Rodney64
100 kW
I'm going to use a derailer on the rear. Thanks for posting the pick Kepler. I might try the same type of shifter on the left side.
Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics
- Thread starter Hyena
- Start date
Rix
100 TW
Hyena said:Re:
Other initial thoughts: These are a pretty tall bike. I haven't fitted the BB yet but with a 26" wheel set and 220mm shock in its lowest position and seat all the way down I can't flat foot the bike (I'm 5'8) I can flat foot if I slip down onto the 'dip' in the frame but as it is this is too tall for me for the sort of offroading I like to do so I will have to experiment with the lower shock settings.
Re: stems, I prefer them as short and stubby as possible, both for handling and aesthetics. Alot of triple clamp forks run direct mount stems so I try to get as close to this as possible (on this build I AM using a direct mount stem, but these aren't available for the DNMs that I normally use)
Rix, not sure what motor and controller combo I'll be running yet. Pictured is a H40 in 26" wheel just thrown on for size. I will certainly be putting together multiple configs to go with these ranging from H40s (or even smaller for those observing CDnomics) up to cromotors. The H40 running ~5kw (ala my hadron kit) would make a sweet power:weight package with around a 15ah battery, or the mxus or crown pushing more. I'm leaning towards setting up my own personal Flux with an adaptto maxi and crown or MXUS3k and approximately a 20ah battery. Big power when you want it, mid range weight so it's manageable to lift over things but also enough range to go on long rides too. The other 2 bikes to round out my stable will be:
* A lighter weight single track machine with smaller battery, single crown forks and geared motor - basically an updated version of my blue timma cut and shut specialized fsr (very similar to Keplers fighter, even down to the colour, though completely unintentional!)
* A heavy duty brawler - basically an edirt bike - raptor with 35ah battery, moto rims front and rear and a cro running 12kw.
If I could only pick one bike it would be the flux in the above config but I've already got the others and, well, a pimp has to have a stable of hoes
Rod I think running the max e is overkill for a H40, the mini would deliver as much power as it'll comfortably take. But I know you've already go the max and with temp monitoring they'll take more it in short bursts. We saw the smoke show that resulted from me shoving that sort of power into one for 5 minutes fairly continuously with no temp sensor
Jay, I will be running the gear in this pic on the Flux A. 16s 25amp battery with 25r cells, total 160 cells or maybe 20amps for a grand total of 128 cells. I know its been talked about, but has anyone definitively figured how much battery from 18650 cells can fit in the Flux. I was originally going to go with more cells and bigger battery, still might, but what ever I do, 16s (67V Hot) is the series I am staying with. Allex got 70 Km/h on his old Bomber splitting his pack in half (42V Hot) with OVS on 7 with his 5403. For those looking to keep speeds around 70-80km/h, 12s-14s on just about any motor with a 3t or 4t stator is doable with the Max E. I got the MXUS 4t and running 16s should give me close to 85Km/h. One day when I get everything together, will find out for sure. Another note, when you sit on the Flux, does it feel bigger, or more roomier than the Fighter/Bomber in relationship of the head tube to seat tube to BB? In the pics, it looks like it would which is what I am hoping for. At 5'11" I am not tall by any means, but if I could size the fighter frame to fit me perfect, I would increase the distance between the head tube and seat by 1" and move the BB location forward 1/2" as well as increasing the BB seat tube height by 1/2".
Kepler
10 MW
If i was making a pack for this bike, I think l would build two 16S5P packs and connect them in parallel.
A 16S5P pack built using the plastic spacer blocks would be 320mm long x 100mm wide x 75mm high so two of these would fit into the 320mm x 160mm hole Hyena showed in the main thread.
You could also squeeze in 16S6P pack in and stack these two high for a total of 192 cells for an 1800Whr pack.
I like the idea of 2 separate packs so you can opt to run a single pack if you know you don't need massive range on the day.
My understanding is that the MaxE takes care of BMS duties so you just would need to run balancing leads externally from the pack (I presume)
A 16S5P pack built using the plastic spacer blocks would be 320mm long x 100mm wide x 75mm high so two of these would fit into the 320mm x 160mm hole Hyena showed in the main thread.
You could also squeeze in 16S6P pack in and stack these two high for a total of 192 cells for an 1800Whr pack.
I like the idea of 2 separate packs so you can opt to run a single pack if you know you don't need massive range on the day.
My understanding is that the MaxE takes care of BMS duties so you just would need to run balancing leads externally from the pack (I presume)
Rix
100 TW
Kepler said:
Yah Kep, the Max E comes with a 28s BMS board that will handle balance charge duties. I may just split the difference and go with 16s 8P and keep the weight down and still have 1100wh usable. That's only going to be 5.5C for the cells and that's burst, and shouldn't be too taxing on the cells.
Rodney64
100 kW
I have taken some measurements for those that are interested
In the photo below the standover heights 730mm
Edit: with the 220ml shock its 700
Middle of the stem to the middle of the seat tubes 580mm
Ground to the bottom brackets 400mm
That's with the Shrinko sr241 in 17" front and back and with the 250mm shock in its bottom setting
In the photo below the standover heights 730mm
Edit: with the 220ml shock its 700
Middle of the stem to the middle of the seat tubes 580mm
Ground to the bottom brackets 400mm
That's with the Shrinko sr241 in 17" front and back and with the 250mm shock in its bottom setting
Rix
100 TW
That looks really awesome with the 3.00-17 SR241 front and rear. I mean really tough. You got me rethinking my wheel choice. Dam it Rod, I had it all figured out....until now.
Allex
100 MW
Thx for the thread! About the rear iso brake points, does every rotor fit even when you cannot slide to adjust?
voicecoils
1 MW
Allex said:
For each size rotor, you'll need the matching brake adaptor.
The swingarm uses a common mount called the IS side mount or tab mount.
Let's say you were mounting a 203mm DH rotor on your wheel, then you'd use Magura adapter QM-9 with their brakes or Shimano adapter SM-MA-R203P/S with Shimano for example.
voicecoils
1 MW
Rix said:
Yeah, that's a nice setup.
* big shock with 3" stroke - good for handling the hubmotor weight without packing it in
* 17" moped wheels have great strength compared to bicycle rims but still lighter than 19" moped rims. Also lets you go for a wider tyre without it weighing a ton.
* ground clearance is looking good. Once static sag is set for the rider's weight it would be worth re-checking ground clearance to make sure no pedal-strike surprises when the shock is under compression while cornering.
Rix
100 TW
voicecoils said:
Yah! my sentiments exactly!
voicecoils
1 MW
Last comment from me tonight.
Anyone planning to run a singlespeed drivetrain and thinking about chain tensioners due to the vertical dropouts, it's worth remembering that the bottom bracket is on the swingarm so the the chainlength will not change throughout the suspension travel. So, you don't need a big multi-pulley tensioner to deal with chain growth. Instead you just need something that will take up half a link's slack and to keep tension as the chain stretches.
A DIY option can be made by bolting an old V-brake arm to the hanger mount and putting an old pulley on the other end:
Or you can buy something that does the same thing:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=62800&category=2622
Anyone planning to run a singlespeed drivetrain and thinking about chain tensioners due to the vertical dropouts, it's worth remembering that the bottom bracket is on the swingarm so the the chainlength will not change throughout the suspension travel. So, you don't need a big multi-pulley tensioner to deal with chain growth. Instead you just need something that will take up half a link's slack and to keep tension as the chain stretches.
A DIY option can be made by bolting an old V-brake arm to the hanger mount and putting an old pulley on the other end:
Or you can buy something that does the same thing:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=62800&category=2622
Hyena
10 GW
As Kep said if you use the standard 18650 assembly blocks they're about 21mm wide so unfortunately you won't fit the cells 6 wide if you use those. I actually spent all last night trawling for assembly blocks and managed to find some that were narrower a 78mm for a 4S block which would be perfect to fit the cells 6 wide if they made wider equivalent but thus far I haven't been able to find one. Failing that if the cells are just welded directly you'll fit wide easily. Length the same story with the dimensions I posted.Rix said:
I still like 21S though the game has changed now with sine wave controllers and their boost/ovs features. I'm going to do some experimenting and see if H4065/TC65 is a better all round motor now - more efficient down low but OVS bringing the top end speed when you need it.
It's a big hard to say for sure - A because I haven't got the fighter any more to do a direct comparison and B there's alot of other variables. I'm running a 26" wheel set currently and as per my previous post it's slightly too big for me. The akwardness of sitting on a bike with a seat post that's too tall kinda overrides the other things.
On another note, when I asked JK about what spring weight he suggested he said he was running a 650lb and it felt a bit rigid so he thought a 550 would be a better choice. I have a 450lb in mine currently and I wouldn't want it any harder. Infact I'm hoping it is a bit softer when I move the mounts to drop it down a little.
Here's some comparison pics for you though Rix. Sigmacom dropped around today to come check out hte new hotness so I took the opportunity to snap some shots against his bomber.
It should be noted he's running a 17" moto rear wheel and stock 24" front wheel vs my 26" front and rear.
View attachment 4
Also compared here is the flux against a raptor with a 19" moto wheel set front and rear. The raptor BB is a heap lower, even with a much longer shock (276mm vs 220)
My little apprentice helped out for this one
Rod, yours is looking really nice with that 17" wheel set! I didn't like them on the raptor, I thought they were too small for the bike and made the proportions all wrong, but they look good on the flux. It was meant to be
Interestingly I just measured my BB clearance with the 26" wheel set and I'm spot on 400mm too! I guess your longer shock compensates perfectly for the smaller OD wheels. Voicecoils, nice tip with the V brake arm hack
Samd
10 MW
Was a bit surprised to see that the rear swinger was narrower than imagined. Had a 19" moto rim all laced up and a 3.75" wide trials / speedway tyre (soft for offroad) ready to go. Compared to the phasor in my garage there's about an inch less width.
Might have to go the radial laced 24" 50mm or 75mm wide rim with Berm Masters. Don't really want to run 80v 80a into a radial lacing.
Guess I can still find a narrower rear moto tyre. Thas was going to be my dirt pig. Might just shoehorn it in yet.
Might have to go the radial laced 24" 50mm or 75mm wide rim with Berm Masters. Don't really want to run 80v 80a into a radial lacing.
Guess I can still find a narrower rear moto tyre. Thas was going to be my dirt pig. Might just shoehorn it in yet.
voicecoils
1 MW
Samd said:
Ha. I should never have said 'last post' above.
Have you considered doing a paired hole radial lace? ebikes.ca spoke calculator makes it easy to model and you can see a MXUS with it done here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66625#p1002275 Then you'll have adequate spoke angle for wheel strength at high current even though the spokes won't cross.
Hyena
10 GW
Yeah I found the same when I overly optimistically went to see if a 26x4" fat bike tyre would fit. The answer is nooo.Samd said:
Ah, I've been eyeing them off too! I figured 3.75" would be too wide anyway. You'll fit a 19x2.75 or 19x3 - I tried to throw on a cro last night with this tyre and it fitted the swing arm but the axle spacing/wiring exit/disc brake clearance was problematic. I have a spare 19x2.75 shinko 244 copy here if you get stuck.
Rix
100 TW
Samd said:
Don't give up on the moto rim just because your tire won't fit. There are several other options out there trials tires and knobby tires wise to get you up and going. Obiviously the 2.75-19 SR241 or 244 will fit, along with the VEE Rubber VRM021 2.75-19. Knobby wise a 70/100x19 Bridgestone M403 and a 2.50-19 Bridgestone M23 will all fit like a glove.
Rix
100 TW
Hyena said:Rix said:IIt's a big hard to say for sure - A because I haven't got the fighter any more to do a direct comparison and B there's alot of other variables. I'm running a 26" wheel set currently and as per my previous post it's slightly too big for me. The akwardness of sitting on a bike with a seat post that's too tall kinda overrides the other things.
On another note, when I asked JK about what spring weight he suggested he said he was running a 650lb and it felt a bit rigid so he thought a 550 would be a better choice. I have a 450lb in mine currently and I wouldn't want it any harder. Infact I'm hoping it is a bit softer when I move the mounts to drop it down a little.
Here's some comparison pics for you though Rix. Sigmacom dropped around today to come check out hte new hotness so I took the opportunity to snap some shots against his bomber.
It should be noted he's running a 17" moto rear wheel and stock 24" front wheel vs my 26" front and rear
Also compared here is the flux against a raptor with a 19" moto wheel set front and rear. The raptor BB is a heap lower, even with a much longer shock (276mm vs 220)
My little apprentice helped out for this one
[]ooking really nice with that 17" wheel set! I didn't like them on the raptor, I thought they were too small for the bike and made the proportions all wrong, but they look good on the flux. It was meant to be
Voicecoils, nice tip with the V brake arm hack
Well that's official, I am going to be switching from the 18x1.4 rim to the 17x1.4 rim on my Flux. Still running the 19 on the front though. between the BB height, ground clearance, and how cool rods wheels look, don't see another option. Well I see lots of options but for me this the way to go. Jay, thanks for all of the comparo pics, gives a great idea whats going on since I don't have mine in hand just yet. That's cool seeing the Flux next to the older pre 2011 generation Bomber Sigmacom is piloting. Kind of shows an evolution in progress.
Samd
10 MW
I like the kick in the top surface of the frame - reference the photo next to Sigmacom's bike.
It does make it hard to bolt a controller with 90mm wide PCB directly to the top surface inside though - I think if I remove the keyswitch I might be able to sneak one up in there leaving the main box section free for batts. The rails inside the top of the box are about 25mm wide each side. If this were bought down to say 15mm there would be a good chance of dropping a narrow/long controller between without de-casing it.
Last night I glued some magnets up to a 118mm wide 24 fet. I should be able to hang it from the top rails until i work out which controller position I want. For now its 80v 80a into a 4T Mxus. This should make a nice long range workhorse for exploring the local goldfields compared to my smaller 1kwhr and down bikes...
It does make it hard to bolt a controller with 90mm wide PCB directly to the top surface inside though - I think if I remove the keyswitch I might be able to sneak one up in there leaving the main box section free for batts. The rails inside the top of the box are about 25mm wide each side. If this were bought down to say 15mm there would be a good chance of dropping a narrow/long controller between without de-casing it.
Last night I glued some magnets up to a 118mm wide 24 fet. I should be able to hang it from the top rails until i work out which controller position I want. For now its 80v 80a into a 4T Mxus. This should make a nice long range workhorse for exploring the local goldfields compared to my smaller 1kwhr and down bikes...
Rodney64
100 kW
drew12345 said:
It's a no name square tappered crank set 44t with a chain guard. I removed it off a Fixe that I had in the back shed.
Rix said:Hyena said:ooking really nice with that 17" wheel set! I didn't like them on the raptor, I thought they were too small for the bike and made the proportions all wrong, but they look good on the flux. It was meant to be
Voicecoils, nice tip with the V brake arm hack
Well that's official, I am going to be switching from the 18x1.4 rim to the 17x1.4 rim on my Flux. Still running the 19 on the front though. between the BB height, ground clearance, and how cool rods wheels look, don't see another option. Well I see lots of options but for me this the way to go. Jay, thanks for all of the comparo pics, gives a great idea whats going on since I don't have mine in hand just yet. That's cool seeing the Flux next to the older pre 2011 generation Bomber Sigmacom is piloting. Kind of shows an evolution in progress.
Wait until the frame arrives rick before making the decision. currently I still have 10ml either side with the tyre.
Samd
10 MW
I was eyeing that off sometime back and forgot about it - thanks Abraham. Might be a goer. I assume you have to drill the middle holes yourself - this wouldnt be too hard to make up a gauge that drops into the existing holes and has a couple of pilot guide holes. I've got some radial spokes that are about 2mm too long from memory - might nearly make a nice match.voicecoils said:
More thinking...
Jay, failing the above I may take you up on the offer of the shinko. I was asking my LBS (who do trials bike sales) about shinko, sounds like the aussie importer got out of them, or went broke, or something. Bugger.
Rodney64
100 kW
Samd said:
Darknight purchased a heap of tyres. But he's not opening his messages.
Hyena
10 GW
Yeah the frame kink is nice, room for switches and other stuff too if you so desire. I'm looking at seeing if I can make one of those basic LCD voltage/ capacity gauges fit in there and clear the battery for people who are budget concious and don't want a CA or similar.
Apparently the Aussie dealer is quoting ridiculous prices to import them, like $200 odd. Sounds like they're basically just importing single units from the US then charging double for their efforts.
Yeah I was talking to Sigmacom about this yesterday, he needs some 17s and was looking to grab some from the US if you wanna buy more.Samd said:
Apparently the Aussie dealer is quoting ridiculous prices to import them, like $200 odd. Sounds like they're basically just importing single units from the US then charging double for their efforts.
He's the tyre importer ES deserves but not the one it needs.Rodney64 said:
Allex
100 MW
Rix said:
All those pictures, making me want to buy this frame as well!
Rick see if you can fit 18s in there. While OVS is pretty neat it is better to use it as little as possible. While the bike will go faster with it enabled, it will have less torque and the motor will run less efficient.
Hyena
10 GW
You snooze you lose Alex
So you think running a slower wind for offroad efficiency and flicking into boost mode with higher values for OVS when you need more speed is the way to go ? That seems logical to me but everyone seems to be just running around with OVS maxed out these days
So you think running a slower wind for offroad efficiency and flicking into boost mode with higher values for OVS when you need more speed is the way to go ? That seems logical to me but everyone seems to be just running around with OVS maxed out these days