MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

[teslanv]

MXUS sent me some info on a new motor they are going to be building, model number "XF5K"

It is a 55mm wide magnet design, which is 5mm wider than either the QS 205 or the Cromotor.

They rate it at "5000W"

Here are the specifications we know so far:

Stator Material: Unknown
# magnets/Pole Pairs: 32 magnets & 36 tooth stator design.
Magnet Height: 55mm
Standard Winding: 33x3T
Kv: 13.47 (970 RPM at 72V, 4A unloaded)
Rated Max. Torque: 110 Nm
Drop-out Width: 150mm, 220mm wide axle, overall. M16 X 1.5 Threading, with 10mm flats.
Weight: 13 Kilograms.
Single-Speed freewheel, M35x1 Threads.
Phase wires: 6mm2 (about 9 AWG)
Dual sets of hall sensors & KTY83/110 temperature sensors
Left side cover accepts disc brake rotors.

Stay tuned. More information to come!

[spinningmagnets]

Well done. Good to see this...more options are always a good thing.

[cwah]

13kg is almost twice the weight of the mxus v3!

[teslanv]

MXUS 3K-Turbo is 9.3 Kg. so the 5K is about 40% heavier.

[Samd]

Thanks Barent, install width noted.
250mm spike dia. Nothing like and extra inch inside the flange up the rear.

[Alex07]

at "5000W"

is that continuous or peak power ? 13kg wow that's a boat anchor heavy...

[teslanv]

at "5000W"

is that continuous or peak power ? 13kg wow that's a boat anchor heavy...

Based on weight alone, I'd say Continuous.

Lots of guys run the MXUS 3K-Turbo motors at over 14KW peak with the Adaptto Max-E.

[teslanv]

Sorry, I couldn't help myself...

[liveforphysics]

If you're going to add mass to your EV, let it be copper/iron/magnet!

[madin88]

thanks for keeping us informed about new stuff from MXUS!
LOL, the amp that goes to 11 is indeed similar to the watt rating bullshit of most motor companies..

250mm outer dia would mean a whole new stator.
on the drawing, the axle looks larger as 16mm, but i could be wrong..
i wonder if the spoke flange is made of aluminum (like the Greenpedel Motors)?

[burner77]

Similar weight to the QS205 V3 …

[neptronix]

Would love to see a dyno sheet if you can get one out of mxus! Really curious to see what peak efficiency looks like on such a wide stator. This might be fun on a 50mph top speed motorcycle if a thicker axled version is available.

[Rix]

Just what my Alpha needs

Stator Material: Unknown
# magnets/Pole Pairs: 32 magnets & 36 tooth stator design.
Magnet Height: 55mm
Standard Winding: 33x3T
Kv: 13.47 (970 RPM at 72V, 4A unloaded)
Rated Max. Torque: 110 Nm
Drop-out Width: 150mm, 220mm wide axle, overall. M16 X 1.5 Threading, with 10mm flats.
Weight: 13 Kilograms.
Single-Speed freewheel, M35x1 Threads.
Phase wires: 6mm2 (about 9 AWG)
Dual sets of hall sensors & KTY83/110 temperature sensors
Left side cover accepts disc brake rotors.

With that KV rating, this would be an excellent 12S to 16S motor, bring on the amps!

Edit Still lighter than a 54xx.

[litespeed]

What bothers me is the itty bitty phase wires. The 3000 watt QS 205 V3 has 10mm and this new 5000 watt 55mm MXUS has 6mm? Basically a 7 gauge wire for the QS and an 9 gauge for the MXUS. That seems to always be the downside of MXUS. Now I know that a wider stator will make more torque/power but at the end of the day under sized wires is just that, undersized. Specially or should I say specifically for this crowd here of over volting & over amping abusing what ever they can with too many electrons being stuffed in things they don't belong in! I do however love to see it and recommend it on a daily basis. Nothing better than a "watch this" moment.

When you look at the 4000 watt QS273 Ebike motor it has 16mm sq wires which is about 5 gauge.....good gawd!

I'm not saying this isn't awesome but it looks like inflated "horsepower" wars and consumer mass confusion.

Tom

[teslanv]

What bothers me is the itty bitty phase wires. The 3000 watt QS 205 V3 has 10mm and this new 5000 watt 55mm MXUS has 6mm? Basically a 7 gauge wire for the QS and an 9 gauge for the MXUS. That seems to always be the downside of MXUS. Now I know that a wider stator will make more torque/power but at the end of the day under sized wires is just that, undersized. Specially or should I say specifically for this crowd here of over volting & over amping abusing what ever they can with too many electrons being stuffed in things they don't belong in! I do however love to see it and recommend it on a daily basis. Nothing better than a "watch this" moment.

When you look at the 4000 watt QS273 Ebike motor it has 16mm sq wires which is about 5 gauge.....good gawd!

I'm not saying this isn't awesome but it looks like inflated "horsepower" wars and consumer mass confusion.

Tom

With a 33X3T winding, the total cross-sectional area of the motor's windings is 6.47mm2 so a 6mm2 phase wire size is slightly undersized. Put in other words, the phase wires will get hotter than the windings.

[madin88]

With a 33X3T winding, the total cross-sectional area of the motor's windings is 6.47mm2 so a 6mm2 phase wire size is slightly undersized. Put in other words, the phase wires will get hotter than the windings.

In real world, the phase wires wouldn't even be hot to touch when the windings already turned into plasma. The phases wires normally will give off many times more heat compared to the coils.
What i don't like is the voltage drop and the involved decrease in "torque stiffness". For 5T or higher turn winding it would be OK.

Is it 205mm stator now or, wider?
From the 225mm OD of the back iron it might be the case, but the large 265mm outermost dia is a bit strange..

[Samd]

Madin i am interested in that. This has puzzled me before.

Why not match phase wire cross section to windings? Why would their resistance be higher?

Seems to be two schools of thought here.

7kw sine wave infineon at 22s i to my v2 mxus and the outside cables never get painful to touch (65c external)


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[teslanv]

Madin i am interested in that. This has puzzled me before.

Why not match phase wire cross section to windings? Why would their resistance be higher?

Seems to be two schools of thought here.

7kw sine wave infineon at 22s i to my v2 mxus and the outside cables never get painful to touch (65c external)

If I understand madin's comments, it's that the phase wires are able to shed heat better than the windings, assumedly because they more open to outside air, and not contained inside the motor housing.

I can appreciate wanting to minimize the resistance in all aspects of motor wiring, from Battery to controller and from controller to motor. I guess mostly, it comes down to how hard you want to push the motor. I find that my riding habits do not necessitate having massive wiring, since I am fairly easy on the throttle.

Whereas on our racing bicycles, we go overboard on all of this, even to the extent that we strategize on how best to configure the high C-rate LiPo packs and bus-bar to minimize voltage sag under 250A+ Loads.

[spinningmagnets]

There's nothing wrong with the QS 273, but if this motor and the 273 are both limited by the same power levels, I'd rather have this one, due to longer spokes. Also, I'm not going to say this motor is "stealthy", bit it is certainly smaller in diameter over the 273. Having a wider stator is a "less obvious" way to add copper mass.

A squirt of Ferro Fluid wouldn't hurt it, I suppose.

[markz]

This is all Very Very Very interesting.
I wonder when it will be released and what the wholesale price will be.

Perhaps they will come out with a 5K-Turbo with curved magnets, if that even makes a difference. I doubt it does. Is there any proof that the curved magnets make a difference. I guess the only way to know is to send Justin a sample. Well I hope the 5K Turbo is not much more $ then the their 3kw motor. I'd buy one from them again.

Off-Topic - They got a BBS03 on there, but realize they got some massive overlaps on their products, meaning they got countless products that I believe are the same. I keep seeing 250W, 350W, 400W "mid drive" 8 fun over and over again. The highest one I have seen so far one 1000W and one 750W. Oh I just noticed in the title of one it states 1000W but in the details its Wattage: 301 - 400w frock
I always had a hard time navigating their website. I guess I will sling them an email and enquire.

[Quokka]

Subd

[Rix]

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MXUS sent me some info on a new motor they are going to be building, model number "XF5K"

It is a 55mm wide magnet design, which is 5mm wider than either the QS 205 or the Cromotor.

They rate it at "5000W"

Here are the specifications we know so far:

Stator Material: Unknown
# magnets/Pole Pairs: 32 magnets & 36 tooth stator design.
Magnet Height: 55mm
Standard Winding: 33x3T
Kv: 13.47 (970 RPM at 72V, 4A unloaded)
Rated Max. Torque: 110 Nm
Drop-out Width: 150mm, 220mm wide axle, overall. M16 X 1.5 Threading, with 10mm flats.
Weight: 13 Kilograms.
Single-Speed freewheel, M35x1 Threads.
Phase wires: 6mm2 (about 9 AWG)
Dual sets of hall sensors & KTY83/110 temperature sensors
Left side cover accepts disc brake rotors.

Stay tuned. More information to come!

I am wondering with the KV rating as high as it is if this motor would benefit from say a 25x4T winding? I am guessing that would bring the KV down to around the "10ish" range .

[teslanv]

I am wondering with the KV rating as high as it is if this motor would benefit from say a 25x4T winding? I am guessing that would bring the KV down to around the "10ish" range .

I don't see why not. A 25X4T winding would likely get the Kv down to around 10, if my math is good.

Here are my mathematical estimates of Winding to Kv for all windings of the 5K motor design:

33X3T = 13.47 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 198A
25X4T = 10.07 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 150A
20X5T = 8.05 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 120A
16X6T = 6.71 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 96A

[Rix]

I am wondering with the KV rating as high as it is if this motor would benefit from say a 25x4T winding? I am guessing that would bring the KV down to around the "10ish" range .

I don't see why not. A 25X4T winding would likely get the Kv down to around 10, if my math is good.

Here are my mathematical estimates of Winding to Kv for all windings of the 5K motor design:

33X3T = 13.47 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 198A
25X4T = 10.07 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 150A
20X5T = 8.05 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 120A
16X6T = 6.71 Kv, Max continuous Phase current of 96A

And here is my Spreadsheet / Calculations if anyone is curious.

MXUS 5K Winding simulator.ods

I guess my next question would be: Is Kinaye Motorsports going to be getting these in and if so, when? And do you think I can get a 25x4T wind?

[Samd]

Barent and I have asked for samples and trying to firm up timing. The only one in existence is a CNC sample.

I am hoping everyone has noticed the magnet and spoke radius - it won't be a stealthy unit to hide behind a 203mm brake rotor. Haha!


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