E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Rix said:

stevebills said:

I went out on the Bomber today and the left hand side peddle complete with arm fell off and what do I need to put it on with there is a large looking alley key slot on the arm and do i tigten it clockwise?

help thx steve

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On your crank arms mounting faces, you got an allen threaded cap sized 10mm and inside of the cap is the actual bolt sized 8mm. Don' touch the 10mm cap bolt. Grab yourself and 8mm allen wrench, and some grease and put that on BB outside spindle . Maybe put just a little bit of blue lock tight inside of the bb bracket spindle threads. Then torque it down. I can't remember but it seems like you don't want to exceed 35nm of torque. I have the manual on my other computer and can look up the torque specs tomorrow.

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I grabbed an 8mm key from a bike shop today and sorted it so thanks Rix

Glad you got it sorted Steve.

Its the left arm. That's significant.
If it was well worn inside the square taper it'll probably fall off again in a few hundred km no matter what you do. If it does, look inside the crank arm, you'll see something like this:
http://blog.artscyclery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Screen-shot-2012-04-18-at-3.50.33-PM.png

If it happens and you need a new arm, you'll notice a heap on new ones for sale on fleabay and alibaba (I have plenty too of various types). If the crank isn't torqued when fitting it slops around until the ally is damaged.
Its counter intuitive, but when fitting a new crank, some lube inside the square taper actually helps the crank draw fully up onto the spindle and avoid the issue happening in the long term...

Samd said:

Its the left arm. That's significant.
If it was well worn inside the square taper it'll probably fall off again in a few hundred km no matter what you do. If it does, look inside the crank arm, you'll see something like this:
http://blog.artscyclery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Screen-shot-2012-04-18-at-3.50.33-PM.png

If it happens and you need a new arm, you'll notice a heap on new ones for sale on fleabay and alibaba (I have plenty too of various types). If the crank isn't torqued when fitting it slops around until the ally is damaged.
Its counter intuitive, but when fitting a new crank, some lube inside the square taper actually helps the crank draw fully up onto the spindle and avoid the issue happening in the long term...

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i bought the Bomber 3 months ago so I presume the arm was not tightened properly at the dealers as I picked up the bomber as a fully assembled bike
so if it comes off again as there was slight wear can I get a replacement under warranty?

thx steve

This is my 6000 mile Bomber report.

Still running great as usual. My battery capacity seems to be reduced to about 17.5ah. Still tops out about 50 mph, 53 when pedaling.

I have 1000 miles on my Hook Worm tires, and they're holding up better than I expected. The little basketball bumps are worn off the rear, but there's still lots of tread. I think I might be able to get 2000 miles out of the rear.

I'm on my second set of brake pads that are a little more than half worn out.

The only failure my bike has suffered was a right side swing arm bearing.

The only maintenance I perform besides changing tires, and brake pads is occasionally lubing the pedal chain, and VBoxx, and I stuffed some grease into the freewheel once.

I consider this to be extremely outstanding dependability.

bladewheels said:

bladewheels said:

Howdy folks, looking for some diagnostic wisdom/direction if you please?

'13 Bomber, original owner, 3rd frame (works good now with the seatpost bracket re-inforced, thanks Stealth!), ridden 20 - 50 km/day (9 mon/yr) on gravel trails & pavement, dry climate. v3.x Cycle Analyst, I believe?

Mid-ride, this afternoon with 1/2 battery capacity left, the throttle response ceased; toggled the keyswitch a couple of times while still riding (CA's LCD toggled off/on with key position) but still no throttle response. Tried again a minute later and the CA LCD no longer lit up.

Plugged the bike in @home and charging proceeded as per normal.
1/2 hr later I unplugged the charger from the bike, tore off the side panels & fiddled with the connectors - no change.
Found multimeter: measured 0 & infinite Ohms on plug to keywsitch for on/off positions.

Not sure how to proceed, other than dragging it down to the (nearby) dealer.
Can I further isolate the problem @home or will it be a matter of parts swapping until it works again?

TIA

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remf said:

Hmm sounds like the pack. It might be more like swapping a cell not a part. Of course your pack might be nearing its end of life in which case you might want to get a new pack. Best to contact tech@stealthelectricbikes.com

[edit] Rereading this, it could also be the controller. A couple of years ago I had a rare combo fault of both a blown FET and a cell. I had to send the controller and the pack for repairs...I thought it would takes ages to repair but was amazed when I was back riding again a week or 2 later.

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Thanks remf; I'll let my local dealer call Stealth, etc. They (Revolution Cycle, Edmonton, AB) are pretty good.

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Revolution Cycle determined the root cause - a broken solder joint in the connector that feeds from the pack to the controller (under the battery) , thankfully a quick/simple fix!

I tightened up the peddle arm with an 8mm allen key as suggested
and it fell off again last night and looking at it inside its now worn and fooked
so I will be asking for a new one under warranty

thx steve

Theodore Voltaire said:

This is my 6000 mile Bomber report.

Still running great as usual. My battery capacity seems to be reduced to about 17.5ah. Still tops out about 50 mph, 53 when pedaling.

I have 1000 miles on my Hook Worm tires, and they're holding up better than I expected. The little basketball bumps are worn off the rear, but there's still lots of tread. I think I might be able to get 2000 miles out of the rear.

I'm on my second set of brake pads that are a little more than half worn out.

The only failure my bike has suffered was a right side swing arm bearing.

The only maintenance I perform besides changing tires, and brake pads is occasionally lubing the pedal chain, and VBoxx, and I stuffed some grease into the freewheel once.

I consider this to be extremely outstanding dependability.

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Nice update TV, looks like you got another 2 years with your battery. Technically you probably go 4, but you will come to a point where your battery will only hold 9amps and volt sag under WOT will result in BMS shut down, hot of the charge. Than you know its time to replace the battery. :lol:

Just shows lifepo4 is good stable stuff.
My 2012 battery still holding up after i had cells replaced, last owner diddent look after it, i got a good friend on this forum
To put some new ones in
Still got about 85/90% capacity
Look at this little bugger i got this morn, and it diddent even go through inner tube, it came out side wall

You lucky Jimbo, that could have ended your ride. Yah, you got Bomber 138, I have 143. We both have the same old LifePo4 pouch cells. The new packs are running a different chemistry.

Yeh only see it when i plugged charger in,
Iv got mx tubes, and tube as a linner, and kevlar linner down middle
Rix what thay got in em now samsung cells 18650?

Jimboyr6 said:

Yeh only see it when i plugged charger in,
Iv got mx tubes, and tube as a linner, and kevlar linner down middle
Rix what thay got in em now samsung cells 18650?

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Stealth is using some kind of Lithium Ion chemistry pouch cells. I don't know what chemistry it is exactly, but its not Lifepo4, and they are definitely pouch cells.

Also if anyone has got hope tech brakes
Mine had excessive travel at the leaver done the bleeding thing, so then i tryed the pad alignment vid on YouTube
Well what a difference nice leaver modulation
the pads are now closer to discs so if anyone has them or other brake with crap leaver mybe this would help u out
But u have to get discs dead central to the caliper slot :wink:

Jimboyr6 said:

Also if anyone has got hope tech brakes
Mine had excessive travel at the leaver done the bleeding thing, so then i tryed the pad alignment vid on YouTube
Well what a difference nice leaver modulation
the pads are now closer to discs so if anyone has them or other brake with crap leaver mybe this would help u out
But u have to get discs dead central to the caliper slot :wink:

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It's a great feeling when you get your caliper alignment just right!

Another bit of info with the Hope Tech series is that the Tech 3 V4 caliper is designed to accept their floating vented rotor which is substantially wider than the standard disk or floating-only versions. You should get the best feel with the vented but if you are using a narrower rotor, the system should be re-bled so there's additional fluid in the system to keep the pistons closer to the thinner rotor.

Rix said:

Jimboyr6 said:

Yeh only see it when i plugged charger in,
Iv got mx tubes, and tube as a linner, and kevlar linner down middle
Rix what thay got in em now samsung cells 18650?

Click to expand...

Stealth is using some kind of Lithium Ion chemistry pouch cells. I don't know what chemistry it is exactly, but its not Lifepo4, and they are definitely pouch cells.

Click to expand...

I believe Stealth have moved away from Lithium Ion Phosphate(LiFePO4) batteries in the the latest models completely.

I am not 100% sure but based on the current capacity, I think the current Bomber is using Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide (LiNiMnCoO2 or NMC). NMC is superior in nearly every way over Lithium Ion Phosphate(LiFePO4) has good overall performance, safety and specific energy.

In regards to the new Fighter battery I believe this is using Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide (LiNiCoAlO2) which has the highest Whr/kg rating currently commercially available. A give away is that the new Fighter pack is a (Edit)14S pack as opposed to previous pack being 16S meaning that each cell has a higher end voltage.

Very interesting info John! My guess was that the new Fighter pack was some type of LiMn chemistry because it weighs around 10 kg and is 1.5kWh. Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide - like the sound of that - apart from the nasty cobalt

remf said:

Very interesting info John! My guess was that the new Fighter pack was some type of LiMn chemistry because it weighs around 10 kg and is 1.5kWh. Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide - like the sound of that - apart from the nasty cobalt

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Yah, what Remf said.

It's great that Stealth are updating the Battery packs...it's just a shame they don't update the rear dropout design. Or put bigger axles on the hub motors...or use clamping dropouts...or do anything to prevent what happened to me today:
[youtube]DcegHq0HCbk[/youtube]
I've mentioned it on other threads, but on my HS4080 (from Stealth) I recently stripped the axle threads trying to make the nuts tight enough to prevent rotations issues.
I still haven't been able to get my axle repaired, but today gave it a shot anyway. The nuts weren't on very tight, but it still felt solid when riding. Going down a hill I decided to do a bit of regen...BIG MISTAKE!

So anyway, this resulted in the phase wires shorting somewhere in the axle. It must only be a minor short as we were able to pull on the wires and it stopped, so we zip tied them in place and I was able to ride home pedalling.

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it many times before in this thread, but the non-clamping, horizontal dropouts DO NOT WORK. At least long term and with the tiny 1/2" axle of the HS40xx motors.

I've just ordered a new Leaf Motor with 16mm axle nuts. It shouldn't have any issues, but really Stealth should not be selling these bikes with such a weak link IMO. I've had nothing but problems with mine since I got it...now after 4+ years of use, my swing-arm is worn, my torque blocks are worn, the axle on all my motors is severely worn, and so is my patience with this design...really hoping a 16mm axle helps.

Cheers

So you rode the bike with stripped axle nuts and flogged out dropouts on rough tracks and used regen? Seriously?

I understand you are pissed off but in all honesty, the weak link is not with the design, but how the bike is maintained. If the dropouts and torque blocks are flogged out after 4 years, then you replace them or repair them.

Stealth bikes are designed to operate without a derailleur and as such need a slotted dropout with a sliding adjustment mechanism to tension the chain. This makes it difficult incorporate a clamping design. However, as long as the clamping block is adjusted correctly and the nuts correctly torqued, nothing will come loose. This has been proven by the fact that the issue of loosening axle nuts under regen is hardy heard of anymore since the introduction of the clamping blocks.

The only reason the axle was stripped was because of the bad design. The only reason the drop-outs were 'flogged' was because of the bad design.
Yeah I probably shouldn't have used Regen knowing the state of the axle, and admitted as much already.

I'm not the only one who has had problems with the dropouts and the small axles.

John what would you suggest is done differently to 'maintain' this part of the bike? I would be interested to see photo's of the condition of any other Fighters drop-outs that has over 10000km over 4 years like mine.

If the drop-out design is so splendid, why does it need the clamping block added?

Are there any other E-Bikes that have this same dropout design? I haven't seen any?

Cheers

10000 km is a lot of riding. I think in your case your dropouts started to flog out before the the torque blocks were introduced so I imagine it's a bit of an a cumulative situation. It was the regen feature that highlighted the need for torque blocks. Also tolerances on the torque arms were tightened up to cope with the extra load. Just part of the bikes evolution.

In regards to what I would have done in relation to maintenance, I would have simply repaired or replaced the worn parts before they became problematic. I had my swing arm checked and re powder coated just because some of the coating had cracked off in places and I wanted to make sure there were no underlying problems.

I do not have a stealth but on my Giant DH Team with Doc's torque arms the axle of my 4065 was slightly loose so I used a sacrificial feeler gauge set and stuffed the largest size I could to remove the slop. I cut a piece off and put it in there and never got a bit of slop up until my son broke one side of the axle and the other side spun from the cheesy cheap metal the axles were made from.

Just an idea of what you could use to tighten up tolerances if need be.

For the record though, clamping drop outs are the shit!

Tom

Cowardlyduck said:

The only reason the axle was stripped was because of the bad design. The only reason the drop-outs were 'flogged' was because of the bad design.
Yeah I probably shouldn't have used Regen knowing the state of the axle, and admitted as much already.

I'm not the only one who has had problems with the dropouts and the small axles.

John what would you suggest is done differently to 'maintain' this part of the bike? I would be interested to see photo's of the condition of any other Fighters drop-outs that has over 10000km over 4 years like mine.

If the drop-out design is so splendid, why does it need the clamping block added?

Are there any other E-Bikes that have this same dropout design? I haven't seen any?

Cheers

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CD, not trying to pick an online argument here, but my Bomber that my dad is currently riding has over 10,000 total miles on that swingarm and about 6000 miles with the current 5404. Not one single problem has me or my dad had with this design. Granted, we don't use the regen braking as we both have also experience axle nuts loosening due to the minute play there is in the torque block and drop spacing during regen braking. But I can also tell you that regen braking has also loosend up clamping dropouts on one of the DIY bikes to the point where the rider stripped out the clamping block trying to tighten that thing down. Point is, a little mechanical sympathy and riding style adjustment is needed for trouble free operation. With exception of Mexican Batman, I haven't seen anyone as heavy as I am riding these machines over the type of crap I ride. I haven't had 1/10th the issues you have. Here is how we solve your axle problems. First, get a new axle. Use a torque wrench and don't exceed 45nm on your axle nuts. Always tighten the disk brake side axle nut first. When you tighten the disk brake side first, you rock the axle in the direction that it wants to move/rotate under power thus eliminating any freeplay between the axle flat, dropout, and torque block when you get on the throttle. And quite using regen. In fact disconnect the button. Just cause its there, it doesn't mean you got to use it. After your first ride, recheck your torque on the axle nuts. They will have loosned slightly so bring them back up to 45nm. Then as long as you don't use regen, they will not come loose and take a set until you remove the wheel. Before you say "I should be allowed to use regen because it came that way" Look at this way, just because my truck redlines at 6000 RPM, it doesn't mean I have to rev it to the limit and drive around in 1st gear when I can shift to 4th gear and do it at 1800 rpm driving around. If I did that, If I left it in 1st, my gas mileage would sink like the Titanic and I would blow the motor eventually. Like I said, not trying to argue with you, but your axle loosening problems can be resolved.

Rix way is the best way I think.
I've had more than 15000km on my fighter, not on the same hub though, but never had any problems with the axel nuts or threads. I check axel nuts/bolts, caliperbolts before every ride.
Torque check is something I do mabe once a month depending how much I ride the bike. Stupid to risk the hubmotor falling off at high speeds.
If it falls off..., it might be the one and only time...

I've not done as many miles on my unit as you fellas but someone once posted clean your bike often.. As you are cleaning you will come across things that are loose or need repair. Perhaps in your case check the torque specs after every ride. I use regen but only on paved downhills never in dirt. There are so many forces at work on that rear wheel that hitting regen in dirt would hop the rear all over creation… gud luck dewd…And nice road side repair! I'm officially adding a big ass wrench to my backpack tool kit….