18650 spot welding -how to- ULTIMATE REPOSITORY

I will review soon some 0.2mm and greater thickness so I can update the table for greater strips and we can compare results.

My tests takes into account shrink wrap insulation and surface area for an average strip dimension, the maximum values are where the efficiency still very high (not appreciable voltage drop) and the temperature is just slightly over room temperature, and which from that point, the small increases amount of amps are noticiable exponentially increases on heat, so that's the maximum current recommended for an optimal efficiency and conductor worth.

I will also add more technical data to the tests as Voltage drop and differences in temperatures

Really good tests! thanks for sharing!
 
vicens said:
I can buy one SUNKKO 788+ and add about welding pen?
Connect as in the picture?
I want to make a battery packs 9x10 18650
Click to expand...
I prefer JP Spot welder. If breaks it can be fixed. Sunkko has very poor support if there is a problem.
 
Nobuo- I agree with your tables, the predicted amperage where heating started was spot on. Depending on many factors, one may be able to get away with a bit more but actually not that much maybe 2-4 amps. This does come with temp rise that may/may not be acceptable. I'll see if any friends have an IR gun and get some proper data.
@RTL-180amps, you're a crazy cat!!!
 
Monstarr said:
meelis11 said:
Punx0r said:
Try a Type B circuit breaker - these are used for devices with large inrush currents (motors, transformers) to prevent nuisance tripping.
Click to expand...

I had also similar problem - when turned welder on then breaker tripped. Connected welder to kitchen socket where normally electric oven is connected and no problem anymore, even when using 5m extension cord.
Click to expand...

The inrush current is probably larger than the (i think) type B breaker allows. From what I've read, type A isn't used in home installations because it trips very very quickly.
I will try a type C or check which group this already has when I get home after work. (I don't have a 30A group)

Thanks for the information. I will post the results.
Click to expand...

I apperently forgot the thing i promised in the bold part. I tried a C type breaker and it didnt trip as easy as a B type does. This allowed me to easily weld 0,15mm strips to the 26650 cells.
So use a C type breaker if you plan on using an aliexpress < €100 spotwelder.
 
eTrike said:
A few thoughts that I hope someone can provide insight for...

I'd like to weld with copper instead of nickel. A friend built a CD welder which was quite powerful (a bit too powerful over 15V) but I don't recall the Ws we calculated. I have read recently that these will work for welding copper to batteries.

I also came across plasma arc spot welders typically used for welding dissimilar metals for making jewelry. It seems these can be had fairly cheaply.

Are the recommended welders on the first post capable of welding copper?
Click to expand...
The JP Welder found in the for sale threads will do copper, but why, when nickel works so well and is state of the current art?
 
Hi all,

A while ago i saw some Youtube video of an automated CNC like spot/batterywelder.
I can't find the link or name anymore... anyone seen it or know it ?

Thanks,

Paul
 
tomjasz said:
eTrike said:
A few thoughts that I hope someone can provide insight for...

I'd like to weld with copper instead of nickel. A friend built a CD welder which was quite powerful (a bit too powerful over 15V) but I don't recall the Ws we calculated. I have read recently that these will work for welding copper to batteries.

I also came across plasma arc spot welders typically used for welding dissimilar metals for making jewelry. It seems these can be had fairly cheaply.

Are the recommended welders on the first post capable of welding copper?
Click to expand...
The JP Welder found in the for sale threads will do copper, but why, when nickel works so well and is state of the current art?
Click to expand...


Yeah, copper can be welded, but it's not as reliable as nickel. I always prefer welding nickel, and then soldering copper on it, it's much more reliable and can carry more amps. And it doesn't take much more time.
 
with the right setup, copper is not so hard to weld. its all about the electrode tips and the power required.
i used a dn10 with 1.5mm tungsten tips set into the copper electrodes, i had to modify the dn10 pulse time with 555 timer circuit to get the pulse short enough,
i suspect the JP welder would do a good job too with a large enough power source, it would be even more adjustable.
copper is cheaper and will carry much more current for the same thickness, perhaps something that really only comes into play with packs designed for really high current...
this one is good for ~190A

PICT0055.JPG
PICT0097.JPG
 
Instead of Nickel, how about Zinc?

I searched and compared the different kinds of Nickel sheets offered by OnlineMetals and the cheapest I found is Nickel A286. I chose a dimension of 1.57 mm by 12 inches by 24 inches and the price is 263.01 before shipping.
Then I looked for Zinc sheets, there is only one kind offered, Zinc EN 988. Again I chose a dimension of 1.57 mm by 12 inches by 24 inches and the price is 67.93 before shipping.

I also saw somewhere on the web that Zinc offers less resistance than Nickel.
 
I get looking for alternatives, but there is a reason ALL, repeat, ALL builders use nickel. If it's not broke...
 
Sorry about that eTrike.

I read that with welding Zinc, good ventilation is paramount as fumes will cause galvanize poisoning. Which causes severe headaches and nausea. So that would be one reason why it is less popular than Nickel. But the advantages are still there, less resistance than Nickel, a quarter of the price of Nickel, it has corrosion resistance like Nickel, less heat needed to weld as it melts at a much lower temp than Nickel. Where's that Metallurgist?
 
I guess hundreds of battery builders ain't enough. :wink:
 
I see it much like the wheel, not much to do to improve on round. Until someone decides to run a series of tests with real data it's just all talk. Fine by me, I prefer to stay with what has been shown to work. If there was a cheaper material do we think for two seconds the Chinese wouldn't have adopted it? Or does logic not play into this. What someone with lots of disposable cash does on the track trying to break records and what a hobbiest will do to build a battery might be different paths? Hey have fun. Just suggesting if it ain't broke... :D
 
I understand perfectly where you're coming from tomjasz. Most of the times I think the exact same way. But this bugs me about Zinc. Maybe I should change my question. Considering that Zinc is almost four times cheaper than Nickel, that it has a bit less electrical resistance and is corrosion resistant just like Nickel, than why isn't everybody using Zinc? Is the need for good ventilation the only drawback of using Zinc or is there other reasons?
 
eTrike said:
If copper can be I'm sure Zinc can be. The same question led me to the jewelry welder question above. IDK why the copper hate--.
Click to expand...

I think copper has its place. But I have a stack of liFePo4 that used copper tabs spot welded to the end of the cells and the copper failed to take the repeated stress of heating/cooling/vibrations in the application it was used in. The copper tore holes where all the spot welds were.
 
Nice thread for helping locate 18650 build parts.

Quick questions I was hoping to get some feedback on.

I am looking to buy a large battery shrink wrap and they come in a lot of sizes.

Should I buy a size that is on the bigger size but will still shrink enough to fit around the pack. Or should I buy a size that will just fit my battery into it? I am not sure if it is better to go looser or tighter with the wrap.
 
Arlo1 said:
eTrike said:
If copper can be I'm sure Zinc can be. The same question led me to the jewelry welder question above. IDK why the copper hate--.
Click to expand...

I think copper has its place. But I have a stack of liFePo4 that used copper tabs spot welded to the end of the cells and the copper failed to take the repeated stress of heating/cooling/vibrations in the application it was used in. The copper tore holes where all the spot welds were.
Click to expand...

i realise copper has limited mechanical resilience...but tell me , did the lifepo4 pack rely on the cell tabs to hold it together?
even with nickel, i would only rely on the tabs to function as conductors, not to hold the pack together. that is the job of lots of hotglue :lol:
 
eTrike said:
"bigger size but will still shrink enough to fit around the pack"- that one.
Click to expand...
Damn stuff can be spendy in small lots!
 
ridethelightning said:
Arlo1 said:
eTrike said:
If copper can be I'm sure Zinc can be. The same question led me to the jewelry welder question above. IDK why the copper hate--.
Click to expand...

I think copper has its place. But I have a stack of liFePo4 that used copper tabs spot welded to the end of the cells and the copper failed to take the repeated stress of heating/cooling/vibrations in the application it was used in. The copper tore holes where all the spot welds were.
Click to expand...

i realise copper has limited mechanical resilience...but tell me , did the lifepo4 pack rely on the cell tabs to hold it together?
even with nickel, i would only rely on the tabs to function as conductors, not to hold the pack together. that is the job of lots of hotglue :lol:
Click to expand...
What do you think happens to the hot glue when heated.
No the copper was not there to hold things together.
 
Mammalian04 said:
Anyone ever come across a honeycomb cell holders? Would be great to find 20s. Here is a 13s example.

It comes with the zigzag nickel strips (would save a TON of time).
Click to expand...


Great find! Check out their store. Lots of useful items for building!


http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1379203

I even found a case to rebuild my Makita 7.2 batteries!
 

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