Converting my Oxelo Town 9 EasyFold Scooter

I'm glad I found this forum, I've learned so much from lurking the past few weeks. I'm considering adding a hub motor to my Oxelo Town 9 EF scooter.

Here's what I was looking at: https://www.uumotor.com/8-inch-e-braking-hub-motor-diy-e-scooter-conversion-kit.html (I'd swap out the 65mm drop-out motor with a 58mm one.)

I was also considering adding a friction motor like this:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Electric-Scooter-Brushless-Motor-Kit-1500W-Electric-Bike-Motor-Electric-Kickscooter-High-Speed-Motor-E/32399350977.html
View attachment 1
I need something relatively light, portable and capable of going up a hill with a 7-10% grade. I weigh about 170 lbs. I don't care about going fast, and my total commute each day is about 2 miles (0.7 miles from home to the Caltrain station and 0.3 miles from the Caltrain station to work, so 1 mile one way.)
The hub motor looks cleaner but would require me to cut into the rear fork, not something I really want to do. Here are a few details about the hub motor:
Voltage: 24V/36V/48V
Power: 180~250W
Speed: 500~800R/min
The friction motor would be easier to install, here's some info about the friction motor:
Voltage: 11.1~29.6 Volt
Output: 1500 Watt
Rotate: 400KV
Rated Efficiency: ≥98%
Rated Current: 80A
Max current: 90A
Does the friction motor look like it'd be powerful enough to get me uphill? The scooter weighs about 13.5 lbs stock. So total, rider + scooter + motor + battery is about 190 lbs.
I'm guessing 8S1P 5Ah Lipo for the friction motor. For the hub motor, maybe a 36V 5Ah Li-ion battery? What charger and power supply is recommended? iCharger? HK power supply? I'll be sure to post lots of pics of the mod when it's done.
Thanks in advance for any help and advice!
-Stanley

going up a hill with a 7-10% grade require some power, you need to know that the DD hub motor will give you too much more power output capabilities than the friction drive, also more efficiency and the regen brake work very good in hub motors.

36V5Ah is enough for around 12 - 15 miles of range

I'd go with the hub motor. My scooter came with the same hub motor, but spins up to 1200 rpm. I overvolted it to 50v (12s) and am running a lyen 12 fet controller. This setup allows me to climb virtually any hill. I've been wanting to go to some gnarley hills in SF to see how it does. You can check my thread out for updates if you're interested.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=73294

So there's been a change in plans. I decided to go with a belt drive system. It'll be lighter than the hub motor and doesn't require me to modify my scooter in any way. Here's a picture of what it will look like:

I still need to pickup a battery, charger and power supply. I'll probably go with the iCharger 208B, and HK 350W power supply. It'll charge up to 8s, but I'll probably stick with 6S for now. Any recommended battery brand? Turnigy? Buddyrc Glacier lipo? The latter looks to be almost twice as expensive.
I'll probably want to get a VESC in the future, I'll want regen breaking and some of the safety features.
If the motor that comes with the belt drive kit isn't powerful enough, I'll upgrade the motor. What do you think? Should I get a Turnigy SK3 5065-236 KV or a Turnigy SK3 6364-245KV (assuming a 63mm motor even fits on the mount.)
The motor that comes with the belt drive kit is the same one that comes with the friction drive kit. 5065, 11.1-29.6V, 400kv, etc. I'm told the gearing ratio is 5:1.
I'll post pictures when I'm done.

Thanks in advance for any help,
-Stanley

that looks interesting, do you have a link to the belt drive system?

I'm running 2 6s turnigy 20c packs I bought 5 years ago in my scooter now. They have been awesome, not sure how many cycles they have in them. I just purchased 2 multistar packs from hobbyking, they are 10c and super cheap. I can't comment on their performance because I haven't run them yet. What's cool is that these packs come in high capacity packs, I bought the 12ah packs. Hope at least some of this info helps.

Maxchilton,
Here's a link to the belt kit:
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32530451998.html

Shortcircuit911,
I bought one of those Multistar 6S 5200mAh battery packs too. It was really cheap on sale. I'm a little bit worried about the quality and I don't know if 10C is enough. Might be ok on flat ground but I'm guessing it won't go up any hills. I think 30-40C would be better.

Also, does anyone have experience using VESC on a scooter and adding regen/EABS braking? How do I set that up?
In case anyone is wondering, I was told the gearing ratio is 5:1. With a 400KV motor at 22.2V, 200mm diameter wheels, I wanted to try to figure out if that would take me up a 7-10% grade hill. How do I calculate that? I found some formulas for calculating top speed, but I don't care about speed, I only care about going up moderate sized hills.

I should get the belt drive later this week and I'm planning on installing it this weekend. Wish me luck and thanks in advance for all the help!

stanleykwong said:

I should get the belt drive later this week and I'm planning on installing it this weekend. Wish me luck and thanks in advance for all the help!

Click to expand...

let us know how the kit goes. I have oxelo town 9 ef as well, it's currently setup with a basic friction drive and a 63mm outrunner motor, it's decent but i'd like to try out the belt drive in the future. I asked about 63mm motors and price without motor and here was the response, just fyi.

Hi Max.
Thanks for your message.

We make the mount parts for 5065 or 5055 brushless motor, the motor is popular in electric skateboard, it is powerful.
I cann't sure your meaning "5065 motor is too small", if you worry about its power, that is unnecessary, this motor is enough for this scooter.

If you want the kit without motor, I can give you total price 158 USD.

Best regards.
Laurie.

Click to expand...

stanleykwong said:

Maxchilton,


Also, does anyone have experience using VESC on a scooter and adding regen/EABS braking? How do I set that up?
In case anyone is wondering, I was told the gearing ratio is 5:1. With a 400KV motor at 22.2V, 200mm diameter wheels, I wanted to try to figure out if that would take me up a 7-10% grade hill. How do I calculate that? I found some formulas for calculating top speed, but I don't care about speed, I only care about going up moderate sized hills.

Click to expand...

as far as regen goes, the kit comes with one-way bearing on the motor shaft so regen isn't possible. Hill climbing ability depends on a lot of factors, however, this kit uses standard gears and belts you can buy anywhere so it's a matter of gearing down for more torque at the expense of top speed.

Hello,
I've electrified an Oxelo 7xl kick scooter.(one with 200mm wheels and dual suspension) I use nmt5060 270kv motor on 6s. Belt drive with 13 to 100 ratio. This scooter is not up to the power this setup can provide. Max speed fresh fromm charger is 29km/h, to climb 13% grade is easy @ ~23km/h as long as battery having juice. Acceleration is superb.
At fullspeed it's not stable, needs both hands on the bar! Such high kv motor with 1:5 gearing is questionable for me based on my experience...

T.


*Added pictures

Takyka,
Your converted Oxelo 7xl looks really cool. Did you machine those parts yourself?

I managed to modify my scooter this weekend. It works pretty well. It rattles a lot when running, not sure what the source of the sound is. I haven't tried taking it up any really steep hills, I'll try that tonight. But over flat ground it goes pretty fast. I added a thumb throttle after removing the useless bell that was initially installed on the handlebar. Taking the handlebar grip off wasn't too much trouble and adding the wheel sprocket was easy once I figured out I was screwing the plate on the wrong way.
I'm thinking about getting a VESC in the future. Will that allow EABS braking with the motor that came with the kit?
Here are some pictures of the finished scooter mod, and the motor, ESC, and servo consistency master that came with the kit:


View attachment 1

stanleykwong said:

Takyka,
Your converted Oxelo 7xl looks really cool. Did you machine those parts yourself?

I managed to modify my scooter this weekend. It works pretty well. It rattles a lot when running, not sure what the source of the sound is. I haven't tried taking it up any really steep hills, I'll try that tonight. But over flat ground it goes pretty fast. I added a thumb throttle after removing the useless bell that was initially installed on the handlebar. Taking the handlebar grip off wasn't too much trouble and adding the wheel sprocket was easy once I figured out I was screwing the plate on the wrong way.
I'm thinking about getting a VESC in the future. Will that allow EABS braking with the motor that came with the kit?
Here are some pictures of the finished scooter mod, and the motor, ESC, and servo consistency master that came with the kit:

Click to expand...

that look really good, i'm really considering ordering one now. Just a few questions, how loud is the the motor and belt drive? Do you think its possible to fit a 63mm motor in there? How much clearance is between the motor and the floorboard? Any problems with your left ankle hitting the motor? (assuming you keep your right leg planted and you kick with your left )

stanleykwong said:

Takyka,
Your converted Oxelo 7xl looks really cool. Did you machine those parts yourself?

I managed to modify my scooter this weekend. It works pretty well. It rattles a lot when running, not sure what the source of the sound is. I haven't tried taking it up any really steep hills, I'll try that tonight. But over flat ground it goes pretty fast. I added a thumb throttle after removing the useless bell that was initially installed on the handlebar. Taking the handlebar grip off wasn't too much trouble and adding the wheel sprocket was easy once I figured out I was screwing the plate on the wrong way.
I'm thinking about getting a VESC in the future. Will that allow EABS braking with the motor that came with the kit?
Here are some pictures of the finished scooter mod, and the motor, ESC, and servo consistency master that came with the kit:

Click to expand...

Hi, Where did you got the kit from and what does it consist of??

maxchilton,
The motor isn't too loud and it'll be a lot quieter if I ever get a VESC setup with FOC.
I also figured out the rattling sound. Take a look at this picture:

One of the 3 screws holding the motor in place is longer than the other 2. So I figured the long one must go on the bottom. But screwing it in there causes it to rub against the screws holding the wheel in place. Once I used one of the shorter screws on the bottom hole, the rattling went away. I don't know why they even bother including a longer screw.
I thought about adding a 63mm motor, not sure it'll be necessary though. There might be space for it, but the holes in the mounting plate are for a 50mm motor, so maybe a 63mm Tacon Bigfoot would work (those have both 50mm and 63mm mounting holes). But the Tacons are always out of stock. My left foot/ankle will occasionally hit the motor, I just try to be careful to avoid it. There's maybe 6-7mm clearance between the motor and floorboard.

trytagger,
Here's the link to the kit:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Homemade-TOWN-9-Scooter-Electric-Drive-Kit-DIY-Kickscooter-with-Belt-Drive-Most-Light-Electric-Scooter/632724_32530451998.html

Quick update, this thing sucks going uphill. Over flat ground it's great, just need to go easy on the throttle or the belt will slip. But it's weak as hell going uphill. First it crawls really slow and then the power just cuts out. Maybe I'm draining too many amps from the battery? It's one of the cheap Multistar 10c batteries that was on sale recently. Also, the power continues to cut out intermittently until I unplug the battery. Is the ESC trying to protect the battery?
Anyway, I've already bought a Turnigy 5000mah 6S 40C battery, I don't know if that will help, but it's worth a try. I've also ordered a VESC from chaka (www.ollinboardcompany.com).
I'm determined to get this thing to go uphill. I'd like to try a Turnigy SK3 6374, but the mount holes won't line up. Can I drill my own mount holes on the Turnigy SK3? Another option would be he Enertion r-spec 2.0 6372, that has 50 and 63mm mount holes like the Tacon Bigfoot, but it's quite expensive and I'm not 100% sure any 63mm motor will fit. I was also thinking about getting a bigger gear for the wheel. That'd get me more torque, but then I'd need a new belt. Not sure where I'd get that. I'm still pretty new to all this. I've just done as much reading and research as I can.
Anyone have any advice? I'd like to stick with a belt drive if possible. A hub motor might be easier to get going up hills but it'd also be heavier, and I'd have to cut into the rear fork of my scooter. I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.

Thanks!

stanleykwong said:

Quick update, this thing sucks going uphill. Over flat ground it's great, just need to go easy on the throttle or the belt will slip. But it's weak as hell going uphill. First it crawls really slow and then the power just cuts out. Maybe I'm draining too many amps from the battery? It's one of the cheap Multistar 10c batteries that was on sale recently. Also, the power continues to cut out intermittently until I unplug the battery. Is the ESC trying to protect the battery?
Anyway, I've already bought a Turnigy 5000mah 6S 40C battery, I don't know if that will help, but it's worth a try. I've also ordered a VESC from chaka (http://www.ollinboardcompany.com).
I'm determined to get this thing to go uphill. I'd like to try a Turnigy SK3 6374, but the mount holes won't line up. Can I drill my own mount holes on the Turnigy SK3? Another option would be he Enertion r-spec 2.0 6372, that has 50 and 63mm mount holes like the Tacon Bigfoot, but it's quite expensive and I'm not 100% sure any 63mm motor will fit. I was also thinking about getting a bigger gear for the wheel. That'd get me more torque, but then I'd need a new belt. Not sure where I'd get that. I'm still pretty new to all this. I've just done as much reading and research as I can.
Anyone have any advice? I'd like to stick with a belt drive if possible. A hub motor might be easier to get going up hills but it'd also be heavier, and I'd have to cut into the rear fork of my scooter. I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

yea, your scooter is definitely overgeared, looks like 13/57 from the pics, with a 400kv motor on 6s, that's 36mph top speed! You need to regear or buy a lower kv motor and lower your top speed to something more reasonable like ~18-22 mph (depending on your preference)



http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/rc_drive/rc_drive_calculator.asp

I would look into getting a 245kv 63mm tacon (or equivalent) that'll give you a top speed of 22mph and massively more torque and you can still keep the same gearing.

maxchilton,
Thanks for the quick response! I was hoping to get the Tacon Bigfoot, but it's out of stock and according to onloop (http://www.enertionboards.com/) they're never going to be in stock again :-(
I was also considering getting the Turnigy SK3 6364 245KV, but that's out of stock too. So that leaves me with the Turnigy SK3 192KV, I'll get about 17mph top speed (http://recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/rc_drive/rc_drive_calculator.asp). I can live with that as long as I can go uphill.
But the problem with the 63mm Turnigy SK3 is the mounting holes don't line up with the motor mount holes. Anyone ever try to mount a 63mm motor with 32mm bolt hole spacing to a 50mm motor mount with 25mm bolt hole spacing?
I could get the Enertion r-spec 2.0 6372, that will have both 25mm and 32mm bolt holes, but that's $158 plus shipping. A lot of money to spend if I can't get the 63mm motor to fit. I'm 90% sure a 63mm motor will fit. But I won't know until I actually try it.
By the way, can anyone recommend an pinion puller that will work with these motors? And should I use loctite when putting the pinion on the new motor?

It's going to be very difficult to redrill motor holes on the 6374 sk3, I personally wouldn't do it. i would either get this motor



http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=71682


or this tacon clone

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neo-C6364-KV245-OUTRUNNER-BRUSHLESS-MOTOR-2320W-/311463844903?hash=item4884b11c27:g:-icAAOSw3ydVs8Wg


the only difference is the turnigy has 8mm shaft, the ebay has 10mm shaft.


regarding the pinion, i believe it's held on with an e-clip (from what I can see in the pics). Generally, it's a one-way bearing press fitted into the pinion gear, the one-way bearing is slid over the motor shaft and secured in place with an e-clip. So a pinion puller isn't necessary, just needle nose pliers.

If the pinion uses grub screws, I don't put loctite on the screw, some do, but it's a PITA if you ever want to remove the pinion.

So it seems that the motor I've got (EMP C5065-400) has an 8mm shaft according to:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1653773
I'm guessing that means I want to go with the Turnigy G160, but it's diameter is 64mm, and that might be a problem. A 63mm motor will probably just barely fit. I'm worried a 64mm motor is just a little too big.
The generic Tacon looks really good, it's 63mm, but it's got a 10mm shaft. So which is harder, trying to get the 64mm motor installed, or finding a 10mm 13 tooth pinion gear that matches mine? And whichever motor I pick I'll have to reprogram the current ESC, right? I might as well wait for my VESC to arrive.
Thanks for all the help!

So, after further research, it seems that I can get a Turnigy SK3 6364 245KV. It's in stock in the USA warehouses. I was looking at the global warehouse before.
Now, how to mount it.
First of all, the shaft length of the EMP C5065-400 appears to be 21mm, according to
http://skyhobby.en.alibaba.com/product/476075799-210397168/Radio_control_Outrunner_Brushless_electric_motors_C5065_KV400.html
The shaft on the Turnigy is 31mm according to:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=35029
Assuming measurements E-B are accurate. That means the Turnigy shaft is 10mm too long, there's not much clearance so that might be a problem.
So to fix that issue and the mount hole mismatch, I was thinking about getting a 10mm thick, 60mm diameter aluminium disc like this:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminum-discs-Aluminum-disc-60-x-10-mm-Material-AlMg3-/231573653297?nav=SEARCH
I'll attach the aluminium disc to the mount with 25mm spaced M4 bolts. And then attach the Turnigy to the aluminium disc (32mm spaced holes).
Does that sound like it'll work?

stanleykwong,

Thanks. The forks are laser cutted from stainless steel. The rest I made myself.

I don't know if with bigger motor you can reach your performance goal, as your main problem is the too small reduction to the wheel.

T.

You will toast your battery if you let the motor slow down and stop. It's probably toast already. None of this is designed with any non-toasting safeguards. If the esc cuts out, its overloaded, undervolted or broken too. Afaik, only a end user programmed VESC has protection against user asking too much from motor system. I wish this was super clear to everyone.

Great scooter builds!

Takyka,
Where did you get your rear wheel sprocket/gear? It's 100 tooth, correct? What's the diameter? I might end up getting a better motor and a bigger rear wheel sprocket.

NyOliver,
My battery seems ok, holds a charge fine, no puffing yet. And when I ride my scooter over flat ground it works fine. I'm not too worried about messing up the battery, it's a cheap Multistar I got on sale for $30. I've already ordered a backup Turnigy battery just in case. And I don't run it until it stops uphill anymore. I either kick assist it or just walk it.
I may have fried the ESC though. Sometime the motor starts for no reason. It might also be a loose connection to the ESC. I have to investigate. Anyway, I've already ordered a VESC from chaka, so I'm looking forward to using that.

Torqueboards,
Thanks! I've got a long way to go on this scooter but it's been fun so far!

Yes, that is a 100 teeth sprocket. It's home made from PC. If I remember well, it's around 170mm including the flange. It is as big as it can be with 200mm dia. wheel.


T.