5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Oct 11 2016 8:09am

Hmm, thanks for your feedback, will look in to it. But weirdly they work fine on my mobile FF and CM13 browsers...
Is anyone else having issues with the website?
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by jumpjack » Nov 28 2016 1:34pm

MrDude_1 wrote:
circuit wrote:Hi,

Connection diagram is given on product page:
https://www.energusps.com/shop/product/ ... 0a-750a-36
Image
Is this schematic correct? Cells connection starts from cell n.4 if you have 12 cells??? :shock: I can't imagine any good reason for this "reverse connection".

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Nov 28 2016 1:38pm

Yes, it is correct. Yes, it is weird, but that is what is required according to AFE's (main IC) manufacturer.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by jumpjack » Nov 28 2016 3:20pm

circuit wrote:Yes, it is correct. Yes, it is weird, but that is what is required according to AFE's (main IC) manufacturer.
Why do you care? You are building your own circuit around a chip, just use your favourite numbering!

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by MrDude_1 » Nov 28 2016 5:09pm

jumpjack wrote:
circuit wrote:Yes, it is correct. Yes, it is weird, but that is what is required according to AFE's (main IC) manufacturer.
Why do you care? You are building your own circuit around a chip, just use your favourite numbering!
the numbering matters because of how the resistor ladders internal to the chip are laid out.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by jumpjack » Nov 29 2016 8:16am

MrDude_1 wrote:
jumpjack wrote:
circuit wrote:Yes, it is correct. Yes, it is weird, but that is what is required according to AFE's (main IC) manufacturer.
Why do you care? You are building your own circuit around a chip, just use your favourite numbering!
the numbering matters because of how the resistor ladders internal to the chip are laid out.
Numbers are important just to the designer; final users doesn't need to know anything of internal pinouts and wirings, he just sees a connector numbered from 1 to 16, and he reads on the manual that he must connect cell 1 to pin 16 ane leave pin 1, 2, 3 and4 floating, so he'll get these faces:
:shock:
:?
:roll:
:cry:


Then he will do one of these things:
- close the page of the BMS because he considers it a poorly designed product
- spend weeks/months on forums looking for confirmation about the odd wiring

I guess you'd prefer the visitor of your BMS page just clicking on buy, instead. :wink:


Additional suggestions:
1) free holes/pins to add bigger external balance resistors would be useful for expert users.
2) Do not use SMD components, use instead standard thru-hole components (apart of course for the chip).
I think current BMSs all make use of tiny SMD components and silly balance currents (100 mA for a 100 Ah battery?!?) just because they're based on legacy RC-world (=toys) BMSs! Indeed, lithium battery were first used on RC models because models need very small&light batteries; and also small&light electronics.
I think there's no need at all to use tiny SMD components for a BMS to be mounted on a vehicle, it just makes it impossible to repair them.
I already "wasted" 2 BMSs just because I fried a resistor or a transistor on them; replacement cost: 0,20$; replacement impossible due to lack of tools&skill, new BMSs required, 200$ spent! (1000x the damage cost)
If a BMS for vehicle is large 30cm rather than 10cm, nobody will complain. :)

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Nov 29 2016 8:59am

jumpjack wrote:Numbers are important just to the designer; final users doesn't need to know anything of internal pinouts and wirings, he just sees a connector numbered from 1 to 16, and he reads on the manual that he must connect cell 1 to pin 16 ane leave pin 1, 2, 3 and4 floating, so he'll get these faces:
:shock:
:?
:roll:
:cry:
Such connection is given on:
* website
* datasheet
* BMS board itself.
That should be enough. Also almost all centralized BMSes have a red bold note/warning in uppercase letters to follow connection procedure, or ELSE.

jumpjack wrote: I guess you'd prefer the visitor of your BMS page just clicking on buy, instead. :wink:
We prefer well informed, professional users. It's not much of a business when you make 20 bucks on a sale and then spend a week emailing.

I will not comment on following suggestions. This is not that kind of a product.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by MrDude_1 » Nov 29 2016 9:51am

jumpjack wrote: I guess you'd prefer the visitor of your BMS page just clicking on buy, instead. :wink:
I would like to HAVE a BMS page. lol.
That would means somewhere around here I would have a stack of BMSs...
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by jumpjack » Nov 29 2016 10:34am

circuit wrote: Such connection is given on:
[...]
We prefer well informed, professional users. It's not much of a business when you make 20 bucks on a sale and then spend a week emailing.

I will not comment on following suggestions. This is not that kind of a product.
As you like.
I was just suggesting how to sell more.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Nov 29 2016 11:14am

There have been plenty of projects with through-hole components on ES,at least around 2008... Some even somewhat successful.
But to be fair, you can't even get those ICs in "solderable package" (DIP). Those days have passed, now DIYers are perfectly capable of soldering 0402 resistors, ICs with 0.5mm pitch and even BGA packages at home.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by MrDude_1 » Nov 29 2016 11:36am

circuit wrote:There have been plenty of projects with through-hole components on ES,at least around 2008... Some even somewhat successful.
But to be fair, you can't even get those ICs in "solderable package" (DIP). Those days have passed, now DIYers are perfectly capable of soldering 0402 resistors, ICs with 0.5mm pitch and even BGA packages at home.
Its even easier with modern parts. I just use the toaster oven.
although I will admit, I bought one of those "old man lights".. a big magnifier on an arm with a light around it. lol Makes it easier to confirm everything its good.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by eflyersteve » Dec 09 2016 5:57pm

It looks like a 2 week lead-time on orders correct? (I'm in USA).

Thanks!

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Dec 10 2016 3:18am

Yes, there is a new batch coming and hopefully we will be able to ship out before Christmas. Hard to keep up with orders lately.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cwah » Dec 27 2016 10:05pm

I'd like to buy one at 150A finally. Could you confirm if:
- it's possible to view via bluetooth the discharge rate of the cells while riding?
- What's the best way to protect it against rain? Can I just use few layer of food wrap?
- And the life time warranty is that if it fails in 5 years you can still fix it? I ship it back and you fix it and send it back without extra cost?

Thanks
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Freemann » Jan 23 2017 11:51am

Does anybody has a idea what could be wrong with my new TinyBMS install when the BMS is not letting power through while the battery and cell cables are connected?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Freemann » Jan 24 2017 8:54am

After contact with "Energus/circuit", its fixed with a new firmware version and changing the Charger type to "CC/CV".

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Freemann » Feb 28 2017 10:27am

Another question;
The manual shows on figure2 on Pin10 that its possible to connect a hall sensor.
My Hub motor has 3 hallsensors, is it possible to connect one(1) sensor to this pin, so the BMS knows the speed of my escooter?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by dakoal » May 05 2017 2:49pm

Hello,

is here still someone active from energusps?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » May 10 2017 5:57am

Sure, we're here.

Hall sensors: simply connect only one via 10k resistor.

dakoal, for best response time, please contact us via online form on the website:
https://www.energusps.com/page/website.contactus
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Rube » May 10 2017 7:29am

Hi, great products. Are you still thinking of developing a BMS solution for larger packs? You've got me thinking about changing to 16S :)

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » May 10 2017 7:33am

We are still thinking, but most of big players don't go much over 48V, or do for 144V or more. So it will take some time, as our priority is perfecting of current product.
When you compare all + and -, there is really no big reason to go for >16s.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by macribs » May 10 2017 4:38pm

Hm OK? In real life what would the outcome be to switch from say 20s16p to 16s20p? For this example lets set motor to a DD hub. And controller sine wave FOC controller. No lets imagine two different controllers, controller 1 phase amp = 350. And lets say wheel/tire diamter is 18" mc.

So how would such battery and Bms setup work out for torque and acceleration, both from standstill and say from 25 mph to top speed.
How would the bottom end torque and stand still acceleration change by switching from 20s16p to 16s20p, lets imagine such set up with two different controllers. One tops out at 350 A the other at 600 A. And how would the mid torque be impacted by the voltage fall from 20s to 16s?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » May 10 2017 11:12pm

macribs wrote:Hm OK? In real life what would the outcome be to switch from say 20s16p to 16s20p? For this example lets set motor to a DD hub. And controller sine wave FOC controller. No lets imagine two different controllers, controller 1 phase amp = 350. And lets say wheel/tire diamter is 18" mc.

So how would such battery and Bms setup work out for torque and acceleration, both from standstill and say from 25 mph to top speed.
How would the bottom end torque and stand still acceleration change by switching from 20s16p to 16s20p, lets imagine such set up with two different controllers. One tops out at 350 A the other at 600 A. And how would the mid torque be impacted by the voltage fall from 20s to 16s?
Been discussed over and over again, not going to involve myself in that again. Look it up.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by macribs » May 11 2017 10:17am

Well maybe I overlooked that, but I browsed all of this thread without finding anything. I don't know why you answered like you did, if you felt maybe I was attacking your thread or my Q's where ill intended? I can assure you it was not, it was very much a sincere question.

In other threads here on ES there have been a few posts this winter and spring about people that are looking into going lower voltage then the defacto 72v to allow for even more current and higher max Amp.

So I have yet to see any real world examples of how this would play out, hence my questions. I hope you in light of this will find the time to respond to my questions. After all you did write this without explaining things further:
When you compare all + and -, there is really no big reason to go for >16s
So again for heavier ebikes with 205 motors and 20s16p batteries how will the change to 16s20p affect acceleration. Both from stand still and mid range acceleration. Use two different controllers. One 72200 with peak phase current of 350 A, and another controller 72600 with peak phase current 600 Amp.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » May 11 2017 10:23am

Sorry for answering like I did, bus, basically, short answer is: get a motor with correct RPM/V constant to achieve required speed at given voltage and all your problems will go away: you will be able to use industrial chargers, that are cheaper and of better quality, more options with BMS, DC/DC 12V converters. Also there are some decent 48V motor controllers as well. It will have to handle higher current, but so what? Unless you are aiming for 20kW+, then maybe opt in for 144 or 345V...
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