Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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marcn   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by marcn » Jan 16 2016 2:16am

Thanks for the clarification tek!

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 16 2016 1:37pm

No problem - thanks for the post!
There were a bunch of revisions since the old p6 Guide was posted and that SoC bit sneaked by...

Anyhow - added a few words about this SoC matter and also mention of the different handling of SoC for LiFePo4 - only affected a small bit on two pages.

The updated version is available for download here.
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dekes1   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by dekes1 » Feb 09 2016 2:28pm

Is there a benefit to mounting multiple magnets around the circumference of the wheel when using an external magnetic speed sensor? (i.e increasing pole count)?
Does that provide more accurate speed readings or higher resolution or any other side benefits? Any negatives?

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Feb 09 2016 4:13pm

yes there is. it picks up speed much sooner. no need for a full rev for getting a speed reading. i mounted 3 magnets and get almost instant speed.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 13 2016 3:38pm

An updated version of the Unofficial Guide is available for download here.

A section has been added to 'Tips and Tricks' describing how to log trip data as described in this thread: Cheap CA Data Logging with Phone or PC.

EDIT - Darn - a hyperlink in the new section didn't work. Fixed it and re-posted as 3.0e. Super minor fix and not worth a new download unless you need that particular link...
Last edited by teklektik on Feb 16 2016 12:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
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teklektik   10 GW

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CA V3 - Linear Temp Sensor Settings Calculator

Post by teklektik » Feb 13 2016 7:21pm

A simple XLS spreadsheet calculator to compute CA settings for linear temp sensors can be found on the Unofficial User Guide download page here.

The calculator implements the example calculation illustrated in the Guide and requires just a few resistance and temperature values readily available from datasheets. All of the presently available KTY81, KTY83, and KTY84 devices are already entered and settings computed. The spreadsheet can be opened/operated with Excel or other free spread apps (Apache OpenOffice, LibreOffice, etc).

EDIT - oops - forgot to enable a couple of fields - re-posted as v3....
Here's a snap if you just need settings for one of the pre-calculated parts:
CaV3_LinearTempSensorCalculator_v3.png
A couple of commonly used parts are highlighted...
CaV3_LinearTempSensorCalculator_v3.png (51.71 KiB) Viewed 3154 times
Last edited by teklektik on Feb 15 2016 10:29am, edited 2 times in total.
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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Merlin » Feb 14 2016 6:37pm

excellent work....as always ;)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Nathan » Feb 16 2016 3:22am

I have a CAv3 that is limiting power without me doing anything ?

I have set the AMP, power and speed limits very high but for some reason when i run the throttle through the CA i get only about 1600w then when i run the same motor and bypass the CA i get 4500w ! this is a mid drive so the only time you see such high power is first few seconds of hard takeoff

But i cannot find what is causing things limit ? when i look on the test screen i can see the in and our throttle voltage is very similar so how can their be so much less power ?

I have the throttle in pass through mode , and also i just tried increase the thr out DV/DT to very high levels and it also makes no difference.

What else could be limiting the power and how can i find what that is ? or how can i disable all limiting ?

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Merlin » Feb 16 2016 4:44am

what is DT DV?


what throttle + range (Voltage) do you use? when your "throttle out" is not "maximum" then you didnt get full throttle.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 16 2016 11:32am

Nathan wrote:I have a CAv3 that is limiting power without me doing anything ?
...
What else could be limiting the power and how can i find what that is ? or how can i disable all limiting ?
Quite a few things, actually...
  1. To ask the inevitable question: did you carefully follow the installation steps in the Guide?
    (This probably seems annoying, but it gets a hundred questions off the table and pretty much ensures that we understand exactly what you did and what you adjusted.)
  2. Which kind of CA-to-controller hookup do you use and and did you zero the amps?
After that - the quickest way to look for issues is for you to pull a settings 'xxx.hex' file from your CA using the Setup Utility and post it up here as an attachment.

hey merlin-
Thanks for the kind words!
By DV DT he means dV/dt or the rate of change of throttle voltage -- controlled by the various ThrO->xxRate parameters. He cranked them up to be as responsive as possible so the initial transient power surge would not get lost in throttle damping - which was not a bad idea....
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Nathan   10 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Nathan » Feb 16 2016 3:37pm

i downloaded the setup utilitiy. But I cannot find my USB to ttl cable?? does that come in the box of the Cav3 or analogue or is that an optional item ?

Can I make one myself from a USB cable and stereo pin plug ? otherwise this will take a long time to come from grintech.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 16 2016 5:47pm

The cable used to be included with the unit since the software was really beta and a download to get the production release was always in the cards. However, after Dec of last year with the formal release of 3.0, the cable was removed from the package as part of the general CA price reduction.

Unfortunately, your profile does not mention a location - if you're in EU you can get one directly from FTDI in the UK. Actually, any TTL to USB cable should work - I've flashed CA firmware using a Lyen controller cable - but it's really not worth the effort to hack the connector and dance around the driver business, etc compared to the cost of a cable. There will be new 3.1 firmware out soon anyway, so it's a good investment.

Since you have Setup up and running and there are only a handful of parameters that should have been changed, I would recommend that you just transcribe your settings into Setup and dump the file. Be sure to copy and verify ALL the settings - not just the ones you think are important.
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Nathan   10 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Nathan » Feb 17 2016 4:39am

Hi I found a cable and have attached the hex file now. So what is limiting my power ?
Attachments

[The extension hex has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]


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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 17 2016 12:16pm

Nathan wrote:I have a CAv3 that is limiting power without me doing anything ?

I have set the AMP, power and speed limits very high but for some reason when i run the throttle through the CA i get only about 1600w then when i run the same motor and bypass the CA i get 4500w ! this is a mid drive so the only time you see such high power is first few seconds of hard takeoff
You have configured limiting as shown here - certainly this will prevent you from reaching the 4500W that you are trying to achieve. You haven't told us anything about you motor, controller, etc., but with a 4500W draw "first few seconds of hard takeoff", it sounds like you may have a Xie Chang (Infineon) controller programmed with a non-zero block time (this 'blocks' the programmed controller current limit for that time period allowing essentially unlimited amps). Since you have turned down the CA power and current limits, you will never see this performance due to CA override. Start by restoring these to the max values.
nathan_1.png
nathan_1.png (134.42 KiB) Viewed 3032 times
These settings are suspiciously the same, which brings me back to the questions I asked above about following the setup procedure.
nathan_2.png
nathan_2.png (134.09 KiB) Viewed 3032 times
So again:
teklektik wrote:
  1. To ask the inevitable question: did you carefully follow the installation steps in the Guide?
    (This probably seems annoying, but it gets a hundred questions off the table and pretty much ensures that we understand exactly what you did and what you adjusted.)
  2. Which kind of CA-to-controller hookup do you use and and did you zero the amps?
I'm guessing that you used a CA external shunt since the configured shunt value is exactly 1.000 mOhm (the default value) instead of some controller-specific value. If this is not the case and you are using a CA- compatible plug and play controller, then the amp readings and CA current limiting are almost certainly uncalibrated and incorrect.

I also see that you have enabled temperature monitoring/limiting - the values look a little odd. In any case even if correct, as the Guide indicates, you should not have any of these advanced features enabled during basic setup.

So -those are some quick observations.
Beyond that, you are best served by inspecting the limit flags as described in the Guide ("4.7 Test Throttle and Limit Settings (Interpreting Limit Flags)") to see exactly what limiting is in effect and use the table to identify and adjust the offending parameter. If there are no indicating limit flags, then it's possible you have an instance of speed limiting due to acceleration (that 4500W getaway) in which case you might try the remedy described in section "4.9.2 Speed Gain (PSGain, IntSGain, DSGain)". I also recommend that you lower Pref->Averaging to ensure that the display updates rapidly enough for you to see the actual CA operation instead of the display-filtered version.

Also - what firmware version are you running as reported on the splash screen?
If it's a 3.0pXXX preliminary version, you need to re-flash with the 3.0 production release.

Anyway - some things to look at and try.
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Nathan   10 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Nathan » Feb 17 2016 4:31pm

So does the battery settings 40v also have an effect on current limiting ? why is that its confusing if so?

The reason is this battery is 40v but I swap to series sometimes hence 80v to get this power. I thought that voltage setting is only used for the battery fuel gauge.

No this controller is a Kelly.

For the throttle input and output, yes they are exactly the same why would they be different ? I want the CAv3 to output the same voltage range the throttle gives into it, hence they are exactly the same.

I have the 3P6 Version CA

I am using the standard external option 1 Mohm shunt.

And yes I followed the guide, but their is 100 pages so its hard to know what is relevant to what especially for this current limiting issue as its not in the current limit settings or display part of the CA.

yes I have zeroed the amps, also their should be no difference to the display time of the CA as the only thing I am changing is bypassing the throttle wires from the CA to get full power. i.e the display is the same the CA.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 17 2016 7:39pm

  • If you had stated you issue in terms of current limiting instead of power limiting, the configured operating voltage of your system would not have played a role. With no provided information about your battery, there is no other way to make sense of '4500W' or '1600W' limiting except to do the math.
  • The reason for adjusting the input and output voltage ranges is described and illustrated in the Guide - no point in re-typing it here.
  • The software you are using is as old as dirt - at the outset, the Guide asks you to update it to the newest stuff.
  • The display adjustment was recommended to ensure you did not miss transient current and power excursions that can indicate specific problems.
  • You have not mentioned if restoring the current and power limits to max values had an effect.
  • You have not mentioned if you tried disabling the temp monitoring and if that had an effect.
Here's the thing - as I mentioned above, there are lots of settings and ways to wire the V3. The Guide lays out the bare minimum so that things will work with near 100% certainty. If they don't, it's clear exactly what has been done. In short, it's a cookbook setup with cookbook solutions to avoid the necessity of understanding everyone's unique wing-it installation and configuration.
  • The Guide is far from perfect, but in spite of your claim, you have not followed it in some basic respects - and seem to want to present reasons why your alterations make sense. Regardless of the effects of these modifications, as indicators, they make me wonder about other installation steps.
  • My post above gives the specific section to diagnose what limiting is in play and how to correct it, but it seems you haven't pursued that - or at least have reported no results and asked no questions about the content.

    In spite of any Guide setup issues, that section exactly answers your question:
    • "So what is limiting my power ?"
I apologize if this is coming across as snippy, but I'm having a bit of a bad day, and that's all I've got. There are other very knowledgeable V3 users who perhaps can step up to present information in a form more helpful to you. Otherwise I recommend Grin Tech Support (they are moving to new facilities and response may justifiably be less than stellar for a bit).

I hope you resolve this problem so you can enjoy the V3 - it's a fascinating device.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Feb 18 2016 4:43pm

Teklektik you must have had a REALLY bad day...
And to be honest this is one of the very best guide i've ever seen!!!

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 18 2016 7:09pm

Ya - Epically bad...
A good time to stay away from people, financial decisions, and heavy machinery.
I guess I should have stayed away from the forum, too....

Anyhow, thanks for kind words about the Guide. Appreciated.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by snellemin » Feb 25 2016 2:44pm

What makes the V3 CA auto scroll through the screens while in use? Never seen this before, until I updated some new settings on the pc and send it to the CA.
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 25 2016 2:57pm

Hmmm - Shouldn't be happening. I'm not actually sure I can see how even a funky button could cause this...

So-
  • What firmware are you using?
  • Is splash screen displayed with the normal delay?
  • What screens are appearing? (setup screens, status screens?)
  • If status screens, all screens or only those selected in the 'stopped' flagword?
  • Does the scrolling stop if you press either button?
  • Do the Swap Battery and Change Mode screens come up with a double button press?
  • Did the strange behavior start immediately when you sent the new settings or sometime later?
  • Can you post up the Settings file that you loaded?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by markz » Feb 25 2016 3:05pm

If I bought my CA3-DP 2 yrs ago, should I update firmware?
I havent actually used it much, rarely actually. I just get to busy with projects and my bike hasnt had batteries since my Hobby King LiPo's exploded.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by snellemin » Feb 25 2016 3:14pm

teklektik wrote:Hmmm - Shouldn't be happening. I'm not actually sure I can see how even a funky button could cause this...

So-
  • What firmware are you using? V3 final version
  • Is splash screen displayed with the normal delay? Yes
  • What screens are appearing? (setup screens, status screens?) Status Screens
  • If status screens, all screens or only those selected in the 'stopped' flagword? All
  • Does the scrolling stop if you press either button? Yes
  • Do the Swap Battery and Change Mode screens come up with a double button press? No
  • Did the strange behavior start immediately when you sent the new settings or sometime later? Only after a bit of riding.
  • Can you post up the Settings file that you loaded?
where do I post this?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz9g3B ... sp=sharing
Silent speed Racer

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 25 2016 3:59pm

Well, as these things go - it works fine here with your file - which looks fine...
  • Does the scrolling start as soon as it leaves the Splash Screen?
  • Does it do that always?
  • Does it scroll when moving and when standing?
snellemin wrote:
teklektik wrote:
  • If status screens, all screens or only those selected in the 'stopped' flagword? All
    okay so, if you disable a stopped screen, it displays anyway, right?
    In your case the human stats screens display even though they are disabled?
    Does the 'moving screens' flagword have any effect?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by snellemin » Feb 25 2016 4:48pm

teklektik wrote:Well, as these things go - it works fine here with your file - which looks fine...
  • Does the scrolling start as soon as it leaves the Splash Screen?
  • Does it do that always?
  • Does it scroll when moving and when standing?
snellemin wrote:
teklektik wrote:
  • If status screens, all screens or only those selected in the 'stopped' flagword? All
    okay so, if you disable a stopped screen, it displays anyway, right?
    In your case the human stats screens display even though they are disabled?
    Does the 'moving screens' flagword have any effect?

I'm going to resend the hex file onto CA when I get home today and see if it still happens. I'll report back.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by snellemin » Feb 26 2016 10:28am

Went home last nite and resend the hex file onto my CA. This morning it seemed to work ok, but later started to go through the different status screens at random again. I also reflashed the firmware before uploading the hex file. Lunch time I'll use my old hex file and see if the issue goes away.

All I really did, was tweak the up- and downrate of the throttle and added another profile. The old setting only had two profiles and a less aggressive throttle setting.
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