Raptor on Fire

Lucky those European houses are all stone.

What would sitting there besides and monitoring going to do? Do you think you could have prevented this if you were in the same room?

I believe that is a bulk charger, it seems most charging problems happen with cheap bulk charges.
 
So who is the mystery battery seller? Please do share, it could safe someone's house or even lives. Why is it erased?
 
Offroader said:
What would sitting there besides and monitoring going to do? Do you think you could have prevented this if you were in the same room?

I believe that is a bulk charger, it seems most charging problems happen with cheap bulk charges.
Click to expand...

I hubmly disagree with that. I was able to ruin a brand new cell while soldering the power tabs. The 18650 cell now does't even hold half the capacity of rest of the Samsung 25R Cells. It discharges quicker, and also reaches max volt quicker than the other cells. If not for the CellLog or iCharger, I would have closed my eyes, and kept using the pack until the battery shorted or exploded. Monitoring these DIY packs can help proactively detect early warnings or issues and possibly prevent catastrophic events such as this.
 
sansander.ebike said:
tomjasz said:
Who configured the pack? I've seen some wiring jobs on ES Facebook recently that could have ned up just like this.

I suspect builder error and poor wiring. It would be interesting to ID the cells used.
Click to expand...


I can not say the manufacturer, sr.

is all speculation, good or bad does not matter more.
Click to expand...


Heck yes it matters! WTF, unless you are the manufacturer and are hiding that, you should reveal so no one else has an even more disastrous event. Seriously. This build is trash, junk, unworthy of the great bike it was in.
 
Very sorry about your losses. But for such charging fire event with that apparently high energy li-ion pack (I count 120cells 1.1kWh if finally those are 25R cells) you really won the lottery this time. The builder could be very helpful for the community if despite he don't want to face this directly could give to you from the shadows some clues about what could probably fail in that case, or at least the source of those cells, so we can investigate and maybe avoid a worst disaster.

Really thank you to share this
 
Oh sansander what a shame to loose such a nice bike so early on. Glad it wasn't worse. I really need to stop storing my cells haphazardly in my shed. Good luck with the new bike.
 
It's more challenging than most folks think to provide adequate mechanical support to can cells not to fail from chaffing.

Glad you are OK, and wear a respirator breathing that gnarly soot.
 
Try spacing out the cells, using high temp adhesive between the cell and holder frame, adding fusible links, and shield the bus bar

Strapping cells tightly together is idiotic no matter the cell format (and this fact will become more and more apparent as cell energy/power density increases), unless the cell chem is 100% safe or it is a tiny pack or safety is not a concern (ie racing)

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20140013497.pdf
 
Oh people, I understand that you do not like some people
why I do not want to call the manufacturer.
But this posting should teach us all that we all play with bombs.
I can set up legal not behave the manufacturer.
but some people take this very personally uuuuh.
alone knowing the 18650 as dangerous as are lipos.
 
Gregory said:
Oh sansander what a shame to loose such a nice bike so early on. Glad it wasn't worse. I really need to stop storing my cells haphazardly in my shed. Good luck with the new bike.
Click to expand...

after the rain comes the sun.........
the more beautiful is the new Raptor
 
Glad you are OK, and wear a respirator breathing that gnarly soot.[/quote]

it belongs to the past.
My Flat is complett renovated
half a year has passed
everything well, from now on only forward
 
sansander.ebike said:
to this day I do not know exactly what was the cause...

Think of Mobile Phone, nobooks or electric toothbrush.

everything is running on battery can fail and cause a fire.
Click to expand...

Very true, but phones and tooth brushes etc are single cell and hence low energy and low risk.
Laptop/notebooks have packs designed such that cells with casings at different potential are NOT able to come into contact. ......AND paired cells are usually insulated from each other....AND rigidly fixed.
Like others above, I suspect your pack was poorly designed and assembled, leading to chafing between cell cases of different parallel groups.
But ...sorry for your loss, we are all learning.
 
Thanks for the additional information, I was very curious if the box was sealed when the fire happened. If you don't want to say who made the pack, it's up to you.

Shorts caused by chafing is a real problem. This pack sure looks to me like it needed much more supporting the cells, for going out on a fast, rough ride. This is true even if the cells are not in a double stack.

However, the way it caught fire while charging, does seem to point to a runaway cell. Very scary.
 
A short between a pair of parallel groups may/may not set off a fire ball, ....but it would certainly cause a hot spot and when the bulk charger is left on that will then overcharge ALL the remaining cells....which is then a big problem !
 
what of the possibility of a balance wire coming partially loose,(bad solder joint etc.) causing the bms to read a lower voltage then the actual parallel groups voltage?

would the charger then keep pumping in the current, over charging above 4.2v for example?

though if in this case if the charger cuts off at full pack voltage,92v, it might not apply..
 
so slowly I think
the error is not on the battery, the charger....
the charger can also short-circuit and not cutoff.
Charge charge up to overload.
Thanks for all the ideas...
 
sansander.ebike said:
so slowly I think
the error is not on the battery, the charger....
the charger can also short-circuit and not cutoff.
Charge charge up to overload.
Thanks for all the ideas...
Click to expand...

The BMS is the main barrier, if the charger fail, the BMS will always HVC the charge if one of the series pass over 4.2V, or if a charger short occurs and the BMS can't limit the current, the BMS charge MOSFETs (usually one unit, or two or greater batteries) will smoke immediately, and the current won't have the path to flow to the cells.

Did you used charging port to charge?

If you use discharge port to charge, only in that case, the charger could destroy the battery. A fail in the charger and the BMS charge circuit at the same time is more than improbable
 
Nobuo said:
sansander.ebike said:
so slowly I think
the error is not on the battery, the charger....
the charger can also short-circuit and not cutoff.
Charge charge up to overload.
Thanks for all the ideas...
Click to expand...

The BMS is the main barrier, if the charger fail, the BMS will always HVC the charge if one of the series pass over 4.2V, or if a charger short occurs and the BMS can't limit the current, the BMS charge MOSFETs (usually one unit, or two or greater batteries) will smoke immediately, and the current won't have the path to flow to the cells.

Did you used charging port to charge?

If you use discharge port to charge, only in that case, the charger could destroy the battery. A fail in the charger and the BMS charge circuit at the same time is more than improbable
Click to expand...

So but the BMS???
 
In my opinion the problem was probably from the bulk charger not cutting off properly. How could it be from chafing of the cells if when he started the charging they were fine? If there was a short someplace wouldn't he have problems before charging?

I have read too many issues with bulk chargers in the past and never bothered with them. I do use the Max-E charging solution as I have a lot more confidence in the build quality, and also for the fact I can use a high quality server power supply. The Max-E will also cutoff the charging if the BMS detects any overcharging of cells.

I'm going to assume he bulk charged through the main battery wires and bypassed any BMS.
 
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