New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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Patoruzu
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Patoruzu » Jul 18, 2017 3:19 am

Grizzly wrote:Patoruzu,

Are you using a fully charged 52v battery?
Nope. Currently I have a touring overkilling 1500wh pack.

Type: Lithium Battery
Voltage: 48v
Capacity: 31 - 40Ah
Nominal Capacity: 31Ah
Cells: Sanyo NCR18650GA 3450mAh 10A 3C Cells
BMS: 40 Amp continuous 100Amp maximum
Composed Type: 13S 9P
Charger: 54.6V 4A
Battery Weight: 7.0kg

I will build a lighter one for commuting once I calculate the capacity and watts I need. Probably I will stay 13S (happy with the level of assistance, unsure of XH18 overvolting stability) and use 52T (in light conditions sometimes my cadence is too fast @ fastest gear with 42T)

pexio
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pexio » Jul 18, 2017 8:56 am

tinasdude wrote:http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm680 8 speed 11-40. http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm980 9 speed. I have mounted the 9 speed on a build I will be doing. The fork is being rebuilt. Chain line would be an issue. 135 mm rear dropout. 42 lekkie purchased for BBSO2. With the 11-40. I hope to be able to use 2nd gear (34) Or at worst the 3rd gear (28). The long cage drailleur should handle it, since I won't be using the 40. As long as there is nothing steep that might be OK. If it isn't enough. rebuild the cassette. If I rebuild the cassette, and use the 40T and 40C, a derailleur solution would have to be obtained. It is a 2008 long cage derailleur. Doubt if it will step up, even with a longer B screw. Or use a 104 BCD adapter, a lower crank gear, and a rebuilt cassette. I read about the TSDZ2 and thought this may be perfect for a woods bike. Not going to buy any more BBSO2 parts are do any more mods until I get this motor. I have an old 100 buck DH bike that the BBSO2 is in. Rebuilt cassette and 32T crank. May finish that build, and wait on the Tonsheng for the other used 9 speed down hill bike. Both are older bikes. not going downhill or even hitting anything hard. Just some cush for a senior citizen.
The Sunrace CSM680 11-40t 8 speed cassette is a great option for ebikes. I recently installed one on my BBS02-equipped mountain bike (picture below). It's all steel and has individual cogs (not grouped together on spiders) that facilitate building a "FrankenCassette". As an aside, the TSDZ2 has the same crappy chainline as a BBSxx, so many of the options and solutions that the BBS guys came up with to improve chainline/shifting will apply here as well (Please review https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=84097). In particular, I wouldn't spend much time working on a dual chainring setup since the chainline problem will only be worsened - and cassettes and freewheels have quite a wide range these days making a "1x" drivetrain practical for most of us.

For my application, I replaced the 8 speed spacers between each of the cogs with narrower 11 speed spacers. This "squeezed" the cassette into an 11 speed which I could then use with my SRAM GX 11 speed derailleur and shifter . Moreover, it also allowed me to put spacers inboard of the cassette to move the cogs outward and improve chainline with the 32t Raceface ring on a 104 bcd adapter. I'll be installing another CSM680 "FrankenCassette" on my GF's bike which I'm converting from BBS02 to TSDZ2.
20170715_151306.jpg
Sunrace CSM680 11-40t
20170715_151247.jpg
Cassette spaced outboard
20170715_151247.jpg (107.43 KiB) Viewed 1059 times

tinasdude
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tinasdude » Jul 18, 2017 12:19 pm

Is that 104 BCD adapter and 32 race face on your BBSO2 or the TSDZ2? If the TSDZ2, did you have buy another 104 adapter? Great idea replacing the Cog spacers, and placing spacers behind the cassette! How much space did you save? Thanks for that link. Great information for chain line issues.

pexio
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pexio » Jul 18, 2017 2:33 pm

tinasdude wrote:Is that 104 BCD adapter and 32 race face on your BBSO2 or the TSDZ2? If the TSDZ2, did you have buy another 104 adapter? Great idea replacing the Cog spacers, and placing spacers behind the cassette! How much space did you save? Thanks for that link. Great information for chain line issues.
The 32t and 104 bcd adapter pictured are on the BBS. I did purchase a 104 bcd adapter for the TSDZ2 from ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Risun-104BCD-Ch ... SwK6RZGqr5) but have not installed it (yet) on my GF's bike. The stock 42t on the TSDZ2 works well for her gearing requirements presently. The various BBSxx adapters I have will not fit on the TSDZ2 because the five bolt circle diameter used on each brand's motor is different (naturally :roll: ).

The modified cassette and spacers behind it move the cogs about 1 inch further outboard which improves the chainline enough for the chain to shift to and run well on the lowest gear with the 32t/104 bcd adapter on the BBS. I'm very happy with the shifting performance.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by matte2k » Jul 19, 2017 12:45 pm

mscoot wrote:
mscoot wrote:
matte2k wrote:Have some questions before ordering a kit for my Bullitt cargo.

How many milimeter more to the right was the chainline after installation than before the installation?

Is it possible to mount the lekkie bling ring direktly on the "spider"? to get a better chain line?

Hom long is the cables from the motor to the display and to the battery?

What connection is the cable from the motor to the battery. I hope bullett connector?

Are there any difference between the displays? What would you recommend and why?
I have this motor mounted on a Bullitt.
Just so that you are warned, it does not fit out of the box.

However, it is a really nice motor though, and compliments the Alfine 8 or 11 IGH in a nice way if you have that. It's also very discrete once fitted to the Bullitt. I just hauled my entire family with beach stuff and all (a total of perhaps 250kg) all the way from the beach and 3 km long ride going up hill all the time. This was on a regular 250w EU-street legal motor, btw. It was slow at about 15-20 km/h, but the motor did fine without overheating.

To make it fit, you need to go at it with a dremel and trim off som bits of the motors casings. That's a 30 minute job if you've got the right bits, or perhaps half of that if you're sloppy.
The rear mounting point needs to be completely removed and grinded away off. If you're interested, I can give you some more details on where to cut and how to fit it.

There's also the issue about noise. Because the rear securing plate thingie is removed the motor pushes towards that big main centre tube on the frame. The slight hum of the motor is amplified by the frame and the cargo box in front unless you get creative with adding rubber o-rings and the like where it touches the frame.
Ok, so you're interested. Here goes:

Look at the two pictures. You have to remove the metal marked in red. Take care to not take too much, but just enough to clear the frame around the bottom bracket. Take away some, then test fit and repeat until your happy. To slide the motor in and out of the bottom bracket you need to unscrew the left side cover. Once the motor is seated properly, you can put the cover back on. Don't forget to blow away any metal debris that might have found it's way into the motor when the cover was off.

What's marked in blue are the three points where the motor touches the frame. You might want to put some sort of rubber o-ring or other soft material there to dampen the noise. (I forgot to add the second o-ring in the picture showing the front of motor). Especially the front part of the motor can be difficult to isolate properly from the frame. Put you could try without as well. It seems to me the newer versions of these motors are a fair bit more quiet.

To your other questions: the cables are more than long enough - no worries there. I think the small display is the nicest, Less cables, less fuss, but you loose the ability to charge your phone very, very slowly if that's your thing. With an IGH the chainline offset is negligible. I think it's off by about 1 cm. That doesn't bother me. Mine came with bullet connectors.

I've received my motor and the transformation of my Bullitt cargo bike has started.
First the motor bottom bracket part was too tight. Hade du sand a hole lot in my bb hole to get inte to fit.
Then when I finally got it in a bit. It seems that I need to trim it on a whole lot of more places than you had. At least 2 more.
Look att the attached images. At least 1mm (Probably 2 if I want to place some rubber in between the motor and frame). So know is the question if I dare to take all of the motor housing or if I should grind some in the aluminum frame as well???
Any ideas?
IMG_5713.jpg
IMG_5714.jpg
(214.05 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

MichaNL
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by MichaNL » Jul 19, 2017 2:31 pm

Hi people,

I've been reading page after page of this thread, but couldn't find answers to what I'm looking for.

I'm very interested in the TSDZ2 as till this moment I'm ebike less since my golden motor HBS gave up.
I have a 20" folder which I mounted that kit on with Cycle Analyst CA3, PAS and 36V 15Ah battery.
It was my first experience with an ebike kit and loved it and gave me a lot of knowledge about the response of a hub and CA3 itself.
Now I'm looking for a new build, with lighter components. And started with a new folder, and want to fit it with the TSDZ2 36V 350W and smaller battery.
Has anyone experience with the TSDZ2 with CA3? I also read a lot of questions about how to connect the throttle to the VLDC5 display but couldn't find the answer. Wouldn't the throttle to the CA3 be possible with this kit?

Can I also achieve at least 30Kmph with the standard 42T in combination with a nexus 8 22t and still have the assist from the TSDZ2? I've used the calculator posted somewhere here at ES, but that's not for an IGH.

MPM
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by MPM » Jul 19, 2017 3:38 pm

MichaNL wrote:Has anyone experience with the TSDZ2 with CA3?
I'm not aware of anyone having used the TSDZ2 with the CA3 or any other controller. The TSDZ2 comes with a controller built in that is tightly integrated with a torque sensor and for me it is the combination of the two that makes the motor great. It also results in a clean build with fewer wires than most other retrofit kits. Maybe you could see how you like the standard set-up first. You can always try to make it work with your CA3 later.
MichaNL wrote:Can I also achieve at least 30Kmph with the standard 42T in combination with a nexus 8 22t and still have the assist from the TSDZ2?
Someone else recently posted a link to the most awesome gearing calculator I've seen:
http://www.gear-calculator.com/
For gearing you can select your nexus 8 ('Shimano Alf/Inter 8'), you select your 22t, 42T and the correct 20" tire. Pick to display 'Speed'. When I just pick a random 20" tire, it looks like at 90 cadence you can go up to 26 km/hr. Around that cadence,with a 36V battery, the TSDZ2 support will become less.
On the calculator slide the rear sprocket left until the top gear shows your desired 30km/hr. An 18t sprocket may work well.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Patoruzu » Jul 19, 2017 4:43 pm

MichaNL wrote: Can I also achieve at least 30Kmph with the standard 42T in combination with a nexus 8 22t and still have the assist from the TSDZ2?
Maybe by tweaking the firmware (unknown land) you can turn off the assist limit speed.
Otherwise you can configure it up to 45km/h

I reach and sustain 30-35km/h in level 4 with 42T 11(-32 9 speed) with minimum effort on my 28" trekking/touring bike. Also in lower levels. Above that I need to start fighting the wind and wasting too much energy.
I can climb the steepest hill effortless too on 32

Only in very few situations I feel I need a faster gear (never slower, even when going uphill pulling a 100kg extra load). Therefore I will also try a 52T. I hope I will be able to use a front derailleur and have it all.
If 2x does not work, I will probably stay with 1x 52T and upgrade my cassette to 11-42 or 11-46 (10 speed).
But I had a 3x, and the current 42T is more or less where my middle gear was. So another front gear (2x) looks plausible.

See this:
http://www.poweredride.com/info/get-a-m ... e-cassette

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jul 19, 2017 5:28 pm

MPM wrote:Someone else recently posted a link to the most awesome gearing calculator I've seen:
http://www.gear-calculator.com/
That one awesome? Not for me; it won't do the calculations for my setup because the author hard-coded the entries and didn't include mine. My version may be more clunky to use, but can be adapted to work for everyone:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1301788

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jul 19, 2017 5:30 pm

Patoruzu wrote: Maybe by tweaking the firmware (unknown land) you can turn off the assist limit speed.
Otherwise you can configure it up to 45km/h
Hmmm... I was able to turn off the limit completely just through the VLCD-5 display's setup screens. My unit was built in the first week of June, this year. Maybe you have an old one?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jul 19, 2017 5:34 pm

matte2k wrote:
I've received my motor and the transformation of my Bullitt cargo bike has started.
First the motor bottom bracket part was too tight. Hade du sand a hole lot in my bb hole to get inte to fit.
Then when I finally got it in a bit. It seems that I need to trim it on a whole lot of more places than you had. At least 2 more.
Look att the attached images. At least 1mm (Probably 2 if I want to place some rubber in between the motor and frame). So know is the question if I dare to take all of the motor housing or if I should grind some in the aluminum frame as well???
Any ideas?
If you take material off of the frame, you may create what engineers call a stress riser that could lead to failure. If you DO take material off the frame, be sure to smooth out ALL scratches and put in no sharp lines at all - this is where the stress will all focus and cause failure. Better if you can take it all out of the motor; the worst that can happen is you pedal home whereas if you have trouble with the frame it could be truly catastrophic depending on the timing of a failure.

Good luck!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by MichaNL » Jul 20, 2017 12:25 am

Thanks for the fast and informative responses, much appreciated!
MPM wrote:
MichaNL wrote:Has anyone experience with the TSDZ2 with CA3?
I'm not aware of anyone having used the TSDZ2 with the CA3 or any other controller. The TSDZ2 comes with a controller built in that is tightly integrated with a torque sensor and for me it is the combination of the two that makes the motor great. It also results in a clean build with fewer wires than most other retrofit kits. Maybe you could see how you like the standard set-up first. You can always try to make it work with your CA3 later.
MichaNL wrote:Can I also achieve at least 30Kmph with the standard 42T in combination with a nexus 8 22t and still have the assist from the TSDZ2?
Someone else recently posted a link to the most awesome gearing calculator I've seen:
http://www.gear-calculator.com/
For gearing you can select your nexus 8 ('Shimano Alf/Inter 8'), you select your 22t, 42T and the correct 20" tire. Pick to display 'Speed'. When I just pick a random 20" tire, it looks like at 90 cadence you can go up to 26 km/hr. Around that cadence,with a 36V battery, the TSDZ2 support will become less.
On the calculator slide the rear sprocket left until the top gear shows your desired 30km/hr. An 18t sprocket may work well.

Great tip! This certainly helped me figure out which chainring and sprocket I can fit.

mscoot
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » Jul 20, 2017 4:30 am

matte2k wrote: I've received my motor and the transformation of my Bullitt cargo bike has started.
First the motor bottom bracket part was too tight. Hade du sand a hole lot in my bb hole to get inte to fit.
Then when I finally got it in a bit. It seems that I need to trim it on a whole lot of more places than you had. At least 2 more.
Look att the attached images. At least 1mm (Probably 2 if I want to place some rubber in between the motor and frame). So know is the question if I dare to take all of the motor housing or if I should grind some in the aluminum frame as well???
Any ideas?
IMG_5713.jpg
IMG_5714.jpg
That seems odd. Perhaps Larry vs Harry beefed up the frames at some point? Mine is a 2010 frame.
The other thing I can think of is that you haven't reposition the gearing cable. Mine had to go on the overside of the BB.

I'd be wary of cutting into the thin part of the motor casings though. You don't want it cracking there. A little bit around the holes for the screws might be ok, though?

What about knocking a dent in the frame itself? Is it the frames' welds that are too thick or is it the tubing? If it's the tubing perhaps a small dent would do?

You know what? To me it looks like you could get away with two small, well placed dents on the underside of each chainstay?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » Jul 20, 2017 4:56 am

mscoot wrote:
matte2k wrote: I've received my motor and the transformation of my Bullitt cargo bike has started.
First the motor bottom bracket part was too tight. Hade du sand a hole lot in my bb hole to get inte to fit.
Then when I finally got it in a bit. It seems that I need to trim it on a whole lot of more places than you had. At least 2 more.
Look att the attached images. At least 1mm (Probably 2 if I want to place some rubber in between the motor and frame). So know is the question if I dare to take all of the motor housing or if I should grind some in the aluminum frame as well???
Any ideas?
The attachment IMG_5713.jpg is no longer available
The attachment IMG_5714.jpg is no longer available
All right, I found some of the photos I took when I installed this last year. These pictures are in no particular order.

The motor installed. Notice I have grounded off a part of the threads for the front mounting screw to clear that weld on the frame:
14375354_10154245398431077_419355446_o.jpg
14375354_10154245398431077_419355446_o.jpg (191.65 KiB) Viewed 231 times
To mount it, the left cover first needs to come off:
14423941_10154245397466077_656898857_o.jpg
(160.25 KiB) Downloaded 1 time

The gearing cable (normally under the BB, now rests on top of the BB. Motor isn't fully inserted here:
14375360_10154245397521077_558709198_o.jpg
14375360_10154245397521077_558709198_o.jpg (179.59 KiB) Viewed 231 times

The left hand motor casing. This is what I needed to take away to make it fit:
14359617_10154245397636077_2117285968_o.jpg
(185.51 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
On the right side of the motor casing I needed to take away this bit. (and then a tiny amount more right there in the middle)
14393378_10154245397801077_168811326_o.jpg
14393378_10154245397801077_168811326_o.jpg (229.56 KiB) Viewed 231 times
Another picture of it fitted:
14393379_10154245977466077_835738353_o.jpg
(140.77 KiB) Downloaded 1 time

Patoruzu
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Patoruzu » Jul 20, 2017 7:36 am

RTIII wrote:My version may be more clunky to use, but can be adapted to work for everyone:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1301788
Indeed. Your table is great and it allowed me to further expand it. I added a version to that thread that gives a choice for Imperial or Metric systems and rearranged some stuff for my needs.

Thanks to your table, I will be able to see now if my 4000rpm motor has the 90 (100?) pedal rpm upper limit.
RTIII wrote:
Patoruzu wrote: Maybe by tweaking the firmware (unknown land) you can turn off the assist limit speed.
Otherwise you can configure it up to 45km/h
Hmmm... I was able to turn off the limit completely just through the VLCD-5 display's setup screens. My unit was built in the first week of June, this year. Maybe you have an old one?
I just checked it again. With the XH18 I can only rotate through the 15-45 values. I haven't seen anywhere in the documentation (for either display) and option to disable it completely. How you do it in yours?
My motor is very new, though the display might have been an old 36v version. My 48v display version (+throttle+52T) left Shanghai today. Though I do not expect any changes on the firmware side.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jul 20, 2017 10:24 am

Patoruzu wrote:
RTIII wrote:My version may be more clunky to use, but can be adapted to work for everyone:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1301788
Indeed. Your table is great and it allowed me to further expand it. I added a version to that thread that gives a choice for Imperial or Metric systems and rearranged some stuff for my needs.
Great! Thanks! 8) You're the first person to actually acknowledge they've used it even though it's been viewed over 200 times! :?
Patoruzu wrote:Thanks to your table, I will be able to see now if my 4000rpm motor has the 90 (100?) pedal rpm upper limit.
If your motor comes with a sticker on the bottom saying 4000 RPM then my bet is the assist will still cut out right around 90 p-rpm for the simple reason that it's easier (& cheaper) to change the motor's RPM than it is to change to a new pair of reduction gears. Right now the reduction is around 44.44 : 1.
RTIII wrote:
Patoruzu wrote: Maybe by tweaking the firmware (unknown land) you can turn off the assist limit speed.
Otherwise you can configure it up to 45km/h
Hmmm... I was able to turn off the limit completely just through the VLCD-5 display's setup screens. My unit was built in the first week of June, this year. Maybe you have an old one?
Patoruzu wrote:I just checked it again. With the XH18 I can only rotate through the 15-45 values. I haven't seen anywhere in the documentation (for either display) and option to disable it completely. How you do it in yours?
My motor is very new, though the display might have been an old 36v version. My 48v display version (+throttle+52T) left Shanghai today. Though I do not expect any changes on the firmware side.
On my unit, I simply stepped through the setup screens and when it got to the speed limit setting, I hit +, as I recall, until it read 0, then moved on to the next setting screen. (Or, maybe I hit -, I'm not sure.) ... I guess I should go through the screens again and see if it stayed set at zero since I seem to "hit a brick wall" at around 24 to 25 MPH. However, others have suggested that 25 is right about a "magic number" regarding aerodynamic drag for bicyclists and that to go beyond it requires large amounts of power, hence, my "wall."
Last edited by RTIII on Jul 20, 2017 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jul 20, 2017 10:34 am

Patoruzu wrote: I just checked it again. With the XH18 I can only rotate through the 15-45 [speed limit, "SD"] values. I haven't seen anywhere in the documentation (for either display) and option to disable it completely. How you do it in yours?
My motor is very new, though the display might have been an old 36v version. My 48v display version (+throttle+52T) left Shanghai today. Though I do not expect any changes on the firmware side.
Three additional thoughts about this:

1) I had switched to mph by that point and all their literature talks about this being a km setting. Perhaps they realized that the places with mph don't have speed limit laws to worry about? ...I'm pretty sure I did get it to turn off the setting.

2) You can lie to the system by either taking off the magnet - it still works anyway, you just loose odometer and speed information - or by telling it your wheel diameter is something smaller than it is. If it thinks the wheel is only 20" instead of a real 27, for example, it will under-rate your speed since it takes more rotations to go the same distance...

3) Your version has a throttle, mine does not! Perhaps they want to prohibit a run-away situation or something? Note that I bought a throttle (new) through another source since my vendor wouldn't sell me one (??) and when I got it and tried it, it did not work! :evil:
Last edited by RTIII on Jul 20, 2017 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jammied » Jul 20, 2017 10:38 am

I'm seriously considering a tsdz2 for one of my trikes. One trike is a 26" Schwinn Meridian that is a single speed and currently has a 36v DD 850w front hub motor and acts more like a e-scooter than a e-bike while the other trike is a 26" Kent Monterey with a 7 speed shimano and a dillender 36v 350w geared hub and is quite clear that it has less power assist than the 850w DD on the Schwinn.
But the geared hub and trike gears allow for more pedaling but wont cruise good by itself when commuting. The Schwinn has a front chain ring that is 38t and a rear that is 21 the Kent has a front chain ring with 38t and in 3rd gear the rear is 22t.

How will the TSDZ2 compare to these setups as far as assist power? A throttle is a must for me just for some extra power when needed. Will the TSDZ2 work very well with a single speed? But I guess if I didn't like the way the tourqe sensor worked I could always just hook the motor wires from the TSDZ2 into my current controller? HMMM the TSDZ2 does have my attention just not sure if it will be better than the dillenger 350w geared hub? I really never liked the dillenger geared hub.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » Jul 20, 2017 10:42 am

RTIII wrote: With the XH18 I can only rotate through the 15-45 values. I haven't seen anywhere in the documentation (for either display) and option to disable it completely.
If you want ro disable the speed limit, just set "magnetic" at the end of the menu at 2 or 10 or whatever fits your needs.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jul 20, 2017 11:04 am

Jammied wrote:I'm seriously considering a tsdz2 for one of my trikes. One trike is a 26" Schwinn Meridian that is a single speed and currently has a 36v DD 850w front hub motor and acts more like a e-scooter than a e-bike while the other trike is a 26" Kent Monterey with a 7 speed shimano and a dillender 36v 350w geared hub and is quite clear that it has less power assist than the 850w DD on the Schwinn.
But the geared hub and trike gears allow for more pedaling but wont cruise good by itself when commuting. The Schwinn has a front chain ring that is 38t and a rear that is 21 the Kent has a front chain ring with 38t and in 3rd gear the rear is 22t.

How will the TSDZ2 compare to these setups as far as assist power? A throttle is a must for me just for some extra power when needed. Will the TSDZ2 work very well with a single speed? But I guess if I didn't like the way the tourqe sensor worked I could always just hook the motor wires from the TSDZ2 into my current controller? HMMM the TSDZ2 does have my attention just not sure if it will be better than the dillenger 350w geared hub? I really never liked the dillenger geared hub.
I don't know a lot about trikes, (amberwolf may reply if you're lucky!) but my perception is the TSDZ2 would work quite well in your situation and that no, you probably don't need a throttle, just up your power setting since it does exactly what you say you want out of a throttle - more power.

Do note, though, that whatever gear ratios you have / use will matter quite a lot. One of the great features of the TSDZ2 system is that it lets you use your bikes gears. Since the Schwinn has but one, I don't recommend that one. Rather, the Kent sounds like it can work well. If you convert it, it'll change to a 42T in front (unless you specifically alter it, which I don't recommend without really digging into the gear charts (see upthread only the last day or two at most) to be sure how it'll turn out before you do the work and spend the money. The only reason you may wish to have a lower chainring (fewer teeth) is if you're worried about pedaling without assistance and have hills or heavy loads like a trailer or something.

As we collectively caution upthread, too high a torque loading at low speed doesn't sit well with this unit (and likely not most other bottom-bracket units either) because the motor has to be turning at high speed to safely give you high torque. Since your third gear is a 21, like my bike, I'll guess your lowest is a 32 like mine as well, and if so know that I've never once needed a lower gear than 21 with a 52 chainring! With the stock 42T that comes with the TSDZ2, you should be quite happy. And if your highest rear gear is an 11, you'll be able to do 24 MPH, which would be awesome for a trike.

My perception is that even if you have hills / mountains to climb and / or heavy loads, you'll be happy with the TSDZ2 and will find it gets you going fast enough to meet commuting needs. Just try not to launch from a dead-stop in an up-hill situation with assistance. (I've been known to start down - or across - the hill, and once the speed got up, THEN go uphill just so I wouldn't be asking high torque at low RPM.)

Patoruzu
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Patoruzu » Jul 20, 2017 12:06 pm

Jammied wrote:I'm seriously considering a tsdz2 for one of my trikes.
[...]
How will the TSDZ2 compare to these setups as far as assist power? A throttle is a must for me just for some extra power when needed.
If you need more power you simply increase the assistance level. No need for throttle and messing up up with break power switches.

@RTIII
Mine came with a Y cable towards the front, one extreme for the display, the other (currently hanging), for a throttle (later found out). Since I am being shipped with a display replacement (for 48v) I asked my provider to drop a throttle and a 52T into the box, which do not cost much.

Regarding the speed limit, I only once reached 45 downhill, I do not really need it. But it would be nice to disable it without loosing other features. After the suggestions, if I really really want it, I would set the config to 2 magnets. The only but easy draw back would be the need to double in my mind the speed and the odometer. I will not :)

Thanks to your table I realized that my max speed@90rpm 42-11 was 47km/h. So I do not know if back then, downhill, I reached the speed limit or the rpm limit :-D
At 42-32 90rpm are reached at 15km/h. I do not think this upper limit, if I have it, will ever affect me :)

I updated your spreadsheet once more. Now everything changeable is in pull down menus.
Attachments
BicycleWheelGearChart_MultiUnitSystems.ods
Wheel/Gears/Speed Calculator
Metric & Imperial Systems
(19.56 KiB) Downloaded 36 times

Jammied
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jammied » Jul 20, 2017 3:17 pm

Thank's for the help.

After doing some research. I have the Shimano MF-TZ21 thread on free wheel and the is a 14-28 set of sprockets. The only other alternate gears are 13-28 and 14-34.

it would be nice if they offered a 13-34. I always pull a toddler buggy and a tool box. So if something electrical went wrong the super low 34t could come in handy.

But maybe a 14-34 with a 52t front chain ring would work also?

MPM
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by MPM » Jul 20, 2017 4:17 pm

RTIII wrote: That one awesome? Not for me; it won't do the calculations for my setup because the author hard-coded the entries and didn't include mine.
Patoruzu wrote: I updated your spreadsheet once more. Now everything changeable is in pull down menus.
Hey guys, thank you for your work on the gearing Excel/OpenOffice sheet! I'm not trying to stop you. Also, just to clarify, I have no personal interest in that on-line tool. I just think that this is another useful tool to help people with gearing, and shouldn't be discarded too easily.

So with that out of the way, what didn't work well for you in the on-line gearing calculator?

Not much is hard-coded there and it does derailleurs well too. I believe this link below matches the cassette and wheel circumference in RTIII's Excel sheet, with the TSDZ2 standard ring:
http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS ... 2.6&UN=MPH
It will also show the exact speed at each gear if you select 'Display: Speed'. You can slide the images of the gears left and right to adjust the tooth count of each sprocket, you can add more gears by dragging extra gears in from the left, and remove them by dragging them away.

Also, just as a bonus, a race :wink:! Just drag in another ring from the left, and voila: a setup with a second 52T ring which I believe RTIII has installed already. And then add ANOTHER setup, Patoruzu's, to compare. I made an assumption on which 9-speed cassette you have and assumed you'd install a 52T ring as you hoped, just like RTIII, plus the 40-622 tires you've been thinking of.
http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS ... 2&UF2=2220
Don't forget to click on 'Display: Speed' again. Conclusion: If your TSDZ2's go the same rpm, Patoruzu (at the bottom) will go slightly faster: 35.2 mph vs 34.2 mph :D. It's because of his larger diameter tires.

tinasdude
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tinasdude » Jul 20, 2017 10:49 pm

Jammied wrote:Thank's for the help.

After doing some research. I have the Shimano MF-TZ21 thread on free wheel and the is a 14-28 set of sprockets. The only other alternate gears are 13-28 and 14-34.
Look at the sunrace 13-34 megadrive
it would be nice if they offered a 13-34. I always pull a toddler buggy and a tool box. So if something electrical went wrong the super low 34t could come in handy.

But maybe a 14-34 with a 52t front chain ring would work also?

tinasdude
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tinasdude » Jul 20, 2017 10:53 pm

Sunrace13-34 megadrive

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