Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

15s works as long as the total pack voltage stays under 62v else you'll get error code 7 "over voltage" shown.
 
Thanks for all the advice, yes the motor works normally when I discharged my back below the 62v cutoff. Has anyone else had any experience with over volting this motor? I expect efficiency would go down, as well as potential for damage to the motor itself. The 30 amp limit of the controller with 60v would be 1800W. In addition I would be running the stock "sunflower" chain ring on a 29er with the intention of climbing hills so keeping the speed of the motor up might be an issue.

What about damage to the controller? As voltage goes up current goes down so not anticipating a problem with frying it but this is new territory for me.

Kory
 
lluviaperro said:
Thanks for all the advice, yes the motor works normally when I discharged my back below the 62v cutoff. Has anyone else had any experience with over volting this motor? I expect efficiency would go down, as well as potential for damage to the motor itself. The 30 amp limit of the controller with 60v would be 1800W. In addition I would be running the stock "sunflower" chain ring on a 29er with the intention of climbing hills so keeping the speed of the motor up might be an issue.

What about damage to the controller? As voltage goes up current goes down so not anticipating a problem with frying it but this is new territory for me.

Kory
Click to expand...

Dont worry about 14s (59V max), HD will handle it.

I am waiting for 35A version. ;)
 
Lurkin said:
wrong.jpg
Click to expand...

Way too funny.
I actually did LMAO
 
Hello guys.

What happened here? Any news, experiences with BBS HD?
 
Part of the popularity of the BBSHD is that it has proven to be a relatively plug-and-play installation, and its form does not lend itself to experimentation.

Frequent recent posting by customers who were very happy with a BBSHD that had bought from Luna ended up sounding like shills, so the owner of the Luna web-based started a Luna customer forum to discuss Luna-only purchases and issues, as a form of customer support.

As a result, there is a lot of BBSHD discussion there. One direct result of customer feedback was that Luna now carries a variety of spacer shims, and a bigger selection of chainrings (as examples of why that forum was started).

The three largest retailers of the BBSHD are Luna Cycles, em3ev.com, and Lectric Cycles. I'm sure there are others by now. I am a fan of the BBSHD, due to its wide application potential as a street commuter, and recently purchased one. I just purchased a new bike to put it on, and I look forward to posting about it.

Did you have any particular questions about the BBSHD?
 
I would sincerely appreciate any comments about speeds achieved with your BBSHDs, and also battery life.

I have read numerous posts (here and elsewhere) about 40+ mph speeds on flats and there is just no way mine will do that. I've reached 35+ mph with full throttle/PAS 5/hard pedaling and a decent stretch to build speed. On a relatively steep hill I can maybe go 15 mph.

I have noticed a few others sheepishly mention this too, as if they're a bit puzzled by all the supernormal speeds reported, and wondering if there is some secret we're missing.

My 52V battery lasts about 12-15 miles with moderate throttle and PAS, which seems short compared to the 20-40 mile estimates I had read about. I weigh 180 lbs and ride a decent hybrid; fitness and cycling experience are well above average, so it's nothing extraneous.

Otherwise my impression so far is that the BBSHD is excellent. You can commute without breaking any sweat at all. No you can't take up your own car lane without holding up traffic (even in a 30 zone because everyone else is going 35-40), but it is much more enjoyable than driving and I would not have said that with a regular bike because of the sweat factor. With a good charger, it only takes 2 hrs to fill up so battery life is not that big a deal unless you have a 20 mile commute.
 
The BBSHD is quiet and makes good thrust for its power level. It is not a superbike compared to the big hubs like the Cromotor. But it is a quick easy install, doesn't add a lot of cables, boxes and tiewraps to your bike. On a steep hill on pavement it is power limited, in the dirt the speed you need is not so high due to the terrain so the power is more than enough, but on pavement you can run out of power. Shift into a low gear and you can move along far faster than the pedalers and low powered ebikes, but the high powered hubs are going to leave you. Generally I can get to 25 or more on pavement, but in steep terrain it can be less. You get the most power when you let it work at high RPM so the pedal cadence will be very high. This makes it difficult to add leg power. If you are adding significant leg power then you're probably not in the right gear and your not getting max power from the BBSHD. Pedal cadence should be well over 100 RPM at the max.

The BBSHD is a great kit to keep your bike feeling "bike like" and adding a large dose of epower. If you want a racing machine to keep up with traffic on the street you'll probably want a much bigger motor. But your bike won't be light and "bike like", or it won't be quiet or look stealthy. At the moment anyway, all the higher power alternatives are either noisy, heavy, big, visually intrusive or a combination of the above.

I've written up my experiences here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78722

I'm getting 25 miles range when flogging it hard, and probably about 50 miles range when riding it easy (I haven't done a full pack riding it easy to verify that though). That's with a 52V 20AH pack. Clearly if you pedal enough the range can be anything. Those ranges are with minimal pedal work input. Not that I didn't pedal, but I didn't put much energy input, and let the motor carry the bike. Total up weight around 250 pounds.

For a daily commuter, I built up a Greyborg frame with a Cromotor and 32 amp hours of 18S Multistar lipo. That will go up a 15% grade at 25 mph, and compete with the cars at modest street speed (I didn't install enough voltage to go too fast, this is not a motorcycle). No chain wear (from the motor) and tough heavy moped tires for minimum flats. But it makes a heavy bike and out of place on any separated bike path. That story is also linked in my signature below.

If you are not getting enough range with the BBSHD there are three choices. Pedal more, or mount a larger or additional battery. If you want more speed, optimize the gearing but don't expect to reach 40 on the steep hills. That would take more power than is safe through the BBSHD. If you put a lot more power through a bicycle chain expect a lot of maintenance.

Good luck with your project, and Ride Safe!
 
Thank you, that is very thorough and seems consistent with my experience. I will try higher cadenced pedaling for sure. My battery is 52V 11.5A which explains the much shorter life.

I don't understand these guys claiming 45+mph and 30 on the hills. It's not possible at factory settings, you can tell within moments of hitting the throttle for the first time.
 
My first commute was 20 miles, I flogged it all the way to work appx 30-35mph the whole way, barely pedaling for 4 miles, then pedal assist appx. 20-25mph to my next destination for about 8 miles, and pedal assist home about 8 miles with a 1.5 mile hill on the way. The hill really took it out of the pack, I wasn't going very quick up the hill as I was concerned with the battery dying, and by the time I was nearing my house it seemed to start loosing power. This is with a 52V pack 11.5Ah start voltage 57V discharge to 49V (resting).

I have been playing with the pedal assist programming. I recently changed the 5 levels to 5% , 10% , 30% , 60% and 100% . I believe it was originally 20% 40% 60% 80% 100%. I may scale it again 5% 10% 25% 50% 75%. This is also on a road bike, and I want to get further range, and decent exercise if I want. I think these are more appropriate levels for pedal assist, I'll reserve the high power stuff for throttle. I found that the 5% is good for going 18-20 mph on flat with relative ease, and 10% is good for 22-25 mph on flat with relative ease. GPS puts max speed at 42 mph with throttle, and pedal assist maxes out about 37 mph, but its nearly impossible to keep that cadence. I might look at a 52T chain ring.

After my recent pedal assist adjustment, I rode 10 miles with pedal assist 2. Mostly flat 22-25 mph ,a few 35 mph sprints (to pass other bikers....), and about 1.5 mile of hill about 20 mph throttle at the end (crank came loose). Start voltage was 57V and end was 54V.
 
If you want to exceed the factory limits on the controller, then Karl at electric-fatbike.com has written extensively about that. Be aware that bypassing controller safety limits will void the warranty.

I am happy with 30-MPH for what I do, and I have been convinced by several builders that I trust that this kit will work fine at 30-MPH while staying relatively cool, and providing adequate range per watt-hour of battery capacity.
 
Well, comparing the BBSHD to a large hub is not even a fair comparison; they are not in the same league.

You should probably compare your Cromotor to something along the lines of a LR big block, Cyclone 3000W, or some other hot rod mid drive...

Personally I get similar performance figures to your "Cromotor" from a Cyclone 3000W mid drive, running on 10 volts less average and 1/2 the Wh capacity on my battery pack. My motor temps barely get 30-35F above ambient, even when going uphill at full throttle.

And pedaling the Cromotor without battery power must feel really awesome, specially uphill; all that magnetic drag and extra weight... ufff...

G.


Alan B said:
The BBSHD is quiet and makes good thrust for its power level. It is not a superbike compared to the big hubs like the Cromotor. But it is a quick easy install, doesn't add a lot of cables, boxes and tiewraps to your bike. On a steep hill on pavement it is power limited, in the dirt the speed you need is not so high due to the terrain so the power is more than enough, but on pavement you can run out of power. Shift into a low gear and you can move along far faster than the pedalers and low powered ebikes, but the high powered hubs are going to leave you. Generally I can get to 25 or more on pavement, but in steep terrain it can be less. You get the most power when you let it work at high RPM so the pedal cadence will be very high. This makes it difficult to add leg power. If you are adding significant leg power then you're probably not in the right gear and your not getting max power from the BBSHD. Pedal cadence should be well over 100 RPM at the max.

The BBSHD is a great kit to keep your bike feeling "bike like" and adding a large dose of epower. If you want a racing machine to keep up with traffic on the street you'll probably want a much bigger motor. But your bike won't be light and "bike like", or it won't be quiet or look stealthy. At the moment anyway, all the higher power alternatives are either noisy, heavy, big, visually intrusive or a combination of the above.

I've written up my experiences here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78722

I'm getting 25 miles range when flogging it hard, and probably about 50 miles range when riding it easy (I haven't done a full pack riding it easy to verify that though). That's with a 52V 20AH pack. Clearly if you pedal enough the range can be anything. Those ranges are with minimal pedal work input. Not that I didn't pedal, but I didn't put much energy input, and let the motor carry the bike. Total up weight around 250 pounds.

For a daily commuter, I built up a Greyborg frame with a Cromotor and 32 amp hours of 18S Multistar lipo. That will go up a 15% grade at 25 mph, and compete with the cars at modest street speed (I didn't install enough voltage to go too fast, this is not a motorcycle). No chain wear (from the motor) and tough heavy moped tires for minimum flats. But it makes a heavy bike and out of place on any separated bike path. That story is also linked in my signature below.

If you are not getting enough range with the BBSHD there are three choices. Pedal more, or mount a larger or additional battery. If you want more speed, optimize the gearing but don't expect to reach 40 on the steep hills. That would take more power than is safe through the BBSHD. If you put a lot more power through a bicycle chain expect a lot of maintenance.

Good luck with your project, and Ride Safe!
Click to expand...
 
35mph is great, but I can only get there with the kind of effort that would tax most riders quite heavily. It is nothing like a scooter where you just hit the accelerator and relax. Anything above 22 mph begins to require effort or throttle.

Also my battery wouldn't make it 25 miles unless on PAS 1 or 2 and zero throttle.
 
Woodytx said:
Thank you, that is very thorough and seems consistent with my experience. I will try higher cadenced pedaling for sure. My battery is 52V 11.5A which explains the much shorter life.

I don't understand these guys claiming 45+mph and 30 on the hills. It's not possible at factory settings, you can tell within moments of hitting the throttle for the first time.
Click to expand...


Well, I am with you, but also think they could've done that on a very aerodynamic bike, and using aerobars... Otherwise I find it real hard to believe that with 25 amps, even at 59 volts you can do 40 mph on flats.

I run a Cyclone 3000W mid drive, and to achieve 30 mph on certain hills it requires around 2.3 kW, or 50 amps @ 44.6 volts (12S lipo) My bike will get up to 35 mph sustained at 1800 watts on flats under most conditions. And will push 40mph at 2.2 kW when the conditions are right. Otherwise breaking 40 is just not possible even at my 2.2 peak power level. My GNG had a 22 amp limit controller and the absolute best I could do on flats when the conditions were absolutely ideal (tail wind, smooth road) was ~30 mph.

G.
 
I mentioned the Cromotor just as an example of a serious commuting machine that I have a lot of experience with.

Pedaling my Cromotor setup is not practical due to the lack of gearing, if I had a wider frame with full mountain bike gearing it would be like pedaling any other heavily loaded cargo bike, possible but slow. However with 2kwh the range is such that non motorized pedaling is infrequent. There's enough capacity to easily make my (ex) round trip commutes with room to spare, even with a 26 mile 1800 feet climbing (and descending) route.

The Cyclone 3000W is noisy, and if you ran it at full peak Cromotor power (6KW+) the chain would blow out shortly if not instantly. so it is not in the same league either. For a commuter it would be too high maintenance, in my opinion, eating chains and brake pads every few months. With powerful ebraking on the downhills, the CroBorg doesn't need brake pad changes, even with years of use. The maintenance consisted of rear tires, which it consumed in about 3000 miles, and cheap freewheels which it consumed at the same rate. A better freewheel would fix that, but it would require some machining to make a White Industries unit fit. That's the way I like my commuting machines.

If you want a higher power mid drive the Cyclone is a low cost choice. But it doesn't compete with the BBSHD for ease of install, quiet operation, clean looks, minimum wires, tiewraps and boxes on the bike. The BBSHD is way ahead in maintaining a bike-like look and feel.

This thread is primarily about the BBSHD and the present topic is what the realistic performance is, and is not. It depends somewhat on the bike, the gearing and the rider weight. The rider input can make a difference in the short term, it is not too hard to pedal at the 600 watt level for a short burst, but at the longer term 200 watt level the performance is dominated by the motor. The best cadence for maximum output from the BBSHD is pretty high which makes it hard on the rider to contribute much. If you have the right gearing and can keep the BBSHD in the powerband at high cadence rates it will go fairly fast, but on my Diamondback I run out of gears on the high end with 42:12. You don't want to go below 14 teeth at this power level so a larger chainring would be required, and this would reduce the climbing capability that I got it for, so this is not something I'd pursue. If it gets to 30 or a bit over that's plenty for a mountain bike that can climb a tree, in my book. And it does that, easily. When it gets steep it becomes power limited at some speed, so do I - only my limit on a steep hill is less than 5 mph whereas the BBSHD gets to about 15. There's only so much you can do, it just takes power to climb hills. I suppose losing 100 pounds would make a big improvement, but that would put me way below my weight target and would not be healthy.

In any case 40 seems like a speed reached on a downhill rather than level. At least with my BBSHD. Thirty something on the flats I have seen. But around here it is hard to tell slight uphill from slight downhill from level. At least on most of my rides. Plus you need good surface and plenty of room. The surface roughness makes quite a difference. I'm running 30 psi in my mountain bike tires, so not very good for those speed runs.

If a little more performance is wanted, the Cyclone is a contender. But you have to give up a lot in visual and acoustic stealth. Everyone has different requirements. Folks with a bicycle background may feel the BBSHD is too much weight and power. Folks with a motorcycle background may feel it is too little. In reality it is capable of more power than legally allowed for an ebike almost anywhere on the planet. If it is set for legal power levels the BBSHD is very reliable and can generate this power silently and at low cadence rates comfortable for pedalers. So it is good for those who want to pedal and contribute but combine with epower at the legal limit. It can also be operated at higher power and cadence levels. But it is not a 3000 watt machine. Not the way it is built now. But it is reliable and quiet the way it is.
 
I agree, thats why I said that the cromotor was kinda way out there to compare to a BBSHD.

I was saying that higher power mid drive can deliver much more performance as well, and citing my own example as such, but in the end its all about the power you put into it.

G.

Alan B said:
I mentioned the Cromotor just as an example of a serious commuting machine that I have a lot of experience with.

Pedaling my Cromotor setup is not practical due to the lack of gearing, if I had a wider frame with full mountain bike gearing it would be like pedaling any other heavily loaded cargo bike, possible but slow. However with 2kwh the range is such that non motorized pedaling is infrequent. There's enough capacity to easily make my (ex) round trip commutes with room to spare, even with a 26 mile 1800 feet climbing (and descending) route.

The Cyclone 3000W is noisy, and if you ran it at full peak Cromotor power (6KW+) the chain would blow out shortly if not instantly. so it is not in the same league either. For a commuter it would be too high maintenance, in my opinion, eating chains and brake pads every few months. With powerful ebraking on the downhills, the CroBorg doesn't need brake pad changes, even with years of use. The maintenance consisted of rear tires, which it consumed in about 3000 miles, and cheap freewheels which it consumed at the same rate. A better freewheel would fix that, but it would require some machining to make a White Industries unit fit. That's the way I like my commuting machines.

If you want a higher power mid drive the Cyclone is a low cost choice. But it doesn't compete with the BBSHD for ease of install, quiet operation, clean looks, minimum wires, tiewraps and boxes on the bike. The BBSHD is way ahead in maintaining a bike-like look and feel.

This thread is primarily about the BBSHD and the present topic is what the realistic performance is, and is not. It depends somewhat on the bike, the gearing and the rider weight. The rider input can make a difference in the short term, it is not too hard to pedal at the 600 watt level for a short burst, but at the longer term 200 watt level the performance is dominated by the motor. The best cadence for maximum output from the BBSHD is pretty high which makes it hard on the rider to contribute much. If you have the right gearing and can keep the BBSHD in the powerband at high cadence rates it will go fairly fast, but on my Diamondback I run out of gears on the high end with 42:12. You don't want to go below 14 teeth at this power level so a larger chainring would be required, and this would reduce the climbing capability that I got it for, so this is not something I'd pursue. If it gets to 30 or a bit over that's plenty for a mountain bike that can climb a tree, in my book. And it does that, easily. When it gets steep it becomes power limited at some speed, so do I - only my limit on a steep hill is less than 5 mph whereas the BBSHD gets to about 15. There's only so much you can do, it just takes power to climb hills. I suppose losing 100 pounds would make a big improvement, but that would put me way below my weight target and would not be healthy.

In any case 40 seems like a speed reached on a downhill rather than level. At least with my BBSHD. Thirty something on the flats I have seen. But around here it is hard to tell slight uphill from slight downhill from level. At least on most of my rides. Plus you need good surface and plenty of room. The surface roughness makes quite a difference. I'm running 30 psi in my mountain bike tires, so not very good for those speed runs.

If a little more performance is wanted, the Cyclone is a contender. But you have to give up a lot in visual and acoustic stealth. Everyone has different requirements. Folks with a bicycle background may feel the BBSHD is too much weight and power. Folks with a motorcycle background may feel it is too little. In reality it is capable of more power than legally allowed for an ebike almost anywhere on the planet. If it is set for legal power levels the BBSHD is very reliable and can generate this power silently and at low cadence rates comfortable for pedalers. So it is good for those who want to pedal and contribute but combine with epower at the legal limit. It can also be operated at higher power and cadence levels. But it is not a 3000 watt machine. Not the way it is built now. But it is reliable and quiet the way it is.
Click to expand...
 
I have a question that I don't think has been addressed to date. We know the motor is not geared down enough for normal pedal cadence assisting when the motor revs are nice and high. Currently the HD1000 I believe is geared down at a 20 to 1 ratio. So my question is, lets say you like to pedal a bit for exercise - or you are trying to squeeze the most mileage out of your pack - are we just wasting our pedal input because of the motor revs are being kept too low for effecency in order to enable us to have some pedal input? For myself I will continue to lug the motor a bit for most of my riding because I like to pedal a bit, but lets say I realize I am getting low on AH out on the trail maybe I am better not to even try to pedal at all and simply gear down so the motor is happy and forget about pedalling at all?
 
Curious what other people's numbers are also, but some things to note:

Woodytx said:
I have read numerous posts (here and elsewhere) about 40+ mph speeds on flats and there is just no way mine will do that. I've reached 35+ mph with full throttle/PAS 5/hard pedaling and a decent stretch to build speed. On a relatively steep hill I can maybe go 15 mph.
Click to expand...

Probably should specify your gearing (replacing front with 52T front?), controller programming, and how you are measuring speed (Bafang's display has a limited number of wheel size settings).

Also I don't see many (any?) reports of 40mph+ out of stock, even driving it at 52V. Most I've heard is ~35mph if hard pedaling on road unless the controller is overridden.

Woodytx said:
My 52V battery lasts about 12-15 miles with moderate throttle and PAS, which seems short compared to the 20-40 mile estimates I had read about. I weigh 180 lbs and ride a decent hybrid; fitness and cycling experience are well above average, so it's nothing extraneous.
Click to expand...

The AH on the 52 (e.g. how many WH) and your terrain?

This person is reporting ~30WH/mile and is getting ~35miles with a pack that is almost 2x that of a typical Dolphin/Shark. He is getting 26miles on the low end so if your terrain is hilly and you have a shark pack, 12-15 doesn't sound out-of-sorts.

Hope this helps!
 
Thanks tychay, that is helpful. I did a lot of poking around before going with the BBSHD, and yes, there are loads of 40mph claims around the forums, YouTube, etc. I even read one fellow claiming 30 up big hills. He may have meant kph not mph (30 = 18) but that's still more than I'm getting on decent hills. An earlier comment here mentioned doing 4 miles at 30-35mph with soft pedaling, which doesn't seem realistic with mine although I've yet to try a long, flat stretch with no wind.

Again I'm quite happy with the BBSHD. Just trying to find out how fast it can go without effort, and for how long. Summer here is 5 months long and very hot & humid. Any effort will make you sweat like crazy, so it's not a realistic commute option unless you have a shower at work.
 
tychay said:
Curious what other people's numbers are also, but some things to note:

...

This person is reporting ~30WH/mile and is getting ~35miles with a pack that is almost 2x that of a typical Dolphin/Shark. He is getting 26miles on the low end so if your terrain is hilly and you have a shark pack, 12-15 doesn't sound out-of-sorts.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Hi tychay,

Thanks for quoting my article. :)

That was a hard ride, being late for lunch I pushed it to 20 plus up grade, hitting near 30 at times (according to the 26" setting on the BBSHD which is not quite right for 27.5 wheels). It did get the BBSHD fairly warm, too. Not hot. Took it a little easier on the ride home, but managed to depelete the 20AH pack in 26 miles, it literally switched off when I tried to climb the driveway to the garage. At that time I didn't have good battery instrumentation, power readout or accurate speed. The Batt-man improved that later on. One of the downsides of 52V batteries.

I see Lunacycle has new 13.5 amp hour 52V packs with high current cells. It just keeps getting better.
 
rs4race said:
I'm riding this to get my 42mph.
Click to expand...

42 mph on flats? headwind? downhill?

I can certainly tell the difference between my 14 lbs carbon road bike and my mtb prior to electrifying it; on human power there was a 5 mph difference on the same hilly commute to work between the two: 12.5 mph on the MTB vs 17.8 mph on the road bike so I certainly believe its possible to achieve 42 on ~1500 watts with the right conditions but you'll be operating at the ragged edge of the system. However, your post is giving me hope that I'll be able to shatter the 60 mph barrier on my tadpole trike, since recumbents do have a much lower air drag at speed than uprights...

Very nice ride, BTW.

G.
 
I have some questions about the bbshd
1) does the display that comes with it limit the amperage? (keep me from accidentally sending 100 amps down the thing)
2) how does the thing do on ridiculous steep hills, hills so steep your tires can barely hang on? (I don't care about top speed, I need torque)
3) stock chainring vs bling ring?
4) that plastic gear is going to wear out, how easy is it to swap? Can I buy a replacement gear?
5) waterproof? how stupid can I get with the water?
 
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