Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Place for dealers to post items for sale.
User avatar
Hyena
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6097
Joined: Aug 13, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Hyena » Nov 16, 2016 6:21 pm

Nice work. Whats the capacity and C rate of those big pouches ?
Not that they're powering submarines (yet :P ) but with the back of the 175A andersons and the edges of the perspex boxes filled with epoxy or silicon I imagine you can get them pretty well sealed for general purpose all weather use ?
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
My build and HD video thread____. My youtube channel____ Hyena Facebook page
My bike is writing cheques my body can't cash...

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Nov 16, 2016 11:04 pm

Hyena wrote:Nice work. Whats the capacity and C rate of those big pouches ?
Not that they're powering submarines (yet :P ) but with the back of the 175A andersons and the edges of the perspex boxes filled with epoxy or silicon I imagine you can get them pretty well sealed for general purpose all weather use ?
These are the same NMC cells you see being flogged on facebook. They come as 5p units which look like a prismatic cell. James needed 6p, so we came up with our own termination. I think they are a 5C continuous, 10C burst cell. 25 Ah pouches BTW.

I reckon you can easily fit this inside a polycarb enclosure and pump said enclosure with silicone grease or some other inert waterproofing agent. Perfect for a jetski battery :)

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Nov 20, 2016 7:33 am

Finished James' pack this weekend. These cells are only good for 3C I think, but for what he plans on doing with them, they'll be just fine (travelling 1700 km on a single charge). If you want to support Jame's record attempt, check out his GoFundMe page here:

https://www.gofundme.com/Coulombmotorsport1
20161119_162700.jpg
20161119_162700.jpg (50.1 KiB) Viewed 2387 times
20161119_162712.jpg
20161119_162712.jpg (62.64 KiB) Viewed 2387 times

bobc
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1001
Joined: Jan 20, 2011 5:08 pm
Location: Knutsford England
Contact:

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by bobc » Nov 25, 2016 5:22 am

Probably "granny sucking eggs" time, but did you check out "clinch nuts" alternative to soldering nuts on the back of the PCBs? Even if you decide you still want to solder these may still be handy because they would stay located while soldering. You can get PCB friendly ones, we've used 'em in decent volume mass production.

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Nov 25, 2016 6:48 am

bobc wrote:Probably "granny sucking eggs" time, but did you check out "clinch nuts" alternative to soldering nuts on the back of the PCBs? Even if you decide you still want to solder these may still be handy because they would stay located while soldering. You can get PCB friendly ones, we've used 'em in decent volume mass production.
Yeah, and the brass nuts are still a bit cheaper. I have devised a means of soldering the brass (or nickel plated steel) nuts to the boards quite quickly, but given the volume I'm working with I'm pretty content with the system for now.

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Dec 03, 2016 7:45 am

Alright guys, I'm adding 4p and 5p to the list of options. So just to recap -

2p, 3p, 4p, 5p, 6p and 10p.

Or 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 and 50 Ah packs. And when I eventually get the high energy density cells in, it will be multiples of about 6.5 Ah.

Now don't go asking for 7p or I might just scream :lol:

ejonesss
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 798
Joined: Aug 31, 2008 4:21 pm

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by ejonesss » Dec 10, 2016 12:41 pm

do you carry the bus bar kits?

i am looking into converting a 6s turnigy lipo to a 1s6p and would need to parallel the cells.
stuff for Even Newer 4 to 24-cell Battery Management System (BMS)
32 lifepo4 cells 16s2p 40138 green cells √
16s2p 40138 based pack built assembled (building electrical equiv to $2000 eonyx system.*

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Dec 10, 2016 7:38 pm

Yep,
I can supply busbar kits. Although if you are unsoldering a 6s pack you might want to check that the tabs are long enough to hole-punch. From memory, some of those packs have the tabs spot-welded directly too.

ejonesss
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 798
Joined: Aug 31, 2008 4:21 pm

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by ejonesss » Dec 12, 2016 12:50 pm

yes i see they did weld the cells together however i can using a dremel cut them apart and even though the tabs are too short it looks like they can be soldered to the pcb stock where the bars bolt to.
stuff for Even Newer 4 to 24-cell Battery Management System (BMS)
32 lifepo4 cells 16s2p 40138 green cells √
16s2p 40138 based pack built assembled (building electrical equiv to $2000 eonyx system.*

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Dec 19, 2016 12:39 am

Cells are in!
20161219_081911.jpg
20161219_081911.jpg (171.77 KiB) Viewed 2139 times
20161219_081953.jpg
20161219_081953.jpg (209.68 KiB) Viewed 2139 times
550 cells, with about 2/3rds spoken for. I still have about 120 or so left, so if you still want a pack let me know.

I will be doing some capacity testing, discharge testing and cycle life testing over the coming weeks.

User avatar
Arlo1
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 8563
Joined: Apr 26, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Nanaimo BC Canada
Contact:

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 19, 2016 12:38 pm

Nice CRX you have there. It would be a shame if someone was to install a Leaf motor in it. ;)
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Dec 19, 2016 7:52 pm

Arlo1 wrote:Nice CRX you have there. It would be a shame if someone was to install a Leaf motor in it. ;)
Yep, would be a terrible shame... :mrgreen:

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Dec 23, 2016 8:29 am

Some people take vacations. I test batteries :D
FEP9050135 mass.jpg
Lighter than expected
FEP9050135 mass.jpg (76.84 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
The shipment came in and the cells were in good condition. Amazingly, they are 8.2 mm thick instead of the requested 9 mm and weigh in at 120 g each. If they check out at 5000 mAh they would store an impressive 154 Wh/kg. Impressive given the high C-rating they come with. The missing 0.8 mm will have to be padded out with cardboard, or for the more thermal-management inclined, aluminium heatsinks :)
2s2p test rig.jpg
Screwkum skookum!
2s2p test rig.jpg (68.91 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
My test rig is a 2s2p kit terminated using the screw terminals. They can take the current almost as good as a soldered pack and are easy to pull apart again.

I started off with a ~1 C discharge test for capacity. Basically a bunch of nichrome wires wound on a peg board. I normally use this load for cycle-testing, but it gives good numbers through the ammeter function on my DMM.
1 C discharge curve.jpg
1 C discharge curve.jpg (28.38 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
This gives a full 10 Ah (2p) and equates to 158 Wh/kg. Winning :)

Next up, a 5.5 C discharge test.

The load has shifted to a coil of galvanised wire plunged in a bucket of water. The loads are around 50 amps, measured with a current clamp.
5 C discharge test.jpg
5 C discharge test.jpg (150.8 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
5 C discharge curve.jpg
5 C discharge curve.jpg (28.34 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
So far so good.

10 C - this is about 100 amps through the test rig. My current clamp is the only tool for the job.
10 C discharge curve.jpg
10 C discharge curve.jpg (28.35 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
So even at 10 C the cells are able to deliver all of the Ah claimed and the sag is at about 3.7 V.

Okay, 20 C - this is a 200 amp continuous load through a 2s2p battery. What kind of load would be appropriate?
20 C discharge load.jpg
Not quite a dead short, but close.
20 C discharge load.jpg (148.54 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
20 C discharge curve.jpg
20 C discharge curve.jpg (26.16 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
Why did it stop at 7 Ah?
I need silicone wire for this.jpg
Yeah, silicone wire would have been better.
I need silicone wire for this.jpg (142.36 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
I think we have hit the limit of continuous testing. For 10 second bursts, we can easily get 400 amps or so, but continuous high drain tests are pretty unusual in the real world.

Still, I'm satisfied these cells are as good as the current 40 C cells I use in Voltron, and they pack more energy per gram than before.

So who wants batteries? :mrgreen:

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Dec 30, 2016 8:02 am

Couple of battery pr0n shots..
Stack O Cells.jpg
Stack O Cells.jpg (153.8 KiB) Viewed 1953 times
Half of a 12s6p pack.jpg
Half of a 12s6p pack.jpg (97.74 KiB) Viewed 1953 times
I tell you what, ordering cells from China is getting better. 550 cells and not a single cell I could reasonably consider below par. I sorted them into piles of <3.90 V and >3.90 V. The less than pile was about 100 cells, and they were only just less than - like the lowest was 3.815 V or something. I'll use these for my own projects and R+D, but they should be perfectly fine for any application.

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Jan 02, 2017 4:51 am

I'm going to put a 12s10p pack together using the left over cells, unless I sell them first. The idea is to build a modular unit of about 2.2 to 2.8 kWh, depending on the energy density of the cell.
12s10p Skp1.jpg
12s10p Skp1.jpg (91.35 KiB) Viewed 1862 times
12s10p Skp2.jpg
12s10p Skp2.jpg (53.51 KiB) Viewed 1862 times
I reckon these would generate some interest in the performance EV scene? Good for over 1000 amps continuous, and weigh about 15 kg.
12s10p 23 kWh.jpg
Or 17 kWh if you used the hi-power cells.
12s10p 23 kWh.jpg (211.44 KiB) Viewed 1862 times
The terminations can be cooled with cross-flow of air during use and recharge. There would be a 3 mm polycarbonate lid which holds the module together, while the packs would connect in series with M8 bolts through the terminal holes.

Hope to put it together in the next month or so, depending on where I can find a cheap CNC router. BCJ have been good to me in the past, but they moved shops and must be paying more rent...

Tomdb
10 W
10 W
Posts: 94
Joined: Apr 03, 2014 7:47 am
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Tomdb » Jan 02, 2017 2:37 pm

What kind of vehicle would you be trying to market these too?
50ah gives you roughly 20 kwh at 345V so quite low for a car conversion.

Would you mind sharing some sizes and rough weights?
Plus what kind of pricing would you be thinking about?

These cells do look promising in terms of a good balance between weight and discharge, 150 wh/kg and 20C is quite impressive. Did you measure temperature during the discharge?

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Jan 02, 2017 6:12 pm

Tomdb wrote:What kind of vehicle would you be trying to market these too?
Any converted electric car, but one with a performance tilt. Most folks opt for LiFePO4 cause its cheaper but comes with limitations. These would be ideal for people willing to build Tesla beaters I'd think.
Tomdb wrote: 50ah gives you roughly 20 kwh at 345V so quite low for a car conversion.

Would you mind sharing some sizes and rough weights?
Plus what kind of pricing would you be thinking about?

These cells do look promising in terms of a good balance between weight and discharge, 150 wh/kg and 20C is quite impressive. Did you measure temperature during the discharge?
Cost price is AUD $16 per cell, depending on the exchange rate. These packs would have 120 cells in them. The enclosures will add about another $100 or so I would hope. Whole package is 15 kg. The more energy dense cells will be a tiny bit heavier, and markedly more expensive. Probably about $26 per cell.

The cells did heat up at 20 C continuous drain (obviously) but they still delivered. We hit the same kind of cells in Voltron at 28 C and they only trip the thermistors at 55'C after 4 sessions on a power track at 35'C.

User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 14608
Joined: Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 02, 2017 6:24 pm

Tomdb wrote: 50ah gives you roughly 20 kwh at 345V so quite low for a car conversion.

These would be the wrong choice for someone making a budget commuter, and perhaps the right choice for someone making a VERY powerful hot rod.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

User avatar
dingoEsride
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1159
Joined: Apr 15, 2010 2:09 am
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by dingoEsride » Jan 03, 2017 2:48 am

Looks the goods, thanks to Chris and LFP and others who push for better battery performance on the way for future transport for the masses
ride like the wind

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Jan 22, 2017 8:40 am

I'm pretty sure you'll see a mad video of a trike with these powering it shortly :D
20170122_134435.jpg
20170122_134435.jpg (168.7 KiB) Viewed 1617 times
The pair of them weigh in at 10.6 kg; 1332 Wh.
20170122_134236.jpg
20170122_134236.jpg (119.08 KiB) Viewed 1617 times
Shipping these off tomorrow. Got a few more to build before month's end, but it's all humming along. The polycarb enclosures are great, and essential if you are going to chuck these inside an ebike frame. Tough as nails!

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 03, 2017 9:49 pm



22s4p battery build in 4 minutes. All holes were pre-punched, all copper was pre-cut. Still took me a good 9 hours!

litespeed
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1289
Joined: Aug 11, 2010 4:42 pm
Location: St. Charles, Missouri

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by litespeed » Feb 04, 2017 12:05 am

That was a super cool build. Thanks for taking the time to make and post it. Excellent work.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

Rube
100 W
100 W
Posts: 220
Joined: Jun 25, 2016 10:18 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rube » Feb 04, 2017 5:59 am

litespeed wrote:That was a super cool build. Thanks for taking the time to make and post it. Excellent work.
Tom
Couldn't agree more, what is the glue/ sealant used? Do you counter sink the bolts in the polypropylene or use a normal M10 or M8 bolt?

User avatar
jonescg
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3505
Joined: Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by jonescg » Feb 04, 2017 7:15 am

The glue was a polyurethane goo which sets quite quickly. It has the same properties as silicone sealant but sticks better. The polycarb enclosure is 4.5 mm and 3 mm thick, so I use countersunk M3 screws. Nothing as big as M10 on this pack.

Rube
100 W
100 W
Posts: 220
Joined: Jun 25, 2016 10:18 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Assembled Hi-Power LiPo battery packs - any interest?

Post by Rube » Feb 04, 2017 7:34 am

Thanks, I read that countersinks increase stress fractures but I'm skeptical because in my build the enclose is under-stressed. I got the idea from you Chris, you know what they say about imitation. :D

Post Reply