Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
juanfeli   100 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by juanfeli » Sep 21 2016 3:38am

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Sep 21 2016 3:59am

ABritInNY, how much ff did you use?

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ABritInNY   100 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by ABritInNY » Sep 22 2016 1:18am

Allex wrote:ABritInNY, how much ff did you use?
I used the recommended 5ml and saved the other half. When I put it back on, I had the wheel in the stand and was checking it for smooth rotation and good caliper clearance, but although I kept seeing it clear of anything rubbing I nevertheless could feel a small drag as it it were! It really kind of bugged me for about 15 minutes. I was checking and re checking and finding nothing? It was then I sheepishly remembered that FF has some drag to it :oops: you can barely feel it though when riding, and even less so when the hub gets warm. Bonus is I haven't been able to overheat it yet (or @least I hope so since my onboard therm is apparently not CA compatible :(
EEB frame w/ 1500w Leafmotor 4t winding,
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[Fusion 48v AGM (4x 12v 15ah) 1000w nom DD rear hub, 50a max ESC, 21sp FS Genesis overkill 650b conversion]

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 22 2016 1:53am

If there is a tiny amount of "drag", then you can be assured you have installed the minimum amount of FF necessary to connect the hot stator to the rim and side-plates...

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Allex » Sep 22 2016 2:03am

It is hard to feel any difference in drag on hub motor while adding FF in general because there is a noticeable amount in drag even without FF.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Sep 22 2016 10:17am

Well, that is not a shock to me for a 4T on 76V and a 14mm wide axle. I ran my 4T at that voltage for 40 miles, with a very low phase amp to battery amp ratio ( to limit initial torque ) and got away with it, but have ran 46v for a long time.

Remember that this is a 1500w rated motor.. at that power level, you are delivering a lot more power through the axle than it was designed for.. i would guess that 14mm is just not adequate for that job.. you are asking that axle to handle over 100ft-lbs of torque from a stall at that voltage if you're pushing more than 80 amps.

This is kinda like the MAC motor! In that a MAC can respond to and deliver a good fraction of 4kW for a bit, but say goodbye to your clutch and gears!

I'd say your next move would be a MXUS 3kW turbo.. it has 16mm dropouts and should handle that kind of power better anyway.
ABritInNY wrote:
20160828_192312__1472449116_80900.jpg
OK guys, we'll I bought myself a 4t leaf last autumn and used it on my EEB build. Less than 500 miles and catastrophic failure of the axle occurred!
What the drive side looks like after removing it off the bike...scary...
20160828_173625__1472449212_69851.jpg
The piece of broken axle and bolt still screwed on, right after fishing it out of the street.
Funny thing is, I emailed leaf about it and the main guy Peter, (incidentally the same guy that took my order and promised great customer service!) Claims that in over 100,000 sold motors he's never HEARD OR SEEN ANY type of axle failure lol... obviously I pointed him in the direction of ES and the many reported incident, instead of calling him out for the liar we both knew he was!. Instead I told him of the 16mm upgrades some manufacturers have gone with to avoid it happening more BUT after that last denial email no further reply :(
Leaf was good while working but it is possible that the axles are not as strong as you may think.
For me it's possible that high regen of my new sine wave ESC caused it? but whatever the issue was, I'd advise a Lil extra caution, and to examine the dropouts @least once a month to make sure there is no play @all and that the lug bolts are tightly secured and pinch bolts on TA's too, so that they can't cause any tiny vibrations and shear the axle.
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Kodin   1 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Kodin » Sep 24 2016 3:41pm

ABritInNY

For what it's worth, I'm confident in my tooling now to be able to cut a new axle. If you manage to snap another one, let me know. I have a "stock" shaft for reference, though it's designed for the larger (undriven) side cover with round brake rotor mount. Upside is it's thicker and uses a larger bearing, downside is you need the correct side cover. Just curious, how much would you want to sell your old stator for?

Left: Hexagonal side cover
Right: Round side cover (Uses larger bearing and supports larger shaft diameter)
Image
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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Wheazel » Oct 05 2016 8:36am

My leafmotor did serve me very well so far. It sat on the cargobike for maybe 6000km, but I replaced the entire wheel with a mxus3k wheel when spokes broke and the rim started to crack from the spoke tension. Bad combo of too thick spokes for the rim. So now I have this motor leftover, wonder what I should build with it...

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 05 2016 5:47pm

My '1500W' Leaf motor came alive the other day...at 7.8KW :mrgreen:
Image
Image

albeit briefly...
Image

A new controller is going to be ordered, but the Leaf motor took it in it's stride. It did definitely get hot...fast, but as long as you watch temps, and cool well you can get away with it. :D

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 06 2016 4:15am

I believe the Leaf is the one hubmotor that will benefit the most from ferro-fluid + motor-rim fins. The Edge 1500W has the aluminum stator-support as a heat sponge, but it is heavier than the Leafbike.

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Wheazel » Oct 06 2016 8:16am

Cowardlyduck wrote:My '1500W' Leaf motor came alive the other day...at 7.8KW :mrgreen:
Cheers
:) almost 50Wh/km. You are up to 1/4 of electric car consumption.

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speedmd   100 MW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by speedmd » Oct 06 2016 10:42am

hubmotor that will benefit the most from ferro-fluid + motor-rim fins
Saw some heat sink extrusion profiles that may be perfect for this last week. What width will the motors center fit. Spoke flange to spoke flange minus the corner radius?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Baron » Oct 06 2016 2:38pm

speedmd wrote:
hubmotor that will benefit the most from ferro-fluid + motor-rim fins
Saw some heat sink extrusion profiles that may be perfect for this last week. What width will the motors center fit. Spoke flange to spoke flange minus the corner radius?
I believe he was talking about this https://hubsink.com/
spinningmagnets wrote:I believe the Leaf is the one hubmotor that will benefit the most from ferro-fluid + motor-rim fins. The Edge 1500W has the aluminum stator-support as a heat sponge, but it is heavier than the Leafbike.
Do you know how much heavier?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by speedmd » Oct 06 2016 2:41pm

I am thinking a one pc extrusion to wrap the entire motor. Should work for various diameters once cut to length.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by pomah » Oct 22 2016 5:10pm

Hey guys

I'm running today a 500w falco rear motor setup, running at 48V and 16amp, the motor gets overhead after around 10k or 20 min commute, I'm mostly powering it at max, so 16 amps.

I'm now looking for something that will handle that load better and also give me some more tourque. I think I will be moving to the leafmotor and a phaserunner to program it as I want. I run my bike mostly as a moped,with a throttle and I like it that way so no advanced control is needed.

The question is this, do I need the 1500W motor or could I settle for the 1000W, maybe even with splines? Why I ask is because I want to use my 8 speed cassette setup that I have now, so using the 1000W I can mount that straight on, but going for the 1500W it is not even sure if I can fit a 7 speed, right?

I was thinking of limiting the leaf motor at 25 amps, I dont need much more power then that, so the 1000W would be above it's spec, but the 1500 would be well under, as far as I could understand from this thread.

Any suggestions or thoughts about this?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 22 2016 7:34pm

Baron, The Edge hubmotor is 16.8 lbs / 7.6 kg with no spokes or rim, I've seen published weights for the Leafbike with spokes and rim, but I don't remember the weight without.

Image

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 22 2016 7:41pm

spinningmagnets wrote:Baron, The Edge hubmotor is 16.8 lbs / 7.6 kg with no spokes or rim, I've seen published weights for the Leafbike with spokes and rim, but I don't remember the weight without.
Image

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Racer_X   1 kW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Racer_X » Oct 23 2016 6:12am

Get the 1000w motor if you are going to run 25 amps. 1500w hubmotors need 40+ amps controllers to be happy.
pomah wrote:The question is this, do I need the 1500W motor or could I settle for the 1000W, maybe even with splines? Why I ask is because I want to use my 8 speed cassette setup that I have now, so using the 1000W I can mount that straight on, but going for the 1500W it is not even sure if I can fit a 7 speed, right?

I was thinking of limiting the leaf motor at 25 amps, I dont need much more power then that, so the 1000W would be above it's spec, but the 1500 would be well under, as far as I could understand from this thread.
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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Oct 23 2016 6:39am

Racer_X wrote:Get the 1000w motor if you are going to run 25 amps. 1500w hubmotors need 40+ amps controllers to be happy.
Go look at the dyno graph for the default 4T winding. You'll find it near the first page.
This motor hits peak efficiency at 30mph, or 48v ~21A. Just around 90% efficient at the 1000w mark.
So actually, it's a perfect application... :)

You would want to use the 6T motor in a 26" wheel with 48v to get close to this exact point, because the default 4T winding would be a gutless wonder on a 25A controller.

But therein lies the question.. is it reasonable to buy a 16lb motor and only use half of it's capabilities? you get great efficiency... but for that power level, you could also use a 10lb. MAC/BMC motor and see maybe ~83% efficiency instead.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by pomah » Oct 23 2016 4:50pm

neptronix wrote:
Racer_X wrote:Get the 1000w motor if you are going to run 25 amps. 1500w hubmotors need 40+ amps controllers to be happy.
Go look at the dyno graph for the default 4T winding. You'll find it near the first page.
This motor hits peak efficiency at 30mph, or 48v ~21A. Just around 90% efficient at the 1000w mark.
So actually, it's a perfect application... :)

You would want to use the 6T motor in a 26" wheel with 48v to get close to this exact point, because the default 4T winding would be a gutless wonder on a 25A controller.

But therein lies the question.. is it reasonable to buy a 16lb motor and only use half of it's capabilities? you get great efficiency... but for that power level, you could also use a 10lb. MAC/BMC motor and see maybe ~83% efficiency instead.
Well I will lace it into a 700c rim due since that is the bike I have atm. I know that will not give me any good torque values but I'm not ready to switch frames just yet.

How does one order different windings of the leafmotor from their website? Does anyone have the 1000W motor with their splines, is the splines solution any good?

I was looking at the q100, but as far as I have read they dont do well over 1000W, is the mac any different? As it is now, my commute is 15 min at 800w, the total commute is 20 min, and sometimes I want to travel to the city center, so that would be a 30 min ride with 20-25 min at 800W. I have tried running my falco at 20 amps but it just overheats to fast and goes down in 10A mode....

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Oct 24 2016 8:48am

pomah wrote:
I was looking at the q100, but as far as I have read they dont do well over 1000W, is the mac any different? As it is now, my commute is 15 min at 800w, the total commute is 20 min, and sometimes I want to travel to the city center, so that would be a 30 min ride with 20-25 min at 800W. I have tried running my falco at 20 amps but it just overheats to fast and goes down in 10A mode....
the MAC does easy 1500W and 2000W peak (the internal freewheel clutch probabaly will be the limit).

pros of the MAC:
it will have much better torque efficiency (especially when climbing hills in large 700c wheel)
it weights less than 2/3 of the leaf and even better when compared with the EDGE
newest version comes with a spline cassette and new housing (IIRC it still has M14 axle while the leaf has only 12mm on this side).
no drag when only pedalling

the disadvantage of the MAC:
you cannot use regen
more parts which could fail (clutch, gears)
more noise
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Oct 28 2016 11:39pm

What is the hub diameter of the Leaf 1500W motor?
Well the second Leaf site had the info..... 243mm and ~7.8kg
That motors diameter is wider then the MXUS 3KW motor @ 231mm 20.5lbs = 9.3kg.



What is the diameter of the 1000W motor?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by fussler » Nov 17 2016 2:10pm

<br><br>

HELP!


So I just went and bought a "Leafmotor 1500W" and one C7240-GR controller.
Sadly, I can not manage to figure out what setting I should be doing inside CA3 setup.

Can someone point me some advice.
I am an ambitious noob

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Racer_X » Nov 17 2016 4:44pm

Have you tried to contact Grin Technologies customer service? They are usually really good at trouble shooting these types of problems.
fussler wrote: So I just went and bought a "Leafmotor 1500W" and one C7240-GR controller.
Sadly, I can not manage to figure out what setting I should be doing inside CA3 setup.Can someone point me some advice.
I am an ambitious noob
Cannondale F8 MTB, 9c 9x7, Regen,ThreeSpeed Cruise. with torque plates. 12s3p or 18s2p depending on mood.Maxxis Holy Roller in the summer and Schwalbe Ice Spiker in winter.
Backup bike Schwinn Heavy Duti Beach Cruiser, 9c 9x7 front Regen,ThreeSpeed Cruise. with clamping dropouts, Maxxis Holy Roller in the summer and Schwalbe Ice Spiker in winter.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by fussler » Nov 18 2016 2:57pm

Racer_X wrote:Have you tried to contact Grin Technologies customer service? They are usually really good at trouble shooting these types of problems.
fussler wrote: So I just went and bought a "Leafmotor 1500W" and one C7240-GR controller.
Sadly, I can not manage to figure out what setting I should be doing inside CA3 setup.Can someone point me some advice.
I am an ambitious noob

thanks, will try this

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