New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

forgot to mention, i wont be going crazy, power wise i will be looking at running it with a 55v battery @ 20-22amp peak.

i wont be going up any hills just flat ground, the area i live in doesn't really have any hills to climb
 
Animalector said:
Interesting. Tangentdave is developing a small controller to interface a torque sensor bottom bracket into a throttle control (I think).. you could use that to retain the torque control and have throttle as well.

Do you know for sure that a 6 FET Infineon will fit?

Andy

ah sounds good, but i'm happy to leave the torque sensor out on this 2nd controller :)

from the measurements i've taken the stock TSDZ2 controller is a little larger than the infineon controller board width and length.
the TSDZ controller is a 6 fet also but it seems to have a wider PCB board. i'm 95% sure i will be able to make it fit nicely.

i will be installing a motor temp sensor as well :)
 
@extrasilver

Which technical gains do you want over the stock controller in addition to higher V/A and temp sensor?

And are you sure you will stay stealth with the noisier metal gear?
 
Patoruzu said:
@extrasilver

Which technical gains do you want over the stock controller in addition to higher V/A and temp sensor?

And are you sure you will stay stealth with the noisier metal gear?

hi, in terms of gains, simply a throttle and additional power, mainly aiming for a higher top speed over anything else.


right now my 12kg track/SS bike with 700c x28 tyres at 100 & 110 psi consumes 6.44 watt hours per Km while cruising at 35Kph on flat level ground. i'd like to raise the speed further because at the moment when i'm cruising at my top speed of 35Kph the motor switches between very low power assist or off competently due the very little amount of torque i'm applying to the peddles at high cadence.. i'd like to have a throttle and to be running the motor at a higher voltage to reach a higher top speed
 
i purchased a throttle for the TSDZ2 system and i can confirm that it did not work :( i'm guessing its due to the firmware
 
I have no such problems, but maybe your cadence is higher than mine. But wouldn't that be solved with the supported throttle? Of course, having access to the torque settings would be better, but for that at the moment you need to buy 50 motors. But we could build a crowd of 50 ppl
:mrgreen:

Did you buy the motor with the throttle supported controller?
 
Patoruzu said:
I have no such problems, but maybe your cadence is higher than mine. But wouldn't that be solved with the supported throttle? Of course, having access to the torque settings would be better, but for that at the moment you need to buy 50 motors. But we could build a crowd of 50 ppl
:mrgreen:

Did you buy the motor with the throttle supported controller?


well hopefully by raising the voltage it will allow the system to have a higher cadence itself, but even so i don't want to look like a wolly peddling at 100+ RPM cruising down the street.. if i can get the system to run at a higher RPM along with a throttle i will be able to reach a higher top speed without having to peddle or peddling even faster :)
 
Patoruzu said:
Did you buy the motor with the throttle supported controller?

i didn't but it did have the port for a throttle and it was wired up so i thought, hmmmmmmmm maybe it will work... turns out it doesnt tho :( ow well, it was worth a shot anyway
 
[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV7BZI8zSWA [/youtube]
 
i also need to mention that im currently running the system at 44.5v @ 16 amps so a peak wattage of 712w

DC to DC boost converter to boost my 36v battery. voltage sag from the converter is minimal, maybe -2v for the first second
 
extrasilver said:
...t it did have the port for a throttle and it was wired up so i thought, hmmmmmmmm maybe it will work... turns out it doesnt tho :( ow well, it was worth a shot anyway
How does TS explain selling a plug in throttle that does not work?
You guys need to bang on their door and say "WTH. I want this throttle to work, over?"

You might like it with stock power, and not have to 'sacrifice' it for a few watts of more power.
What about a 52T chain ring if you only want more top speed. 54T? 56T?
 
Norton said:
extrasilver said:
...t it did have the port for a throttle and it was wired up so i thought, hmmmmmmmm maybe it will work... turns out it doesnt tho :( ow well, it was worth a shot anyway
How does TS explain selling a plug in throttle that does not work?
You guys need to bang on their door and say "WTH. I want this throttle to work, over?"

You might like it with stock power, and not have to 'sacrifice' it for a few watts of more power.
What about a 52T chain ring if you only want more top speed. 54T? 56T?

Hi Norton

i did purchase the non throttle, peddle assist only model but as the LCD screen does still have the plug for a throttle i thought i might just work with a little luck but turns out it has been deactivated from the factory.. i noticed somebody else had a same idea and outcome as me a few pages back.. so, if anybody in europe is interested in purchasing a throttle for there TSDZ2 system just let me know and you can buy mine :) its a hit or miss if it will work tho.. i'm definitely not sending it back to china anyway!

i have looked at getting a 52t chainring but due to the offset ( 9mm i believe ) im unable to do so :( unless anybody knows a way of fitting a 52t chain ring to it?

does anybody know if a BBS02 chain rings will fit? they seem that they will but i'm not sure
 
small updated

future-bikes have a faulty controller that i can purchase ( i offered to pay for it ) .. i will be using the metal housing of the controller to mount the other controller into + reusing the cables and connectors so it will be a plug and play swap between using controllers.

saves me buying a new controller from china and then simply ripping it apart..
 
Norton said:
eyebyesickle said:
.....I'm riding the line sharing this information now that I am providing support and working with the factory technicians/engineers of TS.
.... we are just days (and days and days and days, of course haha) away from having 52v18a units with the lights and all that jazz

... maybe you can't adjust the XXX with that clean little program... eh?
Man, this is great TS has someone in the USA, an English speaker, and someone with some tech knowledge, to assist with "THINGS" !! :D
Like what about the throttle that comes in some of the kits and is available separately ?

Please don't mess up... and encourage hacking.

I still don't understand the 'Home Hackers'. When a piece of electronic equipment is designed for 750 watts of power consumption,,,,
What do they think happens when you hack it to consume 1000 watts, or 1500 watts, or whatever??? Evv very ting will be all rrite ???

Even with the bone stock 48V 15A unit:
If we get the throttle to work,, and if you sit back and let this little mid-drive do all the work,,,
will it be just fine in this +100°F heat operating non-stop at 750 W,, for hours,, even if you keep it in its happy RPM range? (and I'm not even talking about the blue gear)

Somehow, I doubt it. Only clowns like us would run it like that. It needs TMS, like the big boy EV's have for the pack and the drive unit.
If the motor and/or power controller are getting close to letting the smoke out, it's time to throttle back on the current,,, with no hacky-hack override....

TS needs researchers like you Eyeby !!! Thank you for the work you do !!!

I am purchasing a complete custom built ebike from Eyebyesickle and IMHO, his communication, knowledge and prices are TOP NOTCH. If you need anything related to ebikes, you may want to give this guy a chance , he has impressed me and once I get my complete ebike from him, I will be doing a in depth review of it, with photos.
He provides the best of both worlds...low prices that you would get from overseas vendors, but he offers communications and warrantys that the overseas vendors cannot provide.
 
extrasilver said:
i have looked at getting a 52t chainring but due to the offset ( 9mm i believe ) im unable to do so :( unless anybody knows a way of fitting a 52t chain ring to it?

extrasilver said:
does anybody know if a BBS02 chain rings will fit? they seem that they will but i'm not sure
Yes, I know, and no, they won't fit because they have a 130BCD, I think. The TSDZ2 comes stock with a 110 BCD. There are other spiders, however.

As for fitting a 52T onto a stock TSDZ2, yes, I've done it. I documented it (and details) on two different ES threads - here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88943&start=25

And here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88711

On the first thread, you'll get to see the chainline of the stock TSDZ2 paired with the lowest, innermost gear in the back. On the second thread, you see the actual adapter being made. As I note in the text there, the notches in the adapter ring are for running THREE chainrings - if you only want to run two, you can skip the notches.
 
My 52t is arriving any day so I have not yet hands on experience. But the Chinese told me that it will fit the motor and that I would be able to use both (42t+52t) simultaneously without any adapter (though I am leaning towards ditching the 42t and the front derailleur and upgrade my 9 cassette to 11 @ 11-50). This of course, ignoring the chainline. That I can only evaluate after delivery
 
Patoruzu said:
My 52t is arriving any day so I have not yet hands on experience. But the Chinese told me that it will fit the motor and that I would be able to use both (42t+52t) simultaneously without any adapter (though I am leaning towards ditching the 42t and the front derailleur and upgrade my cassette)

I highly doubt that they are correct since when I put a STEEL (very thin) 52T in between the 42T and the spider, the 42T rubbed the motor housing so bad that it would not work at all. That gear is only 3mm thick. That's why I made the adapter. ... IF they "fixed" this - Tongsheng, I mean - (which could easily be done by machining the spider a little more on one face) it would have the effect of moving the 42T outboard when run WITHOUT another gear, and I think it's unlikely they'd do that because the chainline is already so far outboard that it causes some people trouble.

However, maybe they did this. Perhaps when run without a second gear, they supply a spacer to move the 42T inboard ... could work. Please report!

Oh, wait, there is ONE other way it could be mounted, both at the same time without an adapter: one on either side of the spider. However, that would have two major problems: 1) there's no derailleur that could get to the outer gear and 2) it would make such a huge gap between the gears that even if you had a derailleur that could go that far, it wouldn't work because the chain would fall in between...
 
I asked twice and they insisted.
My 11-50 cassette should also arrive tomorrow and I have already removed the front derailleur (which was able to push the chain further outwards). But I will leave the 42t+52t simultaneously without derailleur if all gears work under 52t smoothly. Otherwise will move the 52t inwards and ditch the 42t. Will report.
 
I just installed a 48V kit on my MTB and got a non-throttle version. Works fantastically.

I wanted to test if mine responds to a throttle input before I purchase one.

Anyone with a throttle measure if it is just a potentiometer?

I see ~4V on one outside pin, ~4V on the next one in, and What I assume is ground on the other end (at the VLCD 3-pin connection)

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
i contacted the vendor today on Ali express directly

they sell chain rings! :)

34T 36T 38T 44T 48T 52T

i've been quoted $20 for the 52t. i will be ordering a 52 & 48t on friday

my bike is a single speed by the way.. if your looking at having multiple gears up front i don't think its as simple as bolting them on

update: found out that www.future-bike.it[url] also sell chain rings
 
Guys be a little careful with what drive train you choose with the standard front gear. As much as I knocked the steel standard supplied front ring, its actually not bad and leaps ahead in quality compared to the Bafung units which are terrible in every sense.

The problem is the gear is set up for an 8 speed chain which is slightly thicker in width than the later 10 and 11 speed chains, using it with any 9 - 11 speed chains you will get chain suck and derailment when there's little or no torque on the chain. Typically free wheeling and then turning the peddles slowly will allow the chain to " suck " into the gear and then will derail as you begin to power on. Typically for me on off road routes, its always just as you come down a downhill section and then want to power into the next climb.

There's real advantages in using an 8 speed chain anyway, as due to its width its actually a bit stronger and will last longer as the load is spread over a wider width pin. Best setup I've seen is about 2 pages back where the guy has taken a Sunrace unit and used the 11spd spacers from his own 11speed cassette. This allows you to use all the existing gear change setup and brings those larger gears into a much better alignment.
 
extrasilver said:
i contacted the vendor today on Ali express directly
they sell chain rings! :) 34T 36T 38T 44T 48T 52T
i've been quoted $20 for the 52t.

By "the vendor", do you mean Tongsheng?

And, are these all offset like the 42T that comes with the standard package? I presume so!

extrasilver said:
i will be ordering a 52 & 48t on friday

There's not a lot of difference there. I'm running both the stock 42T and 52T and, given my rear gears, I hardly need the two. Even with the steepest hills I've had to do so far, the 52T with 28T has been low enough, and 52T with 13T (it won't stay in the 11 - going to try and change the chain out today) gets me up to over 25MPH....

extrasilver said:
my bike is a single speed by the way.. if your looking at having multiple gears up front i don't think its as simple as bolting them on

Indeed it's not. I've put up two ES threads to discuss that... Again, the issue is that in trying to keep the best chainline possible, the standard gear that comes with the TSDZ2 is a custom gear that moves the chainline as far inboard as possible/ If you try and mount a second chain between it and the spider (exactly where a second gear would go), it moves the first one inboard too much and it rubs - just doesn't work. Hence, my adapter, which was easy to make, BTW. Find it being made here, with directions:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88711
 
Just a quick update: Itried a new Shimano chain on my TSDZ2 powered 1982 Raleigh replica, and it cured the 11T from hopping / skipping! 8) So now I get all 14 gears, from 42T / 52T in front and 28 / 11T in the rear.

I am so delighted!

MY THEORY, supported by the math, is that with the formerly highest gear, a 13T, my cadence speed at 25 MPH was right at the upper limit of the TSDZ2, which is why I had trouble piercing beyond that speed. However, now with the 11T in action, I should be able to get it up to about 29 MPH before reaching that same cadence limit.

Hmmm... If I can get to 29 MPH, I'll be debating with myself if I want to try a 54T! :lol: :lol: I'm well aware of the "speed power law" - once you get to aerodynamic drag having a noticeable effect, to double the speed you have to quadruple the power, so I'm not expecting lightening speeds ... but the speed of sound would be nice! :D
 
The bike I am building has a full chain guard. Is there any reason I shouldn't remove the tsdz2 bashguard? The bike has a shimano 7sp igh.
 
Grizzly said:
The bike I am building has a full chain guard. Is there any reason I shouldn't remove the tsdz2 bashguard? The bike has a shimano 7sp igh.

Bashguard? ... Never heard of one except on the ones the Italians offer (see posts about two pages up-thread or so). The standard TSDZ2 doesn't have such a thing - or, at least, MINE didn't come with such a thing!

Care to describe what it is you want to not use? ... PROBABLY you can disregard it depending on your use scenario!
 
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