The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
User avatar
docnjoj   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5787
Joined: Sep 29 2007 5:26pm
Location: Fairhope AL

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by docnjoj » Oct 05 2015 8:19am

Your work is becoming much more clean and professional each year. Great job, AW.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 10 2015 10:35pm

DAND214 wrote:Is this guy AMAZING or what?
He worries more about his dogs than most worry about anything.
I LOVE DOGS!!!
Thanks--I dunno if I'm amazing for that, but I do worry about them. :) And I love them too.

docnjoj wrote:Your work is becoming much more clean and professional each year. Great job, AW.
Thanks--I am not exactly sure when and why I decided to do things more cleanly, but I guess I did, at some point. I still don't do them nearly as cleanly as I would really like to, partly from lack of time/materials, partly from laziness. :oops:



I got another super-cheap LED aquarium light at work on clearance, to install inside the kennel/crate/itself, for lighting up the whole interior.

Partly this is to make it easier to see inside it at night for packing/unpacking cargo, or getting the dogs in and out.

Partly it is to make the trike itself (and the dogs, when riding in it) more visible to traffic.

It's wired directly up to power right now, though it will get a separate switch at some point, like all the other lights.

I'd also like to put a hinged or slide-able red cover over it, to preclude anyone having issues with white light at the rear (even though it is impossible to see the light source, it fully lights up the entire inside of the kennel/crate, brightly), in any situations or places where there might be a rule or law about that. Presently, it isn't an issue, as it's no different than the other white downlighting I've used for so long on CrazyBike2, Delta Tripper, etc.

Presently it's just ziptied to the inside of the top of the crate itself.


First below are pics of the new light, then after that are pics of the mirror-mounted turn signals.
Attachments
IMG_2873.JPG
IMG_2873.JPG (37.03 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2876.JPG
IMG_2876.JPG (20.39 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2872.JPG
IMG_2872.JPG (38.44 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2855.JPG
IMG_2855.JPG (40.26 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2856.JPG
IMG_2856.JPG (37.08 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2858.JPG
IMG_2858.JPG (38.07 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2859.JPG
IMG_2859.JPG (35.57 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2860.JPG
IMG_2860.JPG (17.43 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2861.JPG
IMG_2861.JPG (23.69 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2863.JPG
IMG_2863.JPG (37.84 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2864.JPG
IMG_2864.JPG (38.53 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2866.JPG
IMG_2866.JPG (21.67 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2867.JPG
IMG_2867.JPG (23.6 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2869.JPG
IMG_2869.JPG (18.24 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2870.JPG
IMG_2870.JPG (40.83 KiB) Viewed 2510 times
IMG_2871.JPG
IMG_2871.JPG (68.92 KiB) Viewed 2510 times

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 14 2015 9:48pm

Mmmmm....the doublesided foam tape holding the turn signals to the mirror casings...didn't. :/ Today it was a bit over 100F past midday, in the parking lot at work (and a lot hotter in the direct sun), and when i got off work this afternoon, the righthand turn signal was dangling by it's wires, with all the adhesive on the foam just dried out as if it had never been there. :/

I'll try gorilla glue as a short-term solution, which might last or might not.


So as a longterm solution, I'll need to make some brackets to secure them to the mirrors, I guess.

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3189
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by DAND214 » Oct 14 2015 10:59pm


DAND214 wrote:
Is this guy AMAZING or what?
He worries more about his dogs than most worry about anything.
I LOVE DOGS!!!
Thanks--I dunno if I'm amazing for that, but I do worry about them. :) And I love them too.
You are amazing for what you do with your bikes AND how you care for your dogs. I wish I could build like you have. Putting it together, take it apart and back together till you get it right.

May not be the a Rolls but they are very interesting and functional.
Oh I forgot, the rough look that keeps the thieves away.
Don't take that as a baad thing, because it's not.

Dan

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 22 2015 4:22am

It's been pretty rainy the last several days, off and on, including some quarter-sized hail yesterday late morning, and then it really poured rain for a while, tailing off as I was on the way to work.

Rode to work in the rain a few times now, and home in it a couple; the trike performs pretty well even in puddles and "lakes"; didn't have any trouble with the throttles yet, even though I keep forgetting to "bag" the handlebars while riding (I do keep a big plastic bag over the bars, and a nother over the seat, whn it's just parked at home, and it is parked in the breakroom at work).

Wet roads don't let the front wheel do much braking without skidding, so I have to use the electric braking on the rear wheels to do any quick braking. I wonder: if I could lock out the front suspension during braking, would it brake better?

I *am* sure that the fork's internal looseness that lets it wiggle fore/aft doesnt' help, but dunno that I can fix that without a different fork (much better than I have money for, or custom building that one I talked about earlier in the thread (which would let me lock it out easily enough, I think, if that would do anything).





DAND214 wrote:You are amazing for what you do with your bikes AND how you care for your dogs. I wish I could build like you have. Putting it together, take it apart and back together till you get it right.
Or at least...taking it apart and mostly putting it back together...in some slightly (or radically) different way. :lol:

I think that anyone could build like I do; I just hack at stuff that looks like it sort of fits together in a way that looks useful, until it actually does something like what I wanted it to do. :oops: Sometimes it turns out better than usual, mostly it doesn't work as intended...the first few times.

May not be the a Rolls but they are very interesting and functional.
Oh I forgot, the rough look that keeps the thieves away.
Don't take that as a baad thing, because it's not.
It does help, I think--though it's not nearly as rough-looking as I used to keep them. :)

I'd *like* to have nice-looking things...but I'm pretty hard on stuff, and nothing is ever really finished, so I often undo my own work to "fix" things or just to experiment.

User avatar
1JohnFoster   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 316
Joined: Feb 16 2011 12:56am
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by 1JohnFoster » Oct 22 2015 12:31pm

amberwolf wrote:Wet roads don't let the front wheel do much braking without skidding, so I have to use the electric braking on the rear wheels to do any quick braking. I wonder: if I could lock out the front suspension during braking, would it brake better?
I *am* sure that the fork's internal looseness that lets it wiggle fore/aft doesnt' help..
I think any suspension that actually moves at all (up & down) improves traction, unless it is so underdamped that the wheel bounces. (I've had that!) Is it the struts that are loose, or the headset?

Reducing tire pressure a bit helps traction. Each tire has curves for of loading weight vs pressure for maximum traction.

I remember when I sort of felt embarrassed to be riding a bike at all (in a non-sporty sort of way) as an adult- in the 80's & 90's. People associated bikes only with kids, and were confused and embarrassed for me, always offering me rides. Now it's very fashionable in Vancouver, for a certain type of person anyway. Maybe if enough people stop being embarrassed about the functional workmanship and lack of gloss of their reuse efforts we can make "custom" and DIY be fashionable again like it was when we were kids.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 22 2015 2:49pm

1JohnFoster wrote:I think any suspension that actually moves at all (up & down) improves traction, unless it is so underdamped that the wheel bounces. (I've had that!)
On non-smooth road surfaces, I agree with that; I'm just not sure about wet but smooth ones--the only thing the suspension does in that case is allow the wheel to be "pushed away" from the surface as the spring is compressed during braking.

And since this thing is such a cheap old fork, it also does bounce on wet surface braking, both from the fore/aft wiggle and from the lack of damping (it's just a spring).

I do not know but I suspect that if there were no compression during braking the wheel could press harder against the road surface, and have at least a little more braking power before skidding.

I tried a little searching about it on the web, but find conflicting opinions (as with most things), and haven't had time to look for actual research into it.


Is it the struts that are loose, or the headset?
Struts--the plastic rings and whatnot that keep the outer tubes from wiggling back and forth on the inner tubes are all worn out, possibly even missing by now; this is an old cheap RST fork that I used for a long time on CrazyBike2 before I put it on this trike. I'd go without suspension at all but it does help with the numerous potholes and driveway entrances around here, a little bit. Rather have a much better fork but I'll have to build it from experiments as the only slightly better fork I've got is on CB2 and staying there. ;)


Reducing tire pressure a bit helps traction. Each tire has curves for of loading weight vs pressure for maximum traction.
Yes, I have it at about 20PSI right now, which seems to be the best balance from experimentation, between worry of rim or tire/tube damage from potholes, and braking traction. However, I have no idea what the actual curves are for any of these tires; havent' ever seen that data available for bicycle tires.

The rear tires are much higher, about 55PSI or so, but they also have almost all the weight on them.

I remember when I sort of felt embarrassed to be riding a bike at all (in a non-sporty sort of way) as an adult- in the 80's & 90's. People associated bikes only with kids, and were confused and embarrassed for me, always offering me rides. Now it's very fashionable in Vancouver, for a certain type of person anyway. Maybe if enough people stop being embarrassed about the functional workmanship and lack of gloss of their reuse efforts we can make "custom" and DIY be fashionable again like it was when we were kids.
Maybe. There are quite a few that like what I do, but very few that would even consider riding something like it around, regardless of what it looks like (but many that definitely wouldn't be caught dead in something that wasn't sparkly-factory-made-looking).

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 23 2015 1:11pm

On my way home from work last night, I encountered a complete blockade at the south exit of Metrocenter; many police SUVs and a couple of their cars, plus a command station van, surrounding some sort of massive accident with a crushed car, minivan, and some other vehicles I couldn't see clearly. They were loading up on of them on a flatbed. Police were talking with some people on the sidewalk, so I coudln't even use that to go home. Even the canal entrance was blocked off.

Lots of angry people on the road, trying to exit Metrocenter after a long day at work in the area (there's only four real street exits from it, at the cardinal points, so if one is blocked off, it's at least a couple of miles to several miles detour to get back to where you would normally have come out at from the other exit, depending on which one you have to use instead, and if anything is going on there, either.

Since one of the canals can take me back to a point I can then go around back streets to get to 35th ave, to then go south a slight bit to get to the canal path to the Cortez Park bike path system, that can take me south to Dunlap and thence home, I headed back on Metro Parkway to do that, but when I got to the canal path entrance, it was also blocked off by a security golf cart and another official truck.

I ended up having to go halfway back up to Cheryl, then out to the residential area and the southernmost street there, out to 35th Ave, and take the sidewalk for the short distance to the other canal to get to Cortez Park.

When I got to Dunlap, there were things going on there, too, so I had to stay on the sidewalk cuz traffic was "angry", until I got to a side street I could take to go home. Took about 45 minutes in all, for the detour, instead of the 10-minute or so normal trip.

Overall, took 7.8Ah for the trip according to the Satiator charging result, vs the usual 4.something Ah, but with a fair bit of it much slower than normal (either from traffic, or sidewalk riding) so the trip was probably around 6+ miles total, instead of the usual 2.4.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 28 2015 3:07am

Whoops. :/
IMG_2887.JPG
IMG_2887.JPG (73.61 KiB) Viewed 2464 times

Thankfully, this happened just AFTER I got home, not during the ride home--I'd just ridden thru the gate to the backyard, stopped, and gotten off to lock the gate, and when I let go of the handlebars, they just dropped down, cracked at the bend.
IMG_2886.JPG
IMG_2886.JPG (77.2 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
I've been keeping an eye on it because of the hole I drilled in it to pass the cabling thru, which is at the inside elbow of the bend, weakening it, but have never seen a problem AFAICT, till now.

I expected a problem because even though no vertical strain is normally placed on it there by riding it, when I get up off it I often put some weight on it, pulling it down, stressing that point.
IMG_2889.JPG
IMG_2889.JPG (40.13 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2891.JPG
IMG_2891.JPG (50.93 KiB) Viewed 2464 times

A fix was pretty easy, and quick, though I couldn't do it the way I wanted to, because of the cabling routed thru the tube that I didn't wanna have to cut and redo.


What I wanted to do was put new tubing over the old, and weld along it, including a "cover" over the entry that crosses the hole vertically, but doing that would almost certainly melt the cabling inside, if I didn't remove it first. (whcih would all take too long to do tonight, and I kinda need it for tomorrow's work commute (still have CB2 but should have some boxes to take home tomorrow taht won't fit on CB2)).



What I did do, decided in just a moment of consideration, was just grab a couple scraps of 1/2" square tubing, notch them to fit the tiller tube, and tack them onto the existing tube at the "top" (rear) end, with them inserted into and tightly against the 1" square tubing that supports the headlight and turn signals.

Tehn I turned the water hose on dribble, and held it handy while welding parts of the tubing together, cooling every weld immediately and welding only a few seconds at a time, to keep from damaging the cabling that's thru the tiller tube.


When done, it is now very sturdy, not wiggly, and ugly as heck, but that's ok. At least it won't come off in my hands while riding. ;)
Attachments
IMG_2892.JPG
IMG_2892.JPG (54.83 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2893.JPG
IMG_2893.JPG (50.95 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2894.JPG
IMG_2894.JPG (26.8 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2894.JPG
IMG_2894.JPG (26.8 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2895.JPG
IMG_2895.JPG (42.87 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2896.JPG
IMG_2896.JPG (47.76 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2897.JPG
IMG_2897.JPG (28.14 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2898.JPG
IMG_2898.JPG (47.55 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2899.JPG
IMG_2899.JPG (59.51 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2901.JPG
IMG_2901.JPG (48.18 KiB) Viewed 2464 times
IMG_2902.JPG
IMG_2902.JPG (35.08 KiB) Viewed 2464 times

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 35078
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by dogman dan » Oct 28 2015 7:57am

Guess my pipe bender is no good for frame steel. Good to know, I've been collecting old steel road bikes for material. Forget bending it.

But since then, my neighbor gave me about 150' of half by half square tube. When it gets too cold for riding, I'll be welding up something weird.

User avatar
bowlofsalad   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1540
Joined: Feb 01 2013 10:28pm
Location: Midwest, USA

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by bowlofsalad » Oct 28 2015 8:56am

I couldn't do it the way I wanted to
I kinda need it for tomorrow's work commute (still have CB2 but should have some boxes to take home tomorrow taht won't fit on CB2)).
Is it possible to expand the carrying capacity of your trailer and add a hitch to CB2 (I am assuming you haven't already added the hitch)? If nothing else, you might do this in the near future to protect yourself against this sort of issue.

User avatar
1JohnFoster   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 316
Joined: Feb 16 2011 12:56am
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by 1JohnFoster » Oct 28 2015 1:59pm

amberwolf wrote:Whoops. :/
That's hilarious! All's well that ends well. Is it stable to ride no hands? If it ever does break again, could you just coast to a stop? Looks like you learned welding from the same school I did, koodos on your persistence. I gave up and turned to using wood and fiberglass, everything I ever welded broke.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 28 2015 3:21pm

dogman dan wrote:Guess my pipe bender is no good for frame steel. Good to know, I've been collecting old steel road bikes for material. Forget bending it.

Oh, no, it bent just fine, not damaged by the bender. You can bend the road bike steel just fine that way.

The problem is as I noted, the hole I drilled for the wires/cables to go thru the tiller tube to the handlebars, because I stupidly did that right at the inner elbow of teh bend, and then used the bars to hold onto while getting on and off the trike over the last half year, which is a load it wasn't intended to take and puts all the stress right at the hole. :/



But since then, my neighbor gave me about 150' of half by half square tube. When it gets too cold for riding, I'll be welding up something weird.
Wow--that's nice. :) You could build a canopy over your couch-bike. :lol:

Or a big flatbed trailer, with sides, etc.

Or a trellis-frame bike (or trike), along the lines of the huge one I wanted to build in my Loooooooongbike thread.

Or a slew of other things....

I have (or had, as I've used a bit of it on the trike) about that much of it, in 2-3 foot sections, from the retail sign holders scrapped at the remodels before the fire.

bowlofsalad wrote:Is it possible to expand the carrying capacity of your trailer and add a hitch to CB2 (I am assuming you haven't already added the hitch)? If nothing else, you might do this in the near future to protect yourself against this sort of issue.
You mean this hitch? ;)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e2#p955971
Image

Been on there a year already. :lol:

Trailer has same capacity (or better) as the trike, but I can't fit the trailer and bike at work in the breakroom, though the trike does fit. With weather on the rainy side, and traffic/parking the way it's been (and going to be for the next 2-3 months with the holiday season), parking inside is way better than outside.

Plus, if I have the vehicle inside, I can load it up while on break/lunch, and just leave when work is over after we close, rather than being stuck there by myself in the dark parking lot with scary people around (like the ones that mugged me a bit over a decade ago a mile south of work), because usually when we lock up, whoever closes with me just leaves and doesn't wait for me to be ready too (even though I always wait for anyone else, cuz I wouldn't want anyone to be left alone in this area).






1JohnFoster wrote:That's hilarious! All's well that ends well. Is it stable to ride no hands? If it ever does break again, could you just coast to a stop? Looks like you learned welding from the same school I did, koodos on your persistence. I gave up and turned to using wood and fiberglass, everything I ever welded broke.
Yeah, my welding isn't pretty, but it's very rare for an actual weld to break; it's usually some other predictable but non-weld failure (like the above) caused by repeated stress on an improperly designed or braced area.

I'm not so good with wood, especially since it's harder to reuse old wood for things than old metal, given that most old wood I can get is dry rotted/etc.



It won't quite ride no hands because of the road crowning forcing it to the right, but it is fairly stable if on a truly level surface. It's not built perfectly straight but it is close enough, and it can be steered with the motor power on wide enough turns, more left or more right throttle to turn the other direction.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Oct 29 2015 2:58pm

No problems with the fix yet, did have to rotate the stem a bit to get the bars straight again--I guess I didn't quite get it lined up perfect before welding (or the welding twisted it?). No big deal.

On the way here this afternoon, though, I heard a sound from the left rear wheel; couldn't find anything wrong yet. Almost certainly is a mounting issue with the inner axle end again, because on hard turns I hear tire rubbing slightly. :/


Didn't get pics yet but last night I got some more metal "fence" type stuff from a scrapped fixture at work, might become part of a more open type of doggie crate on a wider trailer, or might become part of a front "screen" door for the house; havent' decided yet.

A few days before that I got some more 1" square tubing with the adjustable extension inside it, like the ends of crutches have. Almost 30 pieces, about a foot long each, fully extended almost twice that. Am still pondering but some of these might become side rails for a bigger flatbed cargo trailer, so they can extend up or just come off completely. Perhaps have the wire fence sides welded to the extension pieces that go in there, so they can be inserted in or left out, to use either as flatbed, secure cargo or dog containment, etc.

If I actually make it, this trailer would have two wheels on each side, and be about double the width of the present one, and longer, so it could fit both Tiny and Yogi and perhaps another dog or two their size, or it could be used to haul either this trike or CrazyBike2 in it. (or other large objects, like refrigerators or other appliances, furniture like couches, beds, etc).

Two wheels on each side partly to distribute load and also so that if there is a flat or other wheel failure it wouldn't be catastrophic, and I'd be able to continue some ways before having to stop and deal with it.

They might be bicycle type wheels (20") or they might be some of the larger powerchair wheels, including the motors on at least one on each side, for helping to move really heavy loads and for traction and perhaps braking.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 02 2015 4:19am

Got a call this morning asking if I could work at the store over on 44th street and Thomas, which is a bit more tha n 16 miles from me; I need the money more than a day off so I went, after getting Tiny her meds and breakfast.

Didn't wanna take the bike, for various reasons, but it's EIG battery is the only one that would probably make it with no worries all the way there, charge, and then come back.

So I pulled that out of CB2's frame, and added it to the SBC along side the A123 pack (which is good for about 15 miles or so, for sure, plus a little but not to be relied upon depending on conditions).

I was going to stack them, but there isn't room--short about 2 inches. So they went side by side, sticking out from under the seat just a bit beyond the right axle end so they are presently teh widest point on the right side of the trike. For the moment their connectors are sticking out there, though ideally those'd be pointing in toward the trike. Did it this way instead in case I needed to troubleshoot anything on the way there or back; much easier to reach.


While I was at it, and had to cut some wire harness zipties on CB2 anyway, I moved the whole CAv2.23 (except shunt) over to SBC, using the shunt I already soldered into the wiring harness on SBC to measure from. This is the first time a CA has been used on the trike, though I did use a Watts-Up and a Turnigy Watt Meter at different times on it.

Unfortunately by the time I got all the stuff done I didn't have time to actually calibrate teh CA with the shunt, so it's still at the odd setting I ended up with for CB2 back when I was trying to figure out why the CA's recharge readings didn't agree with the Satiator's readings. So all the numbers are off by whatever the difference is--I'd guess about 30% or so, off the top of my head. Will have to actually test and verify on my next day off if there's time--sooner if I can.


Mostly I wanted the CA on there to show my mileage, since they do pay for that on this kind of extra work day, done at a store not my normal one, even though it's not much it's still money, which I am pretty much always in need of. :)

But I've wondered about speed, watts at speed, how fast I am actually going when cornering, etc., and now was just a good chance to get that data collection started.


Watts at speed is a little ridiculous; with the miscalibration it shows about 1000-1100w just to cruise at a bit over 19MPH. I might believe 600-700w, as big and boxy as this thing is.

By teh time I'd gone around 16 miles, the Ah counter was already over 20Ah, and the EIG is only a 20Ah pack. :/ And I still had capacity left in there, though exactly how much I wasn't sure.

When I recharged it at work, I think it said ~15Ah on the Satiator; I forgot to write it down.

After getting home, with the CA showing about 18Ah used, teh Satiator said 13.88Ah put back in.

Not really sure why the difference in usage between outbound and return trips, as they were on teh same route, same distance, same trip-time.


Anyway, shots of teh CA screens are at the end of the post. The totals screen including odo are from CB2's usage except for today's stuff. So not quite 11000 miles on CB2 up to this point, and about 32 miles of the total shown is on SBC from today.

Total odo for SBC at this point is about 740 miles, calculated from known distances/odo readings and routes.


Ride there and back was very rough in places; hit pot holes in traffic that i thought would break something, but didn't see any sign of it when I got there--haven't been able to check yet since getting home, will do that tomorrow in daylight.




Side note: I saw several ebikes while at that shopping center; one locked up in front of Target, looked like a scooter-with-pedals, Chinese markings on it. Another with a fully step thru frame and footrest platform, but still with pedals, over at Frys (was also Chinese markings). A third looked like a kit on a beat up frame, over by a cart-return stall in the parking lot. A fourth I saw on teh street while riding into the lot, it was like the second one but a lighter color. Didnt' get to talk to any of the riders (only saw one with a rider).



Mostly uneventful other than the bad sections of road here and there. Some of the potholes were several inches deep and well over a foot across, some much smaller, one was deep enough that if I had hit it with the front wheel I'd've probably flipped end over end and destroyed the wheel and/or the fork/frame up there--I couldn't see the bottom of it while I was riding past it, as teh road was all in shadow of some big trees, but it would've had to be several times deeper than the others for that to happen. If it werent' for the irregular shape I'd've thought it was a missing manhole cover!

Some of teh route I took was the same as when I was at the apartment after the fire; haven't been that way since then (almost 2 years now) and some of the already bad road is MUCH worse than it used to be, some tiny stretches of it have been badly patched, a couple smoothly patched but totally discontinous with the surrounding road, so you still go THUNK entering and exiting the patched area. :/


No really impatient drivers, though a couple of dumb pedestrians that just stepped off the sidewalk without even looking, just as I passed them. If I didn't always ride away from anyone I pass jus tin case that happens, I would have squished them both as I had zero time to react--they literaly stepped off as I passed. One didnt' even seem to notice,a nd also almost got squished by a car taht was not far behind me. The other was very startled when they saw me as I passed by (a few feet away from them), and screamed a little short one--too busy texting on their phones in both cases,


Problesm with teh card reader; gotta upload the pics later. :/
Attachments
IMG_2913.JPG
IMG_2913.JPG (69.71 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2930.JPG
IMG_2930.JPG (27.03 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2914.JPG
IMG_2914.JPG (78.57 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2915.JPG
IMG_2915.JPG (81.68 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2916.JPG
IMG_2916.JPG (83.41 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2918.JPG
IMG_2918.JPG (19.44 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2919.JPG
IMG_2919.JPG (17.01 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2920.JPG
IMG_2920.JPG (17.84 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2921.JPG
IMG_2921.JPG (17.69 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2923.JPG
IMG_2923.JPG (17.78 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2924.JPG
IMG_2924.JPG (20.69 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2925.JPG
IMG_2925.JPG (14.97 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2926.JPG
IMG_2926.JPG (14.87 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2927.JPG
IMG_2927.JPG (16.23 KiB) Viewed 2401 times
IMG_2929.JPG
IMG_2929.JPG (36.73 KiB) Viewed 2401 times

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 35078
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by dogman dan » Nov 02 2015 9:25am

Ahh, ok, bend the cromoly tube and then drill holes in the bend is a no go. Makes sense.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 02 2015 3:35pm

Forgot to post it Saturday but found a windshield with mounting hardware for a few dollars at goodwill (half price day) that should fit either trike or bike easily enough.

Also found a car-alarm type horn that is EXTREMELY LOUD that I may add to teh trike as an actual alarm, possibly also wiring up to the horn button but it doesnt' sound like a horn so it may not get anyone's attention used that way on the road.
Attachments
IMG_2908.JPG
IMG_2908.JPG (82.95 KiB) Viewed 2383 times
IMG_2910.JPG
IMG_2910.JPG (82.03 KiB) Viewed 2383 times
IMG_2911.JPG
IMG_2911.JPG (74.78 KiB) Viewed 2383 times
IMG_2912.JPG
IMG_2912.JPG (37.84 KiB) Viewed 2383 times
IMG_2909.JPG
IMG_2909.JPG (43.72 KiB) Viewed 2383 times

User avatar
The fingers   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6985
Joined: Mar 11 2012 11:22pm
Location: Desert Pacific Cali USA

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by The fingers » Nov 02 2015 3:54pm

Those are some great finds. :mrgreen:
Black Schwinn High Sierra
Blue Schwinn Cruiser 5
Blue Schwinn High Plains
Black Fiore Cruzer 5: Amped Warp Drive 26" Front DD/SLA kit
http://ghostbikes.org/
http://www.rideofsilence.org/main.php
Hebrews 9:27

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 03 2015 1:42am

Though I'm still looking for the box with the secret compartment full of ben franklins. ;)


I messed around a little with trying to get the CA shunt set correctly compared to the Satiator...and ran into a problem I think I had on CB2's shunt (which is different than this one), so it is a CAv2.23 issue:

The Satiator (and the Watts Up in series with the CA shunt to battery input) both read a steady current (about 6.3A at start of charge in this case) but the CA reading continously changes, over about 10 seconds, in a range that seems about 3/4 of an amp, from somewhere down around 5.8A up to about 6.5A or so, then back down again, completing one full cycle every 20 seconds or so.

Neither WU nor Satiator readings show any significant change during this, but the CA is constantly changing, never steady, always this cycle, for as long as I stood there and watched (a few minutes).

I haven't gotten the oscilloscope out to see if there is some "switching" pattern going on in the Satiator output that might cause an interference pattern with the sampling rate of the CA, and generate this cyclic display issue (I doubt it, given that the WU shows no change), but I might do that tomorrow.



Note that I did find that around 1.3mohms is "close enough" on this shunt for the correct amp readings; I still don't think it's quite right, but it is pretty close to a Watts Up reading, mounted in series with the CA's shunt, when recharging. Haven't tested it this way while riding yet; hope to do that tomorrow.



I just can't really see why the CA doesn't show a steady current.
(edit: JustinLE posted the reason why in the post following the one linked below. It's a harmonic issue between the CAv2.23's 40hz sampling rate and the 120hz ripple on the chargers' output).


I've crossposted this between my SB Cruiser thread and the Satiator thread, as it might be relevant to others there.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1115302

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 05 2015 2:12pm

With the CA readjusted to 1.3mohm shunt setting, it shows much more normal readings, though it's still pretty high, about 60Wh/mile that's at least potentially reasonable for this contraption, the way I ride. :)


Been paying attention to speed when cornering, and generally on right turns the most I can turn at is about 16MPH, at the point where the inner wheel lifts off the ground at some point during the turn (usually at the start of it).

On left turns, which are a lot wider, I can keep up to 18+MPH depending on the turn, before wheel lift happens.

I'm sure I can ride it thru the turn even with a lifted wheel, but it's easier to control with all three on the ground. :)


The EIG NMC pack today started having major sag issues (down to 49V!) on hard acceleration, from a full charge near start of trip, so I'll need to open it up and check/clean all the connections before I start testing cells. (well, I need to check balance first but that's not likely the issue; it stays well-balanced on it's own, but it *is* a few years old now).

Am going to see about adding a second SB50 in parallel with the input SB50 to the trike, so I can plug both packs in and see how that acts for sag control, too; see if it improves acceleration any (probably not, it's almost certainly controller limited).

When I do that, I won't be able to fully charge the EIG pack (well, it will fully charge but then it will discharge some via the A123 pack as that pack goes thru balancing on it's BMS and drains down some--both packs technically charge to the same voltage to start with, 58.4V, as that's what the charger that came with the A123 pack was set to, but the standing voltage for the A123 is more like 57.6V, IIRC).

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 06 2015 2:43pm

All I got done today was to Y-add a second SB50 (I think 10g wire) to the existing SB50 off the bike's power input. I just pulled the contacts out of the original's housing, ziptied the new one's wires parallel to the old (individually so they can float like Andersons are designed to do) then wrapped the wire around a small bare section just behind the flare of the contact on each one, and soldered them, let them cool, then reinserted the original contacts back into their housing. I'ts not the best job, but it is enough for this test.


I verified both packs were charged to the same 57.6V that the Satiator is set to charge a "48V LiFe" pack to, then connected them both to their respective parts of the Y. No sparks (controllers disconnected at another SB50) so that's good. CA shows 57.6v.

Hooked up Satiator set to the 58.4V profile instead, and let that run while feeding the dogs and watering stuff in the yard before leaving for work.


Sag is less, only about 54V (vs 49v on just the aging EIG) at max power (close to 80A WOT from a complete stop, at peak, per the CA stats page but all I saw onscreen was 68A peak). But still sagging what seems like a lot for two high-power-capability packs--they are getting old though.


I need to check cell balance on each, static and under load, and see if that's an issue.

If I just get sag in general, I guess it's just age, but could be connections so I will probably end up opening up the EIG pack and cleaning all the inter-cell connections (since the EIG hardware screws together to clamp cells down), then reassembling it and retesting.

I also need to test the same things with the A123 pack.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 07 2015 2:46pm

New "opportunity" for upgrading happened last night: I broke the toggle off the headlight switch while getting on the trike after work. :/

It's still located down near the cranks, in between the "mixte-style" tubes where I'd been intending to put various controls I wouldn't normally need instant access to while riding, to keep the handlebars clear and so I wouldn't have to run a bunch of thicker wires up the tiller tube (cuz they wouldn't all fit).

I've bummped it with my toe before, but I really whacked it last night, and it broke the internals before the toggle separated, cuz the switch wouldn't stay on anymore; vibration would cause the headlight to flicker or go off entirely.

Ended up opening the side panel and just taking the switch out, and twisting the wires together for now. :/


Next chance I get to work on the trike I guess I'll be rewiring the headlight stuff so I can switch between the various lights (Grin LED, car/scooter headlight, and fog lamp), or have them all on at once (unlikely to ever be needed, but...).

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 11 2015 12:31am

After my commute last night, I checked the balance on the EIG pack, and found them all within 0.03V both static, and under load (lifting right rear of trike just enough to let the rear wheel spin on the ground with a lot of friction, drawing about 1kw (huge roostertail that Yogi thought was fun to chase until he found it was just dirt. :lol:), front wheel against the wall of the house.

I forget what the per-cell sag was, though it seemed a little significant at the time. Have to recheck.

Durign recharge at 6.5A, the cells stayed within 0.03v as well. Was distracted for most of the recharge (playing with the dogs) but whenever I did check on it, it was still balanced.

I haven't checked teh A123 pack yet (which I've been keeping paralleled with the EIG, and charging the pair to 58.4V, letting the A123 BMS drain down/balance that pack at cell level, and the paralleled EIG at pack level).


Was planning to do it today, but a number of household things came up, and I was wiped out from the 6 workdays in a row (with just a single day off between those and hte previous several days). All I did get done was replacing the leftside mirror with a "new" (from goodwill) Suzuki MC mirror with integrated turn signal (incandescent, but still better than my LED one built last month).

Forgot to get a pic; maybe tomorrow. :)

Am probably going to move the little LED turn signal to the lower left rear edge of teh cargo area frame, and make another one to go on the right side. That way I'll still have turn signals should I need to use the trike without the upper rack. (originally was going to mount all the stuff up there on a removable bar to bolt in either place, but never did...if I just add a second set of lights down below, then I not only have lights whenever I don't have the rack on there, but I have extra lights all the time when I do have it on (which is so far all of the time).

Then I just need to build another taillight / brake light for it, though I don't think I have any other red LED lighting laying around ATM.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 12 2015 3:34pm

crossposted from ddk's thread:
Looks like the wheelbase of at least one ddk's trikes is the same as mine. Although the seat height/placement is slightly different (more forward on mine, & more upright maybe slightly higher).

Sort of related to that, is that as noted in previous posts, I've been doing some "tests" on cornering speed vs tipping speed vs loading, since finally sticking the CAv2.3 on the trike earlier this month, and I get about 20MPH on a left turn with the back end loaded up with groceries, water, etc., or either Tiny or Yogi.

Right turns are generally sharper and so I get a few MPH less on those before tip-up of the inner wheel. (this is without me doing any serious leaning/etc).

Without a load back there it's a few MPH less on each of those, as noted in previous posts.



Image

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27713
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Nov 17 2015 4:40am

Lost the ghost ring today; I hit something hard that I didn't see in the road with the right rear wheel as I went around the corner on a green light from 31st to Dunlap, at something like 17MPH, dunno if it was a rock or debris or broken-off car piece or what (all of those things are commonly in that intersection), and the very harsh jounce threw my feet off the pedals and jerked the chain hard enough to flip the ghost ring off.

I heard the "ting" as it hit the ground, but I couldn't just stop (cars behind me also turning), and by the time I could get back around to the same spot, the ring was nowhere to be found. Either someone walked past and picked it up, or a car ran it over and sent it off farther than I would expect and looked for, or something similar.

Without that to tension the chain, it cant' really be pedalled, and rotating the pedals while riding has a good chance of derailing the chain because of the bumps in the road jerking the chain around. It's not all that loose, but it doesn't take much on a chain this long. ;)

So I need to dig out another one...I don't remember how many teeth it had, 40-something, so I'll have to find a good closeup and count them. :)

I wouldn't worry about it much, but being sensorless (I guess that's why,not sure) the cotnrollers wont' always start the motors from certain positions, which are pretty common to hit when I stop, so that I have to push just a teeny bit (a few degrees at most of a pedal rotation) to get the motor into a position the controlle rwill spin it rather than judder. :/

I have a lot of starts from a stop on my commute, perhaps a dozen average each way, so it's common to have to do this. Not much fun if the chain derails when I do.



Maybe if I get a chaince this weekend while I'm doing that, a few days from now, I can see about changing the gearing on the pedals too, whcih would let me actually pedal the trike (albeit extremely slowly) should the electrics fail somehow. Presently it's really hard, painful, stressful to do so.

Post Reply