Well, it seems I've hit a nerve or something with my previous comments. I was pretty pissed off at the whole situation yesterday so may have pointed the blame finger too harshly in Stealth's direction. I apologise if it seemed like I was twisting the truth at all.
It is still my opinion however that the design leaves a lot to be desired. I do also recognise that my situation is far from perfect and I have made a few mistakes myself along the way. Mainly that's over-tightening the axle nuts...it was the quick and 'easy' solution to the rotation issue...but clearly a mistake.
Kepler said:
I think in your case your dropouts started to flog out before the the torque blocks were introduced so I imagine it's a bit of an a cumulative situation. It was the regen feature that highlighted the need for torque blocks. Also tolerances on the torque arms were tightened up to cope with the extra load. Just part of the bikes evolution.
In regards to what I would have done in relation to maintenance, I would have simply repaired or replaced the worn parts before they became problematic. I had my swing arm checked and re powder coated just because some of the coating had cracked off in places and I wanted to make sure there were no underlying problems.
Yes, my drop-outs were flogged out before the axle clamping blocks were added. The thing is before that point in time (2012-2013), that 'flogging' occurred because the bike was used as supplied by Stealth in stock form. My Fighter (#66) was supplied with Regen from the outset...one of the first. I vaguely recall being told by Stealth (John K) that Regen was a feature they had been testing for some time prior to that point and only decided to introduce it after they were confident they would not see any issues with axle rotation. I lost count of the number of people reporting axle rotation issues on this thread because of Regen.
Yes the addition of the axle clamps helped, but in my case (and others I recall) it did not eliminate the problem. When I first reported my issues to Stealth (back in 2012) I was sent the newer (at the time) 'tighter tolerance' torque blocks. Again...didn't eliminate the problem for me. Then after complaining about it E-S member sent me some custom made aluminium axle clamps. That also helped, and even stopped it for a time, but not for ever...then Stealth started supplying axle clamps as well, so I got one of them...again seemed to help, but didn't eliminate the problem.
If I lived next door to Stealth like you John I probably would have had the parts checked and re-powdercoated, but most Stealth owners aren't in that situation and have to make do.
litespeed said:
I cut a piece off and put it in there and never got a bit of slop up until my son broke one side of the axle and the other side spun from the cheesy cheap metal the axles were made from.
Just an idea of what you could use to tighten up tolerances if need be.
For the record though, clamping drop outs are the shit!
Thanks Tom! Appreciate the helpful comment.
Slipping something into the gap is one of the few things I haven't tried yet. How did you manage to squeeze it in there? I can't see how I could get anything in there...I can't even see a gap!
Rix said:
CD, not trying to pick an online argument here, but my Bomber that my dad is currently riding has over 10,000 total miles on that swingarm and about 6000 miles with the current 5404. Not one single problem has me or my dad had with this design. Granted, we don't use the regen braking as we both have also experience axle nuts loosening due to the minute play there is in the torque block and drop spacing during regen braking. But I can also tell you that regen braking has also loosend up clamping dropouts on one of the DIY bikes to the point where the rider stripped out the clamping block trying to tighten that thing down. Point is, a little mechanical sympathy and riding style adjustment is needed for trouble free operation. With exception of Mexican Batman, I haven't seen anyone as heavy as I am riding these machines over the type of crap I ride. I haven't had 1/10th the issues you have. Here is how we solve your axle problems. First, get a new axle. Use a torque wrench and don't exceed 45nm on your axle nuts. Always tighten the disk brake side axle nut first. When you tighten the disk brake side first, you rock the axle in the direction that it wants to move/rotate under power thus eliminating any freeplay between the axle flat, dropout, and torque block when you get on the throttle. And quite using regen. In fact disconnect the button. Just cause its there, it doesn't mean you got to use it. After your first ride, recheck your torque on the axle nuts. They will have loosned slightly so bring them back up to 45nm. Then as long as you don't use regen, they will not come loose and take a set until you remove the wheel. Before you say "I should be allowed to use regen because it came that way" Look at this way, just because my truck redlines at 6000 RPM, it doesn't mean I have to rev it to the limit and drive around in 1st gear when I can shift to 4th gear and do it at 1800 rpm driving around. If I did that, If I left it in 1st, my gas mileage would sink like the Titanic and I would blow the motor eventually. Like I said, not trying to argue with you, but your axle loosening problems can be resolved.
Rix, I think your situation doesn't really apply to me as for one your high mileage is on your Bomber...which is a Bomber...not a Fighter, so the axle diameter is different. I believe the small axle on the HS40xx motors is one of the key contributing factors into all these issues. There just isn't enough meat on the things for the design used on the Fighters drop-outs if Regen is going to be used IMO. A correct design would factor in the small axle of the HS40xx motors or use a different axle.
Also, you say you don't use Regen on either bike...I think if I hadn't used Regen I wouldn't have half the issues I'm now seeing, but that's not the point...these bikes were marketed, and sold with Regen...the design should also allow it. For me Regen is essential, both for the extra range it gives and the great braking effect...I will do everything I can to keep it as an option.
1abv said:
gud luck dewd…And nice road side repair! I'm officially adding a big ass wrench to my backpack tool kit….
LOL at least I have had that benefit in posting. :lol:
I've been carrying a small spanner big enough for the 1/2" nuts for some time now. I'm so glad I did on this occasion or we wouldn't have been able to loosen off the nuts to get the wheel back on.
I'm also glad I had that tape and some zip ties...when the wheel fell off it popped off all the zip ties holding the cable on, so we had to secure it back on afterwards, although I didn't have enough zip ties to do the job...hence the tape.
remf said:
CD haven’t you modified your Fighter massively including adding an Adaptto controller, high voltage pack and a derailleur? The Adaptto & high voltage alone could be the reason for your issues. More power, more powerful regen. With such a powerful bike, you need to pay even closer attention to proper maintenance. How long have you had your bike? 4 years or more? That’s considerable wear & tear with such power over that timeframe.
I can see why you would be confused remf...I'm chopping and changing my set-up a lot lately. My Adaptto hasn't yet run the bike for more than a few laps around the back yard. It was just repaired under warranty and just arrived back to me last week...haven't re-mounted it yet. It's a Mini-E though, so not really more power than the stock set-up...just more efficient and silent.
Right now, and yesterday when this accident occurred, the bike was essentially a stock set-up. Stock 16S LifeP04 pack, 18Fet Infineon (limited to 50A), HS4080. The only exception was the forced air cooling fan mod to the motor which bares no relevance to this issue.
Yes, I've (briefly) run higher power (5KW) previously, but I nearly smoked my HS4065 doing it, so it didn't last long. The dropout/axle issues occurred way before any of that anyway.
remf said:
Also I don’t think regen was available then…did you install it yourself? You certainly seem to be having a LOT of issues especially with axle stripping. I haven’t had that issue since the installation of the torque clamp and have always tightened brake side first with 45 Nm as Rick says.
Wrong. Mine was one of the first to come stock with Regen at the very end of 2011.
remf said:
With the greatest respect, apart from the huge mods, this suggests that maybe you’re doing something wrong. I hardly ever have to think about making any adjustments but I still do a preflight before every ride. Very puzzling that you’ve had this many problems. I really don’t believe this has anything to do with design. If it is a design issue then why does it seem to be just your bike? I’ve never seen or heard of a wheel falling off before and can’t see how you can, in all seriousness, blame Stealth.
Appreciate the 'great respect', but I think you are wrong here. Read Rix post just above...he can't use Regen any more because he had axle rotation issues. I know that you've been following this thread for a long time Remf...surely you remember all the other people with axle rotation issues...it's not just me!
Rix said:
CD, I was waiting for you to report back on this, did this not work or what? I was hoping the heat shrink would have worked. :?
LOL :lol: My apologies for never following up on that...it didn't work. The forces at play are way too much for heat shrink to do anything. It just crushed/cut and didn't do anything really. As you can see though...I've been trying different things to address this issue for a while, but so far nothing has worked.
I've now tried so many things to address this issue I've lost count...that's why I'm saying I think it's the design. I'm happy for that to just be my opinion if that's all it is...but it's mine to share and up to others if they want to listen or not.
Hyena said:
Yeah I'm with the others here CD.
So yeah, as per above...think I've addressed everything you've mentioned already, so I won't rehash it.
Anyway...on another note. I still think Stealth bikes are great...when they work...and this is the short video of what Conrad (kiwiev) and I got up to before my rear wheel fell off. Enjoy.
[youtube]-PGOnC_7bJA[/youtube]
Cheers
