What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Hey everyone!

I have found many posts about "most powerful hub motors" but I'm not sure if they are up to date. Seems like the most recent one is from a year ago and I was just wondering if there have been any new releases in terms of powerful hub motors.

Here are the ones I've found (and that were suggested) so far (in order of power [high to low]):

EnerTrac MHM602 Brushless 10kW Hub Motor
Cost: $1,295.00
Where to buy: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/motors/brushless-motors/enertrac-mhm602-brushless-10kw-hub-motor.html
Nominal: 10,000
Peak: 30,000
Voltage: 72V-96V
Torque: ?
Lamination Size: ?
Turn count (T): 2T?
Konstant per voltage (Kv): ?
Stator/Magnets: ?
Max Efficiency: ?
Weight: ?
Dropout spacing: ~190.5 mm
NOTE: MEANT FOR MOTORCYCLES. May be difficult to attach freewheel or fit into bicycle frame

- QS / Quan Shun, 273 8,000W:
Cost: $559
Where to buy: http://www.hs-escooter.com/
Nominal: 8,000W
Peak: ?
Voltage: 72V/84V/96V
Torque: 200N.m
Lamination size: ?
Turn count (T): 3T-7T
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 6.3-15.6
Stator/Magnets: 50mm
Max Efficiency: 85%
Weight: 55lbs - HEAVY
Dropout spacing: ~200 mm
NOTE: This motor may not be available with freewheel threading. Might be for motorcycles/scooters only.

- The HubMonster
Cost: $587
Where to buy: Endless-Sphere member: John in CR - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46898&f=31
Nominal: 7,000W(?)
Peak: ?
Voltage: 74v-111v
Torque: ?
Lamination size: ~0.35mm
Turn count (T): ?
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 18.3
Stator/Magnets: ?
Max Efficiency: 94.6%
Weight: ~34lbs
Dropout spacing: 160mm(?)
NOTE: REQUIRES 2 CONTROLLERS

- The Cromotor V3 (Hubzilla):
Cost: $599 (doesn't include shipping)
Where to Buy: http://www.greyborgusa.com/product/the-cromotor/
Nominal: 5,000W
Peak: 10,000W(?)
Voltage: Up to 72v(?)
Torque: ?
Lamination size: ?
Turn count (T): 3T-4T
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 9.3-12.9
Stator/Magnets: 50mm
Max Efficiency: ?
Weight: 24lbs
Dropout spacing: ~150mm

- QS / Quan Shun, 205/50H V3 “Extra Type”:
Cost: $299
Where to Buy: http://www.hs-escooter.com/
Nominal: 3,000W
Peak: 6,000W
Voltage: 48-96v
Torque: 80-150N.m
Lamination size: 0.35mm
Turn count (T): 3T-7T
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 6.3-15.6
Stator/Magnets: 50mm
Max Efficiency: 88%
Weight: 31lbs
Dropout spacing: ~150mm

MXUS 3000W V3 (3k - Turbo) 4T Motor:
Cost: ~$380
Where to Buy: http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com/
Nominal: 3,000W
Peak: 6,000w
Voltage: 48-96v
Torque (Kt): 3T = 0.8Nm/A, 4T = 1.07Nm/A, 5T = 1.34Nm/A, 6T = 1.59Nm/A
Lamination size: 0.35mm
Turn count (T): 3T-6T
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 3T = 11.9 Kv, 4T = 8.9 Kv, 5T = 7.15 Kv, 6T = 6.0 Kv
Stator/Magnets: 45mm
Max Efficiency: 90% Peak
Weight: 20.6lbs
Dropout spacing: 142mm (Standard) or 170mm (Fat Bike Version), or custom is possible.

- Crystalyte The Crown:
Cost: $483-$572
Where to buy: http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/motors.html?p=2
Nominal: 2,000W
Peak: 5,000W
Voltage: 36-96v
Torque: 131N.m
Lamination size: ?
Turn count (T): ?
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 8.8-11.2
Stator/Magnets: 40mm
Max Efficiency: ?
Weight: 19.8lbs
Dropout spacing: 140mm-162mm
Additional Info: Aluminum Rotor and Covers, hall effect + temperature sensor

If some of this information is incorrect or you have information to add, just let me know. This was what I gathered after a few hours of searching.

What I'm really looking for is: Which one of these is actually the most powerful? Or are there better options out there that I aren't listed here?

Everyone seems excited about the qs205, but i aint seen it talked about by any users as yet. 2kg heavier than the cro, will it really be that much more torquey than the cro?

Edited to say, is the 205 really 31lb? That's heavier than i thought.... 14kg

Huhmonster but it's 190mm dropout width

brumbrum said:

Everyone seems excited about the qs205, but i aint seen it talked about by any users as yet. 2kg heavier than the cro, will it really be that much more torquey than the cro?

Edited to say, is the 205 really 31lb? That's heavier than i thought.... 14kg

Click to expand...

Ron (spinningmagnets) wrote about that one on Electricbikes.com: https://www.electricbike.com/large-hot-rod-hubmotors/

2kg heavier because it it has more copper fill I think.

cwah said:

Huhmonster but it's 190mm dropout width

Click to expand...

I can't find a lot of information on the "hubmonster." Is there another name for it?? I'll add it to the list but yeah, 190mm is a little too wide for what I'm looking for.

I also saw another one from QS motors that could handle a continuous 8kW but yeah... they required 200mm spacing. Those are meant more for motorcycles I think.

DotScott1 said:

brumbrum said:

Everyone seems excited about the qs205, but i aint seen it talked about by any users as yet. 2kg heavier than the cro, will it really be that much more torquey than the cro?

Edited to say, is the 205 really 31lb? That's heavier than i thought.... 14kg

Click to expand...

Ron (spinningmagnets) wrote about that one on Electricbikes.com: https://www.electricbike.com/large-hot-rod-hubmotors/

2kg heavier because it it has more copper fill I think.

Click to expand...

A few forum users have them, but more copper fill or not, i have not seen any back to back testing, or many comments about the performance at all.

If you can pull out your dropouts to 200mm, then the quanshun 273 has a continuous output rating of 8kw. Could be worth a punt?

MXUS 3000W V3 (3K-Turbo) 4T Motor
Cost: ~$380 including shipping to continental USA
Nominal: 3,000W
Peak: 6,000w
Voltage: 48V-96V
Kt: 3T = 0.8Nm/A, 4T = 1.07Nm/A, 5T = 1.34Nm/A, 6T = 1.59Nm/A
Lamination size: 0.35mm
Turn count (T): 3T-6T
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 3T = 11.9 Kv, 4T = 8.9 Kv, 5T = 7.15 Kv, 6T = 6.0 Kv
Stator/Magnets: 45mm
Max Efficiency: 90% Peak
Weight: 20.6lbs
Dropout spacing: 142mm (Standard) or 170mm (Fat Bike Version), or custom is possible.


https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=76109

brumbrum said:

A few forum users have them, but more copper fill or not, i have not seen any back to back testing, or many comments about the performance at all.

If you can pull out your dropouts to 200mm, then the quanshun 273 has a continuous output rating of 8kw. Could be worth a punt?

Click to expand...

Yeah I'll have to do a little searching and see if I can find any reviews on that one.

Heh, yeah that was one of the first motors I came across when searching for "high-power hub motor." 200mm dropout spacing would definitely require custom stays/swingarm though. Also... I don't think you can attach a freewheel to that motor. It looks pretty impressive though. 200N.m torque @_@

teslanv said:

MXUS 3000W V3 (3K-Turbo) 4T Motor
Cost: ~$380 including shipping to continental USA
Nominal: 3,000W
Peak: 6,000w
Voltage: 48V-96V
Kt: 3T = 0.8Nm/A, 4T = 1.07Nm/A, 5T = 1.34Nm/A, 6T = 1.59Nm/A
Lamination size: 0.35mm
Turn count (T): 3T-6T
Konstant per voltage (Kv): 3T = 11.9 Kv, 4T = 8.9 Kv, 5T = 7.15 Kv, 6T = 6.0 Kv
Stator/Magnets: 45mm
Max Efficiency: 90% Peak
Weight: 20.6lbs
Dropout spacing: 142mm (Standard) or 170mm (Fat Bike Version), or custom is possible.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=76109

Click to expand...

Awesome! Thanks for the info and link on that!

cwah said:

Huhmonster but it's 190mm dropout width

Click to expand...

I fit mine into 150mm dropouts with room to spare, and trimmed it to under 14kg, so less than an X540x. In terms of power potential it laughs at the motors listed above, since it can handle as much or more from each of the 2 controllers required as they can handle in total. The driving factors of It's far greater efficiency are what make it capable of handling so much higher power and speed, and that means not only does battery pack take your farther, but while lesser motors have to pull over to the side to cool off a HubMonstered ebike just keeps on going.

It still amazes me how people are willing to do so many mods to motors and bikes, yet almost no one takes on the easier mods to do, which are bike and/or motor mods to get a motor to fit.

All of those 'power handling' figures are practically meaningless. It depends completely on the (torque/speed) operating point of the motor. Even the largest of these hubs cannot handle 3kW into a locked rotor for more than a few seconds, while all of them would happily produce 10 kW at the right speed.

Short term power handling derives primarily from torque production efficiency (aka the Motor Constant km, a measure of I^2R losses per unit torque) and thermal mass (plus thermal conductivity in the long term).

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75059&hilit=qs+motor+jmz&start=25#p1134094

The QS 205 currently has the best copper fill and stator mass available (except Hubmonster, John will tell you all you need to know about that!). The new Cromotor v4 I believe is a modified QS V3? The next tier above that would be the QS 273.

The best way to lower your torque-induced losses is to require less torque for the same acceleration, which can be achieved with smaller wheels. 17" moto rims are a good choice for the street, while I would probably stick with 19" for offroad. With a smaller wheel, for the same power delivery to the road, the motor will be spinning faster while delivering less torque. This places it in a higher-efficiency operating region.

John in CR said:

cwah said:

Huhmonster but it's 190mm dropout width

Click to expand...

I fit mine into 150mm dropouts with room to spare, and trimmed it to under 14kg, so less than an X540x. In terms of power potential it laughs at the motors listed above, since it can handle as much or more from each of the 2 controllers required as they can handle in total. The driving factors of It's far greater efficiency are what make it capable of handling so much higher power and speed, and that means not only does battery pack take your farther, but while lesser motors have to pull over to the side to cool off a HubMonstered ebike just keeps on going.

It still amazes me how people are willing to do so many mods to motors and bikes, yet almost no one takes on the easier mods to do, which are bike and/or motor mods to get a motor to fit.

Click to expand...

What extra is needed to fit in a 150mm dropout?

John in CR said:

I fit mine into 150mm dropouts with room to spare, and trimmed it to under 14kg, so less than an X540x. In terms of power potential it laughs at the motors listed above, since it can handle as much or more from each of the 2 controllers required as they can handle in total. The driving factors of It's far greater efficiency are what make it capable of handling so much higher power and speed, and that means not only does battery pack take your farther, but while lesser motors have to pull over to the side to cool off a HubMonstered ebike just keeps on going.

It still amazes me how people are willing to do so many mods to motors and bikes, yet almost no one takes on the easier mods to do, which are bike and/or motor mods to get a motor to fit.

Click to expand...

1st: I know this hubmonster motor is a powerful one but... I have never been able to find it for sale... or any information on it at all, really. Is that the actual name of the motor? Is it still manufactured? If so, where can I find info on it?

2nd: Definitely interested in your build! Can you provide some links with info? Custom frame? Custom dropouts? How'd you do it?!

jmz said:

All of those 'power handling' figures are practically meaningless. It depends completely on the (torque/speed) operating point of the motor. Even the largest of these hubs cannot handle 3kW into a locked rotor for more than a few seconds, while all of them would happily produce 10 kW at the right speed.

Short term power handling derives primarily from torque production efficiency (aka the Motor Constant km, a measure of I^2R losses per unit torque) and thermal mass (plus thermal conductivity in the long term).

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75059&hilit=qs+motor+jmz&start=25#p1134094

The QS 205 currently has the best copper fill and stator mass available (except Hubmonster, John will tell you all you need to know about that!). The new Cromotor v4 I believe is a modified QS V3? The next tier above that would be the QS 273.

The best way to lower your torque-induced losses is to require less torque for the same acceleration, which can be achieved with smaller wheels. 17" moto rims are a good choice for the street, while I would probably stick with 19" for offroad. With a smaller wheel, for the same power delivery to the road, the motor will be spinning faster while delivering less torque. This places it in a higher-efficiency operating region.

Click to expand...

Yeah I'll definitely be going for the smaller rims since all I ride on is flat roads and flat, dirt trails. I'm actually doing a lot of research on and deciding which rim I'll be attaching to the motor now.

I agree on the QS 205. It's my top pic so far... though I would like to do more research on these "hubmonsters." It doesn't look like I would even be able to buy one though. Can't find them anywhere. The 8kW QS 273 looks like a beast but it takes 200mm spacing and doesn't seem to fit a freewheel... right? I might be wrong on that but I haven't seen it used on an electric bicycle and at first glance, it doesn't look like it has threads for a freewheel.

150mm-170mm fork ?

Do you mean to say rear drop out spacing ?

What are you putting this motor on ?
Full Suspension ?

I am interested on seeing what rear swing arm, or frame has 150-170mm spacing.

Pictures

>

DotScott1 said:

Hey everyone!

I'm trying to get the most powerful hub motor I can (that will fit inside a 150mm-170mm fork) with an 84v battery that can output 100 Amps continuous (~200Amp bursts). I just want a motor that can handle a lot of watts because I need to keep it closed this time (instead of drilling holes for air circulation) and I don't want to have to worry about it overheating. I'm looking for torque more than I am top speed... love that torque.

Click to expand...

Super hubmotor and front forks don't really match well IMHO.

ScooterMan101 said:

150mm-170mm fork ?

Do you mean to say rear drop out spacing ?

What are you putting this motor on ?
Full Suspension ?

I am interested on seeing what rear swing arm, or frame has 150-170mm spacing.

Pictures

Click to expand...

Sorry, I mean dropout spacing. Thanks for pointing out that mistake. Corrected it. No unfortunately it won't be full suspension as I can't seem to find a rear swingarm (and full suspension frame) that would allow for 150-170mm dropout spacing and still give me plenty of battery space (between the tubes).

liveforphysics said:

Super hubmotor and front forks don't really match well IMHO.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I mean dropout spacing. Thanks for pointing out that mistake. Corrected it.

At first I was trying to get ahold of a farfle swingarm but I've since given up... can't find any. So I'm going to fit one of these into a fat tire bike frame with custom CNC-ed steel dropouts. Possibly on the Mongoose Dolomite, Beast or Hitch... though I'm not sure how sturdy the welds are on those. Still searching. I don't really ride on any rough terrain anyway so hopefully that will work.

PS. I'm a big fan of your work! One of your "deathbike" videos on youtube is what got me into electric bikes a couple of years ago

liveforphysics said:

Super hubmotor and front forks don't really match well IMHO.

Click to expand...

Luke I confirm!... On my 2WD the max phase current i can get withut having the front wheel slipping is 200 phase amp on a 24x2.5 tire and no more...

But that is still 200 phase amp more on the bike than a 1WD

I have to say that the modified MXUS3000 3T is pretty impressive with 16kW in at 80-100km/h at the interbike last year on the Las Vegas boulevard the rear motor never felt too hot.

and yes.. i ran it that speed right in the middle of Las Vegas 8) and.. i can say that Troy Rank had grab my seat while he was on roller blades and he sustained the run even at 45mph !

That was totally awsome!

Doc

Doctorbass said:

liveforphysics said:

Super hubmotor and front forks don't really match well IMHO.

Click to expand...

Luke I confirm!... On my 2WD the max phase current i can get withut having the front wheel slipping is 200 phase amp on a 24x2.5 tire and no more...

But that is still 200 phase amp more on the bike than a 1WD

I have to say that the modified MXUS3000 3T is pretty impressive with 16kW in at 80-100km/h at the interbike last year on the Las Vegas boulevard the rear motor never felt too hot.

and yes.. i ran it that speed right in the middle of Las Vegas 8) and.. i can say that Troy Rank had grab my seat while he was on roller blades and he sustained the run even at 45mph !

That was totally awsome!

Doc

Click to expand...

Doc, in what way did you modify your MXUS? Holes for air cooling? 16kW, wow. That's impressive!

DotScott1 said:

John in CR said:

I fit mine into 150mm dropouts with room to spare, and trimmed it to under 14kg, so less than an X540x. In terms of power potential it laughs at the motors listed above, since it can handle as much or more from each of the 2 controllers required as they can handle in total. The driving factors of It's far greater efficiency are what make it capable of handling so much higher power and speed, and that means not only does battery pack take your farther, but while lesser motors have to pull over to the side to cool off a HubMonstered ebike just keeps on going.

It still amazes me how people are willing to do so many mods to motors and bikes, yet almost no one takes on the easier mods to do, which are bike and/or motor mods to get a motor to fit.

Click to expand...

1st: I know this hubmonster motor is a powerful one but... I have never been able to find it for sale... or any information on it at all, really. Is that the actual name of the motor? Is it still manufactured? If so, where can I find info on it?

2nd: Definitely interested in your build! Can you provide some links with info? Custom frame? Custom dropouts? How'd you do it?!

Click to expand...

1. Try google next time. After 9 months of real world testing I started offering them for sale 3 years ago. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46898&f=31 HubMonster and MidMonster have been in production, virtually unchanged, since 2008, but only for installation on the factory's scooters. I developed a direct factory relationship by selling off their stock of discontinued lower power hubbies. In 2012 I was the first to put a 273x50mm hubbie on an ebike, and it was a beast but iron losses were too high, so it wasted too much above 900rpm or so. Then I rolled the dice on whether I could figure out how to run a 6 phase motor with 3 phase controllers and got my first HubMonster (my own registered name btw). With heat problems gone due to the now proven much higher efficiency, and virtually silent startup using cheap controllers instead of the rattletrap noise of common ebike hubbies, I wouldn't consider another motor until something comparable comes out.

2. I started with a ready frame that surprised the hell out of me in terms of build quality and structure, and only modded the dropouts using 5/8" square stock to add proper clamping dropouts to fit the 15.5mm flats on HubMonster's 25mm axle. Most of my effort have been modding the motors to get it narrower, lighter, and fit the 16" moto mag wheel I found locally. I took pics along the way and will start a thread when I get it on the road. I'm in the middle of modding the controllers' heat sink plates to fit the bike and minimize their cases.

John in CR said:

1. Try google next time. After 9 months of real world testing I started offering them for sale 3 years ago. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46898&f=31 HubMonster and MidMonster have been in production, virtually unchanged, since 2008, but only for installation on the factory's scooters. I developed a direct factory relationship by selling off their stock of discontinued lower power hubbies. In 2012 I was the first to put a 273x50mm hubbie on an ebike, and it was a beast but iron losses were too high, so it wasted too much above 900rpm or so. Then I rolled the dice on whether I could figure out how to run a 6 phase motor with 3 phase controllers and got my first HubMonster (my own registered name btw). With heat problems gone due to the now proven much higher efficiency, and virtually silent startup using cheap controllers instead of the rattletrap noise of common ebike hubbies, I wouldn't consider another motor until something comparable comes out.

2. I started with a ready frame that surprised the hell out of me in terms of build quality and structure, and only modded the dropouts using 5/8" square stock to add proper clamping dropouts to fit the 15.5mm flats on HubMonster's 25mm axle. Most of my effort have been modding the motors to get it narrower, lighter, and fit the 16" moto mag wheel I found locally. I took pics along the way and will start a thread when I get it on the road. I'm in the middle of modding the controllers' heat sink plates to fit the bike and minimize their cases.

Click to expand...

Ah you're right. I should have googled a little harder! I'll definitely be adding this one to the list though. And I can't wait to see pictures of your new build! Which "ready frame" did you use? I'm currently still searching for a frame that would work for this. I'm doing a lot of research on your motor now but so far, it looks amazing! Might end up going for one of those if I can find a decent frame to fit it in.

Thanks for the info and link!

liveforphysics said:

Super hubmotor and front forks don't really match well IMHO.

Click to expand...

They do if you're a spectator.

DotScott said:

John in CR said:

1. Try google next time. After 9 months of real world testing I started offering them for sale 3 years ago. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46898&f=31 HubMonster and MidMonster have been in production, virtually unchanged, since 2008, but only for installation on the factory's scooters. I developed a direct factory relationship by selling off their stock of discontinued lower power hubbies. In 2012 I was the first to put a 273x50mm hubbie on an ebike, and it was a beast but iron losses were too high, so it wasted too much above 900rpm or so. Then I rolled the dice on whether I could figure out how to run a 6 phase motor with 3 phase controllers and got my first HubMonster (my own registered name btw). With heat problems gone due to the now proven much higher efficiency, and virtually silent startup using cheap controllers instead of the rattletrap noise of common ebike hubbies, I wouldn't consider another motor until something comparable comes out.

2. I started with a ready frame that surprised the hell out of me in terms of build quality and structure, and only modded the dropouts using 5/8" square stock to add proper clamping dropouts to fit the 15.5mm flats on HubMonster's 25mm axle. Most of my effort have been modding the motors to get it narrower, lighter, and fit the 16" moto mag wheel I found locally. I took pics along the way and will start a thread when I get it on the road. I'm in the middle of modding the controllers' heat sink plates to fit the bike and minimize their cases.

Click to expand...

Ah you're right. I should have googled a little harder! I'll definitely be adding this one to the list though. And I can't wait to see pictures of your new build! Which "ready frame" did you use? I'm currently still searching for a frame that would work for this. I'm doing a lot of research on your motor now but so far, it looks amazing! Might end up going for one of those if I can find a decent frame to fit it in.

Thanks for the info and link!

Click to expand...

For street riding HubMonster has no rival if you want traffic speeds or more as long as you keep the total load (bike+rider) below 190kg or so. If you give me an idea of your expected load, terrain (flat, some hills, mountainous), and the desired top speed, then I can give you a better idea of voltage needs and power potential in stock form. The sky's the limit with my vented cooling approach.

For $25, the Ferro Fluid upgrade can put the MXUS V3 from Kinaye in a whole new category...
http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/12/18/ferrofluids-join-the-ebike-motor-cooling-revolution/

3000W continuous, 6000W peak
142mm drop-out axle shoulders
temp sensor
dual hall-sensor set
$380 bare unspoked hub, from a US distributor (Washington)

http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com/