Converting my Oxelo Town 9 EasyFold Scooter
- Thread starter stanleykwong
- Start date
made_in_the_alps_legacy
10 kW
@takika: 13/100 ratio ?! waoow i am sure you have done the math 'cause u will need high kv motor on 6s, maybe 800? Better go high voltage
Of course, I did the math and don't need such high KV motor:
Motor speed: 270kv*6s*3.7V=5994rpm
ratio: 100/13=7.69
wheel speed: 6000rpm/7.69=780wheel rpm = 13r/second
wheel circumfence: 0,2m*3.14=0.628m
theoretical speed: 13rps*0.628m=8.164m/s=29.39km/h=18mph
In practice, with high timing advance I get the same speed like it is calculated above.
I wish, I could have more aggressive gearing as the top speed is too much for such a small scooter, but acceleration is never enough.
T.
Motor speed: 270kv*6s*3.7V=5994rpm
ratio: 100/13=7.69
wheel speed: 6000rpm/7.69=780wheel rpm = 13r/second
wheel circumfence: 0,2m*3.14=0.628m
theoretical speed: 13rps*0.628m=8.164m/s=29.39km/h=18mph
In practice, with high timing advance I get the same speed like it is calculated above.
I wish, I could have more aggressive gearing as the top speed is too much for such a small scooter, but acceleration is never enough.
T.
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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So I got around to taking apart the motor mount that comes with the kit. I've confirmed the bolt mount holes are spaced 30mm center hole to center hole. That matches exactly the bolt holes on a Tacon or one of the many Tacon clones. Unfortunately, all the Tacon clones (except the Enertion r-spec 2.0) have a 10mm diameter shaft and it's surprisingly hard to find motor pulleys with a 10mm bore.
Tacon is sold out and the Enertion r-spec 2.0 is a bit pricey, so I'm thinking about getting the Turnigy SK3 6374 192KV. The bolt hole spacing is 32mm but that's close enough to where I can use the existing mount without any adapter. Might have to Dremel the mount a bit but not much. The Turnigy's shaft is 8mm in diameter, which is good because it matches the EMP motor I have now so I can reuse the existing motor pulley. The Turnigy motor shaft is about 5mm longer than the EMP motor pulley, but I think I can use some spacers/washers to compensate if necessary.
If I switch out the motor, I shouldn't have to make any other changes to get it to climb hills, right? I suppose I could keep the existing motor and switch out the gears and belt, but that seems like it'd be more trouble. Besides, I'd like to have a more powerful motor that gives me more headroom for the future.
One last thing, I did fry my ESC. It's a cheap HobbyWing Skywalker that rated for 60A and at most a 6S battery. I pushed it too hard. I'm looking forward to getting my VESC.
Tacon is sold out and the Enertion r-spec 2.0 is a bit pricey, so I'm thinking about getting the Turnigy SK3 6374 192KV. The bolt hole spacing is 32mm but that's close enough to where I can use the existing mount without any adapter. Might have to Dremel the mount a bit but not much. The Turnigy's shaft is 8mm in diameter, which is good because it matches the EMP motor I have now so I can reuse the existing motor pulley. The Turnigy motor shaft is about 5mm longer than the EMP motor pulley, but I think I can use some spacers/washers to compensate if necessary.
If I switch out the motor, I shouldn't have to make any other changes to get it to climb hills, right? I suppose I could keep the existing motor and switch out the gears and belt, but that seems like it'd be more trouble. Besides, I'd like to have a more powerful motor that gives me more headroom for the future.
One last thing, I did fry my ESC. It's a cheap HobbyWing Skywalker that rated for 60A and at most a 6S battery. I pushed it too hard. I'm looking forward to getting my VESC.
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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While waiting for my VESC to arrive, I was thinking about how to setup a variable braking mechanism with the existing lever handbrake on my Oxelo Town 9EF. According to vedder, it's possible to switch the thumb throttle to a variable brake by "connecting a button between the servo signal and ground wire"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=63540&p=1042854&hilit=Vedder+thumb#p1042854
Has anyone tried this yet? Would it be possible to rig a hidden wire brake sensor to do that?
http://www.greenbikekit.com/hidden-wire-brake-sensor.html
Even better would be if the brake lever itself generated the variable brake signal. Is that doable? And I don't need regen braking to get the variable braking to work, right?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=63540&p=1042854&hilit=Vedder+thumb#p1042854
Has anyone tried this yet? Would it be possible to rig a hidden wire brake sensor to do that?
http://www.greenbikekit.com/hidden-wire-brake-sensor.html
Even better would be if the brake lever itself generated the variable brake signal. Is that doable? And I don't need regen braking to get the variable braking to work, right?
maxchilton
10 W
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- Jul 15, 2015
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stanleykwong said:
the problem is you have a one-way bearing inside the motor pulley, this allows the scooter to coast without any drag from the motor, however it also prevents any type of motor braking or regen capability. Your options are: A: give up the "coasting" ability and use a regular pulley on the motor shaft and have regen and motor braking or B: Have "coasting" and give up motor braking and regen.
IMO, option B is better because it allows you to ride the scooter normally without motor drag if you ever run out of batteries or have a esc failure.
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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Oh, I see. I just wanted to get some ebrake working because the handbrake on the scooter is pretty weak right now. I might be willing to give up the coasting ability if the ebrake gives me much better braking. Where would I find a good motor pulley that would allow regen and ebraking? I might try it both ways and see which one I like better. Thanks!
Unfortunately the stock alu pulleys are weak. My first pulleys were made from aluminium, worn out very fast (even with the 5060 motor). The current one is made from stainless steel, lasting much longer.
If you are using 9-10mm HTD-5 belt,I can share with you the 3d model of my pulley and you can order it made from stainless steel, from a local CNC shop.
It's 12teeth, 8mm shaft, 3 grub screws design.
T.
If you are using 9-10mm HTD-5 belt,I can share with you the 3d model of my pulley and you can order it made from stainless steel, from a local CNC shop.
It's 12teeth, 8mm shaft, 3 grub screws design.
T.
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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Takyka,
Yes, I'd love to get the 3D model of both the motor pulley and the wheel pulley if it's not too much trouble. The belt I have now has HTD 325-5M printed on it, and the width is 9mm. I'm not that familiar with belts, but I'm guessing it means the belt is 325mm around, with a 5mm pitch, right? How big is the belt that you were using?
Also, did you sand/grind down the spots on the motor shaft where the grub screws attach? The motor pulley I have now has a one way bearing and it just slides off the motor shaft. There doesn't seem to be any attachment of the motor pulley to the motor shaft. Just some c-clips holding it in place.
Thanks for all the help!
Yes, I'd love to get the 3D model of both the motor pulley and the wheel pulley if it's not too much trouble. The belt I have now has HTD 325-5M printed on it, and the width is 9mm. I'm not that familiar with belts, but I'm guessing it means the belt is 325mm around, with a 5mm pitch, right? How big is the belt that you were using?
Also, did you sand/grind down the spots on the motor shaft where the grub screws attach? The motor pulley I have now has a one way bearing and it just slides off the motor shaft. There doesn't seem to be any attachment of the motor pulley to the motor shaft. Just some c-clips holding it in place.
Thanks for all the help!
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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Got both my Tacon Bigfoot 160's. I have to say, they are beautiful motors. And they're a drop-in replacement for the EMP motor that came with the belt kit.
The aluminum plate that attaches to motor mount is already showing metal fatigue. I'm a bit worried that it'll fail eventually. Maybe I should get a hardened steel replacement made. Not sure how much CNC metal shops around here charge.
Anyway, now I'm just waiting for my VESC from chaka. I got it with the extra heatsinks and vedder's anti-spark switch. It'll be really cool when I get it.
-Stanley
The aluminum plate that attaches to motor mount is already showing metal fatigue. I'm a bit worried that it'll fail eventually. Maybe I should get a hardened steel replacement made. Not sure how much CNC metal shops around here charge.
Anyway, now I'm just waiting for my VESC from chaka. I got it with the extra heatsinks and vedder's anti-spark switch. It'll be really cool when I get it.
-Stanley
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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takyka,
Can you private message me the files? Also, what size belt were you using? Did you drill holes into the wheel to mount the wheel pulley? Did the ESC you were using have any regen braking capability?
Thanks!
Can you private message me the files? Also, what size belt were you using? Did you drill holes into the wheel to mount the wheel pulley? Did the ESC you were using have any regen braking capability?
Thanks!
Hello,
Try download from here:
http://s3.toldacuccot.hu/letoltes?sid=c1c60aa7af2bb7b2c8c8aac5c33c0aa3&ros=8f14e45fce
I'm using HTD-5 belt, width is 9mm.
Yes, I drilled holes to wheel "spokes". If you check the big sprocket, you see there is a middle part. I used it for alignment, then cuted it out.
T.
Try download from here:
http://s3.toldacuccot.hu/letoltes?sid=c1c60aa7af2bb7b2c8c8aac5c33c0aa3&ros=8f14e45fce
I'm using HTD-5 belt, width is 9mm.
Yes, I drilled holes to wheel "spokes". If you check the big sprocket, you see there is a middle part. I used it for alignment, then cuted it out.
T.
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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I'm still waiting to get my VESC. Chaka had some issues with his supplier giving him incorrect parts. I hope to get my VESC within a week or two. In the meantime, I'm going to test using pneumatic wheels to smooth out the ride. I bought micro flex air wheels, http://www.microkickboard.com/200mm-air-filled-wheel. Actually,I only bought one because they only had one left in stock. I bought another, similar generic air filled wheel from aliexpress.
When I get everything setup, I'll definitely report back.
When I get everything setup, I'll definitely report back.
Hello! I'm glad to find out that someone else is interessed in building e-scooters.
I'm working on a electric oxelo scooter from almost one year. I designed a brushless motor. My last version of motor runs with 27km/h maximum speed (I have 68 kg)
The battery runs for 20-25 km, Li-ion. Now I'm working at the software and power optimisation part. I will attach some pics. What do you guys think?
Cheers!
I'm working on a electric oxelo scooter from almost one year. I designed a brushless motor. My last version of motor runs with 27km/h maximum speed (I have 68 kg)
The battery runs for 20-25 km, Li-ion. Now I'm working at the software and power optimisation part. I will attach some pics. What do you guys think?
Cheers!
Attachments
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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That looks cool! The hub motor is on the front? Any problems braking hard going downhill? I'd be worried about going head first into the sidewalk.
Anyway, I finally got my VESC from Chaka and then promptly burned out the drv8302 chip trying to do motor detection with FOC. For the Tacon Bigfoot 160, I don't recommend FOC. It's not worth it. Now I have to wait 2 weeks for the VESC to be repaired and sent back to me.
Also, the Micro flex air pneumatic wheel I got doesn't work with the belt drive kit. The rim is too thick. There's no room for the motor shaft and pulley.
One more thing, the Tacon Bigfoot 160's shaft rubs a little against the original PU Oxelo wheel. But it's only a few millimeters. I'm going to shave the wheel down later.
That's all for now.
Anyway, I finally got my VESC from Chaka and then promptly burned out the drv8302 chip trying to do motor detection with FOC. For the Tacon Bigfoot 160, I don't recommend FOC. It's not worth it. Now I have to wait 2 weeks for the VESC to be repaired and sent back to me.
Also, the Micro flex air pneumatic wheel I got doesn't work with the belt drive kit. The rim is too thick. There's no room for the motor shaft and pulley.
One more thing, the Tacon Bigfoot 160's shaft rubs a little against the original PU Oxelo wheel. But it's only a few millimeters. I'm going to shave the wheel down later.
That's all for now.
Yes, the motor is in the front wheel. Sensored, brushless. I have 2 braking systems, mechanical and KERS, the braking power was enought until I mounted a air tube wheel on rear. Also I'm looking for non-inflatable rubber wheels. Can someone recomend me a link where I can buy?
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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Yes, so I finally got my VESC from chaka. It works great except I melted the spark protection switch that came with it. I pushed it too hard going uphill with a 6S. I guess too many amps. I'm working with chaka to see if a new improved spark protection switch will work. In the meantime, I'm bypassing the switch entirely.
I'm using a 10S battery now, cheap Multistar 6S and 4S in series. It's got great torque and power for going uphill. But too much power for the gears that came with the kit I bought. First the belt started slipping when going uphill. Then the screws that hold the wheel gear bent and came loose. The bracket that holds the wheel gear also cracked, so I'll have to replace that as well. What I really need is a gear more like takyka's. If you're reading this takyka, can you resend the gear 3D model files? The download link you provided doesn't seem to work. I'd also be willing to pay you for the actual CNC machined gears. I'll pay for the postage, cost to manufacture and your time. Let me know if you're interested.
As a final resort, I'm considering getting a hub motor, but I don't like how heavy they are. And I don't know if I'm limited in how I power it. Will it work with a 10S and the VESC I've already got? Plus, I'd have to cut into the rear fork of the scooter and I was trying to avoid that.
I'm using a 10S battery now, cheap Multistar 6S and 4S in series. It's got great torque and power for going uphill. But too much power for the gears that came with the kit I bought. First the belt started slipping when going uphill. Then the screws that hold the wheel gear bent and came loose. The bracket that holds the wheel gear also cracked, so I'll have to replace that as well. What I really need is a gear more like takyka's. If you're reading this takyka, can you resend the gear 3D model files? The download link you provided doesn't seem to work. I'd also be willing to pay you for the actual CNC machined gears. I'll pay for the postage, cost to manufacture and your time. Let me know if you're interested.
As a final resort, I'm considering getting a hub motor, but I don't like how heavy they are. And I don't know if I'm limited in how I power it. Will it work with a 10S and the VESC I've already got? Plus, I'd have to cut into the rear fork of the scooter and I was trying to avoid that.
Sucks that you're having issues. But it sounds like the motor/vesc is going to give you plenty of power once the drive train is beefed up.
Once you're back up and running, if you're anywhere around downtown San Francisco, I'd love to check out your scooter sometime. I just got my Razor scooter electric conversion up and running and would be cool to check yours out.
Once you're back up and running, if you're anywhere around downtown San Francisco, I'd love to check out your scooter sometime. I just got my Razor scooter electric conversion up and running and would be cool to check yours out.
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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- 28
ApacheXMD, yeah, once I get everything up and running again, I'd be happy to meet up. I work in SOMA, near the 4th and King Caltrain station. I'm curious why you didn't go with a hub motor like this one: https://www.uumotor.com/dropout-size-58mm-8-inch-gearless-hub-motor.html It should work with the existing fork, just need to make a cut to slide the hub motor in. No need for welding, or taking the hub motor apart.
Well I was debating back and forth between hub motor and outrunner with a gear. I picked up my Razor for a good price and the rear is built very narrow such that a gear and belt would be difficult to attach without cutting up the rear. I was following your thread and shortcircuit911's thread with great interest before diving into my project. I was super interested to see how the outrunner setup would turn out on yours, since I loved the idea of a lightweight and powerful motor. I was all set to 3D print a gear to attach to the rear wheel but I couldn't figure out a good way to run the drivetrain.
So I basically resigned to using a hub motor and I was about to order that exact motor you're showing there. But the cost with controller/throttle/LCD display was $330 from uumotor. When shortcircuit911 recently upgraded his scooter to dual hubs, I bought his old motor and controller for a good price, knowing I had to put in extra work to get everything to fit. All in, my scooter project was under $200 (not counting batteries, which I already had from my existing power tools). The welding and everything added quite a bit of time to the project, but it was fun.
I work near SOMA too. I'll hit you up once you get your scooter going. You may catch me scooting down howard toward third street on my commute home in the afternoons.
So I basically resigned to using a hub motor and I was about to order that exact motor you're showing there. But the cost with controller/throttle/LCD display was $330 from uumotor. When shortcircuit911 recently upgraded his scooter to dual hubs, I bought his old motor and controller for a good price, knowing I had to put in extra work to get everything to fit. All in, my scooter project was under $200 (not counting batteries, which I already had from my existing power tools). The welding and everything added quite a bit of time to the project, but it was fun.
I work near SOMA too. I'll hit you up once you get your scooter going. You may catch me scooting down howard toward third street on my commute home in the afternoons.
stanleykwong
10 mW
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- Oct 30, 2015
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This may be the last update for a while. The wheel gear won't stay attached to the wheel. It seems the M5 thread has been stripped on 2 of the 5 holes on the wheel gear. So I'm out of luck, I'll either have to get another wheel gear from China or try to weld the current wheel gear somehow or get a completely new wheel gear maybe from takyka (but then I'd have to get a new belt and possibly a new motor pulley as well) I could also give up on the outrunner completely and get a hub motor. Anyone use an 8 inch hub motor with VESC?
