Qulbix Raptor 76R Cyclone Build

Actually it was easier than I thought. I thought I would either have to machine it or use a press (swingarm is steel - not aluminum). But in the end I used a 10mm threaded rod, 2 nuts, washers and thrust bearings and just kept expanding it equally on both sides till I ended up about 9mm wider. I did have to spread it quite a bit wider though because it does spring back somewhat. Not elegant, but it worked. See pics:







BTW...lacing a Rohloff into a 19" moto wheel was interesting. In the end I cut my own custom length spokes and threaded them with a Hozan C-700 spoke threading machine (3 times till I got the length exactly right!). I used the custom nipples from Holmes Hobby in the rim (along with washers).

http://holmeshobbies.com/bike-and-moped/spokes/14g-moped-nipple-black.html

Brilliant solution. Thank you for paving the way! I wonder if qulbix can just build you a slightly wider rear from the factory if only little adjustments are needed. Do the spokes and holes on the rohloff line up well? If you have the time can you post your rpm/torque speed figures if you calculates them for the drive? Rohloff posts 130nm max Input torque. Do you think you are close to that limit?

I'm obviously a fan of this build due to my own project.

I love the hub. I have a couple quick observations (somewhat related to each other);

#1 The bike us a bit heavy for the modest power of the cyclone.

#2 The rear rim is WAAYYYYY overkill for the power level you are running. I am using a Motoped rim with 14ga spokes on 26,000 watts without a problem.

Are you running the moto rim for tire choice options? A 24 inch bicycle tire and rim are radically lighter than the moto rim and tire combo you have.

Matt

dtx1 said:

Rohloff posts 130nm max Input torque. Do you think you are close to that limit?

Click to expand...

the Speedhub is made for "human-powers" at least thats what they always claryfiy in their warranty-texts.

Still quite some ebike freaks use the Speedhub, and are sure exceeding the 130NM.
One solution to that is to make a custom shear-pin (built into the speedhub to prevent gear damage) out of other materials like POM,aluminium,.... instead of the Nylon one that is used by Rohloff, cause the internal gears might take more abuse than the standard shear-pin alows.
Sure it will have influence on the gears lifetime !

I also plan to use a speedhub and my input limit will for sure not be the suggested 130NM, specially not cause i wanna use my bike for low geared hill climbing.
very important is that you do not choose the "weakest" gear-combinations of the Rohloff for the hardest jobs to make that work.

Notger

notger said:

dtx1 said:

Rohloff posts 130nm max Input torque. Do you think you are close to that limit?

Click to expand...

the Speedhub is made for "human-powers" at least thats what they always claryfiy in their warranty-texts.

Still quite some ebike freaks use the Speedhub, and are sure exceeding the 130NM.
One solution to that is to make a custom shear-pin (built into the speedhub to prevent gear damage) out of other materials like POM,aluminium,.... instead of the Nylon one that is used by Rohloff, cause the internal gears might take more abuse than the standard shear-pin alows.
Sure it will have influence on the gears lifetime !

I also plan to use a speedhub and my input limit will for sure not be the suggested 130NM, specially not cause i wanna use my bike for low geared hill climbing.
very important is that you do not choose the "weakest" gear-combinations of the Rohloff for the hardest jobs to make that work.

Notger

Click to expand...

I can report the Rohloff will absolutely NOT shift under motor power at all. So I've ordered the Gear Sensor from Luna and will be trying to incorporate that into the setup.

recumpence said:

I'm obviously a fan of this build due to my own project.

I love the hub. I have a couple quick observations (somewhat related to each other);

#1 The bike us a bit heavy for the modest power of the cyclone.

#2 The rear rim is WAAYYYYY overkill for the power level you are running. I am using a Motoped rim with 14ga spokes on 26,000 watts without a problem.

Are you running the moto rim for tire choice options? A 24 inch bicycle tire and rim are radically lighter than the moto rim and tire combo you have.

Matt

Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in Matt! It is pretty heavy, north of 85 lbs right now. This is actually my first e-bike ever (never even rode one until mine was running a week ago)! So I wasn't really looking for a super high power build like you produce. YET. And I'm only running at 52V right now, mostly because that's the most powerful battery Luna had in stock for me at the time. Regarding the rear rim - you are correct, it certainly is heavy! I chose it because I wanted to be close to a 26" bicycle finished diameter (thus 19" rim) and I believe the Motoped is a 24". Also - Motoped continually shows out of stock so I'm not sure I could have gotten one anyway. Also I think they go 36 spokes and the Rohloff XL is only available as 32. I am however using 14ga spokes (with Holmes nipples) as this is the maximum the Rolhoff will accept. Anyway if I'm not happy with the moto rear wheel I may re-lace it into a 26 mountain bike setup. But so far I like the handling of it, and especially the rear braking with the Hope Tech quad piston caliper! You may notice that I designed/fabbed and CNC'd all my own brackets/mounts - so as I gain more experience I may eventually attempt to convert to the Astro like your builds.

tikivic said:

recumpence said:

I'm obviously a fan of this build due to my own project.

I love the hub. I have a couple quick observations (somewhat related to each other);

#1 The bike us a bit heavy for the modest power of the cyclone.

#2 The rear rim is WAAYYYYY overkill for the power level you are running. I am using a Motoped rim with 14ga spokes on 26,000 watts without a problem.

Are you running the moto rim for tire choice options? A 24 inch bicycle tire and rim are radically lighter than the moto rim and tire combo you have.

Matt

Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in Matt! It is pretty heavy, north of 85 lbs right now. This is actually my first e-bike ever (never even rode one until mine was running a week ago)! So I wasn't really looking for a super high power build like you produce. YET. And I'm only running at 52V right now, mostly because that's the most powerful battery Luna had in stock for me at the time. Regarding the rear rim - you are correct, it certainly is heavy! I chose it because I wanted to be close to a 26" bicycle finished diameter (thus 19" rim) and I believe the Motoped is a 24". Also - Motoped continually shows out of stock so I'm not sure I could have gotten one anyway. Also I think they go 36 spokes and the Rohloff XL is only available as 32. I am however using 14ga spokes (with Holmes nipples) as this is the maximum the Rolhoff will accept. Anyway if I'm not happy with the moto rear wheel I may re-lace it into a 26 mountain bike setup. But so far I like the handling of it, and especially the rear braking with the Hope Tech quad piston caliper! You may notice that I designed/fabbed and CNC'd all my own brackets/mounts - so as I gain more experience I may eventually attempt to convert to the Astro like your builds.

Click to expand...

You need to call Motoped directly and ask about a rim. I ended up buying and entire wheel just to obtain the rim. It was $209. I did use the hub too though not on the rear. I bought a fat tire conversion front wheel from Motoped. Is had a standard front hub laced onto their 2.5 inch wide rear rim. I used the rim on the rear of my bike and the hub on the front with a normal 1 inch wide 24 inch front rim.

Do you know offhand if that Motoped rim is 32 spoke or 36?

36 unfortunately

Really great work! well done

would you consider sharing the cnc files? im thinking of a similar set up as well

thanks in advance!

notger said:

dtx1 said:

Rohloff posts 130nm max Input torque. Do you think you are close to that limit?

Click to expand...

the Speedhub is made for "human-powers" at least thats what they always claryfiy in their warranty-texts.

Still quite some ebike freaks use the Speedhub, and are sure exceeding the 130NM.
One solution to that is to make a custom shear-pin (built into the speedhub to prevent gear damage) out of other materials like POM,aluminium,.... instead of the Nylon one that is used by Rohloff, cause the internal gears might take more abuse than the standard shear-pin alows.
Sure it will have influence on the gears lifetime !

I also plan to use a speedhub and my input limit will for sure not be the suggested 130NM, specially not cause i wanna use my bike for low geared hill climbing.
very important is that you do not choose the "weakest" gear-combinations of the Rohloff for the hardest jobs to make that work.

Notger

Click to expand...

Cycle Monkey (West Coast Rohloff Distributer) Will install Aluminum Sheer pins instead of Nylon for you at minimal cost if you are already having the seals replaced. Also any Rohloff hub marked for tandem use will have Aluminum sheer pins instead of Nylon if you wish to buy it off the shelf that way.

Very cool build! I am really glad someone took the plunge and matted a Rohloff to a wheel that can accept MC tires. To me that is the main benefit here, not so much the added strength which Matt stated is overkill, the fact that you won't be replacing bike tires every other ride is the whole reason I am interested in doing this as well.

Additionally Ziva at Qulbix has stated, if you ask nicely, she can have their Swingarm made in 135mm sent out individually or with your frame purchase. Standard Rohloff is 135mm.

> Cycle Monkey (West Coast Rohloff Distributer) Will install Aluminum Sheer pins instead of Nylon for you at minimal cost if you are already having the seals replaced. Also any Rohloff hub marked for tandem use will have Aluminum sheer pins instead of Nylon if you wish to buy it off the shelf that way.


I had heard rumors about this, thank you for that info!

Additionally Ziva at Qulbix has stated, if you ask nicely, she can have their Swingarm made in 135mm sent out individually or with your frame purchase. Standard Rohloff is 135mm.[/quote]


Wow that's good info on the 135! That could solve many problems if one doesn't want a hub motor. Kind of wishing I did this now because with the 170mm hub mated to an 83mm BB my chain line is quite aggressive.

tikivic said:

Hozan C-700 spoke threading machine (3 times till I got the length exactly right!). I used the custom nipples from Holmes Hobby in the rim (along with washers).

Click to expand...

How do you like the Hozan?

It worked great for me! I attached a cordless electric drill to it instead of the crank handle and that really saves some time - but you do have to let the tool cool down about every 5 spokes or so. What I did - was cut the spokes first pass, then tighten the mandrel up a bit and cut a second pass to make the threads a bit deeper. One of the big advantages to the tool is that you can adjust the total length of the threads to make them quite a bit longer than off-the-shelf spokes.

Can you take a picture of the Hozan tool without the head on it, I want to see what the shaft is, most likely its got a flattened side for the set screw. Also if you could/can see what the diameter of the shaft is. Thinking I can save some money without buying the entire $180 tool, I would just buy the head for $50, then find some scrap metal in the warehouse.

Mark-z.....appears it's a 10mm shaft. The cutting head is held on with a set screw and a "dimple" in the shaft. I think the biggest challenge for you making your own rig is holding the spoke at exactly the right position in relation to the cutting head. The Hozan does have some adjustment where the user can move the spoke position as needed (or for different diameter spokes).

interesting thread any updates ?

This is an interesting and rare thread showing Qulbix DIY frame paired with Rohloff Speedhub.
For anyone wanting to replicate this (myself included, thread coming in 1-2 months when parts arrive), I have reviewed this thread and all the Rohloff options, and I believe the exact options shown in this thread are:

1) Qulbix DIY swingarm in 165mm width (which is then manually widened to 170mm)

2) Rohloff Speedhub 500/14, black color, model Nr. 8067 XL TS DB OEM 2
XL = 170mm
TS = threaded spindle (same as on hub motors, 12mm flattened on the sides to 10mm)
DB = for disk brakes
OEM 2 = axle plate / torque arm model "OEM 2" (not "OEM")
Note: "8067 OEM 2" might also be known as "8067Z".

3) The Rohloff Speedhub package includes the following necessary accessories:
- 14-speed twist shifter for handlebar (right-hand model nr. 8206 or left-hand model nr. 8207)
- Original cables and covers in 1.8m or 2.5m length, 5mm outside diameter (8267 or 8268)
- "External mech" box (EX 8212)
- Disk rotor screws (8214)
- Flange support rings (already pressed), model 8523 or 8524
- Splined Carrier (I believe this is model 8540/S for small, 8540 for large, or 8540L for Gates belt)
- 16 teeth cog for chain (others exist in sizes 13-21, or 19-22 for Gates belt. Note: cogs 13 and 14 can only be used with 8540 carrier, not 8540/S)
- OEM 2 mount plate (TS OEM2 8228)

4) And additional accessories to be bought if needed:

- Chain tensioner model nr. 8245 Shorty (or Rohloff Downhill Kit 8293)
- Rohloff all-year oil and cleaning oil (available in packages from 25 to 250 ml)
- (If needed/appropriate) Rohloff Monkeybone XXL 8553-10 or 8554-10 (for 160 or 180mm disk rotors (requires adapter for 203mm rotor)), or Speedbone 8550

5) NOTE: The Speedhub has a 4-hole disk brake mount, so have a matching disk rotor or buy a 4->6 hole adapter.

6) And additionally you can buy any Rohloff model in a "Tandem" version -- it just means it comes with 2.2m cables (instead of 1.8m) and has carrier bushings made of steel instead of aluminum.

Any corrections/updates welcome. Enjoy!