Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

lightrush said:
Fonts are busted on Ubuntu 16.04.
Click to expand...

I used to face the same issue, font directory has to be appended to QT_QPA_FONTDIR environment variable, as it used to be done by a small helper script (CASetupUtility.sh) that was included in v1.31.

Within setup utility directory:
Code: 
export QT_QPA_FONTDIR="./data/fonts"
./CASetupUtility
alternatively, required font seems to be shipped in main distros:
Code: 
export QT_QPA_FONTDIR="/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/"
./CASetupUtility

Anyway, thanks a lot for providing linux setup utilities, for both CA and PhaseRunner, it's really great not to have to start a windows VM any more to tune my bike!
 
lightrush said:
I updated the firmware using the Windows utility. Keyed in all my parameters in the setup utility and loaded them onto the CA. The CA then told me that something is wrong with my throttle. The throttle icon showed full throttle and was blinking. Pushing the throttle didn't produce actual effect. I went in and looked at the values. They all looked correct. I hypothesized that the 0.00V for me zero throttle may be a lie (rounding off error) so I entered 1.11, saved, then entered 0.00, all on the CA. My throttle began working as normal.

This is a little worrying because I'm not sure if I can trust what the setup utility shows and what actually gets loaded onto the CA. Generally lots of values get decreased by one hundredth (0.5 -> 0.49) but when the number in the CA doesn't even reflect that, it's not good. I'm planning to re-flash the CA and key-in all the values via the CA itself just to be sure nothing is off.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the computations in the CA use different arithmetic and precision than those in the Setup Utility so some variation is generally expected. Historically, the CA fiddled the display values a little to 'round up' many display values in an attempt to hide these inevitable discrepancies. Unfortunately, some of that scaling and rounding code was altered in 3.1 and you may have noticed a certain resurgence of the display differences. This is something that needs a little attention but generally has undetectable functional effect.

But -
  1. I took a look at you Setup Utility = 0V entry issue and find that the SU actually delivers the proper 0V value - 100% correct - it is the CA that does not enter 0V properly. The difference is very tiny and may or may not have always been there. This will take a little investigating to sort out but is clearly in the 'rounding/precision' range of offsets (about 0.3%). I suspect this is new bug introduced recently, but we'll see...

  2. Realistically, you should not be entering ThrI->ZeroThrsh = 0V. As indicated in the Guide, this should be set to a somewhat larger value to ensure that the CA actually sees the ZERO throttle condition. The Guide recommends ZERO+0.2V but with a good quality resistive throttle you can go mush lower (I actually use 0.05V for my Magura). So - what we are seeing here is that ZeroThrsh set to 0V with the Setup Utility is actually 0V, but it's about 0.018V when set to '0V' with the CA Console. The former gives a throttle fault, but the second doesn't. So - the bug in the CA Console routine makes the suboptimal choice of setting to 0V work okay - the two 'errors' cancel and it works...
Anyhow - I cut a trouble ticket for this and we'll get it squared away. Meanwhile, don't worry about the Setup Utility, just make sure you've got a safety margin on your thresholds to account for noise and device variations and all should be good.

Thanks for the report! :D
 
fanchon said:
lightrush said:
Fonts are busted on Ubuntu 16.04.
Click to expand...
I used to face the same issue, font directory has to be appended to QT_QPA_FONTDIR environment variable, as it used to be done by a small helper script (CASetupUtility.sh) that was included in v1.31.
Click to expand...
I opened a ticket on this to get a fix in the pipe.
Guys, thanks for the problem report and analysis! :D
 
mrbill said:
mrbill said:
I found another possible bug: Sometimes when clicking one button or the other when riding along, the temporary AuxA Pot screen pops up. It occasionally stays up for several seconds, longer than the usual one second or so after making an adjustment to the pot. It does not seem to be related to road vibration but rather to my clicking one of the mode buttons on the CA3. Usually doesn't occur, but for a while on today's ride it occurred frequently when I was clicking through the diagnotics screen and the battery IR screen, one and two screens to the "left" of the main screen.
Click to expand...

I observed this error again yesterday. The problem presented itself when I was not touching the CA3 buttons. When it occurred, instead of showing me a single number for power in watts, I saw rapidly changing tens and ones digits as if I were vibrating the pot slightly back and forth. The hundreds digit did not change.

I also tried tapping and jiggling the CA3, the AuxA pot. and its wiring but could not elicit the error condition when doing so.
Click to expand...

I have for the last several weeks observed the AuxA Pot screen pop up without my adjusting the AuxA pot. The problem occurs randomly, although always when I am under power or regeneration. Since my initial observation I have cleaned the pot contacts, unplugged and re-plugged the connectors, cycled power, etc. The only state that gets rid of the problem altogether is to remove the AuxD buttons from the circuit and return to using only the AuxA pot.

So, I suspect the AuxD buttons, or perhaps some component within, is the culprit.

I should note that I have an identical setup on another bike that gives no spurious presentation of the AuxA Pot screen. It may be my particular set of AuxD buttons that are causing this problem.
 
mrbill said:
I have for the last several weeks observed the AuxA Pot screen pop up without my adjusting the AuxA pot. The problem occurs randomly, although always when I am under power or regeneration. Since my initial observation I have cleaned the pot contacts, unplugged and re-plugged the connectors, cycled power, etc. The only state that gets rid of the problem altogether is to remove the AuxD buttons from the circuit and return to using only the AuxA pot.

So, I suspect the AuxD buttons, or perhaps some component within, is the culprit.

I should note that I have an identical setup on another bike that gives no spurious presentation of the AuxA Pot screen. It may be my particular set of AuxD buttons that are causing this problem.
Click to expand...
bill-
I PMed you with a special version of b16 to see if it diminishes the symptoms by raising the threshold for the AuxA 'change' popup.

In any case, my knee-jerk reaction is that this is a noise issue -- particularly since it seems to occur in situations of higher current draw. The different behavior between the two installations is interesting but in itself not too telling because of the many possible differences between the builds. However, I'm curious if you purchased both of the DigiAux buttons at the same time as there were a few very early units that went out with different resistor pairs (2.2K and 4.7K instead of the later 4.7K for both). The Aux signal line no-button-push impedance is somewhat higher in the later units and so may be slightly more sensitive to noise.

>>What is the resistance of your pot and does it have any resistors on the leads?
 
teklektik said:
mrbill said:
I have for the last several weeks observed the AuxA Pot screen pop up without my adjusting the AuxA pot. The problem occurs randomly, although always when I am under power or regeneration. Since my initial observation I have cleaned the pot contacts, unplugged and re-plugged the connectors, cycled power, etc. The only state that gets rid of the problem altogether is to remove the AuxD buttons from the circuit and return to using only the AuxA pot.

So, I suspect the AuxD buttons, or perhaps some component within, is the culprit.

I should note that I have an identical setup on another bike that gives no spurious presentation of the AuxA Pot screen. It may be my particular set of AuxD buttons that are causing this problem.
Click to expand...
bill-
I PMed you with a special version of b16 to see if it diminishes the symptoms by raising the threshold for the AuxA 'change' popup.

In any case, my knee-jerk reaction is that this is a noise issue -- particularly since it seems to occur in situations of higher current draw. The different behavior between the two installations is interesting but in itself not too telling because of the many possible differences between the builds. However, I'm curious if you purchased both of the DigiAux buttons at the same time as there were a few very early units that went out with different resistor pairs (2.2K and 4.7K instead of the later 4.7K for both). The Aux signal line no-button-push impedance is somewhat higher in the later units and so may be slightly more sensitive to noise.

>>What is the resistance of your pot and does it have any resistors on the leads?
Click to expand...

Hi tek:

Thanks for the x16 firmware. I loaded it up, but I won't get a chance to test it until this weekend.

I bought my two AuxD buttons directly from Grin. They were the last two sets of buttons in stock as of March 19, 2017.

My AuxA pot is the eZee "Assist Factor" pot that Grin sold a few years ago. I see about 9k across the entire pot, but the wiper swings between 1.75k and 7k. Although there are no visible resistors on the leads, the measurements suggest otherwise.
 
Thanks for the info, bill. No rush on the test results - at your convenience and as the weather permits. :)
When you post back results, I'd be interested to know if you have the same pot on the bike that is not experiencing problems...
I confess to being a little puzzled by this.
 
teklektik said:
Thanks for the info, bill. No rush on the test results - at your convenience and as the weather permits. :)
When you post back results, I'd be interested to know if you have the same pot on the bike that is not experiencing problems...
I confess to being a little puzzled by this.
Click to expand...

I'll report back on my test results after the weekend.

Yes, I use the same potentiometer model, purchased at the same time, on the bike that is not experiencing problems. Also the same controller (ASI BAC2000), motor (Edge 1500 w/Statoraid and Hubsinks), and CA3 (at firmware revision b16 (now x16 on the problem bike)) are on both bikes, connected in the same way. There could be unit to unit variability somewhere that accounts for the abnormal display behavior. But my two bikes are configured as closely as possible as this makes it easier for me to keep the settings and firmware (both controller and CA3) up-to-date.
 
mrbill said:
I'll report back on my test results after the weekend.
Click to expand...

I rode a long distance yesterday with the 3.1x16 firmware.

https://mrbill.homeip.net/bikeBlog.php?2017#aroundTheBayWithTamDiablo.2017.05.28

The original problem of the AuxA Pot screen appearing randomly when the AuxA pot is not being adjusted did not manifest itself with the x16 firmware. I do notice that I have to turn the pot a bit further to get the screen to appear, but in practice this is not a problem.

I did observe a new problem that I describe in some detail in my blog entry linked above. (Substitute "CycleAnalyst V3" for "computer" in the blog.)

The short version is that I had several instances of the CA3 showing hundreds of amps drawn while I was on my ride that I was only able to clear by cycling power to the controller and/or unplugging and re-plugging the CA3's 6-pin JST connector that includes the shunt sense wires. The problem reappeared several more times during the ride, often during or immediately following a long session of powered riding or regenerating, sometimes in combination with rough road conditions.

The next day I attempted to observe the problem on the bench. I placed a dummy load (power resistor) of 8 Amps through the shunt, then without disconnecting them I physically manipulated both* CA3 6-pin JST connectors. Squeezing the connector closest to the CA3 that I had not exercised during my ride caused the high amp reading the appear. I then unplugged and re-plugged that connector after refreshing the dielectric grease on the pins. Since then I have been unable to elicit the spurious current reading when using a dummy load.

I will continue to monitor for a return of the problem.

In light of the fact that I had not touched the "upper" CA3 6-pin JST connector recently and that the only other significant change was the uploading of the x16 firmware, I have to wonder if the the x16 firmware increases the CA3 sensitivity to noise on the shunt circuit. Does it?

*Because my bike has long cable runs I added a second 6-pin JST CA3 connector near the CA3 head so that I could easily remove the CA3 from the handlebars without removing the entire length of attached cable from the bike.
 
mrbill said:
I rode a long distance yesterday with the 3.1x16 firmware.
...
The original problem of the AuxA Pot screen appearing randomly when the AuxA pot is not being adjusted did not manifest itself with the x16 firmware. I do notice that I have to turn the pot a bit further to get the screen to appear, but in practice this is not a problem.
Click to expand...
This is good news and seems to verify the electrical noise diagnosis for your issue.

The 'AUXA Change' pop-up is triggered by a change in signal above a certain percentage of full scale. In b16 this threshold is 4%, in x16 it's jacked up to 6%. The user interface changes exactly as you have described: a larger rapid change is required to both trigger the pop-up as well as to keep it displayed. The main effect is the 'keep it displayed' part where it becomes more difficult to dial in a particular target setting since the use is dialing slower and so the changes between samples become smaller as the rider more slowly attempts to tweak in the final setting after a more rapid large initial control excursion. This 'change' percentage is annoying to get right since it has a pretty direct effect on the user experience.

Normally we would suggest a small cap on an analog signal line to smooth or bypass noise. The problem in this case is that the line has the digital buttons riding the same signal and the firmware that discriminates analog voltages and digital button pushes is sensitive to the digital button ON/OFF/ON transition times. It's quite possible that a small cap from signal to GND might help as long as it doesn't materially slow these transitions. Another ploy might be to add a cap at the button end across the 5V/GND to eliminate signal noise on the power leads without affecting the transition times at all. This is less likely to have an effect, but it's tough to tell without actually seeing the noise situation on a scope.

In any case, your issue has prompted some discussion here, so we'll see where this goes - at least the issue has visibility.

mrbill said:
I did observe a new problem...

The short version is that I had several instances of the CA3 showing hundreds of amps...
...
I then unplugged and re-plugged that connector after refreshing the dielectric grease on the pins. Since then I have been unable to elicit the spurious current reading when using a dummy load.
...
...I have to wonder if the the x16 firmware increases the CA3 sensitivity to noise on the shunt circuit. Does it?

*Because my bike has long cable runs I added a second 6-pin JST CA3 connector near the CA3 head so that I could easily remove the CA3 from the handlebars without removing the entire length of attached cable from the bike.
Click to expand...
Nope. I'm certain the coincident occurrences are a red herring and there are two separate issues in play. The 'amps' phenomena looks to be a connector issue with pretty high certainty.

The extremely tiny analog voltages across the shunt leads certainly places a premium on soldered connection all the way. But - on one bike I also have a JSTs on all my CA connections about 6 inches from the CA - largely because of thru-frame wiring. This has proven to be immensely handy through the years and has never given any problems. That said, the JSTs are protected from weather and actually are assembled dry w/o dielectric grease. Drawing conclusions from anecdotal evidence is dangerous, but this is at least one example where the idea has proven successful. So - I'm thinking your strategy can be reliable but there may be exposure or maintenance issues in play.
 
teklektik said:
cero said:
Hi
One strange thing with the latest beta firmware.
I have 3 position switch installed, controlling 3 preset modes (legal,economy,unlimited).
If I drive in unlimited mode with auto-cruise on and then change to to another mode with switch, everything is ok.
But when I switch back to unlimited mode, auto-cruise function is still enabled, so the bike starts to accelerate uncontrollable.
Click to expand...
Hey cero-
So - this is unexpected and not very nice behavior...
I cut a problem report for this, so it will be pursued, but unfortunately I can't duplicate it. It looks like we may need some particular mix of configuration to evoke it.

>>> Could you possibly pull a setup file and post it here or in a PM to me? <<<

  • I did notice another odd autocruise behavior, though. It seems that if autocruise is presently engaged and the preset is changed to a preset where autocruise in not enabled, the 'engaged' condition persists until manually disengaged. So, the configuration option only affects 'engagement' but not the 'steady state' autocruise condition.

    This is sort of a weird but inoffensive edge case and I don't believe anyone has complained, but it may need a little attention...
Click to expand...

Hi it's been a couple of weeks, but here is my configuration
 

Attachments

  • setup cax16.hex
    1.3 KB · Views: 18
teklektik said:
Normally we would suggest a small cap on an analog signal line to smooth or bypass noise. The problem in this case is that the line has the digital buttons riding the same signal and the firmware that discriminates analog voltages and digital button pushes is sensitive to the digital button ON/OFF/ON transition times. It's quite possible that a small cap from signal to GND might help as long as it doesn't materially slow these transitions. Another ploy might be to add a cap at the button end across the 5V/GND to eliminate signal noise on the power leads without affecting the transition times at all. This is less likely to have an effect, but it's tough to tell without actually seeing the noise situation on a scope.
Click to expand...

Hi tek:

Can you recommend a value for the small cap? Thanks.
 
mrbill said:
teklektik said:
... but it's tough to tell without actually seeing the noise situation on a scope.
Click to expand...
Can you recommend a value for the small cap? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I knew that question was coming... :D
Just shooting blind here, but you might try something in the neighborhood of 1uf-2.2uf across 5V-GND and/or Signal-GND for the DigiAux/AUX-POT connection. If the buttons start to give spurious analog twitching when pushed, then the Signal-Gnd cap is too big.

You may have to play around with different values here. Capacitance adds when paralleled, so a few .5uf parts will allow you to jury-rig a number of 'interesting' nearby values to home in on a final (hopefully) effective component spec.
 
I am curious if there is any possibility to use cruise control without a thumb throttle? Something like a Push Button which engages Cruise Control until Ebrakes are used?
 
MrBill -- regarding the "high amps" issue: I had exactly the same issues last year that you describe in your post above.

I ended up reflashing firmware, etc. to no avail. I was just about to post a description of my problems (had post already typed up), but before I hit the Submit button, I thought I'd check one more thing. I had already done some basic continuity checks of the DP-6 connector(s), and they 'passed'. But, thinking that 'bad wiring' had bitten me many times before in the world of electron travels, I went a bit further. I took apart the wiring harness between the CAv3's JST-SM6 (DP) connector, and guess what?

One of the wires (I forget which) had the multi-strand conductors broken *inside the outer insulation* layer, and 'mostly' they rubbed together and conducted. However, as you might guess, certain flexing of the whole assembly caused a *temporary* break in that conductor, causing a (random?) high current reading. I rewired the the section between the CA and the JST connector, using high-flex "silicone" wire (which I now use for all e-vehicle wiring), and ALL of these issues automagically disappeared.

Note: I have 3 CAv3's at my disposal, so I was able to 'divide and conquer' -- so my diagnosis wasn't totally a shot in the dark. ;)
 
insane said:
I am curious if there is any possibility to use cruise control without a thumb throttle? Something like a Push Button which engages Cruise Control until Ebrakes are used?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing this is a pretty low powered bike and you just want to turn to WOT and then let it go...

Sure - attach the button across the throttle signal and 5V leads, set both the max and fault Throttle In voltages to 4V (actually anything less than 4.98V). Done.

To be fancier, you can also use a pot or DigiAux Switch and set it to limit Throttle Out -- then you can engage the autocruise button throttle and dial in the desired speed with the pot or buttons.

Another option would be to add a PAS sensor configured for max power using the pot/btns above with no throttle or button. Here you get power whenever you pedal as adjusted by the pot. This would also work fine in conjunction with the button/autocruise above.
 
rowbiker said:
MrBill -- regarding the "high amps" issue: I had exactly the same issues last year that you describe in your post above.

I ended up reflashing firmware, etc. to no avail. I was just about to post a description of my problems (had post already typed up), but before I hit the Submit button, I thought I'd check one more thing. I had already done some basic continuity checks of the DP-6 connector(s), and they 'passed'. But, thinking that 'bad wiring' had bitten me many times before in the world of electron travels, I went a bit further. I took apart the wiring harness between the CAv3's JST-SM6 (DP) connector, and guess what?

One of the wires (I forget which) had the multi-strand conductors broken *inside the outer insulation* layer, and 'mostly' they rubbed together and conducted. However, as you might guess, certain flexing of the whole assembly caused a *temporary* break in that conductor, causing a (random?) high current reading. I rewired the the section between the CA and the JST connector, using high-flex "silicone" wire (which I now use for all e-vehicle wiring), and ALL of these issues automagically disappeared.

Note: I have 3 CAv3's at my disposal, so I was able to 'divide and conquer' -- so my diagnosis wasn't totally a shot in the dark. ;)
Click to expand...

Hi rowbiker:

I'm 99% sure the "high amps" problem was in my wiring, and 90% sure it was a poor pin contact at the JST connector I inserted inline a few inches from the CA3. My short test ride yesterday saw no problems since I exercised and cleaned the connector. My next step would have been to replace the connector on the CA3 side where I could occasionally observe a variation in the amps reading (with a constant dummy load through the system) when I squeezed the wire immediately behind the connector. I will continue to watch for a recurrence of this problem and will take further remedial action if necessary.

Thanks for your suggestion.
 
craigsj said:
I have notice in beta 20 that The Torque Assist Averaging field does not save. I always read back a value of 8 from the device.
Click to expand...
Since b20 is identical to b16 firmware, the behavior 'should' be the same at the CA end - although the Setup Utility has undergone a lot of changes at the other end...

We're a little jammed up on a hunt for a particularly elusive bug just now, but we'll give this matter a look shortly.
Thanks for the post!
 
used the CA for years now, but never played with FASTRAMP. now i tried to enable it.
as i have a mid drive with a torque controlled controller i set my throttle to pass thru. throttle voltage ramping is set to 99.99V/s. so as quick as possible.
the mid drive has some slack in the drive train. rear gear, chain, front gears, freewheels, motor freewheels etc ... so if i hit the throttle the motor (seeing no load) revs up pretty quick, the drive train engages and the motor hits a wall. BANG. lot of stress on the drive train.

but as far as i understood the fast ramping addresses the quite opposite issue. it tries to bring up to motor to speed as quick as possible. i would need to rev it up slowly until the amps reach a current somewhere around no load current. then the drive train is engaged and it can apply full throttle.

or is this already possible?
thanks!
 
izeman said:
i would need to rev it up slowly until the amps reach a current somewhere around no load current. then the drive train is engaged and it can apply full throttle.

or is this already possible?
Click to expand...
Nope.
My bike has gear motors and I had much the same configuration thoughts years back when I initially switched to a CA3 and tried to set the 'FastRate' slower than the 'UpRate'. At that time we didn't have the rate flags on the Diagnostics screen and it was unclear what was really going on. It turns out this doesn't work because the CA always chooses the faster rate of UpRate and FastRate when current is less than the Fast Threshold. If you have PAS engaged, it's the faster of PASRate and FastRate.

  • That said, you have a torque controller so you might be able to leverage the 'voltage = torque' theory of operation to your benefit by adjusting ThrO->MinOut a tiny bit high so that the drive system always has a bit of torque on it even at ZERO throttle to take the slop out of the driveline. This should result in the motor running up to whatever speed is required to develop the small 'no-slop' torque against the road, so this should work okay either from a standing start or re-engagement at speed. With ramping in the controller set fast and any desired ramping being carried out in the CA, the controller should snap the motor torque to the no-slop torque level pretty quickly going either up or down.

    Caveat: I haven't tried this with a torque controller and my Phaserunner bike is off the road just now, so this is just supposition without verification. :D
 
thanks teklektik. so i was right. i hate that ;)
if i raise the minout voltage this will trigger the throttle voltage alarm of the controller during boot. it won't start if there is some voltage above it's own lowest set throttle voltage.
but what you suggest is more or less what i see me doing all the time. i don't release the throttle completly to keep the drive train engaged. but this is not very economical and puts unnecessary stress on the brakes. and it doesn't help in those "coasting situation" where you coast with zero throttle and zero rpm motor and reengage the motor to catch up the bike at speed.
wouldn't that be a nice feature to add? i'm not the only one with a mid drive. and the more powerful they are the more of a problem that is. imho you would just need to be able to toggle the fast ramp treshold current a "lower OR upper" limit.
 
izeman said:
if i raise the minout voltage this will trigger the throttle voltage alarm of the controller during boot. it won't start if there is some voltage above it's own lowest set throttle voltage.
...
it doesn't help in those "coasting situation" where you coast with zero throttle and zero rpm motor and reengage the motor to catch up the bike at speed
...
wouldn't that be a nice feature to add?
Click to expand...
Yep - if the controller input fault is enabled, that will surely stop that plan from working.

It should work fine for the coasting situation since the motor should spin up to apply the small torque - or more accurately - should never spin down, but should track the coasting speed applying only very small power to hold chain tension. This doesn't work in the case of the classic Infineon PWM throttle (aka 'speed throttle') but it should in the case of a torque throttle controller (that irritating motor behavior when the bike is on a stand and the throttle seems to be all or nothing).

This wasn't quite so attractive in the past for the PWM-throttle case, but maybe the idea should be revisited with the proliferation of Phaserunners and other torque-based controllers. Okay - it's on the discussion list... :D
 
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