn even less. My Fighter is a different story, I am coming up on 1,000 miles, and my front brake pads on the MT Magura will need to be replaced soon. I will probably hit 1100 miles before they are metal to metal. I just put a 228mm rotor on the front as well. If I had that sooner, I would have gotten a little more miles out of them. As far as lever travel goes, try bleeding your brakes. Its possible you got an air bubble in the line. That will make the lever travel a bit, and feel spongy doing it.

Rodney64 said:

Rix said:

BTW, I drove out to the Tesla Gigawatt Factory site. The guards wouldn't let me go past the ECP, or entry control point, so I snapped a pic and left. The ECP is over 2 miles away from the site and is a private road. Next mission is to do some cross county riding into the construction site and get some intel

Click to expand...

They probably have cameras around Rick.

Click to expand...

For sure Rod, Sanyo is partnered with Tesla and the initial building was 5 Billion dollars. Now Tesla has acquired tons more land around the site and plans on building way way bigger. The building will be so big that it could be measured in square miles instead of square feet, which I am told will be in the millions. But I got a plan, you can see in the background of the photo there are mountains and ridges about 4-5 miles away. I can get to them. So the plan is to ride the Fighter over in that crap, and see if I can get some photos of area. Naturally if I see signage that says no photographs, then I wont take any, but I am betting there isn't any on the mountains. To be continued............

Allex said:

Rix said:

stevebills said:

I have to say the MT5 brakes on my new 52 Bomber are shit they normally last 4 weeks and are not make for speed
I need carbon brakes off a Formula one car

Click to expand...

Steve, I am not trying to disagree with you for the sake of starting a dispute/argument, but something is major wrong with either your brakes or riding style if you are only getting 4 weeks out of your MT5. I have the MT2 on my modded Figther. I have over a 1000 miles on them, and even though the pads are getting close to metal to metal, They still have some life left in them. Are you riding your brakes? Have they been correctly bled? Sorry for the basic questions, just want to rule out some possibilities.

Click to expand...

Are you using som organic pads maybe? Use sintered for longevity.
Nice picture Rix! I hope we will have some new battery tech for cheap soon, thanks to thats factory.

Click to expand...

4 weeks is a bit of a lie they last around 6 weeks and i only use the bke at weekend on the road and park and the Mt5's are not made for 45+ mph it eats them up

thx steve

Rix said:

As far as lever travel goes, try bleeding your brakes. Its possible you got an air bubble in the line. That will make the lever travel a bit, and feel spongy doing it.

Click to expand...

Good suggestion - trying to remove air bubbles. Another tip that improves lever travel is to use a thinner block between the pistons while bleeding. That allows you to get more fluid behind them while bleeding, putting the pads at a closer starting position. With the rotors and pads sitting closer together, extra attention will have to be paid to alignment when setting up to avoid annoying scraping or pinging when not braking.

Bubbles are also really stubborn little punks. Should there be any in the lines, master or caliper? No, but somehow there's aways a bit.

I bled my rear MT2 recently and it completely transformed them. I also put in fresh Magura Endurance pads which had thicker pad material than the aftermarket ones I had on previously. The brakes are still going strong after ~8000km on my non-Stealth ebike. It took a lot of patience to coax, knock and tap the majority of the bubbles out of the master & caliper but the result was great. I had to wind the adjuster in to bring the lever closer to the handlebar!