Taking Charge: Let's Develop the Products That We Want!

I should specify that when i offered to develop products for the ES community, that it would be as a separate venture. My current employer is not currently in a position to serve the enthusiast community.

Im guaging market needs. There are currently many electric cars and bikes on the market. Where are the gaps?
 
Hi guys, I'm new to this forum, but not new to the world of manufacturing. I actually became a member to gauge the market for electric bikes/mopeds/motorcycles. It seems that whatever product is available of a good enough quality, is priced beyond the reach of a majority of the population. Taking the Bolt M1 as an example, It's priced at $4,995/- if I'm not mistaken. $4,995/- will get me a fully fledged motorcycle, which might not be as efficient/cheap to run, as an electric bike, but will definitely be cheaper and more efficient than a car. I feel that the market needs a product in the sub $1500-2,000$ with similar, if not the same capabilities. Is this even possible? I saw another product on the market for $10,000/- which is a strictly "Off-Road" product, capable of speeds in excess of 85km/hr. How many people would pay that much for a really fancy electric bicycle?

I'm just beginning my research in this field so I'm not really aware of all the nuances and costs involved. As a company, we manufacture windscreen wipers and Exhaust systems for passenger cars and LCVs in India. This, I thought, might be a good extension of our fabricating and manufacturing capability, to fabricate and assemble electric bicycles. any input on what the market needs would be highly appreciated.
 
Good-quality motors, controllers, batteries, and sets of bike parts can cost several hundred dollars each at that power level. Prices are dropping, and DIY ebikes (read: no overhead costs) such as are common around here can easily halve the price of comparable commercial offerings, so it's definitely doable, especially if you do some vertical integration, but it won't be a walk in the park.
 
That's something that I believe is changing over time. Also I think a more "bare bones" approach is needed to keep the costs down and then maybe add the bells and whistles at an additional cost? I don't think EVERYONE needs a WiFi enabled Bluetooth connected "smart" cycle which keeps track of twitter feeds and Facebook updates... lol Something that takes you from point A to point B in the most uneventful way possible with a range that JUST meets the needs of the consumers and no more, with a speed that's just at the legal limits of the particular state/country. Not everyone needs 40-50 miles of range and 30-50mph of top speed. We could save a lot of money and weight by keeping the battery capacity at a bare minimum. I'm thinking a range of 20-30 miles with a top speed of 20mph, maybe a targeted weight between 30-40lbs. Sub $500-1,000/- price tag, with additional options like a bigger motor and battery pack. No Suspension on early models. Probably a "Fat Bike" so the tires can take care of the suspension part with maybe a suspension seat?
 
Even in the last 2 years since this post say the burgeoning amount of start-ups made by crowdfunding and the maturity of the electronics and even battery market and access to better a cheaper manufacturing skills and materials.

Everything is on fast path, the one thing that doesnt change as fast as the technology is the user requirements people requirements if they had ben written to best possible out comes 10-5-2 years ago I dont believe would have changed much its just the architecture and software capabilities that are really make headway.

The best environment to develop in for users is the least regulated ones and then get a return and start meeting regulatory markets one by one.

But there is also so many products to make, as individual designs to have enough cars to replace gasoline cars you need as many electric cars.

Many of us have our own idea;s and even I come here cap in hand with my own ideas to put together.
 
1 year ago, April 2017, I started the Flexible OpenSource firmware for ebike motor controllers based on the popular cheap Kunteng controllers. I think our project the is very first one of his kind: OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and with all tecnhical knowledge shared public, so everyone can learn!!

After the last 12 months, we are about 6 developers/contribuiters and we run on our ebikes our firmware, with all the flexibility we like to have. We developed specific functionalities like "Regen ebrake like coast brakes".
The firmware is not stable yet but works very well by now. It supports direct drive and geared motors, Regen, LCDs, Torque sensors, PAS and Throttles. In future will support mobile apps over the already existing Bluetooth communication on the motor controller.
 
Hi everyone, I have read the discussion here with fascination. I also make bikes, but I guess you could call me an integrator since I don't really make parts myself. A lot of the projects are of an 'ideal bike' variety where we try to cram everything but the kitchen sink into a bike frame, and this way we're slowly edging into our own frame design to fit requirements related to motor, batteries and the other parts.

In terms of motor, we actually use Bosch... and this is for historical reasons, basically other companies like Yamaha and Brose simply ignored my emails, so after a dozen (!) attempts Bosch was everything we were left with. Bosch are at the edge of innovations, not just with bicycle ABS (integration with Magura) but also electronic Rohloff shifting, wide choice of bike computers and DualBattery. Sadly, all of Bosch's stuff is proprietary so we're unable to manufacture our own batteries (as would be the case with, say, the Yamaha motor).

It would be awesome to unbind ourselves from proprietary tech while preserving the quality, particularly the smoothness of pedal assist, battery integration/safety and all that
 
dnesteruk said:
Sadly, all of Bosch's stuff is proprietary so we're unable to manufacture our own batteries (as would be the case with, say, the Yamaha motor).

It would be awesome to unbind ourselves from proprietary tech while preserving the quality, particularly the smoothness of pedal assist, battery integration/safety and all that
Maybe you should look at our flexible OpenSource firmware for TSDZ2 mid driver motor, here a video review from an experienced user:

[youtube]IrWn6e8bIuQ[/youtube]

See here all the information about about flexible OpenSource firmware for TSDZ2: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki
 
casainho said:
See here all the information about about flexible OpenSource firmware for TSDZ2: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki

Interesting, thanks. Not sure I like the idea of getting an extra display though.
As someone who has obviously ridden this, how close is this to a Bosch system in terms of pedal assist quality?
 
Develop a standard frame and mounts for mid drive motors. Beef them up for ~1000-3000W, and maybe set the OLD to 150mm or 165mm so they accept a big rear hub motor as well. Another 12-18in on the wheelbase and a head that readily accepts a triple would be ideal. There's a gap between bicycles and small displacement motorcycles, the moped fits but they primarily use 70's technology and didn't care about weight. Fuse this gap and market it.
 
FYI the above web address takes you straight to virus/malware.
That's a 2008 post. I'm not surprised the link doesn't go to where it says.
 
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