VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'
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LockH
1 PW
"More major carmakers caught in headlights of VW engine-rigging scandal"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-major-carmakers-caught-headlights-vw-engine-rigging-153209057.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-major-carmakers-caught-headlights-vw-engine-rigging-153209057.html
LockH
1 PW
The fingers
10 TW
Punx0r said:
http://ktla.com/2016/04/26/mitsubishi-weve-been-cheating-on-fuel-tests-for-25-years/
Step right up folks for a free ride on a new carnival ride called The Rosy Spin. Sing along with Fritz: "Ring around the rosy..................................................All Fall Down!"The situation at Mitsubishi Motors just went from bad to much, much worse.
The Japanese automaker admitted Tuesday that it had falsified fuel efficiency tests for the past quarter century, the latest revelation in a scandal that has rocked the company.
Investors responded by pushing Mitsubishi shares down by 10%. The fuel test scandal has now erased half of the company’s market value, and its shares are sitting at a record low.
The automaker said last week that it had used improper fuel economy tests on hundreds of thousands of vehicles, including some sold to Nissan.
But the duration of improper testing disclosed by the company Tuesday was much broader than previously known.
Cars with inflated fuel efficiency ratings were sold only in Japan. Mitsubishi said it would ask lawyers from outside the company to investigate the tests.
Japanese authorities raided Mitsubishi’s offices last week.
The automaker won’t include an earnings forecast when it announces results on Wednesday because of uncertainty over the scandal’s impact, according to a senior company source.
The snafu follows a huge scandal that rocked Volkswagen last year after it admitted rigging diesel engine emissions tests in America and Europe.
Other automakers have been penalized in recent years for putting a rosy spin on fuel economy figures.
Korean carmakers Hyundai and Kia agreed to pay a combined $100 million fine in the U.S. in 2014 for overstating fuel economy estimates for many of their vehicles. They also had to refund customers for the difference in estimated fuel costs.
That same year, Ford said it would compensate owners of about 200,000 U.S. vehicles after discovering the cars’ gas mileage was overstated.
A recent survey of 250 different new diesel cars found 97% failed European emissions standards for NOx:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/diesel-cars-pollution-limits-nox-emissions
Surprisingly, the few that did pass were mostly VW's
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/diesel-cars-pollution-limits-nox-emissions
Surprisingly, the few that did pass were mostly VW's
Hillhater
100 TW
I find it hard to believe that anybody actually believes fuel econonomy figures, performance data, service costs, or any of the manufacturers sales "information" of any car sold these days .
Dont we allknow that its "sales information" (aka..bullsh1t) and ignor it ?
But i find it even worse that so many owners then think its their "right" to demand compensation for something they should have had the common sense to check for themselves if it really is important !
Dont we allknow that its "sales information" (aka..bullsh1t) and ignor it ?
But i find it even worse that so many owners then think its their "right" to demand compensation for something they should have had the common sense to check for themselves if it really is important !
Most of the people I hear talking about getting a new car discuss MPG/etc as if the advertisements were definitely what they would get, and whenever the rare time comes up that the persone they're talking with disputes it, it's dismissed as unimportant because the manufacturers always test and know their vehicles better than anyone else possibly could.
Only a few times has sanity ruled those types of conversations. (I stay out of them because I found no one wants my opinions anyway--I ride a bike so what could I possibly know about cars?).
Only a few times has sanity ruled those types of conversations. (I stay out of them because I found no one wants my opinions anyway--I ride a bike so what could I possibly know about cars?).
Hillhater said:But i find it even worse that so many owners then think its their "right" to demand compensation for something they should have had the common sense to check for themselves if it really is important !
If you're talking about the NOx emissions, how were the users supposed to have known?
In many places fuel economy and emissions levels are specific legal requirements - not just advertising claims. It's reasonable to expect they should be above-board and allow reasonable comparison of product performance across the various manufacturers. If you bought a 220V drier from a respected domestic manufacturer it would be reasonable to believe the declaration attached to that it met the legal electrical safety requirements.
Hillhater
100 TW
Well, i guess i could think that if someone is concerned enough to make a claim after they have been told it was false test results, they might just have been concerned enough to have the vehicle tested themselves before they got swept away with that new car excitement !....but i suspect they didnt actually care too much about little details like that...Punx0r said:
......until they realised there was some easy cash to be made !
deronmoped
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 706
What's the big deal.
That is the way society is, everyone cheats. The Government, industry, the people... They all cheat. The government came into my neighborhood and cheated on raising taxes. We had to go to court to get them stop cheating us on our taxes. Ebike riders come to this forum to see how to build illegal Ebikes. The people with the power are the worst, they make their own rules, which makes their cheating legal.
I'm sure if VW wanted to, they could of done their polluting legally. they just did not buy the right politicians.
That is the way society is, everyone cheats. The Government, industry, the people... They all cheat. The government came into my neighborhood and cheated on raising taxes. We had to go to court to get them stop cheating us on our taxes. Ebike riders come to this forum to see how to build illegal Ebikes. The people with the power are the worst, they make their own rules, which makes their cheating legal.
I'm sure if VW wanted to, they could of done their polluting legally. they just did not buy the right politicians.
liveforphysics
100 TW
deronmoped said:
It seems strange to watch this daily parade of giant SUV driving parents cycling kids to and from school daily. Most freshly started (still in fuel enrichment stages to increase rate of catalytic converter light-off) and spewing visible vapor clouds that include a startling plethora of bio-hazardous compounds.
Why is there an 'acceptable' amount of known carcinogenic, mutagenic solvents to vaporize/atomize into places of high probability for something alive to be breathing?
I'm only left guessing that a widespread ignorance of the medical significance of the situation is still commonplace.
In compassion for all living beings, please share awareness of what we are unnecessarily dosing ourselves and our kids with:
Why do I see loving parents daily spraying impressively potent forms of these materials into random children faces twice daily at the school entrance/exit ritual? Even if you drive an EV, the implications are that depending on how the breeze is and which SUVs are starting and stopping at different times, you and/or your childs life becomes more likely to include otherwise needless cancer experiences, and also a meaningful probabilistic increase at becoming permanently reproductively damaged to have a higher probability rate of genetically defective/damaged offspring.
Even in the meantime before universal EV adoption, at least stagger drop-off and pick-up times at schools to avoid a daily parade of randomly starting from sitting (and therefore 100% likely to be spraying these toxic solvent clouds prior to catalyzer light-off temperatures being achieved), sprayed into an area of high human population density. Maybe have an ICE vehicle drop-off area at far corner of a field (ideally minimizing population density for exposure), and ICE vehicles leave the engine running with known-lit catalytic converter. Parking lot attendants, gas station workers and cab drivers, valet drivers should be provided personal protective gear rated for whatever the real measured exposure levels happen to be. It's not a very good trade to work a gas-station job if each day breathing the air means along with your paycheck you also get a dice-roll for cancer/DNA corruption with each time you breathe the exhaust of a recently started car or catch the scent of gas.
Thank you for your awesome EV work and inspiration here, help me share awareness of the often understated costs (in life and yet-unborn-lives, and if you care about money, $$$ in cancer treatment costs).
On this forum, it is a pleasure to know many of us already have found it's possible to live better than this as a species, while also being more thrilling and magic-carpet-esque amazing.
The Electric Revolution will hit it's critical mass conversion far faster than any economic-driven metric would predict. It will spread at the rate of human awareness the current system involves meaningfully and indiscriminately dosing each-other with compounds that cause multi-generations of needless damage.
What VW violated by such an impressive magnitude is less nasty in many ways, it's more like WW1 era chemical weapon. Myself and a friend had an experience with Nitrogen-Dioxide gas around 8th grade when the very low budget DIY Tesla-coil's spark-gap was opened after an impressive few minutes straight of continuous run-time (normally it would randomly fail somewhere before long). The spark-gap was an old sour-cream tub with a copper wire poking in each side and now it appeared to be fairly uniformly stained a strange yellow. Neither of us realized the container we just pulled the lid off was now filled with NO2 gas generated by the plasma arc of the spark-gap, which is heavy and looks yellowish brown, and both of us bent down to check if it smelled burned... It's an interesting experience, less-unpleasant than my hydrogen-sulfide and hydrogen-fluoride and ozone accidental gas exposures from an overall perspective, but maybe only better than those things.
Yes, HNO3 is also called Nitric Acid, which is exactly the acid it makes everywhere the gas contacts a moist surface. Some moist surfaces of concern may include sinuses, eyeballs, throat/mouth, lungs etc which cause chemical burns and scaring. It doesn't take long to do this damage either, amazingly a 6% lung function impact even in young children tested living near the freeways where diesel's parade about delivering a gas that on contact with any moist surface becomes Nitric Acid of all things.
The electric revolution will become a product of mass nearly universal demand by an aware population, not something that happens when some analyst calculates based on oil prices or whatever graphs of adoption rates in a largely un-aware and un-health-risk-educated population in a world where venues like social media can share new awareness to critical-mass sized groups worldwide in a day.
ICE's relevancy is only social awareness of the health impacts away from a dead technology in everything but rockets and airliners. Cargo boats can all be solar electric (entirely possible, they just travel slower using todays technology), rather than burning "bunker oil", AKA, everything they prohibited from being in the gasoline to go get burned in engines which have no form of emissions controls at all typically.
Hydrogen's only logical place to explore is aircraft and rockets, and even then it's kinda sketchy with it's 1% to 99% air-fuel flammability window, being as virtually no materials can contain hydrogen without continuously leaking it to some extent. It's pointless thermodynamic penalty and total system complexity, risk and upkeep have not and continue not to make sense from the perspective of anyone except someone desperately trying to find a new product to sell you because they know the days of carelessly pumping our tanks with carcinogenic mutagenic solvents to indiscriminately spurt about in clouds of vapor will no longer be welcomed as a cultural practice long before the oil they currently sell you runs out.
Look at the feedback data from drivers who tried even crude first gen EV's, impressively few say they would ever have interest in purchasing a new ICE vehicle for any reason at any price. As more EV's enter neighborhoods, inevitably more people will experience EV's and choose to conclude being a sucker at gas stations to fund random wars and poison themselves and their kids and amazingly even their kids kids (mutagen's are like something that must violate something in the Geneva convention by causing permanent and even potentially fatal damage to innocent yet-unborn un-conceived humans).
Where is the governments human rights issues on randomly fogging deadly compounds along with there citizens to collectively poison themselves and there kids and almost like something out of a SciFi. Only on an oil-company backed system would considder giving future generations genetic defects as OK provided the amounts are below XX amount while operated, yet while on restart, and quite a while on a cold restart it just spews these deadly vapors in a toxic cloud.
Humans will choose to live better as a species when they know they can and choose to make decisions that respect themselves as a species.
John in CR
100 TW
liveforphysics said:
Loved the post btw. This quote nailed it. My experiences talking to regular people is how woefully ignorant they are about EV's. It goes way beyond the too common normal level of ignorance by sending the pointer toward intentionally ignorant with misconceptions leading the charge.
LockH
1 PW
The fingers said:
It's official. Mentioned five times on ES already, and now given as a key word in over a dozen articles in the EUobserver ("an independent online newspaper"):
https://euobserver.com/dieselgate/133601
(My fav still "diseasalgate" though...)
:wink:
LockH
1 PW
LockH said:
Fiat emissions probe: share price falls after German sales ban threat
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/9...are-price-falls-after-german-sales-ban-threat
[C]omments there sorted by "best" includes note "This reeks of geopolitics."
The fingers
10 TW
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...0-fund-clean-air-grants/ar-AAhx78P?li=BBnb7Kz :?
Volkswagen AG will pay owners of its polluting diesel cars up to $7,000, and agree to fund a grant program to offset air pollution, under a $10 billion settlement being negotiated for submission to a federal judge next week, people familiar with the talks said.
VW will provide cash payments worth between $1,000 and $7,000, depending on the vehicle’s age and other factors, to compensate consumers, the people said. All spoke on the condition they not be identified because U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer, who is supervising the settlement discussions, has imposed a gag order.
The environmental remediation program is a key priority for regulators looking to undo the damage of 482,000 diesel cars that emit up to 40 times the permitted amounts of smog-forming nitrogen oxides. VW isn’t expected to be able to repair all of the cars affected to the satisfaction of the EPA, which may result in buybacks or extra payments to the environmental fund.
The Wolfsburg, Germany-based carmaker has admitted that since 2009 it rigged cars to pass U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board emission tests. VW, the EPA, CARB and the Justice Department, and attorneys representing affected consumers are scheduled to present a settlement agreement June 28.
Talks Continuing
The parties reached a tentative agreement in April though discussions on the details are still continuing and may change before being submitted, the people said.
Jeannine Ginivan, a spokeswoman for Volkswagen, and Nick Conger, a spokesman for the EPA, declined to comment.
Car owners will be faced with complex calculations to figure out how much cash they might receive from Volkswagen, two of the people said, which could upset them and harm the carmaker’s relationship with buyers even further.
Regulators are looking at a small but popular diesel-emissions clean-up program as a model for a VW remediation fund, according to the people. The Diesel Emissions Reduction Act grant program is funded by the EPA but partially administered by states with severe diesel pollution. The so-called DERA program funded projects like retrofitting older diesel buses or scrapping and replacing fleets of diesel-powered drayage trucks at ports.
New Fund
The new fund will have an administrator hired by the Justice Department, one person said. States will be allocated funds, but they’ll have to submit projects for approval based on criteria laid out in the court agreement. The fund administrator will audit projects. VW hasn’t had any input into details regarding the remediation plan, the person said.
The cost of the settlement will exceed $10 billion, a person familiar with the matter said. The deal is expected to include penalties for breaking U.S. clean-air laws, money to buy back vehicles, to compensate consumers and to settle class-action claims. The company also faces a Federal Trade Commission action for false advertising.
It’s likely that VW won’t have a final sign-off on its plan to fix the 2-liter cars, the person said. That’s making the plan to compensate for environmental damage more important to regulators, since the diesel-powered cars remain on the road exceeding pollution limits.
Smog Assessment
The amount of money VW will pay into the fund will depend on a technical assessment by the regulators of how much excess smog-forming gases the non-compliant diesel cars emitted going back to 2009. They’ll also estimate how much pollution to expect going forward from consumers who don’t sell their cars back to VW or don’t follow up on the recall repairs.
Lawyers for car owners are due to submit the proposed deal to the San Francisco federal judge overseeing U.S. lawsuits by June 28. The settlement will include options for car owners to sell their vehicles back to Volkswagen or to terminate their leases early.
The case is In Re: Volkswagen “Clean Diesel” Marketing, Sales Practices and Products Liability Litigation, MDL 2672, U.S. District Court, Northern District of California (San Francisco).
Volkswagen AG will pay owners of its polluting diesel cars up to $7,000, and agree to fund a grant program to offset air pollution, under a $10 billion settlement being negotiated for submission to a federal judge next week, people familiar with the talks said.
VW will provide cash payments worth between $1,000 and $7,000, depending on the vehicle’s age and other factors, to compensate consumers, the people said. All spoke on the condition they not be identified because U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer, who is supervising the settlement discussions, has imposed a gag order.
The environmental remediation program is a key priority for regulators looking to undo the damage of 482,000 diesel cars that emit up to 40 times the permitted amounts of smog-forming nitrogen oxides. VW isn’t expected to be able to repair all of the cars affected to the satisfaction of the EPA, which may result in buybacks or extra payments to the environmental fund.
The Wolfsburg, Germany-based carmaker has admitted that since 2009 it rigged cars to pass U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board emission tests. VW, the EPA, CARB and the Justice Department, and attorneys representing affected consumers are scheduled to present a settlement agreement June 28.
Talks Continuing
The parties reached a tentative agreement in April though discussions on the details are still continuing and may change before being submitted, the people said.
Jeannine Ginivan, a spokeswoman for Volkswagen, and Nick Conger, a spokesman for the EPA, declined to comment.
Car owners will be faced with complex calculations to figure out how much cash they might receive from Volkswagen, two of the people said, which could upset them and harm the carmaker’s relationship with buyers even further.
Regulators are looking at a small but popular diesel-emissions clean-up program as a model for a VW remediation fund, according to the people. The Diesel Emissions Reduction Act grant program is funded by the EPA but partially administered by states with severe diesel pollution. The so-called DERA program funded projects like retrofitting older diesel buses or scrapping and replacing fleets of diesel-powered drayage trucks at ports.
New Fund
The new fund will have an administrator hired by the Justice Department, one person said. States will be allocated funds, but they’ll have to submit projects for approval based on criteria laid out in the court agreement. The fund administrator will audit projects. VW hasn’t had any input into details regarding the remediation plan, the person said.
The cost of the settlement will exceed $10 billion, a person familiar with the matter said. The deal is expected to include penalties for breaking U.S. clean-air laws, money to buy back vehicles, to compensate consumers and to settle class-action claims. The company also faces a Federal Trade Commission action for false advertising.
It’s likely that VW won’t have a final sign-off on its plan to fix the 2-liter cars, the person said. That’s making the plan to compensate for environmental damage more important to regulators, since the diesel-powered cars remain on the road exceeding pollution limits.
Smog Assessment
The amount of money VW will pay into the fund will depend on a technical assessment by the regulators of how much excess smog-forming gases the non-compliant diesel cars emitted going back to 2009. They’ll also estimate how much pollution to expect going forward from consumers who don’t sell their cars back to VW or don’t follow up on the recall repairs.
Lawyers for car owners are due to submit the proposed deal to the San Francisco federal judge overseeing U.S. lawsuits by June 28. The settlement will include options for car owners to sell their vehicles back to Volkswagen or to terminate their leases early.
The case is In Re: Volkswagen “Clean Diesel” Marketing, Sales Practices and Products Liability Litigation, MDL 2672, U.S. District Court, Northern District of California (San Francisco).
LockH
1 PW
speedmd
10 MW
15 billion $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.$$ . A good start. Largest settlement in auto history. Lets see if they actually come through and pay out.
LockH
1 PW
"Even After Recall, VW’s Dirty Diesels Won’t Meet Air Standards"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-air-standards?cmpid=yhoo.headline&yptr=yahoo
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-air-standards?cmpid=yhoo.headline&yptr=yahoo
4LivesPerGallon
1 kW
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 305
The fingers said:Punx0r said:
http://ktla.com/2016/04/26/mitsubishi-weve-been-cheating-on-fuel-tests-for-25-years/
The situation at Mitsubishi Motors just went from bad to much, much worse.
The Japanese automaker admitted Tuesday that it had falsified fuel efficiency tests for the past quarter century, the latest revelation in a scandal that has rocked the company.
Investors responded by pushing Mitsubishi shares down by 10%. The fuel test scandal has now erased half of the company’s market value, and its shares are sitting at a record low.
The automaker said last week that it had used improper fuel economy tests on hundreds of thousands of vehicles, including some sold to Nissan.
But the duration of improper testing disclosed by the company Tuesday was much broader than previously known.
Cars with inflated fuel efficiency ratings were sold only in Japan. Mitsubishi said it would ask lawyers from outside the company to investigate the tests.
Japanese authorities raided Mitsubishi’s offices last week.
The automaker won’t include an earnings forecast when it announces results on Wednesday because of uncertainty over the scandal’s impact, according to a senior company source.
The snafu follows a huge scandal that rocked Volkswagen last year after it admitted rigging diesel engine emissions tests in America and Europe.
Other automakers have been penalized in recent years for putting a rosy spin on fuel economy figures.
Korean carmakers Hyundai and Kia agreed to pay a combined $100 million fine in the U.S. in 2014 for overstating fuel economy estimates for many of their vehicles. They also had to refund customers for the difference in estimated fuel costs.
That same year, Ford said it would compensate owners of about 200,000 U.S. vehicles after discovering the cars’ gas mileage was overstated.
So, I've talked to several owners of cars named in these articles .. they've never heard of any money coming to them.
Why is that?
The fingers
10 TW
http://www.greenfleetmagazine.com/n...60811&utm_source=Email&utm_medium=Enewsletter Get in line folks. 
Green Fleet Top News
VW Diesel Trust Prioritizes Government Over Commercial Fleets
August 5, 2016
The $2.7 billion trust fund set up under the proposed settlement between Volkswagen and environmental regulators would likely give priority to government fleets over their commercial brethren to eliminate diesel vehicles, according to a leading diesel group.
The Diesel Technology Forum's response was part of comments submitted as part of the Volkswagen Partial Consent Decree and Settlement that's expected to gain final approval by Oct. 18.
"As currently configured, the Volkswagen Partial Consent Decree and Settlement will fail to effectively mitigate the lifetime total emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) prescribed by the court due to a funding scheme that favors less effective and available technologies and approaches when compared to proven and documented benefits of advanced clean diesel technology," said Allen Schaeffer, the forum's executive director.
The partial consent decree released on June 28 outlines the details of $14.7 billion in settlements that include a $2.7-billion Environmental Mitigation Trust to "fully mitigate the total, lifetime excess NOx emissions" from vehicles that violated clean air laws by emitting 40 times the legal limit. Volkswagen used emissions cheat software on 550,000 light-duty VW diesel vehicles.
Under the terms of the trust, funds will be awarded primarily to states and other government entities to reduce diesel-engine use among public fleets. Agencies will apply to a third-party trustee for grants.
"Not that upgrading government fleet vehicles is not important, but the EMT in its current form is even more problematic in its treatment of government over private fleets, offering greater access to more dollars for government fleets over private fleets, and offering higher funding levels for investments in boutique fuels and technologies rather than mitigating NOx emissions," Schaeffer said. "Since government vehicles typically travel far fewer miles than private fleets, this in turn means that even fewer clean air benefits will be generated than from private fleets using newer technology."
The automaker agreed to the settlement with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) nine months after the cheat software was first discovered.
Get in line folks. Green Fleet Top News
VW Diesel Trust Prioritizes Government Over Commercial Fleets
August 5, 2016
The $2.7 billion trust fund set up under the proposed settlement between Volkswagen and environmental regulators would likely give priority to government fleets over their commercial brethren to eliminate diesel vehicles, according to a leading diesel group.
The Diesel Technology Forum's response was part of comments submitted as part of the Volkswagen Partial Consent Decree and Settlement that's expected to gain final approval by Oct. 18.
"As currently configured, the Volkswagen Partial Consent Decree and Settlement will fail to effectively mitigate the lifetime total emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) prescribed by the court due to a funding scheme that favors less effective and available technologies and approaches when compared to proven and documented benefits of advanced clean diesel technology," said Allen Schaeffer, the forum's executive director.
The partial consent decree released on June 28 outlines the details of $14.7 billion in settlements that include a $2.7-billion Environmental Mitigation Trust to "fully mitigate the total, lifetime excess NOx emissions" from vehicles that violated clean air laws by emitting 40 times the legal limit. Volkswagen used emissions cheat software on 550,000 light-duty VW diesel vehicles.
Under the terms of the trust, funds will be awarded primarily to states and other government entities to reduce diesel-engine use among public fleets. Agencies will apply to a third-party trustee for grants.
"Not that upgrading government fleet vehicles is not important, but the EMT in its current form is even more problematic in its treatment of government over private fleets, offering greater access to more dollars for government fleets over private fleets, and offering higher funding levels for investments in boutique fuels and technologies rather than mitigating NOx emissions," Schaeffer said. "Since government vehicles typically travel far fewer miles than private fleets, this in turn means that even fewer clean air benefits will be generated than from private fleets using newer technology."
The automaker agreed to the settlement with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) nine months after the cheat software was first discovered.
john*thomas
1 mW
Hillhater said:I find it hard to believe that anybody actually believes fuel econonomy figures, performance data, service costs, or any of the manufacturers sales "information" of any car sold these days .
Dont we allknow that its "sales information" (aka..bullsh1t) and ignor it ?
But i find it even worse that so many owners then think its their "right" to demand compensation for something they should have had the common sense to check for themselves if it really is important !
I have a 2012 VW JSW TDI. It's been a great car. Almost 80,000 miles and I've done nothing to it. One of the best driving cars I've ever owned. I'd still drive it but with what they are offering, I''m selling. I didn't file any lawsuits but if they want to pay me far more than it's worth, well, I'm not going to turn it down.
I should be able to buy a similar equipped brand new gas version for what I'm going to get. I don't expect i will like it quite as much but.........whatever.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Internal combustion is positioned about like VHS tapes and DVD's right now.
There are enough suckers today for it to continue to be an industry, but the writings on the wall for it's rapid and long over-due obsolescence in world of consumers awakening to the idea that the mass poisoning of the single atmosphere life-support system is not a good idea.
There are enough suckers today for it to continue to be an industry, but the writings on the wall for it's rapid and long over-due obsolescence in world of consumers awakening to the idea that the mass poisoning of the single atmosphere life-support system is not a good idea.
Hillhater
100 TW
john*thomas said:
Have VW actually made you a firm, written , offer ?
If so, how much ?...
Or did the offer come with a "Gag" clause ?
But, you would really still consider another VW, despite their behaviour in this and other issues ...( like the crappy DSG gbox, or ludicrus oil consumption, or astronomical service/ parts costs , etc !)
Without Federal pressure i suspect none of the VW diesel owners would be even getting a reply from VW Customer service departments.
There are much better quality and value products on the market than VW.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Hillhater said:
Every MFG has random quality issues, but some definitely have more than other. I dated a girl a long time ago who's turbo oil seal on her brand new turbo Beatle failed on the drive home from picking it up new, rapidly puked all it's oil out and seized the engine just a few miles from her house. A few months later the same cars turbo charge pipe coupler on her replacement engine split open randomly, which she also didn't notice until commenting that her last few tanks of fuel were in the teens MPG and I drove it and noticed it had no boost...
I can only imagine the quantities and varieties if Benzene compounds it would be spraying in that state.
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